Dave Pogson – Atonement – Class 2

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Brothers and sisters, young
people and friends, once again

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we have the opportunity to
consider the Word of God.

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As I said before, Brother David
Pogson is leading his second

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study on the atonement and he’s
asked as an introduction, we we

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take a reading from Genesis
chapter 3.

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Now be pleased to invite Brother
David to speak to us on the

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atonement for second study.
Could we bring up this way a bit

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just so I can turn it over?
Thank you.

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Just got to get all the
technicals right.

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I dropped this on the ground.
I hope it’s still all right.

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It’s a great idea.
When you’re deaf, you can’t tell

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whether you’re speaking loud or
soft.

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We’ve got these engineers up.
It doesn’t matter how I set to

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speak.
It comes across OK, but boy,

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they’re working hard.
Look at them.

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Wow, OK, not closing them.
OK, OK.

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It’s a.
Bit warmer tonight.

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Bit warmer.
It’s a battle for me and it’s a

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battle for you, all right?
OK, so in our studies on the

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atonement and the word atonement
is essentially an Old Testament

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words, not a New Testament word,
OK.

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The word atonement itself ranges
in many, but basically means the

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steps that lead up to divine
acceptance.

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OK.
Sometimes the time that’s used

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to mean forgiveness.
Sometimes it’s it’s used for

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something completely different
to that, but as a general rule,

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the word atonement, right, which
in the in the Hebrew came.

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From Cape, which means to cover,
OK, but there are many words in

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the Old Testament which means
cover.

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It’s one of them, OK.
And primarily you’ve probably

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read it in the Concordance.
The primary first use offered

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his pitch from now a pitch to
the ark.

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Most of you had heard of that
and now that’s also used to the

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can’t remember it now, but of a
a plant they use for dying.

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OK, so that’s it’s two physical
uses.

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So, so, so the idea is it’s a
but in, in, in practice, it

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represents any step or all the
steps that is necessary for

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sinful man to go through so that
he can approach under God.

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OK, so it doesn’t mean
forgiveness, even though

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sometimes it does mean
forgiveness.

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Sometimes it can be looking at
the result.

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Sometimes it can just mean
acceptance.

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OK, so so like Jesus Christ
didn’t have to be forgiven

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anything, right, But to be saved
out of being mortal, to be saved

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out of his temptation, to be
saved out of death, he had to go

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through certain processes,
certain steps, and those steps

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are tenant steps.
OK, so get that very clear in

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your mind if.
Because there’s a misconception,

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there’s brethren walking around,
some are saying.

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That Christ didn’t have to
obtain for his nature.

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Some said, say he did have to
attain for their nature and and

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and they’re not defining their
terms, OK.

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They could be right, they could
be wrong.

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That’s how they understand it.
What makes a difference?

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OK, so we’re looking for keys,
OK, Keys.

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And one of the great keys is
that is the concept of families.

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OK, God’s a father and he’s
having a family and he’s got us

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into families.
And that’s a great key of the

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atonement.
I can’t.

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I don’t think you can fully
understand the.

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Principles of the atonement
without understanding that God

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works on family principles.
OK, I mean, you just look at

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Christ was one of us.
And he’s, we belong to his

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family.
We belong to the divine family.

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Behold, I and the children God
have given me.

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Now in family life, if one
member of the family gets into

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trouble, it could affect the
whole family.

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If one member of the family gets
a great blessing, a new job or

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something like that, the whole
family gets a benefit.

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Or, or if one comes top on the
site in mathematics, it’s an

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honor of the whole family.
You know, there’s a sharing in

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family life.
There’s a sharing of the the

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disabilities on the one hand and
the benefits on the other, the

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sufferings and the glory.
OK, you’re going to share a

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glory that really only belongs
to God and Jesus Christ, but

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you’ve got to be in the family,
but you’ve got to share the

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suffering that goes with it.
That’s a family concept and

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it’ll just help you understand
the atonement if you use that

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key, a family language, of
course, that’s what the Bible

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talks about.
God is, as we pointed out in

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Hebrews, He’s bringing many sons
under.

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Glory.
Sons, it’s the family thing, the

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glory.
And he’s made our chief leader.

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And that was a key idea.
He’s a chief leader.

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He made him, made him one of us
and our captain.

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And that’s a family thing.
But that idea of captain is a

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key and understanding.
He’s a chief leader, OK.

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And of course, he was born and
married, begotten of God, and he

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came down into our world, into
our situation, and he had the

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lead believers to salvation.
And there’s this big gap here.

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And as we pointed out, the big
gap, of course, is temptation

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and mortality itself.
OK, there, that’s the gap.

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But no one apart from him was
able to build a bridge across.

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So our captain is a captain
because he’s more able,

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hopefully in this case, because
he is more able, all right?

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And because he’s more able, even
though we’re called all of him,

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we expect him to do things as
well as what we can do.

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We expect him to do things
beyond that with God’s help.

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None of this can be done without
God.

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God’s behind everything to do
things that we can’t do, OK?

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And there’s many things in
salvation we can’t do, all

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right.
We couldn’t bring, as it says in

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Romans chapter 10, faith doesn’t
say I can earn this.

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Faith says who’s going to bring
Christ down from above?

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He’s going to bring him up from
the deep.

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Salva.
That’s absolutely essential

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salva.
We can’t think about it, OK?

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Christ couldn’t bring himself
from the dead, even though he

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had this authority to lay down
his life and to take it again.

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It says God raised him and he
couldn’t raise himself from the

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dead.
And, and none of this anyway can

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be achieved without holding
God’s hand.

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There’s just no way.
Out of that, yeah.

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So that Captain idea is a key
idea.

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OK.
And Christ is never considered

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for the purpose of salvation on
his own.

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You can’t isolate Christ and
say, well, if he didn’t have to

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save anybody else, what would
God require of him?

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That’s completely out of order,
you know, and and and they quote

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from Hebrews that he has that he
too had to this he did once

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offer for his own sins and for
the people.

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This he did once OK, But when
you go back to offer free zone

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seems it’s taken of of of our
readings yesterday and today,

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OK, in Exodus 2728 and beautiful
readings and and later on

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Leviticus.
Well, I’m thinking of

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particularly, OK, where Aaron
had to offer first, but in the

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first occurrence where ever
where that occurs, this

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requirement he had to offer for
himself and his family, then for

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the nation.
And then that gets that gets

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shortened in later verses and in
later chapters to offer for

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himself, but it always means for
himself and his family, then for

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the nation.
So there’s no situation in

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Scripture where Christ just
simply offers for himself.

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He offers right as a represented
man, representing the whole

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redeemed us and himself.
And that’s the only way you’ll

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understand it.
We don’t know what God would

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require.
We haven’t got a clue.

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We get all these theories about
it and it’s all right to have an

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opinion about it, providing
you’re not feeding some wrong

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idea on the atonement.
But we don’t really know.

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We don’t know, as we read in the
last occasion.

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Brother Carter says we may
reverently say he wouldn’t have

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to went through what he went
through the way he went through

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it, except because of our
situation, OK?

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We talked, then we went.
We go to Genesis chapter 1,

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verses 26 and 27.
Man made an image and likeness

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of God.
Is it?

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We’re at Genesis.
Chapter 126.

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Chapter 126 And Elohim said, Let
us make man in our image and

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after our likeness, and let him
have dominion.

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Verse 20 Right And Elohim
blessed them, and God said unto

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them, Be fruitful, and multiply,
and replenish the earth, and

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subdue it, and have dominion.
So we considered on the last

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occasion.
What this image and likeness of

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God was, OK.
And we looked at the mind and we

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looked at consciousness and, and
here’s its clock rate and so on.

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And we broke up the mental and
moral areas, OK, into these

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sections here, moral faculties,
lust, emotions and memory, OK.

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And we listed a few of the
things that come under those

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headings.
All right.

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Although you might disagree,
some you reckon might be over

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here.
Not that doesn’t matter really,

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OK, The the the whole point is
that it was made in the image

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and likeness of God in that he
had a bundle of potentials here

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that other animals didn’t have
and he was an animal animal

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nature, the earth earthy, OK, a
natural body, OK, but the other

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the animals didn’t have these
divine capabilities.

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Now, capabilities are not
virtue.

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They’re only virtue if you
develop them and use them, OK,

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That’s when they become a virtue
and without.

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And that the mind is so complex.
We discussed at length on the

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last occasion the sign that the
mind is so complex.

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It would require God to actually
educate this mind to get the

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result out of here that’s
required.

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OK.
And we quoted how Solomon said

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only God knows the mind.
He’s the only one that’s just

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too complex.
He created it.

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He knows what we he gives it to
us all right, and he educates

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us.
And we emphasize the great power

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of education.
Now it’s more important having

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the physical power of the Holy
Spirit.

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It would be handy, but many men
had it and they didn’t have a

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spiritual mind by bail.
OK, you can’t.

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You can’t receive anything more
awesome and wonderful than God’s

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own thinking communicated to you
through the education.

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Of the word.
And the education of the

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experiences of life.
You just can’t get anything more

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awesome than that.
There’s no feeling.

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You don’t actually feel it.
It’s education times, the the

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aura written that stirs you up
and you get awful zealous about.

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That’s great, OK?
The emotions can get stirred in

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a good way, OK.
And we can go through all that

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again the other day and go
through all that again.

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Now, everyone’s got these in
varying degrees.

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Everybody out there, you’re
here, OK?

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But unless these are reigning
over the rest, the process of

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thought is actually called the
carnal mind.

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People out there may be using
all this, but these have been

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oriented by the culture in which
they live or their religion or

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their lack of it or whatever,
whatever.

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So they they develop their own
values in their moral faculties.

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They’ve got moral faculties, OK.
And you know that from

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experience, OK.
And President, what’s the

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president?
You know this bushy.

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Yeah, Bushy.
That’s right, he.

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He warned the American people,
he warned the American people

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that their personal values must
rise higher than their culture.

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In other words, he’s saying all
the media are getting across and

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all TV gets across you is unreal
and it’s immoral.

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OK, we’re going to learn family
values, OK, And we’re going to

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live orally upright life.
Don’t live like what you see on

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entertainment That that that no
so everything beyond that really

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constitutes even though they’ve
got these moral faculties, it is

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constitutes the carnal mind and
because these aren’t oriented

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properly, OK.
What takes over is these areas

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here.
OK, the lust, the flesh, the eye

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00:15:07,080 –> 00:15:10,920
and the pride of life.
That’s what takes over and what

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00:15:11,040 –> 00:15:15,840
rules is here.
This is where the crown is OK in

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00:15:15,840 –> 00:15:20,720
people in that.
Situation and to us to we hope a

220
00:15:20,720 –> 00:15:25,360
lot lesser degree.
So that leads us on to.

221
00:15:27,880 –> 00:15:29,000
The the next.
Chart.

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00:15:29,000 –> 00:15:31,160
So here’s where we’re up to now.
OK.

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00:15:31,720 –> 00:15:34,880
And we’re looking at the serpent
and we’re looking at Genesis

224
00:15:34,880 –> 00:15:38,080
chapter 3.
And anything I say now, as far

225
00:15:38,080 –> 00:15:41,680
as I’m aware, you’ll find it all
in the first third of Elpis

226
00:15:41,680 –> 00:15:45,840
Israel.
OK, no greater writing on the

227
00:15:45,840 –> 00:15:49,320
atonement than the first third
of Elpis Israel.

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00:15:49,560 –> 00:15:54,080
None of our other writings goes
through the fall of man in

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00:15:54,080 –> 00:15:58,920
detail, the effect on his mind,
his body, and the effect that it

230
00:15:58,920 –> 00:16:02,440
had upon the consequent world.
That’s he calls it the

231
00:16:02,480 –> 00:16:04,240
development of the foundation of
all.

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00:16:04,560 –> 00:16:09,120
Nowhere else and any of our
writings that extent have we an

233
00:16:09,120 –> 00:16:12,840
exposition that even comes near
that we don’t have to agree with

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00:16:12,840 –> 00:16:17,600
every fine data, OK, but the
feel of it and the general

235
00:16:17,600 –> 00:16:21,520
thrust of it is right.
And I can remember reading it,

236
00:16:21,520 –> 00:16:25,760
as, you know, I think I was 16
years old and barely got an

237
00:16:25,760 –> 00:16:29,560
education, and I couldn’t
understand all the big words.

238
00:16:29,560 –> 00:16:32,080
But I didn’t have a parent.
But I didn’t have a father.

239
00:16:32,440 –> 00:16:36,160
I didn’t know what grown up was
all about, you know, And I

240
00:16:36,160 –> 00:16:38,520
couldn’t understand.
Here I was 15 and 16.

241
00:16:38,520 –> 00:16:39,960
I didn’t know what made me
chick.

242
00:16:40,720 –> 00:16:44,000
Now I read up as Israel that put
me 20 years ahead of myself.

243
00:16:44,920 –> 00:16:50,760
I read that first third, and I
probably missed 50% of it.

244
00:16:51,120 –> 00:16:54,480
But out of that 50%, I
understood now what made me

245
00:16:54,480 –> 00:16:58,800
chick, why I was the monster I
was and and what I had to do

246
00:16:58,800 –> 00:17:02,080
about it.
It’ll put you 20 years ahead of

247
00:17:02,080 –> 00:17:05,760
yourself, OK, That first third
of Albert Israel.

248
00:17:06,240 –> 00:17:09,680
And you can talk to young people
and you can talk to brethren.

249
00:17:10,040 –> 00:17:13,560
And in their discussion you can
know whether they’ve read it or

250
00:17:13,560 –> 00:17:18,920
not.
OK, let’s stick to the subject.

251
00:17:18,920 –> 00:17:27,640
So a young fella came over from
Williston during the week and he

252
00:17:27,640 –> 00:17:33,040
would just to start off his
preparation for baptism is and I

253
00:17:33,040 –> 00:17:35,480
thought I better practice what I
have preached.

254
00:17:35,480 –> 00:17:39,800
I said last time we we’ve got to
make more on this in public.

255
00:17:39,800 –> 00:17:41,120
Lectures.
It’s got to be simple.

256
00:17:41,120 –> 00:17:43,800
It’s just got to be a union, a
man, mortal and God

257
00:17:43,800 –> 00:17:45,520
manifestation.
Remember I said that?

258
00:17:45,800 –> 00:17:49,080
I thought, well, I better do
that before we always take them

259
00:17:49,080 –> 00:17:51,320
through the statement of faith
for baptism.

260
00:17:51,800 –> 00:17:56,120
I thought we’ll get straight
into Claus troll and start

261
00:17:56,120 –> 00:17:58,280
there.
Then we can go to the founder.

262
00:17:58,560 –> 00:18:02,120
So we went into that and and
anyway, he’s looking at this.

263
00:18:02,120 –> 00:18:06,200
He he and and we hadn’t turned
over to this next student.

264
00:18:06,200 –> 00:18:09,160
We never got to there.
We stuck there most here most of

265
00:18:09,160 –> 00:18:11,680
the time.
And that one, the chart where

266
00:18:11,680 –> 00:18:13,040
Christ Chris died.
OK.

267
00:18:13,640 –> 00:18:17,720
And I’m always telling these
little stories, but he looked

268
00:18:17,720 –> 00:18:20,440
down those and he said, yeah,
the animals haven’t got it, he

269
00:18:20,440 –> 00:18:21,920
said.
He said I’d.

270
00:18:21,920 –> 00:18:24,480
Take our dog for a walk every
evening.

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00:18:25,000 –> 00:18:26,760
Here I am.
I’m taking this dog.

272
00:18:26,760 –> 00:18:29,720
He’s locked up in the yard all
day, and I take him out for a

273
00:18:29,720 –> 00:18:32,360
walk in the evening.
She’s showing me gratitude.

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00:18:32,600 –> 00:18:34,400
No way.
He won’t do a thing, I said.

275
00:18:36,280 –> 00:18:39,200
So he got that message.
The animals haven’t got moral

276
00:18:39,200 –> 00:18:41,200
fashion.
If they have, they’re to no

277
00:18:41,200 –> 00:18:49,000
extent.
OK, So here’s the serpent.

278
00:18:49,320 –> 00:18:53,280
And this is Help us Israel.
He’s got lust, he’s got plenty

279
00:18:53,280 –> 00:18:56,320
of reasons, he’s got memory,
he’s got pair of speech, he’s

280
00:18:56,320 –> 00:19:00,800
got all that.
He hasn’t got any moral

281
00:19:00,800 –> 00:19:03,440
faculties.
OK.

282
00:19:03,640 –> 00:19:06,960
And that is the carnal word.
Carl just means flesh.

283
00:19:07,640 –> 00:19:11,200
That’s the fleshly mind there.
OK.

284
00:19:12,200 –> 00:19:19,040
And that’s what Adam and Eve, of
course, we’re tempted with now,

285
00:19:19,600 –> 00:19:23,560
I read.
Just then from Genesis 126 and

286
00:19:23,560 –> 00:19:27,800
28, and they were commanded to
replenish those, but they were

287
00:19:27,800 –> 00:19:32,640
commanded to have dominion over
the beast to feel for.

288
00:19:33,520 –> 00:19:35,760
And after they’ve been around a
little while, they must have had

289
00:19:35,760 –> 00:19:38,160
a good look at themselves and
said we’re an animal and, and

290
00:19:38,160 –> 00:19:42,920
the message is they should have
dominion over themselves as well

291
00:19:43,480 –> 00:19:46,760
as creation.
Because they were animal, I knew

292
00:19:46,840 –> 00:19:49,840
a good part of them was animal.
I knew they were also in the

293
00:19:49,840 –> 00:19:53,400
image of likeness and they they
must have got that message.

294
00:19:53,400 –> 00:19:57,080
They should have had dominion of
the animal that’s in themselves,

295
00:19:57,400 –> 00:20:01,760
even though that animal at that
stage was in a very good state.

296
00:20:02,120 –> 00:20:04,680
Don’t you go to sleep?
Child, you just closed your

297
00:20:04,680 –> 00:20:08,400
eyes, OK?
All right, he said.

298
00:20:08,400 –> 00:20:10,200
I’ve been through this that many
times.

299
00:20:10,560 –> 00:20:24,120
OK, so we’ve just read in the
account, OK, and it was to have

300
00:20:24,120 –> 00:20:34,270
Dominion OK in Genesis chapter.
Three.

301
00:20:35,430 –> 00:20:40,430
All right.
And we know the story, OK, but

302
00:20:40,430 –> 00:20:43,550
there is some ideas around that
I think are basic.

303
00:20:43,550 –> 00:20:46,150
The atonement.
They’re even in our Sunday

304
00:20:46,150 –> 00:20:49,960
school notes and I don’t think
they should be there about this

305
00:20:49,960 –> 00:20:55,640
particular incident.
And I, if I earn, I earn good

306
00:20:55,640 –> 00:20:57,720
company.
What I’m saying straight from

307
00:20:57,720 –> 00:21:00,720
helpless Israel.
OK, but we’ll come to that in a

308
00:21:00,720 –> 00:21:05,320
moment.
So God’s developing those moral

309
00:21:05,320 –> 00:21:09,200
faculties back and he’s given
them a law.

310
00:21:09,760 –> 00:21:13,200
OK.
And God’s educating them and

311
00:21:13,200 –> 00:21:18,320
he’s giving them a law, and
that’s the setting up a

312
00:21:18,320 –> 00:21:21,200
situation of trial.
OK.

313
00:21:21,720 –> 00:21:24,120
And trial is absolutely
essential.

314
00:21:24,760 –> 00:21:27,400
How can you develop loyally
without trial?

315
00:21:28,560 –> 00:21:31,920
How could you develop patience?
It’s not there without trial.

316
00:21:32,560 –> 00:21:35,160
How could you develop duty
without trial?

317
00:21:36,840 –> 00:21:39,880
You know, one of the greatest
characteristics, moral

318
00:21:39,880 –> 00:21:41,680
characteristics of God is
patience.

319
00:21:42,080 –> 00:21:45,600
How can you do that if
anything’s rose in the Garden of

320
00:21:45,600 –> 00:21:48,520
Eden and there’s just absolutely
no test whatsoever?

321
00:21:48,920 –> 00:21:52,120
Yeah, there’s just a lack of
opportunity to develop those

322
00:21:52,120 –> 00:21:54,600
moral faculties.
Oh, they might be there and you

323
00:21:54,600 –> 00:21:59,320
might get a little bit of them,
but God wants them tuned up to

324
00:21:59,320 –> 00:22:05,160
be his moral faculties.
OK.

325
00:22:05,920 –> 00:22:09,160
God’s not just developing A
subspecies.

326
00:22:09,440 –> 00:22:14,520
Be holy, for I am holy.
God’s developing His own moral

327
00:22:14,920 –> 00:22:17,840
values in His children.
That’s a family thing you do

328
00:22:17,840 –> 00:22:20,520
with your kids.
It’s hates in the physical.

329
00:22:20,760 –> 00:22:23,720
Soon as they start growing a
bit, you start communicating to

330
00:22:23,720 –> 00:22:26,040
them what’s.
Fair and what’s You go through

331
00:22:26,040 –> 00:22:28,680
the law stage of what’s fair and
then you’ve got to teach the

332
00:22:28,680 –> 00:22:31,520
other ones.
To put up with the littlings for

333
00:22:31,520 –> 00:22:34,600
a while because they’re not.
So, you know, and then when the

334
00:22:34,760 –> 00:22:38,160
the little bloke stamps on the
the older ones model aeroplane,

335
00:22:38,920 –> 00:22:42,840
you know, you’ve got to teach
them to be a little bit gracious

336
00:22:42,840 –> 00:22:45,280
about those things.
You know, the everything can’t

337
00:22:45,280 –> 00:22:48,720
be strict equity, OK.
And you learn that family

338
00:22:48,720 –> 00:22:50,160
principles, we did that
ourselves.

339
00:22:50,160 –> 00:22:52,840
Well, God’s doing that.
I don’t think it’s a marvellous

340
00:22:52,840 –> 00:22:55,840
in its detail, but it’s nothing
strange.

341
00:22:56,240 –> 00:23:00,560
And therefore they had to have
this law and it carried the

342
00:23:00,560 –> 00:23:03,840
death sentence, of course, all
right.

343
00:23:03,840 –> 00:23:07,960
It carried that death sentence
and and, and that indicated

344
00:23:07,960 –> 00:23:10,480
straight away that they were
given life.

345
00:23:10,480 –> 00:23:16,160
And to have life all right is a
great privilege, and Romans

346
00:23:16,160 –> 00:23:21,640
Chapter 9 tells us that just
being given life does not give

347
00:23:21,640 –> 00:23:24,720
us a title to eternal.
Life.

348
00:23:25,480 –> 00:23:27,640
Nor does it even give us a
title.

349
00:23:28,200 –> 00:23:33,240
To have a chance for eternal
life, that’s challenging.

350
00:23:34,760 –> 00:23:39,000
That’s challenging.
All right, A kangaroo didn’t ask

351
00:23:39,000 –> 00:23:41,960
to be born a kangaroo, and he
gets no chance to eternal life,

352
00:23:41,960 –> 00:23:46,040
and he’s got life.
So just being born doesn’t give

353
00:23:46,040 –> 00:23:48,880
you the title to have the chance
for eternal life.

354
00:23:50,120 –> 00:23:53,160
OK.
And eternal life is just not

355
00:23:53,160 –> 00:23:56,240
eternal life.
It’s sharing God’s own

356
00:23:56,240 –> 00:24:01,040
immortality.
OK, it’s an awesome thing.

357
00:24:03,120 –> 00:24:06,040
And that’s a human
preconception.

358
00:24:06,040 –> 00:24:07,440
We’ve got to get out of our
mind.

359
00:24:08,680 –> 00:24:10,480
Why does this happen to me?
Yeah.

360
00:24:10,720 –> 00:24:13,760
Why these other people’s got the
people got this chance.

361
00:24:14,160 –> 00:24:16,880
But Romans Chapter 9 says, well,
we’re going to argue about

362
00:24:17,080 –> 00:24:20,600
rights, He says.
Romans Chapter 9 says if you’re

363
00:24:20,600 –> 00:24:23,120
going to argue about rights, you
can forget it.

364
00:24:23,800 –> 00:24:26,320
God will have mercy on whom
he’ll have mercy on whom he

365
00:24:26,320 –> 00:24:30,440
hardeneth, he harness.
Oh, is there a shall we find

366
00:24:30,440 –> 00:24:32,800
unrighteousness with God?
That’s unfair.

367
00:24:33,360 –> 00:24:37,080
Yeah.
Jacob, have I called and he saw

368
00:24:37,120 –> 00:24:39,600
have I hate and love and he saw
have I hate it.

369
00:24:39,760 –> 00:24:41,600
That’s unfair.
It looks unfair.

370
00:24:42,320 –> 00:24:49,040
OK, But it carefully says God
takes out of the one lump the

371
00:24:49,040 –> 00:24:53,800
clay.
The whole lump is not entitled

372
00:24:54,040 –> 00:25:00,600
to anything but what their clay
gives them privilege to.

373
00:25:01,360 –> 00:25:05,920
In other words, just because
you’ve been given life does not

374
00:25:05,920 –> 00:25:08,920
give you a right to a chance to
eternal life.

375
00:25:08,920 –> 00:25:12,760
That’s we’re talking about
equity now we’re not talking

376
00:25:12,760 –> 00:25:15,880
family.
We’re talking about anti Judaism

377
00:25:15,880 –> 00:25:19,240
where you earn.
Eternal life can’t be earned.

378
00:25:19,280 –> 00:25:23,800
You can’t earn a part of God’s
own eternal nature.

379
00:25:24,280 –> 00:25:27,480
You have to be tried forever to
earn forever.

380
00:25:27,520 –> 00:25:32,240
And that’s ridiculous, OK?
Hence their very existence as a

381
00:25:32,240 –> 00:25:36,280
matter of grace and God’s
saying, like your life, it’s the

382
00:25:36,280 –> 00:25:40,320
law, here’s my will.
I’ve given you a life for my

383
00:25:40,320 –> 00:25:43,360
purpose.
You go against that and you’ll

384
00:25:43,360 –> 00:25:49,480
lose your law.
Some people have problems with

385
00:25:49,480 –> 00:25:53,320
that that Paul, Adam and Eve
were condemned to death because

386
00:25:53,320 –> 00:25:55,760
they knocked off a a piece of.
Fruit or something.

387
00:25:56,040 –> 00:25:59,000
OK, but they don’t see the
principles involved.

388
00:25:59,840 –> 00:26:05,080
OK, so trial comes and the
trial?

389
00:26:05,080 –> 00:26:09,920
Comes in the in an external form
comes in the an external form.

390
00:26:10,120 –> 00:26:17,640
OK, they they had it’s an
external trial and why it’s an

391
00:26:17,640 –> 00:26:21,000
external trial because even
though they had the lust of

392
00:26:21,000 –> 00:26:22,880
that’s the eye and the pride of
life.

393
00:26:23,800 –> 00:26:28,680
Now they weren’t so sufficiently
strong that of themselves they

394
00:26:28,680 –> 00:26:32,760
would suggest transgression.
All right, they had.

395
00:26:32,760 –> 00:26:36,000
You got to, as we’ve said in the
last occasion, you got to have

396
00:26:36,000 –> 00:26:37,480
enough.
Pride to do your hair.

397
00:26:37,960 –> 00:26:39,840
He’s got his hair cut and done
tonight.

398
00:26:39,840 –> 00:26:42,120
So that’s all right.
You got to have enough pride to

399
00:26:42,120 –> 00:26:44,480
Polish your boots, keep yourself
clean and so on.

400
00:26:44,640 –> 00:26:48,800
OK, Stop hiding there.
He’s hiding under his hands now

401
00:26:49,280 –> 00:26:53,200
and and you know, there’s
nothing wrong with the lust of

402
00:26:53,200 –> 00:26:55,400
first in the eye and the problem
of it’s animal, but it’s

403
00:26:55,400 –> 00:26:57,640
necessary.
You can’t do without its

404
00:26:57,640 –> 00:26:59,520
hormones.
You can’t do without all its

405
00:26:59,520 –> 00:27:03,480
functionalism that’s part of a
natural body, OK?

406
00:27:03,560 –> 00:27:06,200
And there’s nothing wrong with
that, OK.

407
00:27:06,200 –> 00:27:09,760
But they weren’t strong enough
to suggest a wrong thing of

408
00:27:09,760 –> 00:27:12,000
themselves.
OK, And.

409
00:27:12,000 –> 00:27:16,720
Therefore, wrong ideas had to be
communicated to them externally.

410
00:27:17,160 –> 00:27:18,680
And that’s exactly what
happened.

411
00:27:19,360 –> 00:27:20,640
OK.
And God did that.

412
00:27:20,640 –> 00:27:26,200
He raised up that beast all
right, for necessary purposes.

413
00:27:29,080 –> 00:27:34,760
And of course he suggests a lie.
And of course, he has no.

414
00:27:34,760 –> 00:27:37,920
Moral faculties.
So he doesn’t know it’s a lie.

415
00:27:38,120 –> 00:27:41,600
That’s a lie, OK?
He doesn’t know it’s

416
00:27:41,600 –> 00:27:44,920
disbelieving God.
That’s disbelieving God, OK?

417
00:27:47,640 –> 00:27:55,360
He doesn’t realize that it would
be unloyal and and thankless and

418
00:27:55,360 –> 00:27:59,400
everything to ignore God.
He can’t understand any of that,

419
00:27:59,400 –> 00:28:04,240
OK?
All he knows is that the angels

420
00:28:04,240 –> 00:28:07,080
have got the knowledge of good
and evil and they’re glorious

421
00:28:07,080 –> 00:28:09,000
beings.
They’re not dead.

422
00:28:09,000 –> 00:28:12,760
They don’t look like dying.
And he’s a pure scientist from

423
00:28:12,760 –> 00:28:16,960
observation, OK?
Observation says you eat it.

424
00:28:17,640 –> 00:28:21,960
You’ve been a simple saying, you
read it, you’ll be an Angel, you

425
00:28:21,960 –> 00:28:24,120
aren’t done, OK, And that’s what
was put to it.

426
00:28:24,760 –> 00:28:30,760
OK, verse 3 but of the verse
four.

427
00:28:30,760 –> 00:28:34,320
And the serpent said unto the
woman, Thou shalt not, thou

428
00:28:34,320 –> 00:28:39,640
shalt not surely die.
For God doth know that in the

429
00:28:39,640 –> 00:28:42,880
day you eat thereof, then your
eyes should be open.

430
00:28:42,960 –> 00:28:49,240
You should be like the angels
knowing good and evil all right

431
00:28:51,480 –> 00:28:57,240
then verse 6 says, and when the
woman saw the tree was good for

432
00:28:57,240 –> 00:29:01,200
food, pleasant the eyes and make
one wise she took it pick up the

433
00:29:01,200 –> 00:29:07,080
word when so something obviously
happened between verse 5, which

434
00:29:07,080 –> 00:29:08,960
is the last words of the
serpent.

435
00:29:10,000 –> 00:29:13,840
God says God, he said God knows
you won’t die.

436
00:29:13,840 –> 00:29:18,520
You’ll be like the angels, OK?
You like like you’re now good

437
00:29:18,520 –> 00:29:20,080
and evil.
You’ll be angelic.

438
00:29:20,880 –> 00:29:30,160
OK, so then there’s obviously
something happens between verse

439
00:29:30,160 –> 00:29:33,960
5 and 6.
What happens?

440
00:29:35,400 –> 00:29:38,320
On your young brothers, what
happens between 5:00 and 6:00?

441
00:29:42,880 –> 00:29:47,160
It’s hot tonight, they got their
eyes open, but that’s about all.

442
00:29:50,320 –> 00:29:55,600
Sorry.
What’d he say?

443
00:29:57,840 –> 00:30:00,760
Ask the question again.
Start the question.

444
00:30:00,760 –> 00:30:03,680
She starts the question.
He’s been to school, the

445
00:30:03,680 –> 00:30:05,200
prophets.
He’s.

446
00:30:08,360 –> 00:30:11,480
Well, we’re told exactly what
happened, OK, and you want

447
00:30:11,480 –> 00:30:13,840
should write your margin these
verses.

448
00:30:14,120 –> 00:30:24,360
What happens between verse 5 and
6 is found in Hebrews 312, First

449
00:30:24,400 –> 00:30:30,120
Timothy 214, and 2nd Corinthians
11 and 3.

450
00:30:32,600 –> 00:30:33,520
To.
Start with.

451
00:30:33,720 –> 00:30:40,080
She starts to question.
That is, she has no answer.

452
00:30:40,440 –> 00:30:46,760
To this serpent, the serpent’s
logic, his logic, his reasoning

453
00:30:47,320 –> 00:30:51,200
seems correct, and she has no
answer for it.

454
00:30:52,120 –> 00:30:59,640
OK, she has no answer.
Then she makes the mistake of

455
00:30:59,640 –> 00:31:05,880
responding to 1st impulsive
thinking, which you should never

456
00:31:05,880 –> 00:31:07,720
do.
That might come across you.

457
00:31:07,720 –> 00:31:09,720
You may laugh at a promise of
God.

458
00:31:10,240 –> 00:31:12,200
Like Sarah.
But when she sat down and

459
00:31:12,200 –> 00:31:14,840
thought about it, Hebrew says
she believed.

460
00:31:15,400 –> 00:31:19,160
OK.
So we’re told she entered

461
00:31:19,560 –> 00:31:22,440
virtually into a state of
unbelief.

462
00:31:23,440 –> 00:31:26,640
And let’s look at 2nd
Corinthians 11/3.

463
00:31:38,870 –> 00:31:44,800
2nd Corinthians 11 verse 3 says
verse 2 I’m jealous over you

464
00:31:44,800 –> 00:31:48,080
with the godly jealousy, for
I’ve espouse you to one husband,

465
00:31:48,080 –> 00:31:50,840
that I may present you a chaste
virgin to Christ.

466
00:31:50,840 –> 00:31:55,440
Verse 3 For I fear lest by any
means has the serpent beguiled

467
00:31:55,440 –> 00:32:03,360
these through his subtility, so
your minds may be corrupted from

468
00:32:03,360 –> 00:32:11,280
the simplicity that’s in Christ.
So she was beguiled and her mind

469
00:32:11,360 –> 00:32:23,360
was corrupted.
OK, we find in Timothy, First

470
00:32:23,360 –> 00:32:38,600
Timothy 214.
It gives 3 reasons why the

471
00:32:38,960 –> 00:32:44,200
sisters should not usurp
authority over the man but be in

472
00:32:44,200 –> 00:32:47,480
silence.
Verse 12 of First Timothy 2.

473
00:32:48,360 –> 00:32:53,400
The first reason is verse 13 for
Adam was first formed.

474
00:32:53,800 –> 00:32:58,560
Then a.
The second reason is Adam was

475
00:32:58,560 –> 00:33:05,320
not deceived, but the woman
being deceived was 3 in the

476
00:33:05,320 –> 00:33:10,840
transgression.
So a reason 1 Adam was first

477
00:33:10,840 –> 00:33:12,560
formed.
Reason 2.

478
00:33:12,560 –> 00:33:15,280
The woman was deceived, reason
3.

479
00:33:15,720 –> 00:33:22,480
She was in, that is part of the
transgression, part of the fall

480
00:33:22,480 –> 00:33:27,240
of man, in other words.
And for those three reasons, she

481
00:33:27,240 –> 00:33:31,640
was not to teach, to keep
silence in the ecclesia and not

482
00:33:31,640 –> 00:33:37,320
usurp authority over the man.
So the point is, what went on?

483
00:33:37,360 –> 00:33:42,960
She was deceived.
And how we read, just read from

484
00:33:42,960 –> 00:33:49,720
Corinthians, that her mind was
beguiled and corrupted.

485
00:33:50,720 –> 00:33:56,560
Let’s look at what this state of
mind is like.

486
00:33:56,640 –> 00:34:01,560
Hebrews chapters 3 and four are
all about unbelief.

487
00:34:02,880 –> 00:34:08,719
Like nowhere else in the Bible,
it points up the malady of

488
00:34:08,719 –> 00:34:14,560
unbelief and what it constitutes
when you father, believe what

489
00:34:14,560 –> 00:34:20,360
God has said.
Hebrews 3, verse 12.

490
00:34:23,600 –> 00:34:29,800
Take heed brethren, lest there
be in any of you what an evil

491
00:34:29,800 –> 00:34:36,719
heart of unbelief in departing
from the living God.

492
00:34:40,080 –> 00:34:43,679
Verse 19.
So you see that they, that is

493
00:34:43,679 –> 00:34:45,600
Israel could not enter in the
land.

494
00:34:45,600 –> 00:34:48,960
Why?
Because of unbelief.

495
00:34:50,000 –> 00:34:55,400
Again in chapter 4.
OK, it keeps repeating this, the

496
00:34:55,400 –> 00:34:58,600
end of verse 6.
Because of unbelief.

497
00:34:59,160 –> 00:35:04,240
Verse 11 fall after the same
example of unbelief.

498
00:35:04,760 –> 00:35:09,600
Unbelief is a evil state of the
heart.

499
00:35:14,320 –> 00:35:20,600
So let’s go back to Genesis 3.
Did someone ask a question then?

500
00:35:21,360 –> 00:35:29,400
No, sorry, it was just a yawn.
So what happened between verse 5

501
00:35:29,400 –> 00:35:33,160
and 6 was.
That she believed the serpent,

502
00:35:33,200 –> 00:35:37,640
which means she had to
disbelieve God and a

503
00:35:37,640 –> 00:35:41,840
disbelieving God, and in
believing the serpent had a deep

504
00:35:41,840 –> 00:35:44,360
psychological effect on her
mind.

505
00:35:44,920 –> 00:35:48,400
A deceived and a corrupted and
an evil heart.

506
00:35:49,920 –> 00:35:51,880
I don’t think I have to go into
all this.

507
00:35:51,880 –> 00:35:53,560
I think we’ve all experienced.
It.

508
00:35:54,960 –> 00:35:57,160
You know when you can be in a
good frame of mind.

509
00:35:57,440 –> 00:36:02,640
You know, when passions can shut
off that and you can descend

510
00:36:02,640 –> 00:36:08,840
into an evil state of mind, the
basic to the atonement and basic

511
00:36:08,840 –> 00:36:14,040
to the record in Genesis is
unbelief versus belief.

512
00:36:15,120 –> 00:36:20,360
It’s faith versus lack of faith.
OK.

513
00:36:20,760 –> 00:36:24,720
And that’s fundamental.
And you say, well, that’s too

514
00:36:24,720 –> 00:36:26,720
simplistic.
Well, I put it to you in your,

515
00:36:26,800 –> 00:36:31,360
in our personal lives, OK?
I mean, God is everything and

516
00:36:31,360 –> 00:36:33,840
God is present everywhere at all
times.

517
00:36:34,680 –> 00:36:38,960
Now, if you could sustain that
in every situation, there’s no

518
00:36:38,960 –> 00:36:41,640
way you’d do most of the things
that you do wrong.

519
00:36:41,640 –> 00:36:44,320
There’s no way you wouldn’t do
it if you.

520
00:36:44,880 –> 00:36:49,720
I mean, the funny part is that
if someone said challenge you

521
00:36:49,720 –> 00:36:51,960
and watch your belief and they
said if you believe that we’re

522
00:36:51,960 –> 00:36:55,400
going to shoot you, you know,
the army or something, The funny

523
00:36:55,400 –> 00:36:57,240
part is you’d stand up and get
shot.

524
00:36:58,600 –> 00:37:04,720
But in another situation, you
behave as if God wasn’t there.

525
00:37:04,720 –> 00:37:17,570
What
goes on?

526
00:37:18,130 –> 00:37:23,530
OK, what goes on?
We shut off the moral factories.

527
00:37:23,530 –> 00:37:28,450
We just draw a blind and.
They don’t exist and we start

528
00:37:28,450 –> 00:37:30,770
thinking like this and it takes
over.

529
00:37:32,170 –> 00:37:37,400
And when it satisfied itself.
The blind runs up by itself and

530
00:37:37,400 –> 00:37:40,240
all the moral factories come
back in and you feel absolutely

531
00:37:40,240 –> 00:37:43,160
rich.
True, true.

532
00:37:45,280 –> 00:37:52,760
So that describes So what
happened in the fall and why is

533
00:37:52,760 –> 00:37:54,560
this so important in the
atonement?

534
00:37:55,120 –> 00:38:00,120
The first right problem is
disbelieving what God has said.

535
00:38:01,720 –> 00:38:06,200
And believing something else, in
this case, deceived her.

536
00:38:06,200 –> 00:38:09,880
She was deceived, OK.
And she believes something else

537
00:38:10,280 –> 00:38:11,200
now.
That’s what happened.

538
00:38:11,840 –> 00:38:13,960
So she’s in an evil state of
mind.

539
00:38:14,480 –> 00:38:18,680
You know, it’s like me when I
was a kid and Mum goes out

540
00:38:18,680 –> 00:38:21,720
somewhere and I’m home by
myself, you know, And there’s,

541
00:38:21,800 –> 00:38:24,960
there’s, there’s this white
bread and there’s this.

542
00:38:25,600 –> 00:38:27,640
Butter, which was rationed in
the war.

543
00:38:27,640 –> 00:38:33,800
And there’s the condensed milk
and the coconut spread in this

544
00:38:34,240 –> 00:38:37,360
as certain jams.
You can imagine what the

545
00:38:37,360 –> 00:38:38,960
sandwich finished up looking
like.

546
00:38:39,280 –> 00:38:41,880
That’s it.
And it made me feel quite ill.

547
00:38:41,880 –> 00:38:44,680
But, I mean, I was in a state of
excitement.

548
00:38:45,840 –> 00:38:49,360
I was out, and I had access to
all these things that I could

549
00:38:49,360 –> 00:38:53,240
cover it up before she got home.
But, you know, it’s a state of

550
00:38:53,240 –> 00:38:57,800
excitement of freedom from
restriction, OK, Which was a

551
00:38:57,800 –> 00:38:59,520
healthy restriction.
OK.

552
00:39:00,040 –> 00:39:03,520
And so she wouldn’t understand
this or even analyse it all.

553
00:39:03,520 –> 00:39:07,920
But this is all happening OK,
and consequently they’ve been

554
00:39:07,920 –> 00:39:10,360
passing this tree for who knows?
How long?

555
00:39:10,360 –> 00:39:13,240
All right.
And looking at the fruit and

556
00:39:13,240 –> 00:39:15,840
saying, yeah, the fruit of
death, you know, whatever, What?

557
00:39:16,200 –> 00:39:20,120
All right.
But now to change the state of

558
00:39:20,120 –> 00:39:23,920
unbelief, the psychological
effects, the nervous effects,

559
00:39:23,920 –> 00:39:25,560
who knows?
It’s too complex to know, you

560
00:39:26,600 –> 00:39:30,880
know, Too complex to know.
It stirred up the very good

561
00:39:30,880 –> 00:39:34,280
lust, the flesh, the very good
lust, the iron, the very good

562
00:39:34,280 –> 00:39:39,520
blood of life.
And they became very excited by

563
00:39:39,760 –> 00:39:44,960
unbelief, the psychology of
unbelief, and all that’s

564
00:39:44,960 –> 00:39:50,840
involved in that.
Consequently, she looked at the

565
00:39:50,840 –> 00:39:53,480
tree differently.
It was good to look at the food.

566
00:39:53,480 –> 00:39:54,120
It was.
Good.

567
00:39:54,320 –> 00:39:58,840
Pleasant to the eyes OK and I’ve
made one wise.

568
00:39:59,320 –> 00:40:03,000
And you could imagine her you
know using all these moral

569
00:40:03,000 –> 00:40:07,760
faculties she’s had all right
but eventually switching them

570
00:40:07,760 –> 00:40:12,120
virtually off.
OK these were now in flames.

571
00:40:12,680 –> 00:40:17,120
This was now in control.
And she could say, oh, and she

572
00:40:17,120 –> 00:40:18,760
thought she’d be bringing this
in.

573
00:40:18,760 –> 00:40:20,760
God wants me to be like the
angels.

574
00:40:21,000 –> 00:40:23,480
There’s nothing wrong with being
like the angels.

575
00:40:24,000 –> 00:40:25,440
Yeah, the.
You know, the.

576
00:40:26,160 –> 00:40:31,400
That’s our hope, to be like the
angels, you know, and, and, and,

577
00:40:32,160 –> 00:40:36,320
and all these things are getting
wrongly used adversely.

578
00:40:36,320 –> 00:40:41,120
What you’re doing.
Lust is so strong, it’s drawing

579
00:40:41,120 –> 00:40:43,960
a blind.
And over all this, in the end,

580
00:40:44,160 –> 00:40:47,640
it’s just drawing a blind down.
And that’s what we all

581
00:40:47,640 –> 00:40:53,920
experience.
It’s called the carnal thinking.

582
00:40:53,920 –> 00:41:00,640
It’s called the carnal mind.
All right, her actually

583
00:41:00,640 –> 00:41:05,440
disobeying and taking of that
that fruit was more or less

584
00:41:05,440 –> 00:41:09,440
inevitable.
We must realize what the

585
00:41:09,440 –> 00:41:13,800
possibilities are here.
She needn’t have done that.

586
00:41:15,840 –> 00:41:17,080
She needn’t have done that at
all.

587
00:41:18,400 –> 00:41:20,640
What should she have done?
It’s easy for us to say.

588
00:41:22,000 –> 00:41:25,280
What should she have said?
Well, she was educated by God.

589
00:41:25,280 –> 00:41:29,480
She’d been educated in moral.
Principles as well as how to how

590
00:41:29,480 –> 00:41:33,160
to build houses and keep them
clean and all that thing and and

591
00:41:33,200 –> 00:41:36,280
preparing her for motherhood,
which she obviously physically

592
00:41:36,280 –> 00:41:40,480
wasn’t quite ready for yet but
parents to be good parents are

593
00:41:40,480 –> 00:41:43,040
going to have good education
before they’re ready for that

594
00:41:43,040 –> 00:41:46,080
and due time and God would have
increased their.

595
00:41:46,840 –> 00:41:49,880
Relationships so that they could
come together to have a family,

596
00:41:49,880 –> 00:41:52,840
but they’d be ready for God.
Like in Christ’s case.

597
00:41:52,840 –> 00:41:55,080
He always prepared the mind
ahead of the body.

598
00:41:55,080 –> 00:41:57,840
At 12 years of age, he’s the
head of puberty.

599
00:41:57,840 –> 00:42:00,600
Wasn’t he always prepared and
guts the way God operates?

600
00:42:00,600 –> 00:42:01,280
Where?
Possible.

601
00:42:01,480 –> 00:42:06,440
OK, Now here was a trial.
It could have been a great step

602
00:42:06,440 –> 00:42:11,200
forward or it could be a great
step backwards.

603
00:42:11,680 –> 00:42:14,920
Took a backward step.
Now what should she have said?

604
00:42:15,160 –> 00:42:18,640
She should have said something
like this.

605
00:42:18,680 –> 00:42:22,160
You know, something like this,
She should have said, well, I

606
00:42:22,160 –> 00:42:24,120
don’t know the answer to that
job, right?

607
00:42:24,120 –> 00:42:28,800
I don’t know the answer to that.
But you know what?

608
00:42:28,960 –> 00:42:33,440
I’m not going to take that fruit
because I owe God my life.

609
00:42:34,200 –> 00:42:37,920
I owe my existence.
I owe my loyalty.

610
00:42:38,880 –> 00:42:41,920
And even though I don’t know the
answer to that, you sound right.

611
00:42:43,240 –> 00:42:46,000
I’m not going to do it.
That’s what she should have

612
00:42:46,000 –> 00:42:48,920
said.
And should have taken a great

613
00:42:48,920 –> 00:42:54,120
step in patience and loyalty and
gratitude and awe and all those

614
00:42:54,120 –> 00:42:56,960
wonderful moral faculties.
Would have taken a great leap

615
00:42:56,960 –> 00:42:59,760
forward.
Here at the moment of greatest

616
00:42:59,760 –> 00:43:03,640
weakness, when she’s confused of
mine and everything, and the

617
00:43:03,720 –> 00:43:09,200
serpent sounds right, here’s a
moment of weakness which could

618
00:43:09,200 –> 00:43:13,960
have been a great step forward.
But she chose to take a great

619
00:43:13,960 –> 00:43:19,560
step back.
She’s free will, OK, And her

620
00:43:19,560 –> 00:43:22,680
passions weren’t inflamed like
ours are, OK?

621
00:43:24,000 –> 00:43:28,680
She had that choice and that
shows how important free will

622
00:43:28,680 –> 00:43:36,680
and in the without it, he can’t
operate without it.

623
00:43:36,840 –> 00:43:38,920
OK.
He used to worry me a little

624
00:43:38,920 –> 00:43:41,000
bit.
That passage about they said to

625
00:43:41,000 –> 00:43:43,000
Christ, why do you teach
parables?

626
00:43:43,600 –> 00:43:46,520
Oh, he said and he quotes I was
I unless saying they would say

627
00:43:47,120 –> 00:43:50,880
and hearing that understand and
be converted, you think isn’t

628
00:43:50,880 –> 00:43:53,080
that what he wants you?
Isn’t that what he wants?

629
00:43:53,600 –> 00:43:54,840
You know, isn’t that what he
wants?

630
00:43:56,920 –> 00:43:59,520
The simple fact is he spoke in
parables.

631
00:44:01,080 –> 00:44:04,200
All an honest heart had to do
was to come up later and say,

632
00:44:04,680 –> 00:44:07,440
what did you mean by that?
They didn’t do it.

633
00:44:08,160 –> 00:44:13,680
They chose them to do it.
They preferred to sort of be a

634
00:44:13,680 –> 00:44:16,360
bit vague about all that.
If they found out a bit too much

635
00:44:16,360 –> 00:44:19,640
about it, it might in might
interfere with their comfort

636
00:44:19,640 –> 00:44:22,800
zones in life.
OK, in other words, you’ve got

637
00:44:22,800 –> 00:44:25,960
to make a choice.
Good ground is said to be good

638
00:44:26,040 –> 00:44:27,880
and honest.
You don’t have to be really

639
00:44:27,880 –> 00:44:30,160
bright.
You don’t have to be the the the

640
00:44:30,160 –> 00:44:33,240
mighty of this world, but
there’s got to be an intrinsic

641
00:44:33,240 –> 00:44:37,160
honest there to to when when
you’re confronted with the

642
00:44:37,160 –> 00:44:40,360
facts, you are prepared to
humble yourself and accept them.

643
00:44:40,360 –> 00:44:42,000
That seems to be got to be
there.

644
00:44:42,400 –> 00:44:46,280
So she could have made this
great move in the right

645
00:44:46,280 –> 00:44:51,000
direction and she didn’t
consequently in Scripture.

646
00:44:52,480 –> 00:44:57,160
And this is all.
I’ve got it there, but in 8

647
00:44:57,160 –> 00:45:00,160
pages you can read the section
on the Carnal Mind and it’s

648
00:45:00,160 –> 00:45:01,880
magnificent.
You’ll get all this.

649
00:45:02,720 –> 00:45:04,400
I’m just putting it in simple
terms.

650
00:45:04,800 –> 00:45:08,920
OK, you read those 8 pages on
the count of mine and and

651
00:45:08,920 –> 00:45:10,760
they’ll.
Possess rather get you all this

652
00:45:11,080 –> 00:45:18,200
all right, so let’s see if we’ve
covered what we want there.

653
00:45:19,960 –> 00:45:24,240
See, he’s a moral being.
He’s a self-centered creature.

654
00:45:25,040 –> 00:45:30,560
He wasn’t a Sinner himself, but
he suggested sin and Eve should

655
00:45:30,560 –> 00:45:33,200
have the dominion over him.
She didn’t.

656
00:45:33,360 –> 00:45:37,720
She let the serpent have
dominion over her, and the

657
00:45:37,720 –> 00:45:42,560
punishment fits the crime.
If you want to be a servant, if

658
00:45:42,560 –> 00:45:46,640
you want the animals to have
dominion over you, well, she was

659
00:45:46,640 –> 00:45:48,960
made a little bit more
animalistic for that.

660
00:45:50,040 –> 00:45:54,760
Her lusts were inflamed.
OK, The lust, the flesh, the

661
00:45:54,760 –> 00:45:59,440
eye, and the pride of life.
Having taken the fruit, it had

662
00:45:59,440 –> 00:46:03,720
certain physiological effects.
It wasn’t a change of nature.

663
00:46:03,720 –> 00:46:05,440
We used the term change of
nature.

664
00:46:05,440 –> 00:46:08,680
I think we should be more
careful and say there’s a change

665
00:46:08,680 –> 00:46:15,200
in a Physiology.
In other words, certain light

666
00:46:15,200 –> 00:46:19,280
and propensities were brought to
maturity, as we will away.

667
00:46:19,800 –> 00:46:22,560
All right.
And she suddenly found herself

668
00:46:22,560 –> 00:46:26,120
in a position with certain
desires toward her husband that

669
00:46:26,120 –> 00:46:29,240
hitherto for weren’t weren’t
anything as strong as that.

670
00:46:29,640 –> 00:46:37,960
OK, consequently in Scripture
the serpent is used for the

671
00:46:37,960 –> 00:46:44,680
carnal mind, you know, and John
and Christ accuses the the Jews

672
00:46:45,920 –> 00:46:50,440
the devil is a father.
OK, and a great discourse on

673
00:46:50,440 –> 00:46:58,100
that.
And here we want to disagree

674
00:46:58,100 –> 00:47:07,720
with our Sunday school notes.
OK, that goes on the side at the

675
00:47:07,720 –> 00:47:11,960
end of verse 6 it says, and she
took the fruit thereof and did

676
00:47:11,960 –> 00:47:16,920
eat, and gave also to her
husband with her, and he did

677
00:47:16,920 –> 00:47:20,720
eat.
Just turn over the page to verse

678
00:47:20,720 –> 00:47:27,720
17 and the judgement of Adam it
said, 17 chapter 3.

679
00:47:27,720 –> 00:47:30,520
And unto Adam, he said.
Because.

680
00:47:33,720 –> 00:47:37,880
Thou hast hearkened under the
voice of thy wife.

681
00:47:43,360 –> 00:47:47,680
She the the woman didn’t hearken
to the voice of God.

682
00:47:49,720 –> 00:47:53,280
She did initially.
She allowed herself to be

683
00:47:53,280 –> 00:48:00,400
deceived away from that.
Adam is condemned because he

684
00:48:00,920 –> 00:48:02,880
didn’t hearken under the
serpent.

685
00:48:03,720 –> 00:48:10,560
He hearkened to the voice of his
wife simply.

686
00:48:10,560 –> 00:48:14,400
It says here he gave also unto
her husband with her, and he did

687
00:48:14,400 –> 00:48:17,480
it OK.
And the consequence was the eyes

688
00:48:17,480 –> 00:48:22,320
of them both were open and that
they knew they were naked and

689
00:48:22,320 –> 00:48:25,320
they tried to cover themselves
with fig leaves.

690
00:48:25,840 –> 00:48:36,800
All right, we know that story.
Rather, Thomas Oh, the

691
00:48:36,800 –> 00:48:39,680
difference in the Sunday school
notes is this the Sunday school

692
00:48:39,680 –> 00:48:42,160
notes suggest.
And I can remember when they

693
00:48:42,160 –> 00:48:45,400
were first put together and who
put them that idea in there and

694
00:48:45,400 –> 00:48:48,680
it’s sort of never gone out.
OK.

695
00:48:49,840 –> 00:48:54,360
The general idea is, and it’s
based on that quote in Timothy,

696
00:48:54,360 –> 00:48:58,080
if you’d like to just turn that
one looked at before the first

697
00:48:58,080 –> 00:49:23,240
Timothy 214, just look at that.
OK, it’s based on verse 14.

698
00:49:24,040 –> 00:49:28,040
Adam was not deceived, but the
woman being deceived was in the

699
00:49:28,040 –> 00:49:32,280
transgression and that that that
verse is taken.

700
00:49:32,920 –> 00:49:36,840
And in the Sunday school notes,
it suggests that Eve was

701
00:49:36,840 –> 00:49:41,120
actually deceived by the serpent
and because she was deceived,

702
00:49:41,400 –> 00:49:45,880
she made a wrong decision and
she transgressed, whereas they

703
00:49:45,880 –> 00:49:49,320
quote that quote.
And so but Adam wasn’t deceived,

704
00:49:49,640 –> 00:49:52,800
OK, it says so there.
And Timothy Adam wasn’t

705
00:49:52,800 –> 00:49:57,600
deceived, therefore he.
Went in with his eyes open and

706
00:49:57,600 –> 00:50:03,560
knew exactly what was happening
and it the side of his wife

707
00:50:04,040 –> 00:50:07,920
right and they they give all
these ideas, his love for his

708
00:50:07,920 –> 00:50:11,480
wife and Lord, his life above of
loyalty to God.

709
00:50:11,480 –> 00:50:15,680
But the suggestion is he goes in
absolutely, his eyes open and he

710
00:50:15,680 –> 00:50:20,840
just deliberately and coldly
transgresses the law of God in

711
00:50:20,840 –> 00:50:23,280
favour of his wife and.
That’s what it says in the

712
00:50:23,720 –> 00:50:30,680
senior Sunday school notes.
OK, now we disagree with that.

713
00:50:30,680 –> 00:50:33,480
And you?
And there’s a principle

714
00:50:33,480 –> 00:50:38,400
involved, and that’s the
principle of unbelief.

715
00:50:39,560 –> 00:50:43,840
The problem is whether you
choose to believe a proposition

716
00:50:44,040 –> 00:50:48,840
that’s contrary to God’s Word.
It’s as simple as that.

717
00:50:49,200 –> 00:50:52,600
And the whole base of
transgression is either

718
00:50:52,600 –> 00:50:55,280
ignorance or unbelief, practical
unbelief.

719
00:50:55,680 –> 00:50:57,520
That’s fundamental to the
atonement.

720
00:50:58,280 –> 00:51:03,520
And for Adam, who’s the federal
sinners to have entered in there

721
00:51:03,560 –> 00:51:08,760
without the principle unbelief,
it just goes right out of the

722
00:51:09,200 –> 00:51:12,840
basic principle.
I mean, why is Christ going

723
00:51:12,840 –> 00:51:15,320
around talking about faith?
Little faith.

724
00:51:15,320 –> 00:51:17,080
Have faith.
If you’ve got faith, just

725
00:51:17,080 –> 00:51:18,200
believe.
Just believe.

726
00:51:18,200 –> 00:51:20,360
Believe what you know.
Faith was everything.

727
00:51:20,800 –> 00:51:22,360
The problem is people don’t
believe.

728
00:51:22,360 –> 00:51:26,160
It’s a habit.
Unbelief’s a habit, a terrible

729
00:51:26,160 –> 00:51:28,520
habit.
We all do it OK?

730
00:51:30,120 –> 00:51:37,160
And Brother Thomas in that
section on the carnal mind, she

731
00:51:37,200 –> 00:51:40,320
he describes at great length
what Eve would have done and

732
00:51:40,320 –> 00:51:45,920
virtually seduced Adam into
taking.

733
00:51:45,920 –> 00:51:51,960
The the fruit, all right.
She had ulterior motives, OK,

734
00:51:52,000 –> 00:51:56,360
and certain reasoning had
entered into her, and it had

735
00:51:56,360 –> 00:52:00,600
blocked off her moral faculties.
She is now under control of

736
00:52:00,600 –> 00:52:06,480
inflamed lusts and using her
reasoning OK, she came along and

737
00:52:06,480 –> 00:52:09,960
became the tempter to Adam.
Who’s not?

738
00:52:10,000 –> 00:52:11,240
Yet.
Inflamed.

739
00:52:11,520 –> 00:52:14,920
OK.
And she’s taken on board this

740
00:52:14,920 –> 00:52:19,480
sort of reasoning.
And in her excited state, she

741
00:52:19,480 –> 00:52:21,600
tempts the man.
You say, Well, the man’s not an

742
00:52:21,600 –> 00:52:24,400
excited state.
He hasn’t eaten another fruit.

743
00:52:24,560 –> 00:52:26,200
OK.
And.

744
00:52:28,760 –> 00:52:34,080
But he’s got the same problem,
OK, He’s got the same problem.

745
00:52:34,520 –> 00:52:38,600
She comes along and says yes,
I’ve taken it, you know, yes,

746
00:52:38,600 –> 00:52:40,320
it’s like.
Angels, it’s wonderful.

747
00:52:40,680 –> 00:52:44,160
And he has a good look at her.
And he says on the day there is

748
00:52:44,160 –> 00:52:47,080
so they should surely die.
She wasn’t dead.

749
00:52:47,080 –> 00:52:49,200
In fact, she looked more alive
than she ever looked.

750
00:52:49,840 –> 00:52:52,240
OK, she’s bright and rosy and
pink.

751
00:52:52,720 –> 00:52:55,880
OK, She wasn’t dead.
She was well and truly alive.

752
00:52:57,800 –> 00:53:00,480
Now obviously don’t you go to
sleep it?

753
00:53:00,760 –> 00:53:08,160
Obviously you had a hard day.
Obviously the serpent didn’t

754
00:53:08,160 –> 00:53:13,880
even try to tempt it, Adam.
OK, it took a greater tempter to

755
00:53:14,160 –> 00:53:16,040
give an equal temptation to
Adam.

756
00:53:16,240 –> 00:53:20,120
It took the temptation of a
woman that had actually eaten of

757
00:53:20,120 –> 00:53:26,000
it, OK, and participated in it,
making all these lying claims

758
00:53:26,000 –> 00:53:29,600
about it because she’s got an
ulterior motive and that’s to

759
00:53:29,600 –> 00:53:36,440
bring him and she deceives him.
And you say, well, Timothy’s not

760
00:53:36,440 –> 00:53:41,920
saying that, OK.
And rather, Thomas says, she

761
00:53:41,920 –> 00:53:45,400
succeeded in kindling the same
lust that had taken possession

762
00:53:45,400 –> 00:53:48,760
of herself, his flesh, his eyes,
and his pride of.

763
00:53:48,760 –> 00:53:52,600
Life were all inflamed and he
followed her and her either way

764
00:53:52,600 –> 00:53:54,280
as fools.
To the correction.

765
00:53:54,280 –> 00:53:56,680
Of the stock, then it’s the
principle.

766
00:53:57,160 –> 00:54:01,600
They had both.
Fallen into unbelief.

767
00:54:03,960 –> 00:54:09,920
He was deceived, you say?
Oh, Timothy says he wasn’t

768
00:54:09,920 –> 00:54:11,920
deceived.
Let’s look at Timothy again.

769
00:54:18,960 –> 00:54:22,360
Put on your thinking, Cap.
Or his brother Carter would say,

770
00:54:22,680 –> 00:54:26,440
get up the lines of girt up your
loins ready to run.

771
00:54:26,440 –> 00:54:31,760
In other words, start thinking.
OK, just look, just for three

772
00:54:31,760 –> 00:54:38,640
minutes, Think ha, You ready?
OK, it says verse 14 and Adam

773
00:54:38,640 –> 00:54:46,120
was not deceived by whom?
But the woman being deceived.

774
00:54:46,120 –> 00:54:50,880
Who was the woman deceived?
By the serpent, correct?

775
00:54:52,320 –> 00:54:55,600
And that’s an ellipsis.
It’s not there because you know

776
00:54:55,600 –> 00:54:57,240
it, but to.
Read.

777
00:54:57,240 –> 00:55:01,680
In ellipsis means a word that’s
understood to in the meaning,

778
00:55:01,680 –> 00:55:05,680
but it’s not actually air OK.
In other words, the meaning is

779
00:55:05,680 –> 00:55:08,480
the woman was deceived by the
serpent.

780
00:55:09,520 –> 00:55:14,120
OK.
Therefore, the first one reads,

781
00:55:14,320 –> 00:55:21,160
Adam was not deceived by the
serpent, that the difference he

782
00:55:21,160 –> 00:55:25,000
was deceived by the woman.
And you say, how do you know

783
00:55:25,000 –> 00:55:26,880
that?
But that’s what it’s saying

784
00:55:26,880 –> 00:55:33,480
there, OK, this we’ve got 3
reasons here why the women

785
00:55:33,480 –> 00:55:37,240
should be silent in the
ecclesion being subjection and

786
00:55:37,240 –> 00:55:39,440
why the man should take the
lead.

787
00:55:39,800 –> 00:55:45,520
All right.
Now it says she was deceived by

788
00:55:45,520 –> 00:55:48,160
the serpent and she was in the
transgression.

789
00:55:48,160 –> 00:55:49,960
There she is in the
transgression.

790
00:55:50,480 –> 00:55:53,040
She’s deceiving her husband.
OK.

791
00:55:54,360 –> 00:55:58,200
OK, but do you think of the
proposition say the Sunday

792
00:55:58,200 –> 00:56:01,280
school notes are wrong?
Oh, don’t get me wrong, the

793
00:56:01,280 –> 00:56:03,680
Sunday school senior notes are
wonderful notes.

794
00:56:03,760 –> 00:56:05,800
I just disagreed on this point,
OK?

795
00:56:06,200 –> 00:56:14,200
They’re wonderful notes.
OK, I didn’t get up the lines of

796
00:56:14,200 –> 00:56:15,960
my mind.
Where was I?

797
00:56:16,120 –> 00:56:24,000
Yeah.
OK, so but the proposition of

798
00:56:24,000 –> 00:56:29,920
the notes is she was deceived
and therefore she said, in other

799
00:56:29,920 –> 00:56:32,560
words, there’s a bit of an
excuse for her sinning.

800
00:56:33,760 –> 00:56:37,240
But Adam wasn’t deceived, so
there’s no excuse for him.

801
00:56:37,400 –> 00:56:43,200
He went in deliberately and
defied God and transgressed in

802
00:56:43,200 –> 00:56:47,640
knowledge and deliverance.
Now which one should be leading

803
00:56:47,640 –> 00:56:49,680
the ecclesia?
I would say the sisters should

804
00:56:49,680 –> 00:56:51,240
be leading the ecclesia at
least.

805
00:56:51,240 –> 00:56:54,400
They got deceived, got tricked
into transgressing.

806
00:56:55,080 –> 00:56:57,960
Whereas if Adam went in there
with his eyes open, deliberately

807
00:56:57,960 –> 00:57:00,440
transgressed, he shouldn’t be
leading the meeting.

808
00:57:01,080 –> 00:57:03,400
Get the point?
Can you follow?

809
00:57:03,400 –> 00:57:08,680
That reasoning, therefore it
can’t be meaning that he wasn’t

810
00:57:08,680 –> 00:57:10,880
deceived.
He was deceived the right, but

811
00:57:10,880 –> 00:57:13,760
he’s deceived with something far
greater than a serpent.

812
00:57:14,320 –> 00:57:21,080
He’s deceived by his wife.
And because she was more readily

813
00:57:21,080 –> 00:57:25,600
deceived by a servant, more
readily deceived, and because

814
00:57:25,600 –> 00:57:28,880
she was involved in that
transgression, she was relevant.

815
00:57:28,880 –> 00:57:32,880
Before she was equal with Adam,
she was relegated to the

816
00:57:32,880 –> 00:57:44,460
position of subservience.
All right, So when they noticed

817
00:57:44,460 –> 00:57:49,680
the process here.
That’s the process.

818
00:57:49,720 –> 00:57:53,640
Ideas are put.
They ignore the moral issues.

819
00:57:53,640 –> 00:57:56,120
They blank out the moral
responsibilities.

820
00:57:56,120 –> 00:57:59,760
That’s what they choose to do.
And it leads to unbelief.

821
00:58:00,520 –> 00:58:03,440
Unbelief leads to excited lusts
in both of them.

822
00:58:03,720 –> 00:58:09,640
OK, not just in the all right
and that leads to transgression

823
00:58:09,640 –> 00:58:13,160
and transgression brings its
punishments and consequences,

824
00:58:13,320 –> 00:58:16,840
natural consequences and imposed
consequences.

825
00:58:17,440 –> 00:58:20,920
OK, they.
They’re and the fact that they

826
00:58:20,920 –> 00:58:23,800
are now we’re aware of their
nakedness.

827
00:58:24,200 –> 00:58:27,840
This aware of their nakedness is
a great flag.

828
00:58:27,840 –> 00:58:31,160
A flag is someone waving trying
to attract their attention.

829
00:58:31,520 –> 00:58:33,400
So it’s trying to attract their
attention.

830
00:58:33,640 –> 00:58:38,200
It’s saying in delicate way,
saying in a delicate way that

831
00:58:38,280 –> 00:58:41,840
certain of their propensities
were not certain of all of them

832
00:58:41,880 –> 00:58:44,480
were awakened.
But it picks on the section of

833
00:58:44,480 –> 00:58:47,400
propensity because that’s
something easily understood, but

834
00:58:47,400 –> 00:58:52,360
only picks on that and uses them
as a flag as saying the lust,

835
00:58:52,360 –> 00:58:56,000
the flesh, the lust they are and
the pride of life, which isn’t

836
00:58:56,000 –> 00:59:01,000
so visible.
OK, very invisible are all

837
00:59:01,080 –> 00:59:06,400
affected by this.
They’ve chosen to follow serpent

838
00:59:06,400 –> 00:59:10,360
thinking.
We, they’re, their propensities

839
00:59:10,360 –> 00:59:14,360
are now in flying to a point
where they virtually are slave

840
00:59:14,360 –> 00:59:17,360
to them to a certain extent.
They don’t need an external

841
00:59:17,360 –> 00:59:19,200
tempter anymore.
They’ll get plenty of external

842
00:59:19,200 –> 00:59:20,640
temptation.
They don’t need it.

843
00:59:20,640 –> 00:59:21,800
You can get it from within
there.

844
00:59:21,800 –> 00:59:23,440
We all know that from
experience.

845
00:59:23,840 –> 00:59:30,480
OK, so it was a great flag.
I mean when children get around,

846
00:59:30,480 –> 00:59:33,360
2 year olds get around under the
house, the boys, the little boys

847
00:59:33,360 –> 00:59:36,240
and girls with nothing on, it’s
a sign of innocence.

848
00:59:36,560 –> 00:59:39,520
But when adults do that, it’s a
sign of the very opposite, isn’t

849
00:59:39,520 –> 00:59:41,840
it?
OK.

850
00:59:46,960 –> 00:59:55,800
So of course Romans 5 and many
places tell us we inherit these

851
00:59:55,800 –> 01:00:01,440
problems from Adam.
OK, here’s Adam and Eve and we

852
01:00:01,440 –> 01:00:04,400
inherit and inflamed
propensities when we come to

853
01:00:04,720 –> 01:00:07,920
puberty.
Those things are enhanced in our

854
01:00:07,920 –> 01:00:11,120
minds.
The worst of them is the pride

855
01:00:11,120 –> 01:00:14,280
of life.
I think God Forgives a lot of

856
01:00:14,280 –> 01:00:17,920
things, but he won’t tolerate
the pride of life.

857
01:00:17,920 –> 01:00:20,840
He’ll have no flesh glory in his
presence and the.

858
01:00:20,840 –> 01:00:24,120
Pride of life is far bigger
problem than the other problems,

859
01:00:25,040 –> 01:00:29,320
far bigger, and they’re more
subtle and we’re less aware of

860
01:00:29,920 –> 01:00:31,800
her.
Extremely difficult.

861
01:00:31,800 –> 01:00:35,160
Problem.
The pride of life is a terrible

862
01:00:35,160 –> 01:00:43,040
thing.
So did anyone got any problems

863
01:00:43,040 –> 01:00:45,040
on what we put to you about
Timothy?

864
01:00:45,040 –> 01:00:49,920
There was any questions on that
or could you follow my arguments

865
01:00:49,920 –> 01:00:54,480
there?
No, never mind.

866
01:00:55,600 –> 01:01:01,280
OK, so let’s go to Romans 5 and
just check those verses In

867
01:01:01,440 –> 01:01:06,200
Romans chapter 5 says what we
inherit from Adam and and Eve.

868
01:01:11,710 –> 01:01:16,190
Oh, time’s gone.
Sorry to tell you, brother

869
01:01:16,190 –> 01:01:17,590
Chairman, but I forgot to tell
you.

870
01:01:17,590 –> 01:01:20,630
You’re supposed to go like that
5 minutes ago.

871
01:01:21,470 –> 01:01:24,310
We’re sorry.
We’ll take it up there on the

872
01:01:24,310 –> 01:01:25,350
next occasion.