Class 2 from this series was used for GCT Episode 251
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Right.
We are reading to open the
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Right.
We are reading to open the
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class.
Today we got Romans 8 versus 12
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to 39 and can I get James
Simpson to come up please?
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Even that James and have great
pleasure in calling brother Ben
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to do his study.
Suffer in the flesh for Christ’s
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sake, and fulfill your
obligation.
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Are we ready?
Good morning.
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Well, young people, my dear
brother and sisters.
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I’m not sure.
If I’ve fulfilled your
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expectations, but I think that
you have mine relative to the
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discussion that we had earlier
this week, didn’t we?
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The only one thing I’d request
is that there’s so many of you.
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And I don’t know you and I have
get up here and I talk and blah
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blah blah blah.
Right.
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And then after the studies, you
go and you have your
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conversations with each other,
you know?
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But I’d actually love to have
conversations with you too.
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I’d love.
For it to interact with you
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about whether these studies mean
anything.
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To you yet what you might find
that was interesting.
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To reflect on your own personal
experience and how this might
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apply to things that you’re
dealing with, stresses in your
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life, things that you are
concerned about, whether their
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relationships, where their
school, where their careers,
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whether their friendships that
are happening or not happening
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or stopped happening or anything
along those lines.
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The application of your faith to
your.
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Life or just a chat Don’t feel
at all that that I’m in any way.
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Aloof at all because I I
actually would love to talk to
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you and get to know you.
I’m going to be in New Zealand
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for a long time and I think
we’re going to be friends for a
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long time, so you might as well
get to know each other.
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So I’d really appreciate that.
And by the way, this afternoon I
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plan to kick your butt in
sports.
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So, you know, I mean, I might as
well know you.
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After I plow you.
Over in rugby, I can at least
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pull you up and say hi, you
know, So you know soccer first,
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right?
But then the real sport.
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Right.
So I guess we can start the
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recording now.
Our last class together, you
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know?
Romans 8 it’s.
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A great chapter, isn’t it?
Any chapter that begins with no
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condemnation for those in Christ
Jesus.
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That has to be a good chapter.
That has to be a chapter worth
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studying.
And in this chapter really
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doesn’t disappoint us, does it?
It really rewards study.
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But this chapter uses a really.
Fascinating and interesting.
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Word, doesn’t it?
And in fact our our reading
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brother brother James as he
began his reading he uses this
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word and it’s found in Romans
chapter 8 and verse 12 where we
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read.
Therefore, brethren, we are
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debtors.
We’re debtors.
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That’s the King James word, at
least.
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You know what’s so interesting
about the word debtor?
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I mean, imagine if you were
writing a chapter about your
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hope in Christ.
Would you have?
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Called your reader’s debtor.
Let me think about this I’m.
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I’m writing a chapter.
I’m.
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I’m.
I’m.
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Trying to inspire you, even
about your hope in Christ Jesus
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and I’m.
Calling you a debtor.
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I mean, what kind of hope
involves being a debtor?
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I have a lot of debt.
You know, a SB bank has a lot of
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debt on me, right?
And I’d actually like to relieve
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myself of that debt.
That would actually, I actually
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would hope to pay off the debt.
I owe to the bank.
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So what kind of what kind of
hope, anyways, involves being a
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debtor?
And if Paul says in Romans
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chapter 8, verse 12 that we’re
debtors, that means we owe
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something.
We have an obligation.
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You know, that’s an equally
valid way of putting it.
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An equally valid way of putting
this is that we we have an
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obligation.
So I ask you young people,
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you’re in Christ Jesus.
If you’re not, imagine for a
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moment that you are.
What’s your obligation?
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What is the debt that you have
to pay?
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What is your obligation in
Christ Jesus?
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Because you have one.
Actually, we don’t find out.
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Until verse 17, because Paul
spends verse 13 through 16 just
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sort of trying to explain what
this debt is so you know people
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don’t get spooked about it too
much.
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But yes, he doesn’t mention what
the debt is until verse 17.
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And so for a moment let’s just
move down to verse 17 where we
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have our answer.
Verse 17, reading out the new
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King James Version and if
children, then heirs, heirs of
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God and joiners with Christ, if
indeed.
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And that’s what the new King
James Version says.
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It says if indeed, and I’ll read
it out of the King James
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Version.
If so be so.
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If you’re reading your King
James Version, you got your
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pencils.
You know who still has their
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pencils.
Raise your.
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Hands good.
Now take your pencil and
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underline.
If so, be in the King James, or
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if indeed in the new King James,
because that’s quite an
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important bit.
You know, we have these
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wonderful blessings.
We’re in Christ.
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We have no combination where
we’re joint heirs.
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We’ll talk about what that means
in a moment.
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But there’s this if so be doing
these word ifs.
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This word if in Romans is an
important word.
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When you read the word if, pause
for a moment and say this is a
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big thing.
Paul doesn’t use that word if
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very casually in.
Romans the only uses.
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The word if if it really
matters, and this is one of the
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places he’s using that if
indeed.
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We suffer with him that we may
also be glorified together.
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So young people, our obligation
is to suffer.
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Bummer.
That’s not a very fun
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obligation.
But I can’t.
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I can’t do anything else but
just read the text in front of
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our eyes and you see the text
and I see the text, and it says
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very clearly that our debt, our
obligation is to suffer.
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Now help us get our head.
Around that obligation, I think
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it’s useful to look at the
parable of the forgiven debt in
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Matthew 18.
Turn there with me now, Matthew
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18, where we find the word
translate debtor.
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In Romans 8 is translated as
owed in Matthew 18 verse 24.
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So we find this and now this
word debtors not used very often
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in scripture, but this is one of
the places it’s used.
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So let’s take a look at this
parable and see if we learn
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anything about our obligation in
Christ.
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It’s very interesting and and
common parable.
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I’m sure you all know it, but
let’s read again together and
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just familiarize ourselves again
with it.
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Matthew 18 starting verse 23.
Therefore is the Kingdom of
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heaven likened into a certain
king, which would take account
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of his service, And when he had
begun to reckon, one was brought
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onto him, which owed him 10,000
talents.
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But for as much as he had not to
pay, his Lord commanded him to
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be sold, and his wife and
children, and all that he had,
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and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down
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and worshiped him and said,
Lord, have patience with me, I
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will pay the all very
dramatically, mind you.
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Then the Lord of that servant
was moved with compassion and
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loosed him and forgave the debt.
Now this man owed a debt which
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by my calculations was 200,000
years wages.
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Here’s the calculation.
One talent equals 6000 dinari.
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Right.
Just take my word for that one.
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That’s what Wikipedia says, and
they must be right.
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One dinari equals one day’s
wage.
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We actually have a reference for
that.
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So one talent is 6000 days
wages, which is the equivalent
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of 20 years wages.
So 10,000 talents must be
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200,000 years wages for the
common laborer.
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So it’s been 2000 years since
this parable was given, right?
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So they’re like 1% of the way
there, if they’d worked.
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Every day from the day that
Christ gave the parable till
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now.
So if a yearly wage in that time
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for just a laborer with no skill
would be $15,000 a year.
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You can think of that as $3
billion is how much this man
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owed.
So it’s quite a big debt.
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And he was to be sold into
slavery because he owed such a
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great amount that he could not
repay.
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But he fell down.
He begged for patience.
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To repay the price and the word
I can passion on him, and did
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not give him just more time to
pay, but the Lord actually
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forgave the debt altogether.
Now here’s my question for you,
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would you?
Say that the man in this parable
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was under an obligation before
the Lord forgave the debt.
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That’s an easy one.
Yeah, he was definitely under an
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obligation before the Lord
forgave him.
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But was he under an obligation
after his Lord forgave the debt?
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Now we may be tempted to answer
no, because of course the debt
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was.
Forgiven, wasn’t it?
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But let’s just continue in this.
Parable a little bit picking up
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then.
Where we left off, but the same
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servant went out and found one
of his fellow servants which
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owed him 100 pence.
And he laid hands on him, and
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took him by the throat, and
said, Pay me that thou oest.
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And his fellow servant fell down
at his feet, and besought him,
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saying, I have patience with me,
and I will pay thee all.
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And he would not but when and
cast him into prison, until he
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should pay the debt.
So when his fellow servant saw
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what was done, they were very
sorry, and came and told unto
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their Lord all that was done.
Than the Lord, after that he had
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called him, said unto him, O
thou wicked servant, I forgave
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thee all that debt, because thou
desirest me, Should not thou
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also have had compassion on thy
fellow servant, even as I had
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pity on thee?
And as the Lord was wrath and
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delivered him to the tormentors,
tell he should pay all that was
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due him.
So was the servant under an
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obligation?
Even after the enormous debt was
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forgiven.
What do you think?
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Yeah, he was, wasn’t he?
The quarterly was, because the
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debt was sort of charged to him
again.
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But in the second case, the
obligation was to follow his
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Lord’s example.
See, he was obliged to forgive.
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And in that case, forgiving
really meant suffering some
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financial loss.
So what’s the point of this
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parable?
Why do I take us here?
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Because I think this parable
will illustrates that even after
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the debt is forgiven, there’s
still an obligation.
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The obligation is to be like the
Lord.
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There’s an obligation even for
those who have freedom in
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Christ.
And Paul tells us that our
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obligation, our obligation.
Young people is to suffer.
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OK, so here’s Baptized.
Raise your hand.
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Your obligation is to suffer.
How should we suffer?
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Well, Paul begiarly begins to
answer this suffering question
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in Romans 8 versus 14 through
16.
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So how should we suffer?
Romans 8 and verse 14.
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For as many as are led by the
Spirit of God, these are the
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sons of God.
For you did not receive the
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Spirit of bondage again to fear,
but you received the.
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Spirit of adoption by whom we
crowd of a Father, The spirit
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himself bears witness with our
spirit that were the children of
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God.
OK, so as a starter.
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Paul’s saying to us that our
suffering brings tears, and Paul
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says that we cry out ABBA
father.
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And Paul tells us in the next
verse, which is a little bit
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mysterious, that that is the
spirit bearing witness with our
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spirit that we’re the children
of God.
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OK, now how is our spirit
bearing witness of the spirit of
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God when we cry?
ABBA Father, now I don’t know
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about you.
But I’m a sobby mess.
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I still cry right I if if, if
they play the right hymn on
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Sunday morning, I’m crying.
I can’t even help it.
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But maybe you all are tough
guys.
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You play rugby in this country.
I don’t know you know we we we
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were wear helmets in the states
we’re wimps.
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But but to cry it’s in itself is
it’s natural and it’s very
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human.
But when we cry, that’s our
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spirit.
But my question is not that we
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cry, but what do we cry when we
feel that pain inside we feel.
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That pain inside.
What do we say?
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00:14:38,150 –> 00:14:40,950
What do we do?
For example, do we?
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Do we?
Lash out, do we say?
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Angry or harsh things when we
get to that point.
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I I call it the breaking point
and all.
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Parents in the crowd, you all
know what the breaking point was
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and.
Is we had a breaking point in
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the car on the way here this
morning.
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We all know about the breaking
point and we get to that
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breaking point.
How do we relieve the tension
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and the hurt and the sadness and
the frustration that we feel
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inside?
Do we cry ABBA Father?
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Because when we do cry ABBA
Father, that’s the Spirit of
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God, the Spirit of Christ, the
Son of God, bearing witness with
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our Spirit because.
At that moment when we cry and
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we.
Cry ABBA, Father both our
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spirit.
And the Spirit of Christ are
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actually in perfect unison at
that moment.
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Our emotion has actually joined
perfectly with our faith in
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suffering.
Like Christ.
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You know, perhaps the best
example of this we can think
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about is Jesus in the Garden of
the Gethsemane, now any of us.
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If we were under the pressures
and the strains and the stresses
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of Christ, do you think you’d be
crying?
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I’d be crying, and you each
would also be crying if you had
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to face what Jesus was about to
face and at that moment in the
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00:16:36,530 –> 00:16:40,890
garden.
He cried, Father.
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Not my will be done, but yours.
And you see, that’s the perfect
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00:16:52,530 –> 00:16:59,890
example, he cried.
Not my will be done, but yours.
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And so his spirit bore witness
with the Spirit of God.
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And they’re joined because trust
me.
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00:17:12,720 –> 00:17:16,520
When people feel stressed and
strained and agitated, intense
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and under incredible pressure,
how often do they cry God’s will
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00:17:22,040 –> 00:17:27,400
be done?
How often do they cry ABBA
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Father?
How often instead do they find
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00:17:32,880 –> 00:17:38,080
other methods and Ways and Means
to relieve that tension to give
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00:17:38,080 –> 00:17:40,240
themselves some momentary
comfort?
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00:17:40,820 –> 00:17:43,900
By taking out their pain on
someone else, hurting someone
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else or abusing themselves in
some way or some form.
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00:17:52,820 –> 00:17:56,100
And this word ABBA, as you know,
is a softening of the Hebrew
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word of which means father.
So it’s kind of like daddy.
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And I guess as a father you kind
of get a sense of the small
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child who’s hurting and he’s
crying daddy.
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To you.
And you get the sense in that
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00:18:14,030 –> 00:18:18,350
moment that that our God is not
a distant or aloof God.
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He’s a nurturing God.
He’s the Al Shadai, which means
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the nurturer and perhaps being a
father.
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00:18:28,510 –> 00:18:34,190
Now I understand those words
more because what Paul’s saying
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here is that God is looking at
us like children, like children.
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Like, he really cares.
And he’s not distant from the
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pain.
He’s not distant from our
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00:18:47,370 –> 00:18:51,690
tension or our struggle.
And there’s something I really
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00:18:51,690 –> 00:18:55,210
want to make clear for you.
There’s something I really want
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00:18:55,210 –> 00:18:57,610
to make clear.
So, so pay attention to this.
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This is important, that it’s not
young people.
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That emotion is evil and that.
The righteous thing to do is to
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00:19:09,380 –> 00:19:13,020
stuff up all your emotion and
just pretend it doesn’t exist,
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00:19:13,740 –> 00:19:16,500
and to ignore all your tension
and your agitation and all your
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00:19:16,500 –> 00:19:18,340
passion.
Ignore all that and to live.
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00:19:18,340 –> 00:19:22,220
Like a stoic because that’s the
way to life, because that’s not
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00:19:22,220 –> 00:19:25,340
what I’m saying.
And if you thought that what I
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00:19:25,340 –> 00:19:27,860
was saying, then you’ve got me
wrong because that’s not what
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00:19:27,860 –> 00:19:39,880
I’m saying, what I’m saying.
Is let the Spirit of God that is
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00:19:39,880 –> 00:19:46,320
within you guide you in whatever
the trial, whatever the joy and.
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00:19:46,760 –> 00:19:50,200
Whatever the experience and
whatever the emotion is that,
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00:19:50,200 –> 00:19:56,840
let the Spirit of God guide you.
So when it all becomes too much,
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00:19:58,680 –> 00:20:01,520
you cry.
ABBA, dear God, help me to do
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00:20:01,520 –> 00:20:05,400
your will.
It’s not that emotion is wrong.
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00:20:07,340 –> 00:20:13,700
Is that you yield yourself to
God to do His will.
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00:20:15,340 –> 00:20:19,820
It’s not that emotion is wrong,
but that emotion, when acted
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00:20:19,820 –> 00:20:25,380
upon, could be for your benefit
or for your good, or to hurt
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00:20:25,380 –> 00:20:29,380
others, or for any other purpose
other than God’s will.
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00:20:30,820 –> 00:20:35,220
And what I’m asking of you is to
recognize that for what it is.
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00:20:37,420 –> 00:20:45,380
And yield it to the Father not
to ignore it, because God
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00:20:45,380 –> 00:20:49,860
doesn’t ignore it, does he?
He sends that Angel to his son
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in the garden.
That his son might feel comfort,
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00:20:59,560 –> 00:21:02,560
but we’re in Christ, you say.
Or maybe Paul’s readers were
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00:21:02,560 –> 00:21:04,840
saying.
We’re in Christ, you know, We
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00:21:04,840 –> 00:21:09,480
suffered under the law.
What about this freedom in
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00:21:09,480 –> 00:21:11,320
Christ that you’ve been talking
about, Paul?
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00:21:11,600 –> 00:21:15,240
We’ve suffered before being, you
know, being in Christ.
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00:21:15,240 –> 00:21:17,800
It just seems like we’re
suffering before we’re suffering
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00:21:17,800 –> 00:21:19,320
now.
It’s all just suffering.
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00:21:19,320 –> 00:21:21,560
Paul.
Where’s the benefits?
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00:21:21,680 –> 00:21:23,040
Where’s the benefits of being
in?
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00:21:23,040 –> 00:21:26,440
Christ.
And Paul says, in fact,
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00:21:26,440 –> 00:21:28,880
something really important has
changed when you’re in Christ.
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00:21:30,240 –> 00:21:34,960
And what’s important that has
changed is that now your sons.
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And daughters of God.
No, Okay.
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00:21:40,940 –> 00:21:44,500
What’s the benefit of that you
see?
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00:21:45,140 –> 00:21:47,580
If you think about a sun and you
think about a slave, and you
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00:21:47,580 –> 00:21:51,980
think about, maybe, if you can,
an agrarian lifestyle.
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00:21:53,020 –> 00:21:55,820
See the sun and the slave.
They both go out in the heat of
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00:21:55,820 –> 00:22:00,020
the day to do the work.
They both have to bear that
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00:22:00,020 –> 00:22:04,540
heat, and they’re both fed by
the land and by the master who
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00:22:04,540 –> 00:22:07,280
owns the land.
They’re fed and they’re given
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00:22:07,280 –> 00:22:10,920
water and they’re giving shelter
and so really, why bearing the
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00:22:10,920 –> 00:22:13,840
heat of the day, It doesn’t
really appear very much as if
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00:22:13,840 –> 00:22:17,760
the sun and as a slave are very
different at all, for they’re
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00:22:17,760 –> 00:22:21,280
both working and what’s the
difference?
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00:22:21,280 –> 00:22:26,520
Between the sun and the slave.
Then the difference between the
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00:22:26,520 –> 00:22:30,160
sun and the slave is that the
sun has a hope.
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00:22:32,640 –> 00:22:37,090
The slave knows.
That while working, there will
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00:22:37,090 –> 00:22:42,050
only be work until death.
But the son has a hope for an
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00:22:42,050 –> 00:22:47,570
inheritance.
And so Paul says you’re you’re
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still burying the heat of the
day.
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00:22:50,450 –> 00:22:52,530
There’s still suffering in the
world.
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00:22:53,370 –> 00:22:56,250
God hasn’t taken away the
suffering, not at all.
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And he’s not going to.
The difference is you have a
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hope, your son now.
And to Paul, that is a really,
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00:23:07,180 –> 00:23:11,180
really important.
Difference because it’s not just
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00:23:11,180 –> 00:23:15,300
futile anymore.
But why should we suffer?
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00:23:16,620 –> 00:23:19,660
And maybe you ask the question,
if you have gone through some
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00:23:19,660 –> 00:23:23,100
suffering and some people have
gone through intense personal
340
00:23:23,100 –> 00:23:27,020
suffering and you, you ask
yourself the question, why
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00:23:27,020 –> 00:23:29,860
should I suffer?
And maybe the words come across
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00:23:29,860 –> 00:23:31,260
your lips.
I don’t want to put them in your
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00:23:31,260 –> 00:23:33,540
lips if they aren’t there, but
perhaps they’ve come across your
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00:23:33,540 –> 00:23:35,480
lips.
Why do we suffer?
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00:23:35,720 –> 00:23:41,880
Doesn’t God love us?
And what Paul is really doing
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00:23:41,880 –> 00:23:44,960
is, is he’s really helping us
understand that very question.
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00:23:46,280 –> 00:23:49,120
So there’s actually another
question worth asking before.
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00:23:49,120 –> 00:23:50,080
We go to that.
Question.
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00:23:50,680 –> 00:23:57,680
And that is, are we entitled to
any less suffering because we’re
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00:23:57,680 –> 00:24:01,780
in Christ?
Do you see that?
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00:24:01,780 –> 00:24:04,820
That’s it’s a similar question,
but not exactly the same.
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00:24:06,500 –> 00:24:12,500
Are we entitled to any less
suffering because we’re in
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00:24:12,500 –> 00:24:15,620
Christ Now?
What Paul needs to do is first
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00:24:15,620 –> 00:24:18,340
establish a correct
understanding of suffering, and
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00:24:18,340 –> 00:24:21,900
he really tries to do that
between verses 21 and 23.
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00:24:23,180 –> 00:24:27,500
He’s trying to give us a correct
understanding of suffering, and
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00:24:27,500 –> 00:24:30,180
Paul explains it this way.
And I’ll just summarize briefly.
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00:24:30,950 –> 00:24:34,830
He says, listen, suffering is
just a part of this world.
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00:24:35,030 –> 00:24:39,190
I if you go to any country in
the world from from the Far East
360
00:24:39,350 –> 00:24:43,510
to the far West to the far
north, the far South, there’s
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00:24:43,670 –> 00:24:46,710
death everywhere.
Tell me the country where people
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00:24:46,710 –> 00:24:49,630
live and they don’t die.
Tell the country, tell me the
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00:24:49,630 –> 00:24:51,750
country people live.
And there’s not murder and
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00:24:51,750 –> 00:24:55,510
there’s not stealing, there’s
not selfishness, there’s not
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00:24:55,510 –> 00:25:00,230
disease, says suffering is just
part of this world.
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00:25:01,790 –> 00:25:04,870
He says all of creation groans
in pain.
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00:25:06,630 –> 00:25:10,110
All of creation is under the
bondage of corruption.
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00:25:11,030 –> 00:25:14,750
All of creation is subject to
vanity and that word.
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00:25:14,750 –> 00:25:18,030
Vanity in the King James is
futility and other translations.
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00:25:18,110 –> 00:25:20,830
But really, when you look it up,
it really means misuse.
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00:25:21,540 –> 00:25:25,340
Means creation is not being used
the way God intended it to be
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00:25:25,340 –> 00:25:27,460
used.
God created the world with a
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00:25:27,460 –> 00:25:30,620
purpose, and it’s not being used
for the purpose for which He
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00:25:30,620 –> 00:25:35,260
created it.
It’s being misused, and perhaps
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00:25:35,260 –> 00:25:36,580
the worst.
Form of suffering.
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00:25:38,100 –> 00:25:40,220
According to Paul.
Is that there’s.
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00:25:40,220 –> 00:25:42,380
Waiting.
We’re waiting.
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00:25:42,380 –> 00:25:43,660
We don’t know when it’s going to
end.
379
00:25:44,420 –> 00:25:46,660
We don’t know when our our hopes
going to appear.
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00:25:47,500 –> 00:25:50,710
Romans 8, verse 22.
But we know that the whole
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00:25:50,710 –> 00:25:55,430
creation everywhere, it groans
and travails and pain together
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00:25:55,430 –> 00:25:59,590
until now.
Now the question is that I want
383
00:25:59,590 –> 00:26:02,590
to ask you, and I want you to
think about this, If all
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00:26:02,590 –> 00:26:06,510
creation suffers and groans of
pain because it’s being misused
385
00:26:07,430 –> 00:26:11,670
or subject to vanity, can we
single out our personal
386
00:26:11,670 –> 00:26:14,390
suffering and blame?
God.
387
00:26:17,370 –> 00:26:21,570
If all of creation is subject to
suffering, is subject to misuse,
388
00:26:21,730 –> 00:26:26,290
is being used the way God and
not intended to be used, can I
389
00:26:26,290 –> 00:26:31,530
then take my personal suffering
and single it out and say God’s
390
00:26:31,530 –> 00:26:39,220
to be blamed?
For that it’s an important
391
00:26:39,380 –> 00:26:42,140
question actually, and I want us
to be clear on this because
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00:26:42,140 –> 00:26:48,140
there’s an attitude, there’s an
attitude that underlines this, I
393
00:26:48,140 –> 00:26:53,170
remember in the States at least.
9/11 was such a big deal, and of
394
00:26:54,090 –> 00:26:57,890
course it was globally as well.
And the question really came up
395
00:26:57,930 –> 00:27:01,050
a lot after this horrible
tragedy.
396
00:27:02,330 –> 00:27:06,170
And that question was how could
God allow this to happen?
397
00:27:06,690 –> 00:27:09,210
I don’t know if that question
was asked here in New Zealand,
398
00:27:09,410 –> 00:27:14,010
but especially is very poignant
in the United States, which is a
399
00:27:14,010 –> 00:27:17,890
country that often is considered
to be religious and probably
400
00:27:17,890 –> 00:27:21,710
rightfully so.
How could God allow this to
401
00:27:21,710 –> 00:27:24,070
happen?
But there’s an attitude
402
00:27:24,070 –> 00:27:28,390
underlying that question, and
that attitude is this.
403
00:27:30,430 –> 00:27:37,270
It’s that as humans, we’re
entitled to a good life, and
404
00:27:37,270 –> 00:27:41,670
that God is accountable and
actually should be questioned
405
00:27:41,790 –> 00:27:45,550
for anything that disrupts that
good life.
406
00:27:50,250 –> 00:27:54,130
That’s that attitude.
That actually all of us, we’re
407
00:27:54,130 –> 00:27:57,130
entitled to happiness.
We’re entitled.
408
00:27:57,130 –> 00:28:00,690
To a Good Wife.
It’s your human right to have a
409
00:28:00,690 –> 00:28:04,370
Good Wife.
And that if anything disrupts
410
00:28:04,370 –> 00:28:08,810
that Good Wife, whether it be
disease or pain or tragedy of
411
00:28:08,810 –> 00:28:12,570
any type of any sort, then God
is accountable to us.
412
00:28:13,930 –> 00:28:22,730
To explain why we have not had
The Good Wife we deserve, I ask
413
00:28:22,730 –> 00:28:26,530
you do you really think that’s
the right attitude?
414
00:28:29,890 –> 00:28:32,850
And actually, what Paul’s
putting forward is an
415
00:28:32,850 –> 00:28:38,810
alternative way of thinking.
He’s actually saying that the
416
00:28:38,810 –> 00:28:41,610
father loves you.
Like a child.
417
00:28:44,580 –> 00:28:49,780
If suffering is a consequence of
sin, and suffering is the way of
418
00:28:49,780 –> 00:28:54,380
the sinful and misused world,
we’re not entitled to a life
419
00:28:54,380 –> 00:28:58,100
free from suffering, and no man
is entitled to a life free from
420
00:28:58,100 –> 00:29:00,460
suffering and no human being on
this planet.
421
00:29:00,460 –> 00:29:03,620
Today will have a life free from
suffering.
422
00:29:05,380 –> 00:29:10,900
What are we given instead?
Instead, we’re given hope.
423
00:29:13,690 –> 00:29:19,050
So though, no matter what the
suffering is, we’re not going to
424
00:29:19,050 –> 00:29:24,610
lose the love of God.
And therefore, according to
425
00:29:24,610 –> 00:29:28,650
Paul, God is not to be blamed
for suffering.
426
00:29:30,530 –> 00:29:34,210
God is to be thanked for
providing hope.
427
00:29:35,730 –> 00:29:38,690
Do you see how miles apart those
two things are?
428
00:29:40,570 –> 00:29:42,850
God is not to be blamed for
suffering.
429
00:29:44,970 –> 00:29:52,050
God is to be thanked that
there’s hope, and that hope is
430
00:29:52,050 –> 00:29:54,170
bigger than you.
It’s bigger than me.
431
00:29:54,170 –> 00:29:58,690
It’s bigger than our problems.
That hope is for God’s glory to
432
00:29:58,690 –> 00:30:01,010
be revealed in us and in all the
world.
433
00:30:02,130 –> 00:30:06,170
And when God’s glory is in all
the world, then suffering will
434
00:30:06,170 –> 00:30:16,400
end.
So picking up in verse 23, we
435
00:30:16,400 –> 00:30:22,120
read about one particular
important type of suffering, and
436
00:30:22,120 –> 00:30:25,000
that’s the suffering which is
waiting.
437
00:30:30,520 –> 00:30:34,400
Not only that Paul says, but we
also have the first fruits of
438
00:30:34,400 –> 00:30:37,960
the Spirit.
Even we ourselves grown within
439
00:30:37,960 –> 00:30:44,640
ourselves, eagerly waiting.
For the adoption, the redemption
440
00:30:45,360 –> 00:30:49,650
of our body.
It really made me pause.
441
00:30:50,730 –> 00:30:52,410
Really thought hard about this
verse.
442
00:30:53,410 –> 00:30:59,570
Do I thought hard about?
I thought hard about whether or
443
00:30:59,570 –> 00:31:07,370
not waiting is in fact suffering
for me.
444
00:31:09,290 –> 00:31:11,370
So I guess I’ll pose the
question to you.
445
00:31:13,490 –> 00:31:24,010
Is waiting for the adoption?
Suffering for you, maybe.
446
00:31:24,010 –> 00:31:25,610
It doesn’t seem much like
suffering.
447
00:31:28,130 –> 00:31:31,770
And if that’s the case, I think
you should pause and think for a
448
00:31:31,770 –> 00:31:40,490
moment, because that probably
means that to some extent, to
449
00:31:40,490 –> 00:31:46,730
some measure, you’re actually
finding your reward in this
450
00:31:46,730 –> 00:31:51,670
world.
You’re finding your reward in
451
00:31:51,670 –> 00:32:00,110
this world and that’s satisfying
you and so doesn’t really feel
452
00:32:00,110 –> 00:32:06,430
like much like pain doesn’t feel
very bad at all to wait, kind of
453
00:32:06,430 –> 00:32:08,550
like what’s going on.
Kind of like the world.
454
00:32:09,230 –> 00:32:13,790
Kind of love the world now, I
ask you.
455
00:32:15,190 –> 00:32:24,470
What if your reward in the world
is taken away and there’s
456
00:32:24,470 –> 00:32:29,070
sadness about that?
Who are you going to blame?
457
00:32:31,350 –> 00:32:36,310
Will you blame God if whatever
in the world you’re finding so
458
00:32:36,310 –> 00:32:40,390
satisfying is taken away, Will
you blame God that that was
459
00:32:40,390 –> 00:32:42,670
taken away?
Your reward in this world?
460
00:32:46,310 –> 00:32:47,950
And Paul was really saying that
for.
461
00:32:47,950 –> 00:32:52,470
Those that wait.
They’re comforted by something,
462
00:32:53,110 –> 00:32:58,670
and what they’re comforted by is
they’re comforted by a hope, and
463
00:32:58,670 –> 00:33:00,230
they’re hoping for something
better.
464
00:33:02,910 –> 00:33:08,790
And versus 24 and 25, Paul says
This we were saved in this hope.
465
00:33:09,490 –> 00:33:11,690
But hope that is seen is is not
hope.
466
00:33:11,690 –> 00:33:15,050
For why does one still hope for
what he sees, but we hope for
467
00:33:15,050 –> 00:33:18,930
what we do not see.
Then we eagerly wait.
468
00:33:20,410 –> 00:33:24,730
For it with perseverance.
If you’re going to have hope,
469
00:33:24,770 –> 00:33:29,130
you got to be waiting if you’re
actually getting your reward in
470
00:33:29,130 –> 00:33:33,490
this world.
If you’re getting your reward in
471
00:33:33,490 –> 00:33:36,170
this world, you’re actually not
waiting for anything.
472
00:33:37,030 –> 00:33:39,270
And I’d also say to you, you.
Probably don’t have a lot of
473
00:33:39,270 –> 00:33:42,670
hope because why would you have
hope for something you’re
474
00:33:42,670 –> 00:33:44,750
already seeing and you’re
already experiencing.
475
00:33:47,150 –> 00:33:51,350
But to Paul, now this, by the
way, this challenged me, this,
476
00:33:51,350 –> 00:33:54,510
this little bit, this really
just really challenged me.
477
00:33:54,670 –> 00:33:58,430
So you have to know that every
question I ask you, I’ve already
478
00:33:58,430 –> 00:34:02,630
asked myself.
And if it’s hard for you, it was
479
00:34:02,630 –> 00:34:06,860
hard for me.
But I can’t But look at the text
480
00:34:06,980 –> 00:34:14,340
and tell you what it says.
And if you get your reward from
481
00:34:14,340 –> 00:34:17,260
this world, then you can see it
and you’re not waiting for it.
482
00:34:17,260 –> 00:34:19,020
And I.
Ask you then where is your hope?
483
00:34:20,300 –> 00:34:28,900
And it probably isn’t a very big
hope now.
484
00:34:29,139 –> 00:34:31,260
Where does hope?
Come from exactly.
485
00:34:33,080 –> 00:34:35,320
Where do we get hope?
What if we want to fill
486
00:34:35,320 –> 00:34:39,000
ourselves up with some hope?
You know, refue ourselves with
487
00:34:39,000 –> 00:34:40,320
some hope?
Where do we get that hope?
488
00:34:41,000 –> 00:34:45,320
Now I tell you what.
Do you know how you get it?
489
00:34:46,000 –> 00:34:48,080
Do you know you get this hope
that maybe you don’t have enough
490
00:34:48,080 –> 00:34:50,159
of?
Do you know how you get that
491
00:34:50,159 –> 00:34:56,320
hope?
Do The answer is is you suffer?
492
00:35:00,950 –> 00:35:02,910
All makes perfect sense.
Just turn to Romans 5.
493
00:35:03,710 –> 00:35:12,060
Come on, turn on Romans 5.
How do we get this hope?
494
00:35:12,540 –> 00:35:14,340
We want to throw ourselves a
little bit more hope.
495
00:35:14,580 –> 00:35:18,180
How do I get that hope?
I don’t want to find my reward
496
00:35:18,180 –> 00:35:21,220
in this world.
I don’t want to be so satisfied
497
00:35:21,220 –> 00:35:23,660
with this world.
I don’t want to blame God when
498
00:35:23,660 –> 00:35:25,580
the rewards of this world are
taken away from me.
499
00:35:25,900 –> 00:35:27,700
I want hope.
How do I get that hope?
500
00:35:28,460 –> 00:35:32,980
Paul says Rooms 5, first one,
therefore being justified by
501
00:35:32,980 –> 00:35:36,270
faith.
We have peace with God through
502
00:35:36,310 –> 00:35:41,150
our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
we have access by faith and to
503
00:35:41,150 –> 00:35:45,990
the grace wherein we stand and
rejoice in the hope of the glory
504
00:35:45,990 –> 00:35:48,670
of God.
This is the part to pay
505
00:35:48,670 –> 00:35:53,190
attention to, and not only so,
but we glory and tribulation
506
00:35:53,190 –> 00:35:57,830
also, and suffering, knowing
that tribulation work with
507
00:35:57,830 –> 00:36:04,070
patience and patience,
experience and experience.
508
00:36:05,680 –> 00:36:13,440
Hope and hope maketh not
ashamed, because the love of God
509
00:36:13,440 –> 00:36:17,360
is shed abroad in our hearts by
the Holy Spirit which is given
510
00:36:17,360 –> 00:36:19,360
unto us.
So you want some more of this
511
00:36:19,360 –> 00:36:21,680
hope?
You’d like to have some more
512
00:36:21,680 –> 00:36:25,600
hope in your life.
How are you going to get that
513
00:36:25,600 –> 00:36:27,960
hope?
I’ll tell you.
514
00:36:29,640 –> 00:36:36,640
Going to suffer.
Now, how do we know they’re not
515
00:36:36,640 –> 00:36:38,000
going to be disappointed by
hope?
516
00:36:39,360 –> 00:36:41,600
How do we know hope is not going
to disappoint us?
517
00:36:43,840 –> 00:36:45,640
Paul says.
The tribulation work with
518
00:36:45,640 –> 00:36:48,400
patience and patience,
endurance, endurance, hope.
519
00:36:50,160 –> 00:36:55,280
So perhaps for you and I,
actually the world suffers, but
520
00:36:55,280 –> 00:36:57,680
you and I need to suffer a
little bit more than the world
521
00:37:00,080 –> 00:37:02,360
because suffering actually helps
us.
522
00:37:03,220 –> 00:37:07,380
To understand that putting hope
in this world is no hope at all.
523
00:37:09,820 –> 00:37:13,100
In this way, suffering brings us
to the love of Christ, because
524
00:37:14,740 –> 00:37:20,020
we realize that the love of
Christ can never disappoint us.
525
00:37:20,180 –> 00:37:24,100
You know, whatever you find in
this world that you love, I love
526
00:37:24,100 –> 00:37:26,020
my wife.
She could be taken from me.
527
00:37:27,020 –> 00:37:29,380
I love my children.
They could be taken from me.
528
00:37:30,260 –> 00:37:32,980
Disease or or accidents or
whatever it is.
529
00:37:33,140 –> 00:37:35,620
I love my job.
That could be taken from me.
530
00:37:36,220 –> 00:37:38,980
I love my economic security that
could be taken from me.
531
00:37:39,140 –> 00:37:42,500
Anything I put hope in this
world can be taken from me.
532
00:37:43,460 –> 00:37:45,180
What about our brethren and
Iran?
533
00:37:46,740 –> 00:37:51,660
Everything has been taken from
them, even their dignity.
534
00:37:54,500 –> 00:37:57,220
But you know it can never be
taken from you.
535
00:37:59,850 –> 00:38:02,130
But you know it can never be
taken from you.
536
00:38:02,530 –> 00:38:04,650
That will never make you
ashamed.
537
00:38:05,450 –> 00:38:12,170
You can never lose it.
No one could ever take it away.
538
00:38:13,610 –> 00:38:18,290
It’s the love of Christ.
So it will never disappoint you
539
00:38:21,290 –> 00:38:26,730
because it’s the one thing that
no disease and no accident and
540
00:38:26,730 –> 00:38:29,820
no tragedy.
And no difficulty and no
541
00:38:29,820 –> 00:38:33,580
suffering at all can take away.
Suffering will take away all.
542
00:38:33,580 –> 00:38:38,260
Those other things.
But I can’t take away the love
543
00:38:38,260 –> 00:38:45,420
of Christ.
And so suffering brings us to
544
00:38:45,420 –> 00:38:51,700
hope because we realize the one
thing that endures, the one
545
00:38:51,700 –> 00:38:56,060
thing that endures eternally, is
the love of Christ.
546
00:38:57,750 –> 00:38:59,430
It’s the one thing that won’t
disappoint.
547
00:39:01,350 –> 00:39:06,190
Now what is this amazing source
of hope for Paul?
548
00:39:06,310 –> 00:39:09,950
How does Paul get this hope?
It’s not suffering.
549
00:39:09,950 –> 00:39:13,110
And given that he had the hope
and suffering brings him to a
550
00:39:13,110 –> 00:39:14,950
greater hope.
But where’s the hope come from?
551
00:39:15,070 –> 00:39:18,550
Turns with me to Romans 15.
This is a great cross reference.
552
00:39:18,550 –> 00:39:22,510
Market in your market in your
margin, Romans 15.
553
00:39:30,250 –> 00:39:38,550
And read with me verse four, are
we all there?
554
00:39:39,590 –> 00:39:46,030
For whatsoever things were
written before, were written for
555
00:39:46,030 –> 00:39:52,390
our learning that we through
patience and the comfort of the
556
00:39:52,390 –> 00:39:55,590
scriptures.
Might have hope.
557
00:39:59,760 –> 00:40:02,760
You think I’m just bringing up
this Bible reading thing because
558
00:40:03,080 –> 00:40:04,640
it’s my own little personal
thing.
559
00:40:08,600 –> 00:40:17,040
What is Paul’s source of hope?
It’s the comfort of the
560
00:40:17,040 –> 00:40:21,320
Scriptures and the patience of
the Scriptures.
561
00:40:22,120 –> 00:40:25,160
That’s how he gets hope.
And you know what?
562
00:40:25,160 –> 00:40:27,080
I don’t know how to be subtle
here, so I’m going to kind of
563
00:40:27,080 –> 00:40:29,360
just try to be blunt.
I don’t have a problem with
564
00:40:29,360 –> 00:40:30,160
blunt.
I’m good at Blunt.
565
00:40:32,480 –> 00:40:38,920
And the blunt point is that if
you don’t read the Bible and
566
00:40:38,920 –> 00:40:46,240
talk about the Bible and discuss
your faith that you’ll lose that
567
00:40:46,240 –> 00:40:48,840
hope.
You just will.
568
00:40:52,840 –> 00:40:57,280
And Paul says here that.
In all his sufferings and all
569
00:40:57,280 –> 00:41:00,800
the things he’s had to endure
that it was the.
570
00:41:00,800 –> 00:41:08,840
Scriptures that gave him hope.
It can produce in you.
571
00:41:10,120 –> 00:41:14,880
A love of Christ which no one
can take away and which
572
00:41:14,880 –> 00:41:18,760
suffering will only make
stronger.
573
00:41:21,240 –> 00:41:23,000
Suffering will only make
stronger.
574
00:41:28,610 –> 00:41:34,210
And so, back in Romans 8, Paul
speaks and clarifies for us in
575
00:41:34,210 –> 00:41:38,210
more clear terms what that hope
really is.
576
00:41:38,250 –> 00:41:40,410
What is that hope?
What is he hoping?
577
00:41:40,410 –> 00:41:45,050
For I should say.
And Romans 8IN verse 28.
578
00:41:45,330 –> 00:41:47,130
Paul talks about what he hopes
for.
579
00:41:49,530 –> 00:41:52,610
Reading out of the King James
Version and we know.
580
00:41:53,390 –> 00:41:57,590
That all things work together
for good to them that love God,
581
00:41:57,590 –> 00:41:59,470
who are called according to his
purpose.
582
00:42:00,670 –> 00:42:06,190
For whom he did for know he also
did predestinate to be conformed
583
00:42:06,310 –> 00:42:11,230
to the image of his Son, that he
might be the first born among
584
00:42:11,230 –> 00:42:14,750
many brethren, And moreover,
whom he did predestinate, then
585
00:42:14,750 –> 00:42:16,150
he.
Called and he called.
586
00:42:16,790 –> 00:42:19,070
He also justified and he
justified them he also
587
00:42:19,070 –> 00:42:22,230
glorified.
Now what are those verses mean?
588
00:42:22,940 –> 00:42:24,780
Why does Paul?
Talk about those verses.
589
00:42:25,180 –> 00:42:28,060
How do those clarify for for us
what the hope is?
590
00:42:29,660 –> 00:42:31,580
I’ll tell you what these verses
are there to do.
591
00:42:32,900 –> 00:42:36,180
What these verses are there to
do and demonstrate for you is
592
00:42:36,180 –> 00:42:42,620
that your hope?
Your hope can come with
593
00:42:42,620 –> 00:42:47,020
tremendous confidence.
You can have confidence in that
594
00:42:47,020 –> 00:42:47,900
hope.
Do you know why?
595
00:42:48,460 –> 00:42:51,380
Because Paul has said that God
has known you since he created
596
00:42:51,380 –> 00:42:56,000
the first human being.
Since Paul, Paul says since
597
00:42:56,120 –> 00:43:01,200
since God created the first man,
he’s known those who are his.
598
00:43:02,800 –> 00:43:08,440
And not only has he known them
that he’s predestined them, that
599
00:43:08,440 –> 00:43:13,200
they would be in the image of
his son and he has his son
600
00:43:13,320 –> 00:43:16,560
Jesus.
And remember that Adam made a
601
00:43:16,560 –> 00:43:20,760
son in his likeness.
Adam made Seth and his likeness
602
00:43:20,840 –> 00:43:23,780
and after his image.
And there you have Christ in the
603
00:43:23,820 –> 00:43:28,660
image of God, and he’s trying to
make each one of his sons and
604
00:43:28,660 –> 00:43:31,940
his daughters into the image of
Christ, to be born after the
605
00:43:31,940 –> 00:43:34,580
image of Christ.
And think this was God’s purpose
606
00:43:34,580 –> 00:43:36,740
from the beginning.
And he knew who was his.
607
00:43:36,980 –> 00:43:41,900
He knew you before you were
born, And he has been working
608
00:43:41,900 –> 00:43:45,420
with you to bring you to the
point where you are conformed to
609
00:43:45,420 –> 00:43:48,940
that image of his Son, that you
would be a son and daughter of
610
00:43:48,940 –> 00:43:54,640
God.
He’s destined you to be his.
611
00:43:55,840 –> 00:43:59,880
You are not an accident.
Sometimes you look around the
612
00:43:59,880 –> 00:44:04,360
room and you think to yourself,
well, I can see that God’s.
613
00:44:04,360 –> 00:44:08,200
Calling him and him and her.
But you know what?
614
00:44:09,880 –> 00:44:13,040
I think I was just kind of.
I think I was just kind of an
615
00:44:13,040 –> 00:44:16,620
accident, you know, like.
Like the Angel said, well, this
616
00:44:16,620 –> 00:44:19,060
is a reject.
But you know, OK, pass it
617
00:44:19,060 –> 00:44:22,500
through, you know, and if and
you get the sense that you’re a
618
00:44:22,500 –> 00:44:25,500
fraud.
Maybe everyone else has this
619
00:44:25,500 –> 00:44:27,780
figured out, But I’m a fraud.
I’m personally a fraud.
620
00:44:30,780 –> 00:44:32,460
I don’t know why God’s working
with me.
621
00:44:33,700 –> 00:44:35,540
I don’t know if the angels
really do care.
622
00:44:36,900 –> 00:44:40,460
Maybe I’m just here by accident.
Maybe it’s all just an accident.
623
00:44:41,620 –> 00:44:47,270
Why me?
There’s a lot of selfishness in
624
00:44:47,270 –> 00:44:49,030
that, those words.
Why me, by the way?
625
00:44:50,590 –> 00:44:52,190
So a lot of selfishness in those
words.
626
00:44:53,070 –> 00:44:57,790
Because God doesn’t merely want
you, He wants you to reflect
627
00:44:57,790 –> 00:45:01,030
him.
You probably can’t do a lot for
628
00:45:01,030 –> 00:45:06,830
God, but God can do a whole heck
of a lot through you.
629
00:45:06,830 –> 00:45:11,350
If you’d let him.
If you’d let him.
630
00:45:14,040 –> 00:45:18,200
And God knows.
And you’re here because he knows
631
00:45:18,360 –> 00:45:23,000
that if you let him, he can do
tremendous good.
632
00:45:26,120 –> 00:45:33,800
If you let God work through you,
if you actually let him put his
633
00:45:33,840 –> 00:45:38,720
image and likeness on you, he
can do tremendous good.
634
00:45:40,710 –> 00:45:44,310
He doesn’t want you.
He doesn’t want me.
635
00:45:46,590 –> 00:45:51,470
He wants him in you.
He wants himself in me.
636
00:45:53,190 –> 00:45:55,230
He wants me to change, to be
like him.
637
00:45:57,510 –> 00:46:02,630
So never doubt what God can do
through you, only question
638
00:46:02,630 –> 00:46:07,450
whether you’re letting him.
And what Paul is saying is that
639
00:46:07,450 –> 00:46:11,210
hope is sure you are not an
accident, you are not a fraud,
640
00:46:11,370 –> 00:46:17,330
you are here on purpose.
And that God has known you from
641
00:46:17,330 –> 00:46:20,890
the beginning and he has been
working to change you into the
642
00:46:20,890 –> 00:46:23,530
image of his son and he’s still
working and he’s not going to
643
00:46:23,530 –> 00:46:26,730
give up and so.
Paul says that.
644
00:46:26,730 –> 00:46:35,050
Hope is a sure hope is a sure
hope is a hope which will not
645
00:46:35,050 –> 00:46:40,100
disappoint.
And Paul says not only that, but
646
00:46:40,100 –> 00:46:42,860
I am saved by that hope, Paul
says.
647
00:46:44,980 –> 00:46:50,460
And Paul is willing to suffer.
Because the Paul you understand
648
00:46:50,660 –> 00:46:55,740
that suffering is just nothing.
It’s just nothing in comparison
649
00:46:55,940 –> 00:46:58,540
to the hope.
I don’t think the world sees it
650
00:46:58,540 –> 00:47:00,220
that way.
I think most people see
651
00:47:00,220 –> 00:47:09,420
suffering in relation to hope.
That’s the Wellington skyline, I
652
00:47:09,420 –> 00:47:11,940
guess, taken from my a boat out
in the harbor.
653
00:47:13,780 –> 00:47:15,500
I think people see things this
way.
654
00:47:15,500 –> 00:47:18,900
They can see, you know, I can
have.
655
00:47:19,900 –> 00:47:22,220
It’s one of the riches of the
world and all these wonderful
656
00:47:22,220 –> 00:47:25,340
things and expensive things and
nice things.
657
00:47:26,900 –> 00:47:32,470
Or I could suffer for Christ.
They see the suffering for
658
00:47:32,470 –> 00:47:34,590
Christ in relation to the world
and its riches.
659
00:47:34,590 –> 00:47:35,950
And they say this is a tough
call.
660
00:47:35,950 –> 00:47:37,310
I don’t know which one should I
want?
661
00:47:37,630 –> 00:47:42,430
Should I want all the world has
to offer me or should I want to
662
00:47:42,430 –> 00:47:44,470
suffer for Christ.
And they and they see this as
663
00:47:44,470 –> 00:47:47,150
this contrast.
But you don’t, Paul actually he
664
00:47:47,150 –> 00:47:50,310
never saw things this way.
This is not the way Paul sees
665
00:47:50,310 –> 00:47:51,590
things.
It’s not the way he’s making
666
00:47:51,590 –> 00:47:55,310
decision.
Because to the Paul, to Paul the
667
00:47:55,310 –> 00:47:58,720
world is suffering.
That anything that he could
668
00:47:58,720 –> 00:48:01,920
possibly get in this world can
be taken away from him, or he
669
00:48:01,920 –> 00:48:05,200
could die and he loses it.
Then that the whole world is
670
00:48:05,200 –> 00:48:08,080
subject to misuse, the whole
world is subject to vanity.
671
00:48:08,680 –> 00:48:15,800
That the world is suffering.
And so to Paul, it’s nothing.
672
00:48:16,880 –> 00:48:21,840
He sees it as done.
He counts the world as done.
673
00:48:22,880 –> 00:48:27,780
It counts nothing for him.
Because it’s only suffering.
674
00:48:27,780 –> 00:48:30,500
And in fact he doesn’t even see
it as done.
675
00:48:34,460 –> 00:48:39,220
He sees it as irreversible
death.
676
00:48:40,740 –> 00:48:45,540
And so to Paul.
The real comparison, it’s not
677
00:48:45,540 –> 00:48:48,100
between the world and its riches
and its wonders and all the
678
00:48:48,100 –> 00:48:49,620
wonderful things that can give
him.
679
00:48:50,180 –> 00:48:53,380
That’s not the comparison for
Paul.
680
00:48:54,540 –> 00:49:00,890
The comparison.
Is suffering with a hope or
681
00:49:00,970 –> 00:49:04,010
irreversible death?
And I don’t think Paul thinks
682
00:49:04,010 –> 00:49:06,370
about suffering.
I think Paul sees it this way.
683
00:49:08,690 –> 00:49:13,170
I think Paul sees it as
irreversible death versus the
684
00:49:13,170 –> 00:49:17,010
glories of the Kingdom.
Do you think the world sees it
685
00:49:17,010 –> 00:49:19,890
this way?
But you know what if you if you
686
00:49:19,890 –> 00:49:22,920
think about it.
As as the as the wonderful
687
00:49:22,920 –> 00:49:24,240
things the world has to offer
you.
688
00:49:24,440 –> 00:49:27,840
Or suffering for Christ?
Well, that’s a hard.
689
00:49:27,840 –> 00:49:28,800
Way to make a decision.
It’s.
690
00:49:30,160 –> 00:49:31,840
Going to be real.
Hard for you to choose, to set
691
00:49:31,840 –> 00:49:33,000
your mind on things of the
Spirit.
692
00:49:33,000 –> 00:49:37,480
That way if you if you see
things in that light, it’s going
693
00:49:37,480 –> 00:49:39,280
to be real hard for you to make
decisions.
694
00:49:40,520 –> 00:49:44,360
But if you see it in the light
that Paul sees it, if you, if
695
00:49:44,360 –> 00:49:47,360
you can, put yourself in his
position as he’s writing these
696
00:49:47,360 –> 00:49:49,820
things.
And you see it this way.
697
00:49:50,140 –> 00:49:52,140
Boy, it’s a lot easier to make
decisions, isn’t it?
698
00:49:53,660 –> 00:49:59,860
Such subtle change of thinking.
And we look back at the parable
699
00:49:59,860 –> 00:50:04,900
we started with and we see a man
forgiven a very large debt.
700
00:50:06,900 –> 00:50:09,500
And that servant was under an
obligation, even though the debt
701
00:50:09,500 –> 00:50:11,660
was forgiven.
And that obligation was in a
702
00:50:11,660 –> 00:50:16,000
sense to be like his Lord.
The obligation was to forgive
703
00:50:16,040 –> 00:50:17,080
and.
For and and.
704
00:50:17,200 –> 00:50:21,520
Not only to forgive but to
suffer the loss of wealth and
705
00:50:21,520 –> 00:50:24,200
the parable itself is prompted
by a question by Peter.
706
00:50:24,440 –> 00:50:26,560
And Peter asked Jesus this
question.
707
00:50:27,800 –> 00:50:29,560
Then Peter came to Jesus and
said Lord.
708
00:50:29,680 –> 00:50:33,000
How off shall I shall my brother
sin against me?
709
00:50:34,160 –> 00:50:36,640
And I forgive him until seven
times?
710
00:50:37,920 –> 00:50:42,000
And Jesus said unto him, Say not
unto thee until seven times, but
711
00:50:42,000 –> 00:50:45,100
until 70 * 7.
This Peter, I want to tell you a
712
00:50:45,100 –> 00:50:51,340
story, story about a man with a
very large debt, and you’ll
713
00:50:51,340 –> 00:50:55,260
remember from that story.
That the man that owed the very
714
00:50:55,260 –> 00:50:59,580
large debt, he owed 10,000
talents and we talked about
715
00:50:59,580 –> 00:51:02,140
10,000 talents.
That was probably 200,000 years
716
00:51:02,500 –> 00:51:10,300
of Labor, such that if a man had
worked from the day of Jesus
717
00:51:10,300 –> 00:51:12,540
till now, he’d be 1% done paying
the debt.
718
00:51:16,730 –> 00:51:19,770
Now, why would Jesus choose such
an impressively large amount?
719
00:51:19,770 –> 00:51:22,690
Now he chooses that large amount
because it’s an impressively
720
00:51:22,690 –> 00:51:26,050
large amount.
It’s also the largest number the
721
00:51:26,050 –> 00:51:29,490
Greeks really had.
But there’s another reason he
722
00:51:29,490 –> 00:51:31,290
chooses this impressively large
amount.
723
00:51:31,970 –> 00:51:36,410
Can someone think of a time or
story in the Bible where 10,000
724
00:51:36,410 –> 00:51:40,930
talents comes up?
Who said it?
725
00:51:43,460 –> 00:51:47,140
Very good.
You turn to Esther, Chapter 3
726
00:51:47,140 –> 00:51:53,580
versus 8:00 and 9:00.
We’ll read about this
727
00:51:53,580 –> 00:51:56,820
impressively large debt.
Of course, not a debt.
728
00:51:56,820 –> 00:52:05,740
In this case, 10,000 talents,
200,000 years of Labor.
729
00:52:06,460 –> 00:52:10,740
Esther, Chapter 3 and verses
8:00 and 9:00.
730
00:52:16,120 –> 00:52:19,640
Then Hayman said to King
Hajueris.
731
00:52:20,760 –> 00:52:23,160
There’s a certain people
scattered and dispersed among
732
00:52:23,160 –> 00:52:25,400
all the.
People in all the provinces of
733
00:52:25,400 –> 00:52:29,200
your Kingdom.
Their laws are different from
734
00:52:29,240 –> 00:52:33,200
all the other peoples and they
do not keep the King’s.
735
00:52:33,200 –> 00:52:37,520
Laws.
Therefore, it is not fitting for
736
00:52:37,520 –> 00:52:44,140
the king to let them remain.
If it pleases the king, let a
737
00:52:44,140 –> 00:52:47,540
decree be written that they be
destroyed.
738
00:52:48,860 –> 00:52:56,500
And I will pay 10,000 talents of
silver into the hands of those
739
00:52:56,500 –> 00:52:59,460
who do the work.
To bring it into the King’s
740
00:52:59,460 –> 00:53:08,460
treasuries.
Now imagine forgiving a
741
00:53:08,460 –> 00:53:10,970
character.
Such as Heyman.
742
00:53:14,930 –> 00:53:21,450
Imagine not blaming God if you
heard there was a decree issued
743
00:53:22,370 –> 00:53:25,130
from the king ordering your
death.
744
00:53:27,530 –> 00:53:29,610
In fact, I can’t even go there
in my head.
745
00:53:30,410 –> 00:53:33,490
I can’t even imagine what that
would feel like.
746
00:53:34,090 –> 00:53:37,330
I can’t even imagine the
bitterness I would have over
747
00:53:37,330 –> 00:53:46,690
such a decree.
How would you respond to
748
00:53:46,690 –> 00:53:49,530
suffering like this?
Inflicted by man like Haman?
749
00:53:51,770 –> 00:53:57,410
You know, forgiveness.
Forgiveness is a hard thing to
750
00:53:57,410 –> 00:54:00,890
give, All right?
Forgiveness basically means,
751
00:54:01,290 –> 00:54:04,890
yeah, I’m not going to get.
Back whatever was done to you.
752
00:54:05,050 –> 00:54:07,880
You’re not going to get back.
You’re not going to punish that
753
00:54:07,880 –> 00:54:09,320
person.
You’re not going to hurt that
754
00:54:09,320 –> 00:54:11,320
person.
You’re not going to get the debt
755
00:54:11,320 –> 00:54:19,560
repaid.
It’s difficult, you know.
756
00:54:19,640 –> 00:54:22,000
And I I bring this up because
Paul asked this important
757
00:54:22,000 –> 00:54:25,280
question in Rome, is he says,
who can separate you from the
758
00:54:25,280 –> 00:54:30,400
love of Christ?
But the reason I bring this up
759
00:54:30,400 –> 00:54:32,120
is because I want to ask you
this question.
760
00:54:33,800 –> 00:54:39,120
What if you don’t forgive?
What if you don’t forgive?
761
00:54:41,040 –> 00:54:42,920
See when you don’t forgive.
Another person.
762
00:54:44,240 –> 00:54:50,040
Or if you don’t forgive God.
Excuse me for saying that, but
763
00:54:50,040 –> 00:54:57,160
if you don’t forgive God for
whatever suffering you’ve gone
764
00:54:57,160 –> 00:55:02,760
through, anger and resentment
will build up in you.
765
00:55:03,910 –> 00:55:06,950
And you continue to feel this
pain and its torment, and you
766
00:55:06,990 –> 00:55:08,750
agonize over what you’ve gone
through.
767
00:55:08,990 –> 00:55:13,110
And in order to distance
yourself from that pain, you
768
00:55:13,110 –> 00:55:16,270
start to blame.
Because blame is a really good
769
00:55:16,270 –> 00:55:18,950
tool to protect yourself from
pain.
770
00:55:18,950 –> 00:55:23,150
You see, the whole world gets a
lot simpler when it’s someone
771
00:55:23,150 –> 00:55:27,510
else’s fault, and it’s a very
natural defense.
772
00:55:29,590 –> 00:55:32,190
But why would someone else
hurting us?
773
00:55:33,120 –> 00:55:36,240
Separate us from Christ’s love.
Why would someone else hurting
774
00:55:36,240 –> 00:55:38,520
us separate us from Christ’s
love?
775
00:55:39,840 –> 00:55:41,920
Who here has had someone in the
meeting hurt them?
776
00:55:44,200 –> 00:55:46,080
Very few.
I’m really impressed.
777
00:55:46,680 –> 00:55:47,640
Young people.
Just wait.
778
00:55:49,200 –> 00:55:54,280
Just wait.
All you old people, if you
779
00:55:54,280 –> 00:55:55,320
haven’t.
Had someone hurt you in the
780
00:55:55,320 –> 00:55:55,920
meeting?
I’m in.
781
00:55:55,920 –> 00:56:01,440
Truly, truly thankful for you.
I am only 32 and I’ve had people
782
00:56:01,440 –> 00:56:06,120
in the meeting hurt me.
What happens if I don’t forgive
783
00:56:06,120 –> 00:56:09,000
them?
What if I let resentment build
784
00:56:09,000 –> 00:56:12,240
up inside of me?
What if I say I’m not going to
785
00:56:12,240 –> 00:56:15,440
come to meeting because that
person’s going to be there,
786
00:56:18,120 –> 00:56:21,040
where we say I’m not going to go
to activity because that
787
00:56:21,040 –> 00:56:24,040
person’s there.
I’m not going to minister
788
00:56:24,120 –> 00:56:25,480
because that person might be
there.
789
00:56:26,080 –> 00:56:28,000
That person speaking, I don’t
want to hear anything.
790
00:56:28,000 –> 00:56:29,480
They.
Have to say, I’m not going to
791
00:56:29,480 –> 00:56:31,200
support the meeting on this
Sunday.
792
00:56:33,730 –> 00:56:37,290
What happens when that
resentment builds up inside?
793
00:56:39,010 –> 00:56:42,210
Why would someone else hurting
us separate us from Christ’s
794
00:56:42,210 –> 00:56:45,410
love?
But it does.
795
00:56:46,530 –> 00:56:48,250
It does when you don’t forgive,
doesn’t it?
796
00:56:49,130 –> 00:56:56,850
It can do.
Or what if you’ve been hurt and
797
00:56:56,850 –> 00:57:00,930
you actually begin to blame God?
Or blame Christ?
798
00:57:01,550 –> 00:57:05,750
What if you felt entitled to
something better or easier than
799
00:57:05,750 –> 00:57:08,950
you actually got?
No, Paul says.
800
00:57:08,950 –> 00:57:12,630
We have an obligation in Christ
to suffer, to carry our cross,
801
00:57:16,630 –> 00:57:21,430
but we’re not.
Careful, we’ll resent God
802
00:57:23,110 –> 00:57:30,110
because we interpret suffering
as God not hearing us.
803
00:57:31,080 –> 00:57:36,720
Or listening to our prayers, or
loving us if we think our
804
00:57:36,720 –> 00:57:41,800
suffering is God not hearing us,
God not listening to our.
805
00:57:41,800 –> 00:57:44,240
Prayers.
God not loving us.
806
00:57:46,040 –> 00:57:49,200
What we can do is that we can
actually put an obligation on
807
00:57:49,200 –> 00:57:52,080
God, and this is the obligation
we can put on God.
808
00:57:52,280 –> 00:57:57,000
God, I’d like to live a
comfortable life.
809
00:57:59,900 –> 00:58:01,940
And if I don’t live a
comfortable life, I’m not going
810
00:58:01,940 –> 00:58:05,260
to love you.
So God, your obligation, God
811
00:58:05,260 –> 00:58:08,340
your debt to me is that I live
such a comfortable life.
812
00:58:11,260 –> 00:58:16,100
Does God have that?
Obligation to you what?
813
00:58:16,820 –> 00:58:22,460
What if God did nothing else for
you, did nothing else for you,
814
00:58:23,500 –> 00:58:27,900
but sinned his?
Son to condemn sin.
815
00:58:30,000 –> 00:58:35,640
Would that be enough?
If God didn’t do anything else
816
00:58:35,640 –> 00:58:43,680
for you but he condemned sin,
would you resent him for doing
817
00:58:43,680 –> 00:58:48,400
just that?
What?
818
00:58:48,400 –> 00:58:52,560
Is it going to be enough?
Have we put an obligation on
819
00:58:52,560 –> 00:58:57,400
God?
Have we not forgiven someone
820
00:58:57,400 –> 00:59:01,960
else?
And we’re blaming and that blame
821
00:59:03,120 –> 00:59:05,120
is separating us from the love
of God.
822
00:59:06,000 –> 00:59:08,520
I’m not saying, by the way, that
the person that that you’re
823
00:59:08,520 –> 00:59:13,880
blaming did right or did wrong
or did anything.
824
00:59:14,160 –> 00:59:16,920
I don’t know.
They probably deserve whatever
825
00:59:16,920 –> 00:59:19,880
it is that you have some feeling
against them for.
826
00:59:23,520 –> 00:59:29,130
But if you don’t forgive.
You can separate yourself from
827
00:59:29,130 –> 00:59:34,370
the love of God.
And if we suffer?
828
00:59:34,370 –> 00:59:37,370
Loss in this world.
And we’re hurt by others, or
829
00:59:37,370 –> 00:59:39,930
we’re infected with mortality,
which we all are.
830
00:59:40,650 –> 00:59:49,970
Would not we learn that putting
hope in this world is no hope at
831
00:59:49,970 –> 00:59:55,010
all?
Would not suffering by the hands
832
00:59:55,010 –> 00:59:59,090
of others?
Or with mortality teaches this
833
00:59:59,090 –> 01:00:05,610
lesson alone, that hope in this
world is ultimately no hope at
834
01:00:05,610 –> 01:00:09,090
all.
And so Paul concludes Romans. 8.
835
01:00:09,610 –> 01:00:13,690
By saying that God never turns
away from you, He never abandons
836
01:00:13,690 –> 01:00:17,010
you, He never leaves you, and he
never stops loving you, no
837
01:00:17,010 –> 01:00:21,730
matter what suffering you may
endure, and that nothing can
838
01:00:21,730 –> 01:00:25,710
take that love from you.
Romans 8 verse 35 Who shall
839
01:00:25,710 –> 01:00:27,590
separate us from the love of
Christ?
840
01:00:28,150 –> 01:00:34,390
Shall tribulation, you tell me,
shall distress you tell me, or
841
01:00:34,390 –> 01:00:39,510
persecution, or famine, or
nakedness, or peril, or sword,
842
01:00:39,910 –> 01:00:42,830
as it’s written for your sake.
We’re killed all the day long.
843
01:00:42,990 –> 01:00:44,670
We’re counted sheep for the
slaughter.
844
01:00:45,630 –> 01:00:48,750
Yet in all these things were
more than conquerors through him
845
01:00:48,750 –> 01:00:49,550
who loved.
Us.
846
01:00:50,350 –> 01:00:54,030
For I’m persuaded that neither
death, nor life, nor angels, nor
847
01:00:54,030 –> 01:00:58,590
principalities, nor powers, nor
things presence, nor things that
848
01:00:58,590 –> 01:01:04,630
come, nor height, nor death, nor
anything in all creation, shall
849
01:01:04,630 –> 01:01:07,830
be able to separate us from the
love of God which is in Christ
850
01:01:07,870 –> 01:01:09,670
Jesus.
And Paul does not mention
851
01:01:09,670 –> 01:01:13,270
something.
He does not mention you because
852
01:01:13,270 –> 01:01:16,390
you can separate yourself from
the love of Christ, but not
853
01:01:16,390 –> 01:01:18,950
because of Christ because you’re
angry.
854
01:01:19,560 –> 01:01:22,800
At the Tribulation.
You’re hurt by the sword.
855
01:01:23,440 –> 01:01:25,960
You’re hungry and you’re sick
from persecution.
856
01:01:26,120 –> 01:01:28,280
And because of all you’ve
suffered, and because of all
857
01:01:28,280 –> 01:01:31,160
you’ve struggled with, you have
resentment and anger and
858
01:01:31,160 –> 01:01:33,720
bitterness.
And you choose not to fulfill
859
01:01:33,720 –> 01:01:37,080
your obligation.
And that obligation is to suffer
860
01:01:37,200 –> 01:01:40,320
and to forgive.
And you blame God.
861
01:01:41,080 –> 01:01:42,800
If you loved you, how could this
happen?
862
01:01:43,200 –> 01:01:44,640
You were entitled to a good
life.
863
01:01:44,800 –> 01:01:49,710
Now it’s all messed up.
And then you realize.
864
01:01:51,270 –> 01:01:59,630
And then hopefully at that
moment, you realize my hope was
865
01:01:59,630 –> 01:02:03,310
for this life and was for this
world.
866
01:02:05,430 –> 01:02:10,750
And guess what?
It didn’t turn out.
867
01:02:14,350 –> 01:02:26,010
Is that God’s fault?
It’s the answer, brothers and
868
01:02:26,010 –> 01:02:28,050
sisters.
Young people isn’t in laying
869
01:02:28,050 –> 01:02:31,850
blame for suffering.
There is no answer in blame.
870
01:02:32,090 –> 01:02:40,810
There is no answer in blame.
The point is that you love God
871
01:02:40,810 –> 01:02:42,770
through it, no matter what it
is.
872
01:02:43,450 –> 01:02:49,610
And God can and will bring good
under affliction.
873
01:02:51,360 –> 01:02:57,720
And that good may simply be your
confidence and a hope that
874
01:02:57,720 –> 01:03:06,600
endures.
And so when Jesus suffered, he
875
01:03:06,600 –> 01:03:11,400
forgave because in forgiving on
the cross.
876
01:03:12,600 –> 01:03:15,360
He actually ensured.
That no resentment or any
877
01:03:15,360 –> 01:03:18,280
bitterness would come between
him and the love of the Father
878
01:03:18,440 –> 01:03:21,590
at that moment in time.
And you know, the Father heard
879
01:03:21,590 –> 01:03:25,110
him and loved him, and every
moment of pain and every moment
880
01:03:25,110 –> 01:03:28,110
of torment that he went through.
The Father loved him in every
881
01:03:28,110 –> 01:03:30,550
moment.
The Father never turned away
882
01:03:30,550 –> 01:03:33,630
from him.
The Father never turned away
883
01:03:33,630 –> 01:03:38,350
from Christ, but loved him in
every groan and every even.
884
01:03:38,350 –> 01:03:41,910
When Christ couldn’t even speak
words, even when the only thing
885
01:03:41,910 –> 01:03:45,470
that he could utter were groans,
those groans ascended to the
886
01:03:45,470 –> 01:03:52,910
Father as acceptable prayers.
And even when you don’t have the
887
01:03:52,910 –> 01:03:55,710
words and all you can do is
groan.
888
01:03:55,990 –> 01:04:01,830
If you groan under the weight of
this flesh and with hope for
889
01:04:01,830 –> 01:04:06,310
salvation, then those groans
ascend the Father as acceptable
890
01:04:06,310 –> 01:04:13,150
prayers to him when Alan was on
his deathbed and he could only
891
01:04:13,150 –> 01:04:16,190
groan.
The Father turned away from him
892
01:04:16,190 –> 01:04:18,990
at that moment because he
couldn’t articulate prayers,
893
01:04:22,430 –> 01:04:26,070
even groans said in hope of
salvation.
894
01:04:27,670 –> 01:04:36,900
Our acceptable prayers to God
and Father heard Christ on the
895
01:04:36,900 –> 01:04:45,860
cross and God brought tremendous
good and our obligation.
896
01:04:47,990 –> 01:04:53,710
Is to be like him, to forgive
like him, to love like him.
897
01:04:53,710 –> 01:05:00,110
And we can only do this if our
hope is strong and we understand
898
01:05:00,110 –> 01:05:06,230
that every suffering, anything
we endure, can only bring
899
01:05:06,310 –> 01:05:12,150
patience.
And patience brings hope, and
900
01:05:12,150 –> 01:05:17,230
that hope is very, very sure and
nothing.
901
01:05:17,610 –> 01:05:21,330
Nothing, young people, nothing
can take that hope away from
902
01:05:21,330 –> 01:05:24,410
you.
Nothing anyone does from you.
903
01:05:24,770 –> 01:05:27,730
If you get sick, if anyone else
gets sick, if you get hurt,
904
01:05:27,930 –> 01:05:30,850
there’s an accident.
If someone, the meeting does
905
01:05:30,850 –> 01:05:37,250
something horrific.
Nothing can take away that love
906
01:05:37,890 –> 01:05:45,010
from you.
Nothing in all creation.
907
01:05:49,650 –> 01:05:53,090
And knowing this and having that
hope is how you walk after the
908
01:05:53,090 –> 01:05:57,170
Spirit.
That’s how you walk after the
909
01:05:57,170 –> 01:06:03,050
Spirit.
In that hope made sure through
910
01:06:03,050 –> 01:06:04,690
your understanding of
scriptures.
911
01:06:09,170 –> 01:06:11,170
This is what it means for the
Spirit to guide you.
912
01:06:17,300 –> 01:06:22,860
So what our hope not be bound up
in this present world, for our
913
01:06:22,860 –> 01:06:27,780
suffering now is but a light of
fiction, compared to exceeding
914
01:06:27,780 –> 01:06:35,700
an eternal weight of glory?
2nd Corinthians 417 and 18 For
915
01:06:35,700 –> 01:06:43,740
our light of fiction, which is
for a moment worketh for us.
916
01:06:44,760 –> 01:06:50,240
Far more exceeding an eternal
weight of glory, while we look
917
01:06:50,240 –> 01:06:55,880
not at the things which are
seen, but at the things which
918
01:06:55,880 –> 01:07:00,680
are not seen.
The things which are seen are
919
01:07:01,960 –> 01:07:08,480
temporal, The things which are
not seen are eternal.
920
01:07:17,310 –> 01:07:17,550
It’s not.
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