Simon O’Grady – Unlocking the Proverbs – Class 5 – Proverbs of Solomon

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Good morning, brothers and
sisters, as we come to this

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amazing subject of the wise
counsel and the correction in

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the book of Proverbs.
So today we’re going to start

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moving from the book of Proverbs
in regards to understanding it,

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to putting it into practice,
into the wisdom that is in its

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pages.
Today we’re going to be looking

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at the subject of God’s
correction and the accessing of

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wise counsel.
Now I’m sure, brothers and

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sisters, as you all sit there
today, that many of us, if not

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all of us, are carrying many
burdens.

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We’ve come here as an oasis for
the week from all sorts of

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pressures and stresses and
burdens that we are facing and

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carrying, and we will go home in
a few days and we will have to

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face those and carry those
again.

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And I do know that there’s a
huge amount of suffering.

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Now Cindy and I have travelled a
lot this year, and everywhere,

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brethren and sisters, are
suffering.

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For some, it’s ecclesial turmoil
and tension.

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For some of us, we are mourning
the loss of a loved one.

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Some of us are experiencing
financial pressures.

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Some grappling with
relationships that are broken.

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Some feeling a deep loss of
purpose in life.

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For some, it’s the burdens of
old age, where we can’t sleep.

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We get tired.
We get pain.

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Some of our faculties and our
capabilities are a shadow of

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what they once were.
Some of us hold deep fears, a

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deep worry for the suffering of
others that we love, but we

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can’t do anything about it but
pray and hope.

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Some feel that they’re losing
their battle against sin.

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Some are struggling with trust,
a vital, essential foundation to

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all of our relationships.
Hard to build, easy to lose.

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For some, it’s physical health.
We’re experiencing pain.

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We’re just tired.
For some, it’s traumas of the

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past that just return and haunt
us.

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For some, it’s mental health,
where there are real clinical

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anxiety and grapples with
depression.

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And in all of them, we ask the
question, why?

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Why me?
Why them?

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Why?
Now, we know the answer, don’t

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we?
God knows what he’s doing.

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There’s a bigger picture.
We’re all learning.

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We must trust.
But still we ask, why?

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Now, I can’t give you any
specific answer to that question

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this morning, brothers and
sisters, except this.

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It is because our Heavenly
Father is chasing us as his

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children and his son.
Not punishing us.

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Not punishing us.
Chastening us.

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And to unlock the book of
Proverbs is to unlock the

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purpose and the power of the
Father’s chastening in the life

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of his children.
So this morning, God is going to

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provide us some level of
comfort, some encouragement,

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some hope, some lifting up of
hands that hang down, some

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strengthening of knees that are
feeble.

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Because he wrote this book, the
Father, for his son to explain

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to him the process of
chastening.

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Now, come with me to Hebrews
chapter 12 that we began our

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studies with, one of our keys,
where Hebrews chapter 12 quotes

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the book of Proverbs and
explains to us that it’s a book

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about chastening, the chastening
of the son by the father.

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So let’s just remind ourselves
of that in Hebrews chapter 12

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and verse 3, where the writer of
Hebrews says, consider him, that

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is, consider the Lord Jesus
Christ and his sufferings in his

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life and on that cross, who
endured such contradiction of

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sinners against himself.
Consider that, lest you be

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wearied and faint in your own
minds.

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So he’s saying to us that one of
our keys to not being wearied,

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to not being faint in our minds
as we confront whatever those

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sufferings are in our life, we
consider him.

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For verse 4, you have not yet
resisted unto blood, striving

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against him, as our Lord did.
And verse 5, you have forgotten

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the exhortation which speaks to
you as to children, my son, and

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he quotes the book of Proverbs,
despise not the chastening of

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the Lord, nor faint when thou
art rebuked of him.

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For whom the Lord loves, that’s
his motivation, he chastens and

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scourgeth every son whom he
receives.

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And if you endure, so chastening
will require endurance.

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It will go on and on and on.
If you endure, God is dealing

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with you as with his son and all
of us as children in that son.

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For what son or child is that he
or she whom the father chastens

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not?
But if you be without

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chastisement, whereof all are
partakers in the family of God,

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then you are illegitimate.
You are not his sons.

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Furthermore, we have had fathers
of our flesh which corrected us

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and we gave them reverence.
Shall we not much rather be in

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subjection, lest the spirit of
the son and acceptance of the

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chastening of the father of
spirits and live?

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For they, verily, for a few days
chastened us after their own

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pleasure.
But God, for our profit, that we

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might be partakers of his
holiness.

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There’s his reason for the
chastening for us in our

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sufferings.
Now, no chastening for the

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present time seemeth to be
joyous, but grievous.

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It means full of sorrow and
grief.

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Nevertheless, afterward it
yields the peaceable fruit of

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righteousness to those who are
exercised thereby.

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So that’s the goal, that’s the
end, that’s the hope, that’s the

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reason, is it yields something
called the peaceable fruit of

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righteousness by us when we are
exercised.

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So that’s a picture taken from
the games of the time, that

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labor and effort and exercise
that the athletes put in.

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We are exercised by the
chastening which is grievous so

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that we might profit in the end
with the peaceable fruit of

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righteousness.
Wherefore, because of all of

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that, the motivation of the
father, the reason he does it,

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the end to the chastening, lift
up your hands which hang down

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and the feeble knees and make
straight paths for your feet.

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So that’s the purpose and the
outline of chastening for us in

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Hebrews.
But it directs us to the book of

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Proverbs.
Of all the books of the

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scripture to say, that’s where
you’ll find the principles of

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the chastening of the father to
the son set out.

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So what we find then in the book
of Proverbs, in our first study,

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is that our first key is to
understand that it’s the words

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of the father to the son.
We need to read it like that.

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We need to understand it like
that.

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We need to see that the father
is giving to the son knowledge,

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understanding, wisdom, to
discern between good and evil so

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that he can participate by the
father in a process of

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correction and chastening.
We saw in that relationship it’s

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fundamentally related to the
Davidic covenant.

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I will be his father, he shall
be my son, and I will chasten

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him.
And so the book of Proverbs will

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show us the process of
correction.

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And it all revolves around these
two key terms, these two key

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words there.
The term musor, chastening of

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instruction over 35 times.
Tokicha over 26 times,

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correction and reproof.
So it’s a book of chastening and

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correction.
So today our focus is going to

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be on this particular subject,
on the correction, on the

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chastening, on the reproof, on
the counsel, on the advice of

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the father to the son and to us,
his children, as it’s set out in

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this book of Proverbs.
Now we’ve been looking at the

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fact that the concept of
comprehension, understanding, is

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presented in the scripture as
taking a complex thing and

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breaking it into its past,
separating it mentally or

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putting it back together to
create comprehension and

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understanding.
So it all begins with the

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building blocks.
And we saw in our study

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yesterday that from chapter 10,
as we’ve just read through,

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there are all these little
couplets and they’re all the

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components, if you like.
The base level, the first step

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and two ideas are put together
to create comprehension and

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understanding and how they layer
on top of each other right the

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way through the scripture until
we create this incredible and

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glorious apocalypse revealing of
Jesus Christ and revelation,

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where it’s a tumble and an
avalanche of biblical concepts

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and principles and ideas.
So the book of Proverbs is a

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training ground.
It’s teaching us how to

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understand the father’s words,
how to engage with him, how to

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understand good and evil and
discern between the two and

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choose good and reject evil, how
to participate with the father

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in our lives as he corrects us,
chastens us, reproves us, gives

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us counsel and advice.
So here are all the key terms,

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and there’s a bunch of them that
occur in the book of Proverbs.

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We’re not going to go through
them in detail, but here they

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are.
There’s the term reproof or

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correction from tukicha.
It’s from the root verb to be

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right as opposed to to be wrong,
the wicked.

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And so chastening, correction,
is associated with the idea in

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God’s mind, the father’s mind,
with his principles of right and

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therefore righteousness because
it’s true and it’s right.

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So chastening is about
recognizing the right of God.

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What is true?
What is beautiful?

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What is the good?
What is right?

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We also have this term morsor.
It’s from a root verb, yasir,

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which means to chastise.
And that is a telling off.

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It’s you’re doing wrong there.
That is wrong.

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You need to change.
You need to stop it.

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You need to move to there.
The idea of chastening or

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correction.
But we also have this associated

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idea of counsel that begins to
crop up as we go through the

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book of Proverbs.
It’s the idea of seeking advice,

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sending counsel, establishing a
plan with the counsel and help

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of others.
There’s even the term a steerage

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that crops up with the idea of a
boat.

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So you can steer by counsel or
advice as you listen to others,

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as you accept the feedback and
the input of the Heavenly Father

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and his chastening and
correction process.

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So there’s all the terms in the
book of Proverbs.

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And you’ll see it’s a theme that
runs right through and has

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nuance and facets to it.
But those are the key terms or

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ideas.
So what we’re going to do now is

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we’re going to take these
passages and we’re beginning to

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do what the book of Proverbs has
told us.

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We’re going to start putting the
ideas together.

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So for the next four or five
slides, we’re just going to take

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pieces of the Proverbs.
We’re going to begin to expand

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our knowledge of chastening and
correction and counsel and the

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concepts and begin to put them
together to see emerging out of

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its passage the process that our
Heavenly Father is taking us

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through.
Now the first thing we need to

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note, and I’ve got two passages
here, they’re both from Hebrews.

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One, that exposition in chapter
12 of the book of Proverbs,

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another one in chapter 5, which
gives us some key insights into

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the subject of correction.
And that is that correction is

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done through our suffering.
Not only our suffering, there

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are two other ways in which God
corrects us, but this one is

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key.
Our suffering is fundamentally

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about his chastening and his
correction.

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Not punishment, but his
chastening and his correction.

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So in chapter 5, verse 8, we
read of Hebrews on the screen

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there.
Now that immediately tells us a

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couple of things.
One, the Lord Jesus Christ went

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through this process.
Of course, he is the Son of the

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Father.
He’s the exemplar for us.

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He’s the pattern after which all
our suffering and our chastening

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and our correction is going to
be modelled.

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Second, the Lord Jesus Christ is
sinless.

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So chastening is not punishment.
It’s a process by which the

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Father creates in the Son the
characteristics of righteousness

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that he is looking for.
So he, in the end, becomes his

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beloved and begotten Son.
So the Lord Jesus Christ learnt

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obedience by the things he
suffered.

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For us, in Hebrews chapter 12,
verse 11, we see that chastening

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is about suffering.
It’s grievous, it’s sorrowful,

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it’s full of grief.
It is not joyous suffering and

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00:14:05,729 –> 00:14:09,452
correction.
But it yields afterward

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something called the peaceable
fruit of righteousness.

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And we’ll answer what that is
later on in the session.

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00:14:15,140 –> 00:14:20,780
And in understanding why God
does this, how he does it, its

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purpose and its end, and that
it’s a relationship with him

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00:14:25,784 –> 00:14:30,736
that sits underneath correction,
it will enable us to lift up our

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00:14:30,736 –> 00:14:32,740
hands and strengthen our feeble
knees.

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So the correction and chastening
of God is done through the

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00:14:37,888 –> 00:14:43,005
vehicle of our suffering, is
what we take away from these two

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00:14:43,005 –> 00:14:45,944
passages.
Now this idea that correction is

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00:14:45,944 –> 00:14:51,287
not punishment, that is not the
idea of the Father, is borne out

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00:14:51,287 –> 00:14:53,430
here again on screen.
Now if you can’t read that

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00:14:53,430 –> 00:14:56,735
because the font’s quite small.
1 Peter chapter 2, verse 19 to

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00:14:56,735 –> 00:14:59,298
24.
So let’s just read these verses

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00:14:59,298 –> 00:15:02,820
and take away the point that
correction is not about

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punishment in the Father’s eyes.
It may involve consequence for

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00:15:07,190 –> 00:15:12,235
things that we have done wrong,
but it is not about punishment,

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00:15:12,235 –> 00:15:16,785
it’s about correction because he
wants his children to follow

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00:15:16,785 –> 00:15:21,496
righteousness. 1 Peter chapter
2, verse 19 to 24, we find these

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incredible principles set out.
It is thankworthy.

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00:15:24,260 –> 00:15:26,700
Now just note that’s the word
charis, it’s grace.

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This is grace.
If a man for conscience toward

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00:15:32,560 –> 00:15:35,340
God endure grief, suffering
wrongfully.

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That term conscious is
consciousness.

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00:15:39,560 –> 00:15:47,078
It means full understanding of.
You are conscious of God in your

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00:15:47,078 –> 00:15:52,172
suffering wrongfully.
For what glory is it if when you

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00:15:52,172 –> 00:15:54,960
are buffeted for your faults you
shall take it patiently?

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00:15:56,280 –> 00:16:00,272
But if when you do well and
suffer for it and take it

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00:16:00,272 –> 00:16:02,950
patiently, this is acceptable.
Now that’s our term charis,

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00:16:02,950 –> 00:16:05,220
grace.
This is grace with God.

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For even hereunto were you
called, because Christ also

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suffered for us.
So suffering, the correction is

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00:16:15,806 –> 00:16:19,368
not punishment.
Leaving us an example that we

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00:16:19,368 –> 00:16:23,145
should follow his steps.
Who did no sin, neither was

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00:16:23,145 –> 00:16:26,850
guile found in his mouth.
And when he was reviled, reviled

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00:16:26,850 –> 00:16:28,849
not again.
And when he suffered, he

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00:16:28,849 –> 00:16:31,659
threatened not, but committed
himself to the judge who judges

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00:16:31,659 –> 00:16:34,532
righteously.
And so on his own self he bare

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00:16:34,532 –> 00:16:38,120
our sins.
That is his suffering was

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00:16:38,120 –> 00:16:41,080
related to bearing our sins.
Isaiah 53.

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00:16:41,400 –> 00:16:44,790
In his own body on the tree that
he being dead to sin should live

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to right.
And by those stripes, the

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00:16:47,618 –> 00:16:49,820
suffering of Christ, we are
healed.

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00:16:51,240 –> 00:16:55,719
This is a beautiful illustration
here of the principles of the

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00:16:55,719 –> 00:17:00,762
suffering of Christ.
And that is in its essence, the

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00:17:00,762 –> 00:17:06,220
suffering of Christ is the
suffering of an innocent man.

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Suffering wrongfully.
It means unjustly.

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And so there’s an inherent
concept here in the suffering of

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Christ that it’s wrong.
It’s unjust.

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00:17:17,920 –> 00:17:23,409
And yet it’s the process by
which the father chastens and

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00:17:23,409 –> 00:17:27,400
corrects his son, by which he
learnt obedience.

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And so the righteousness of God
would be displayed in him.

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00:17:35,580 –> 00:17:40,868
And so all that stuff that was
done to him by evil men was done

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00:17:40,868 –> 00:17:44,028
wrongfully.
There was no fault in Christ

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00:17:44,028 –> 00:17:49,742
that he suffered that.
And yet he went through it as

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00:17:49,742 –> 00:17:54,125
the patent and exemplar for us
of one who was being chastened

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00:17:54,125 –> 00:17:57,740
by the father.
Now for you and I, of course, in

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our lives, often we do
experience consequence of things

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00:18:00,260 –> 00:18:03,450
that we have done wrong.
But very often there are

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00:18:03,450 –> 00:18:06,309
brethren and sisters suffering
the consequences of other

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00:18:06,309 –> 00:18:09,564
people’s doing wrong.
And of the general evil of the

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00:18:09,564 –> 00:18:12,280
paradigm of this world that
entered the world in Genesis.

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So correction is not punishment.
And while it might be

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00:18:18,984 –> 00:18:21,140
consequence or it may not of
ourselves.

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00:18:21,880 –> 00:18:25,052
It is always the consequence of
the evil that entered the world

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00:18:25,052 –> 00:18:28,460
in Genesis.
And it’s the process by which

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00:18:28,460 –> 00:18:31,820
the father corrects and chastens
his son.

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00:18:32,220 –> 00:18:35,964
So that afterward it yields the
peaceable fruit of

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00:18:35,964 –> 00:18:42,579
righteousness.
So suffering is a key way in

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00:18:42,579 –> 00:18:45,800
which the father chastens his
children.

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00:18:46,740 –> 00:18:49,060
But correction is also done
through the word.

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00:18:49,560 –> 00:18:52,400
Turn with me to 2 Timothy 3,
verse 12 to 17.

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Very well known passage.
But as we read this, you’ll see

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00:18:56,829 –> 00:18:59,920
that his mind to Timothy is in
the book of Proverbs.

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00:19:00,900 –> 00:19:04,630
That’s where he’s going to as he
explains that the word of God

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00:19:04,630 –> 00:19:09,829
itself, all of the scriptures,
are a vehicle by which God will

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00:19:09,829 –> 00:19:12,920
correct us and reprove us and
instruct us.

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00:19:13,420 –> 00:19:16,580
So let’s turn up to 2 Timothy 3,
verses 12 to 17.

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Now the context, of course, is
Timothy is that it is written to

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00:19:22,494 –> 00:19:26,580
my beloved son, the son of
Timothy, of Paul.

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00:19:27,080 –> 00:19:30,980
So here Timothy is in the
position of the son to Paul who

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00:19:30,980 –> 00:19:33,080
is in the position of the
father.

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00:19:33,120 –> 00:19:35,460
And this is what he says in
verse 12 of 2 Timothy 3.

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Yea, all that will live godly in
Christ Jesus shall suffer

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00:19:40,202 –> 00:19:43,720
persecution.
But evil men and seducers.

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00:19:43,780 –> 00:19:46,080
He puts two archetypes out of
the book of Proverbs.

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00:19:46,380 –> 00:19:48,780
The evil man and the strange
seducing woman.

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00:19:49,160 –> 00:19:53,579
Those two will wax worse and
worse, deceiving and being

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00:19:53,579 –> 00:19:56,064
deceived.
But continue thou, my son

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00:19:56,064 –> 00:19:58,640
Timothy, in the things that
you’ve learned.

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00:19:59,760 –> 00:20:03,000
So it’s a learning process.
And you’ve been assured of,

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00:20:03,000 –> 00:20:04,700
knowing of whom you’ve learned
them.

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00:20:04,700 –> 00:20:10,818
That from a child, so this is a
context of the child, the son,

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00:20:10,818 –> 00:20:13,440
that has known the holy
scriptures.

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00:20:13,900 –> 00:20:16,900
And they are able to make you
wise.

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00:20:17,420 –> 00:20:19,140
Now that’s the question of
Proverbs, isn’t it?

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Seeking the wisdom.
The wisdom that leads to

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00:20:23,785 –> 00:20:26,020
salvation through faith in
Christ Jesus.

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00:20:26,020 –> 00:20:30,540
And it’s in all of the
scripture, from Genesis to

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00:20:30,540 –> 00:20:34,600
Revelation, given by the
inspiration or breathing of God.

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And it’s profitable.
And he uses two groups of terms.

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For doctrine and instruction.
Two teaching concepts.

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00:20:42,860 –> 00:20:45,280
Which are two key ideas in the
book of Proverbs.

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And reproof and correction.
Two chastening concepts.

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00:20:50,660 –> 00:20:52,300
That’s taken from the book of
Proverbs.

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00:20:52,300 –> 00:20:57,478
So that the man of God may be
perfect, throughly furnished for

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00:20:57,478 –> 00:21:01,732
good works.
So the word of God is the other

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00:21:01,732 –> 00:21:05,020
key way by which our father
corrects and chastens us.

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00:21:05,560 –> 00:21:08,720
The other is through the
suffering in our life.

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00:21:09,720 –> 00:21:13,675
Which is conceptually wrapped
with the evil that entered the

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00:21:13,675 –> 00:21:18,732
world in Genesis.
But there’s another route to

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00:21:18,732 –> 00:21:21,600
wise counsel.
I’ll put these two on the

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00:21:21,600 –> 00:21:24,785
screen.
But we have a channel of wise

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00:21:24,785 –> 00:21:27,980
counsel, of correction, in those
that are around us.

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00:21:28,020 –> 00:21:31,958
Hebrews chapter 10 verse 24.
Let us consider one another to

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00:21:31,958 –> 00:21:34,800
provoke to love and to good
works.

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00:21:35,200 –> 00:21:39,802
So there is an access into
aspects of the counsel or the

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00:21:39,802 –> 00:21:42,100
correction, the counsel and the
chastening.

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00:21:42,100 –> 00:21:48,230
In our ability to provoke and
consider one another to love and

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00:21:48,230 –> 00:21:56,775
to good works.
Not forsaking the assembling of

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00:21:56,775 –> 00:22:01,284
ourselves together.
Because if you do that, you

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00:22:01,284 –> 00:22:03,840
can’t access that as the manner
of some is.

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00:22:03,980 –> 00:22:07,525
But exhorting one another that
you can only do if you connect

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00:22:07,525 –> 00:22:10,180
and you are in relationships
with those around you.

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00:22:10,180 –> 00:22:12,560
And so much the more as you see
the day approaching.

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00:22:12,700 –> 00:22:16,440
Or James 5, 90 to 20.
Brethren, if any of you err from

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00:22:16,440 –> 00:22:20,340
the truth and one convert and
know that he which converts the

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00:22:20,340 –> 00:22:24,565
sinner from his error shall save
a soul from death and hide a

345
00:22:24,565 –> 00:22:27,960
multitude of sins.
Forgiveness is the drive.

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00:22:27,960 –> 00:22:30,700
Not judgment.
Not condemnation.

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00:22:31,980 –> 00:22:35,514
So there is correction available
to us in the Father’s wisdom

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00:22:35,514 –> 00:22:37,440
through our interactions with
each other.

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00:22:38,740 –> 00:22:42,964
So as we go through the book of
Proverbs, what you’ll see

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00:22:42,964 –> 00:22:47,892
emerging is that one of the key
traits of the son, of the wise,

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00:22:47,892 –> 00:22:50,356
is their characteristic of
constantly seeking to

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00:22:50,356 –> 00:22:53,937
spiritually improve.
They submit to the hand of God’s

353
00:22:53,937 –> 00:22:58,654
chastening as the son.
They will listen and they will

354
00:22:58,654 –> 00:23:02,932
take on words of correction and
reproof because they want to

355
00:23:02,932 –> 00:23:06,614
improve.
They are experts and they grow

356
00:23:06,614 –> 00:23:11,281
the ability to give wise counsel
to others and to receive it from

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00:23:11,281 –> 00:23:14,680
others.
The wise seek the knowledge and

358
00:23:14,680 –> 00:23:17,920
understanding wisdom of good and
evil so they can refuse the evil

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00:23:17,920 –> 00:23:20,904
and choose the good.
And they understand that

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00:23:20,904 –> 00:23:25,185
correction and chastening is a
fundamental part of that

361
00:23:25,185 –> 00:23:28,680
process.
As we go through the book of the

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00:23:28,680 –> 00:23:31,300
Proverbs, we will find that the
fools won’t receive counsel.

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00:23:31,440 –> 00:23:33,580
They hate counsel.
They hate correction.

364
00:23:34,040 –> 00:23:38,125
On the screen, Proverbs 1, 25.
The woman wisdom, as she’s

365
00:23:38,125 –> 00:23:41,418
crying out to the nation, says,
You set at naught all my

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00:23:41,418 –> 00:23:43,640
counsel.
You’re none of my reproof.

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00:23:44,240 –> 00:23:48,581
Chapter 5, verse 12.
At the end of a process, the

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00:23:48,581 –> 00:23:54,450
writer in the book of Proverbs
says, I failed to apply the

369
00:23:54,450 –> 00:23:57,200
principles.
I chose the evil, not the good.

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00:23:57,480 –> 00:24:01,480
And in the end I said, Why have
I ended up in this mess?

371
00:24:02,080 –> 00:24:07,100
Because I hated instruction.
My heart despised reproof.

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00:24:07,680 –> 00:24:10,780
I’ve not obeyed the voice of my
teachers.

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00:24:11,120 –> 00:24:14,720
I didn’t incline my ear to the
ones who instructed me.

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00:24:14,720 –> 00:24:17,980
So fools don’t receive counsel.
That’s their trait.

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00:24:18,060 –> 00:24:22,704
But the wise will.
This is the attitude of the wise

376
00:24:22,704 –> 00:24:25,180
to counsel instruction.
Proverbs 4, verse 13.

377
00:24:25,360 –> 00:24:28,140
Take fast hold of instruction.
Don’t let her go.

378
00:24:28,280 –> 00:24:29,720
Keep her.
She’s your life.

379
00:24:32,540 –> 00:24:35,040
So the holding and the
acceptance of instruction,

380
00:24:36,040 –> 00:24:39,336
engaging the process of
correction and chastening with

381
00:24:39,336 –> 00:24:43,642
the Father, is something we
should take fast hold of because

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00:24:43,642 –> 00:24:46,780
it’s our life.
Proverbs 9, verse 9.

383
00:24:47,280 –> 00:24:50,620
Give instruction to a wise man
and he’ll be yet wiser.

384
00:24:50,800 –> 00:24:54,438
You see the trait of the wise?
You give instruction to a wise

385
00:24:54,438 –> 00:24:57,320
person, they take it on board.
They become wiser.

386
00:24:58,360 –> 00:25:03,480
Teach a just, that’s our term,
right, righteous, a right man.

387
00:25:03,480 –> 00:25:06,360
And he will increase in
learning.

388
00:25:06,800 –> 00:25:09,735
You see the spirit and the
attitude of the wise and of the

389
00:25:09,735 –> 00:25:12,500
right?
They increase in their learning

390
00:25:12,500 –> 00:25:16,252
because they’re taking on board
the wisdom and the learning and

391
00:25:16,252 –> 00:25:19,840
the teaching of others, of the
Father, and their engagement in

392
00:25:19,840 –> 00:25:21,580
that process.
Proverbs 9, verse 20.

393
00:25:21,960 –> 00:25:25,305
Hear counsel, receive
instruction, that you will be

394
00:25:25,305 –> 00:25:29,135
wise in your latter end.
So the end result of attaining

395
00:25:29,135 –> 00:25:31,700
wisdom, knowledge,
understanding, and practice in

396
00:25:31,700 –> 00:25:35,940
our lives, the choosing of the
good, the rejecting of the evil,

397
00:25:36,460 –> 00:25:40,174
is a result of us hearing
counsel and receiving

398
00:25:40,174 –> 00:25:45,198
instruction.
Wise counsel is important in

399
00:25:45,198 –> 00:25:50,520
ecclesial life, says Proverbs.
Proverbs 5, verse 15, verse 22.

400
00:25:50,880 –> 00:25:55,431
Without counsel, purposes are
disappointed, but in the

401
00:25:55,431 –> 00:25:58,300
multitude of counselors, they
are established.

402
00:26:00,000 –> 00:26:03,710
So well-run ecclesiastes tap
into the principle of seeking

403
00:26:03,710 –> 00:26:09,060
the counsel, the correction, the
ideas of others, so they can

404
00:26:09,060 –> 00:26:11,460
establish through a multitude of
counsel.

405
00:26:12,220 –> 00:26:15,736
And this is a sub-theme now that
starts to come out of the idea

406
00:26:15,736 –> 00:26:20,460
of instruction and correction,
that the wise provide counsel.

407
00:26:21,540 –> 00:26:24,940
They receive counsel.
Proverbs 11, verse 14.

408
00:26:25,060 –> 00:26:28,950
Where no counsel is, the people
fall, but in the multitude of

409
00:26:28,950 –> 00:26:33,960
counselors, there is safety.
Or Proverbs 20, verse 18.

410
00:26:34,400 –> 00:26:38,640
Plans are established by
counsel, and by wise counsel,

411
00:26:38,740 –> 00:26:40,944
they wage war.
And we all know, don’t we, that

412
00:26:40,944 –> 00:26:43,920
we’re involved in a war.
We’re fighting collectively and

413
00:26:43,920 –> 00:26:47,614
individually against sin.
And it says, well, plans against

414
00:26:47,614 –> 00:26:52,578
sin are established by wise
counsel, and the waging of war

415
00:26:52,578 –> 00:26:57,452
in ecclesias, and in lives and
in families, is done by wise

416
00:26:57,452 –> 00:26:58,920
counsel, says the book of
Proverbs.

417
00:26:58,920 –> 00:27:04,960
You will find wise counsel at
the heart of good friendships,

418
00:27:04,960 –> 00:27:09,420
says Proverbs 27, verse 9.
Ointment and perfume, rejoice

419
00:27:09,420 –> 00:27:14,154
the heart, so does the sweetness
of a man’s friend by hearty

420
00:27:14,154 –> 00:27:16,160
counsel, that is, counsel from
the heart.

421
00:27:16,860 –> 00:27:22,914
So in a good friendship and
relationship, counsel is

422
00:27:22,914 –> 00:27:25,000
sweetness, says the book of
Proverbs.

423
00:27:25,000 –> 00:27:29,228
And finally, in Proverbs 20,
verse 5, and we’re just skimming

424
00:27:29,228 –> 00:27:31,656
through a whole lot of these,
but hopefully now, we’re putting

425
00:27:31,656 –> 00:27:36,287
the ideas together and getting a
picture of wise counsel as an

426
00:27:36,287 –> 00:27:39,874
aspect of the correcting and
education and instruction

427
00:27:39,874 –> 00:27:42,380
process that God’s made
available for us.

428
00:27:43,200 –> 00:27:46,565
Not only does he instruct us
through his word as his primary

429
00:27:46,565 –> 00:27:49,720
vehicle, but then through the
correcting and suffering process

430
00:27:49,720 –> 00:27:53,290
of our lives, and then providing
us a group of counselors around

431
00:27:53,290 –> 00:27:56,720
us, all of whom have gaining
experience and knowledge and

432
00:27:56,720 –> 00:27:59,255
understanding wisdom of
discernment between good and

433
00:27:59,255 –> 00:28:03,101
evil and how to apply it in life
that we can tap into and that we

434
00:28:03,101 –> 00:28:05,800
can contribute to.
Proverbs 20, verse 5.

435
00:28:05,960 –> 00:28:08,660
Counsel in the heart of man is
like deep water.

436
00:28:10,680 –> 00:28:13,860
You’ve got counsel.
I’ve got counsel.

437
00:28:14,840 –> 00:28:18,032
It’s all related to a life of
involvement with the word of

438
00:28:18,032 –> 00:28:21,220
God, of our personal sufferings
and experience.

439
00:28:23,460 –> 00:28:25,400
But it’s hidden.
It’s deep.

440
00:28:26,420 –> 00:28:29,350
It needs searching out.
And a man of understanding taps

441
00:28:29,350 –> 00:28:33,424
into that counsel.
So what I’d like to do is pick

442
00:28:33,424 –> 00:28:38,140
up that theme and just for 10 or
15 minutes look at the concept

443
00:28:38,140 –> 00:28:42,627
of fostering a culture in
ourselves, in our families, in

444
00:28:42,627 –> 00:28:46,540
our ecclesias of wise counsel.
Knowing that Heavenly Father has

445
00:28:46,540 –> 00:28:51,034
put us together to provide that
as one of the three arms, if you

446
00:28:51,034 –> 00:28:55,270
like, of us providing
correction, instruction, and

447
00:28:55,270 –> 00:28:58,280
counsel, and reproof to his son
and to his children.

448
00:28:58,940 –> 00:29:04,500
His word, our suffering guided
by God, and brethren and sisters

449
00:29:04,500 –> 00:29:08,800
around us.
So here’s all the passages here

450
00:29:08,800 –> 00:29:11,920
around the fostering of wise
counsel.

451
00:29:11,920 –> 00:29:14,420
You can look at all those
yourself.

452
00:29:14,580 –> 00:29:18,470
But what I’d like to do is just
spend a moment where you’re

453
00:29:18,470 –> 00:29:23,768
going to experience, in just a
small way, a process of wise

454
00:29:23,768 –> 00:29:26,772
counsel.
So one of the themes of the book

455
00:29:26,772 –> 00:29:29,648
of Proverbs is it says that God
puts us into ecclesias, it puts

456
00:29:29,648 –> 00:29:33,140
us into families, he puts us
intersecting each other because

457
00:29:33,140 –> 00:29:38,820
it gives a vast, deep well of
wise counsel that’s available.

458
00:29:39,860 –> 00:29:44,180
And wise people are able to tap
into that and become wiser.

459
00:29:45,600 –> 00:29:49,860
Those who are wise are experts
at providing that counsel into

460
00:29:49,860 –> 00:29:52,660
the well that others might draw
upon it.

461
00:29:53,100 –> 00:29:56,414
So our question here is about
developing a culture of wise

462
00:29:56,414 –> 00:30:00,680
counsel and availing ourselves
of that arm, if you like, of

463
00:30:00,680 –> 00:30:03,967
correction and instruction that
the Father has provided. and why

464
00:30:03,967 –> 00:30:10,170
wouldn’t we want to access that?
If you’re anything like me, I’ve

465
00:30:10,170 –> 00:30:13,752
made a lot of mistakes in life.
I’ve also made a lot of good

466
00:30:13,752 –> 00:30:16,514
decisions in life.
I’ve experienced lots of

467
00:30:16,514 –> 00:30:20,047
consequences from both.
I’m sure that you’ve done the

468
00:30:20,047 –> 00:30:24,195
same and they will be different.
Why wouldn’t I want to know your

469
00:30:24,195 –> 00:30:29,420
wisdom, your comprehension, your
warning about where you made a

470
00:30:29,420 –> 00:30:31,080
mistake and I might and I want
to avoid that?

471
00:30:31,080 –> 00:30:32,760
Why wouldn’t I want to tap into
that?

472
00:30:33,840 –> 00:30:36,820
In fact, if I decided not to,
what might I be called?

473
00:30:37,940 –> 00:30:40,747
A fool.
So it’s powerful, brethren and

474
00:30:40,747 –> 00:30:41,800
sisters.
I don’t know how many in here,

475
00:30:41,840 –> 00:30:46,860
150 brethren and sisters.
How deep is that well of counsel

476
00:30:46,860 –> 00:30:50,040
that’s available to us if we can
tap into it?

477
00:30:50,940 –> 00:30:54,034
How much deeper would it be if
we could contribute our own

478
00:30:54,034 –> 00:30:57,790
experience in the word of God
and personal suffering and

479
00:30:57,790 –> 00:31:01,847
chastening under the Father’s
hand and experience of good and

480
00:31:01,847 –> 00:31:05,247
of evil?
So it’s a very, very powerful

481
00:31:05,247 –> 00:31:08,880
thing that’s available to us if
we develop a culture of wise

482
00:31:08,880 –> 00:31:10,470
counsel.
So this is what we’re going to

483
00:31:10,470 –> 00:31:15,640
do.
I’ll give you about seven

484
00:31:15,640 –> 00:31:18,360
minutes.
Just form a group of two or

485
00:31:18,360 –> 00:31:21,980
three so the person next to you
or three people sitting together

486
00:31:21,980 –> 00:31:25,280
if there’s someone just maybe
there on their own, maybe four,

487
00:31:25,620 –> 00:31:28,827
I’ll allow four but not nine
again, whoever had that group of

488
00:31:28,827 –> 00:31:31,707
nine.
So groups of two or three and

489
00:31:31,707 –> 00:31:35,860
the reason for that by the way
is that groups of two or three

490
00:31:35,860 –> 00:31:40,880
everybody gets to talk.
Groups of nine they don’t

491
00:31:40,880 –> 00:31:43,314
because as soon as you get in a
group of nine the dynamics

492
00:31:43,314 –> 00:31:45,104
change.
So you’ve probably heard me say

493
00:31:45,104 –> 00:31:48,300
this before but it’s a really
useful way of thinking about it.

494
00:31:48,740 –> 00:31:50,560
We think and we contribute
differently.

495
00:31:51,260 –> 00:31:53,900
In a general sense we can fall
into two categories.

496
00:31:53,900 –> 00:31:56,680
I call them talker thinkers and
thinker talkers.

497
00:31:56,840 –> 00:32:00,340
So they’re the people who think
by talking.

498
00:32:00,440 –> 00:32:03,380
That is their mode of thinking.
They need to talk to think.

499
00:32:04,520 –> 00:32:08,840
Now everybody knows who you are
even if you don’t yourself.

500
00:32:10,320 –> 00:32:12,780
But that’s okay.
That’s your mode of thinking.

501
00:32:13,480 –> 00:32:17,740
And you need space for that.
And by the way those who do they

502
00:32:17,740 –> 00:32:21,120
tend to be very broad.
You’ll go all over subjects.

503
00:32:21,340 –> 00:32:24,980
You’ll explore stuff.
So talker thinkers aren’t

504
00:32:24,980 –> 00:32:27,840
necessarily making a point.
They’re just exploring stuff.

505
00:32:28,700 –> 00:32:32,260
That’s why they go all over the
place and everyone goes what are

506
00:32:32,260 –> 00:32:34,760
you saying?
Well no I’m just having fun.

507
00:32:34,840 –> 00:32:41,340
Go in places exploring things.
Whereas the others they don’t

508
00:32:41,340 –> 00:32:43,380
talk they pause.
They reflect.

509
00:32:43,700 –> 00:32:46,320
They think.
They need to understand things

510
00:32:46,320 –> 00:32:50,320
and then they talk at the end.
You get depth out of that.

511
00:32:51,240 –> 00:32:53,600
Not real deep thinking.
And you need both.

512
00:32:53,680 –> 00:32:56,620
You need to explore it all and
you need depth down the sleeves.

513
00:32:57,040 –> 00:32:58,760
The funny stuff is we annoy each
other.

514
00:32:59,160 –> 00:33:07,200
So those of you like to think go
can you just close your mouth

515
00:33:07,200 –> 00:33:11,000
and let people think like we’ve
talked a lot.

516
00:33:11,580 –> 00:33:14,680
And the others go why won’t you
talk?

517
00:33:14,760 –> 00:33:16,080
You’re just sitting there not
contributing.

518
00:33:16,540 –> 00:33:18,240
So we’ve got to give each other
space.

519
00:33:18,320 –> 00:33:20,814
If we have two or three you can
get the dynamics working that

520
00:33:20,814 –> 00:33:24,040
you can’t in a group in nine.
So it is important to do that.

521
00:33:24,240 –> 00:33:28,050
Just be aware of each other and
how we think through information

522
00:33:28,050 –> 00:33:30,040
and contribute it.
So here’s the question.

523
00:33:31,400 –> 00:33:34,840
You’re the one with knowledge,
understanding and wisdom and

524
00:33:34,840 –> 00:33:38,120
it’s really useful.
So we’ll assume that it’s good,

525
00:33:38,200 –> 00:33:41,780
it’s biblical and correct and
it’s really useful to someone

526
00:33:41,780 –> 00:33:43,540
else to help them grow
spiritually.

527
00:33:43,800 –> 00:33:46,200
So here we are.
We’ve got wise counsel and

528
00:33:46,200 –> 00:33:49,130
somebody else has a need for it.
So in groups of two or three,

529
00:33:49,130 –> 00:33:54,287
just discuss these three points.
And those who like to talk just

530
00:33:54,287 –> 00:33:57,180
go, oh look, I’ve been talking a
long time, maybe I’ll be quiet.

531
00:33:57,720 –> 00:34:01,930
And those who like to think then
go, oh here’s my real gem of an

532
00:34:01,930 –> 00:34:04,300
idea or a point.
So here’s the three questions.

533
00:34:04,760 –> 00:34:06,020
Should you give them that
counsel?

534
00:34:06,400 –> 00:34:10,340
Why?
What are the three top enablers?

535
00:34:10,480 –> 00:34:13,480
They’re the things that you need
to have to be successful at

536
00:34:13,480 –> 00:34:17,170
giving that wise counsel. and
what are the top three barriers,

537
00:34:17,170 –> 00:34:20,179
the things that stop you being
able to do that or be effective?

538
00:34:21,239 –> 00:34:25,520
Make sense?
And what we’re doing is

539
00:34:25,520 –> 00:34:29,260
extracting wise counsel.
So we’re just going to do a

540
00:34:29,260 –> 00:34:32,020
small little example of the
process of wise counsel.

541
00:34:32,280 –> 00:34:33,800
So I’ll give you seven minutes.
Go.

542
00:34:44,860 –> 00:34:48,100
Okay, sorry to interrupt all the
conversation.

543
00:34:48,320 –> 00:34:50,880
We could probably go on for a
little while but just stay in

544
00:34:50,880 –> 00:34:54,940
your groups because what we’re
going to do now is we’re just

545
00:34:54,940 –> 00:34:58,554
going to flip the perspective.
So I’ll give you another five to

546
00:34:58,554 –> 00:35:01,140
seven minutes but this time it’s
not us.

547
00:35:01,720 –> 00:35:05,050
Somebody else has knowledge and
understanding and wisdom that’s

548
00:35:05,050 –> 00:35:08,140
really useful to me.
It’s really useful to you to

549
00:35:08,140 –> 00:35:12,220
help you grow spiritually.
So talk together about what

550
00:35:12,220 –> 00:35:16,094
would be the top three enablers,
so now you’re going to receive

551
00:35:16,094 –> 00:35:20,720
it for that being successful, or
barriers to you receiving that.

552
00:35:20,980 –> 00:35:22,460
And are they the same as the
other ones?

553
00:35:22,620 –> 00:35:25,200
So I’ll give you another five to
seven minutes to discuss that.

554
00:35:29,440 –> 00:35:31,380
All right, sorry to interrupt
everyone.

555
00:35:31,760 –> 00:35:33,860
We’re going to have to bring
that conversation at the end.

556
00:35:33,980 –> 00:35:35,980
Feel free to continue it over
lunch.

557
00:35:36,840 –> 00:35:41,040
It sounds like there’s quite a
few deep wells of counsel being

558
00:35:41,040 –> 00:35:45,100
dipped into and drawing it out
by those who understand.

559
00:35:45,800 –> 00:35:48,700
So hopefully that’s been useful
experience just a mini way.

560
00:35:49,580 –> 00:35:50,920
That’s what wise counsel is
about.

561
00:35:51,820 –> 00:35:56,090
Others have experiences.
They’ve been working through the

562
00:35:56,090 –> 00:35:57,400
scriptures.
They’ve been working in

563
00:35:57,400 –> 00:36:01,060
partnership as a son of the
father, submitting themselves to

564
00:36:01,060 –> 00:36:03,140
correction.
They’ve been enduring suffering.

565
00:36:03,620 –> 00:36:05,800
They’ve been giving and
receiving wise counsel.

566
00:36:06,380 –> 00:36:08,520
They have deep insights for us
to tap into.

567
00:36:09,220 –> 00:36:12,387
Now it would be nice now to have
a big whiteboard and synthesise

568
00:36:12,387 –> 00:36:15,967
all of that wise counsel onto a
board and you’ll see that some

569
00:36:15,967 –> 00:36:19,060
groups were repeating the same
themes, others had different and

570
00:36:19,060 –> 00:36:20,940
put it all together.
We don’t have time for that.

571
00:36:21,040 –> 00:36:23,940
So what we’ll do again is what
we did the other day.

572
00:36:24,220 –> 00:36:27,180
And we’re going to put up the
results of that process in other

573
00:36:27,180 –> 00:36:30,390
forums and you can have a look
and say, oh yeah, we had that

574
00:36:30,390 –> 00:36:33,020
one or we had some different
ones that were important and if

575
00:36:33,020 –> 00:36:36,074
you want to come up and see me.
I’d love to have your wise

576
00:36:36,074 –> 00:36:39,640
counsel and include it in this
presentation if there’s another

577
00:36:39,640 –> 00:36:42,300
time.
So here’s some of the wise

578
00:36:42,300 –> 00:36:43,940
counsel from other brothers and
sisters.

579
00:36:46,220 –> 00:36:49,600
Context is key.
There has to be a relationship

580
00:36:49,600 –> 00:36:54,780
with trust or you can’t do it.
If you don’t trust the person,

581
00:36:54,940 –> 00:36:57,760
their counsel is very difficult
to receive.

582
00:36:59,220 –> 00:37:02,720
If the person doesn’t trust you,
providing that well counsel is

583
00:37:02,720 –> 00:37:05,720
very difficult to give.
Trust has to be there at the

584
00:37:05,720 –> 00:37:08,360
heart of relationships before
you can really give and receive

585
00:37:08,360 –> 00:37:10,280
wise counsel.
You’ve got to make sure it

586
00:37:10,280 –> 00:37:13,400
actually is wise counsel and not
unsolicited opinion.

587
00:37:16,780 –> 00:37:18,720
And it’s really important to
know the difference.

588
00:37:19,600 –> 00:37:23,180
All of us have experienced
unsolicited opinion and all of

589
00:37:23,180 –> 00:37:26,590
us have given unsolicited
opinion that’s not necessarily

590
00:37:26,590 –> 00:37:32,540
actually wise counsel.
There needs to be a motivation.

591
00:37:32,760 –> 00:37:35,580
We need to know the person
giving us that wise counsel

592
00:37:35,580 –> 00:37:39,247
genuinely cares about it, loves
us, and it’s shown and it’s

593
00:37:39,247 –> 00:37:42,460
known in the way it works.
When we give that to others,

594
00:37:42,700 –> 00:37:44,720
they need to know that’s our
motivation.

595
00:37:44,940 –> 00:37:46,980
It needs to be known, it needs
to be shown.

596
00:37:47,800 –> 00:37:51,060
There’s a context.
Humility is needed by both

597
00:37:51,060 –> 00:37:53,980
parties.
One to receive it, the other

598
00:37:53,980 –> 00:37:56,680
want to make sure they don’t
have a spirit of superiority in

599
00:37:56,680 –> 00:38:00,680
the giving of it.
This is a really important one.

600
00:38:01,200 –> 00:38:04,180
It needs to be seen as an
opportunity to grow and not a

601
00:38:04,180 –> 00:38:05,800
judgment.
This is really difficult.

602
00:38:05,800 –> 00:38:08,540
Now, I’m not going to ask for a
show of hands, but how many,

603
00:38:08,620 –> 00:38:11,820
when someone comes up in a
particular way with some wise

604
00:38:11,820 –> 00:38:16,640
counsel and feedback immediately
go, like I do.

605
00:38:18,320 –> 00:38:22,580
Because we are viewing it as a
judgment about whether a good or

606
00:38:22,580 –> 00:38:26,080
bad person, whatever that might
mean, functionally or morally.

607
00:38:27,080 –> 00:38:31,325
So that’s making me a bad person
or not successful, and I don’t

608
00:38:31,325 –> 00:38:33,434
like that.
It doesn’t fit my self-image, so

609
00:38:33,434 –> 00:38:36,620
I reject it, as opposed to
seeing it as an opportunity to

610
00:38:36,620 –> 00:38:39,100
grow.
It’s an important spirit of

611
00:38:39,100 –> 00:38:43,900
those who give and receive.
Here’s some more insights of

612
00:38:43,900 –> 00:38:47,987
wise counsel from others.
If you don’t have counsel, don’t

613
00:38:47,987 –> 00:38:50,000
give it.
It’s okay to say, I don’t know.

614
00:38:51,120 –> 00:38:53,960
Don’t make something up.
You don’t have to.

615
00:38:54,620 –> 00:38:58,134
You can say, I’d like to help,
but I just don’t have any wisdom

616
00:38:58,134 –> 00:39:04,840
in that area. helping someone
think, now my children have

617
00:39:04,840 –> 00:39:08,495
taught me this, and my wife,
thank you, helping someone think

618
00:39:08,495 –> 00:39:11,080
can be as useful as giving a
solution.

619
00:39:12,820 –> 00:39:14,920
Right?
So the wise counsel might

620
00:39:14,920 –> 00:39:17,790
actually be in the form of
helping the person think through

621
00:39:17,790 –> 00:39:21,620
their issue and arriving at
solutions or possible solutions

622
00:39:21,620 –> 00:39:24,460
and actions, as opposed to, I
heard you, this is what you do.

623
00:39:25,220 –> 00:39:28,020
Wise counsel might be of that
form, and we can see the Lord

624
00:39:28,020 –> 00:39:29,840
doing that through the gospel
record often.

625
00:39:31,360 –> 00:39:36,340
If we’re outcome driven, we will
know that how we give it is just

626
00:39:36,340 –> 00:39:41,350
as important as the content.
There’s no point having good

627
00:39:41,350 –> 00:39:45,007
content of wise counsel and
delivering it badly, because you

628
00:39:45,007 –> 00:39:48,600
won’t get the outcome.
Confidentiality.

629
00:39:50,320 –> 00:39:52,700
If you don’t keep it in
confidence, what do you break?

630
00:39:53,900 –> 00:39:56,720
Trust.
And if you don’t have trust, you

631
00:39:56,720 –> 00:39:59,480
don’t have a relationship in
which wise counsel be given and

632
00:39:59,480 –> 00:40:02,680
received.
How often do we break that one?

633
00:40:04,300 –> 00:40:07,640
Someone’s come to us for wise
counsel, been vulnerable and

634
00:40:07,640 –> 00:40:11,220
told us stuff, and we repeat it.
Terrible.

635
00:40:13,100 –> 00:40:14,960
And just remember, the wise
weren’t good at it either.

636
00:40:15,080 –> 00:40:20,680
They began pretty poorly, but
they increase in learning, they

637
00:40:20,680 –> 00:40:23,720
increase in their counsel, and
they get better at it.

638
00:40:23,720 –> 00:40:26,140
So that’s some wise counsel from
other brothers and sisters.

639
00:40:26,700 –> 00:40:29,140
When you are the giver, here’s
some enablers.

640
00:40:29,520 –> 00:40:31,320
You have that relationship of
trust.

641
00:40:31,740 –> 00:40:36,087
You actually have permission.
That doesn’t mean to say, do you

642
00:40:36,087 –> 00:40:37,440
have permission?
Good, here it is.

643
00:40:38,440 –> 00:40:41,620
No, do they really mentally, are
they switched on and they are

644
00:40:41,620 –> 00:40:44,240
open, giving you permission to
provide that?

645
00:40:45,340 –> 00:40:47,980
Is it all about helping them?
I’m the giver.

646
00:40:48,060 –> 00:40:53,340
Is it really all about them?
Is my counsel true, godly?

647
00:40:53,860 –> 00:40:55,580
Is it clear?
Is it useful?

648
00:40:56,440 –> 00:40:59,620
Those are some of the enablers.
If you’ve got others, love to

649
00:40:59,620 –> 00:41:01,880
hear them.
Barriers, I’m the giver.

650
00:41:02,140 –> 00:41:05,154
I’m coming to you.
I have some wise counsel that

651
00:41:05,154 –> 00:41:08,970
would be really useful for you
spiritually, but is it all about

652
00:41:08,970 –> 00:41:11,240
me?
I have an agenda here.

653
00:41:11,400 –> 00:41:13,260
I’m looking to control you in
some way.

654
00:41:13,840 –> 00:41:17,300
I’m looking for recognition.
I’m a wise counselor and

655
00:41:17,300 –> 00:41:21,780
advisor, you see. here’s a
barrier.

656
00:41:22,080 –> 00:41:24,650
I’ve just got bad style and
delivery and I can’t trust

657
00:41:24,650 –> 00:41:28,140
myself.
However, one of us don’t provide

658
00:41:28,140 –> 00:41:30,740
counsel because we can’t trust
ourselves to do it properly.

659
00:41:31,880 –> 00:41:35,220
So the wise develops the ability
to be a good giver.

660
00:41:35,280 –> 00:41:38,430
What about a reaction?
I tried it once, they reacted

661
00:41:38,430 –> 00:41:41,220
badly, they just started crying
and that always makes me feel

662
00:41:41,220 –> 00:41:42,600
uncomfortable.
They’re emotional.

663
00:41:42,720 –> 00:41:46,140
What do you do about this now?
I learned that from my kids as

664
00:41:46,140 –> 00:41:47,380
well.
Not my wife.

665
00:41:49,640 –> 00:41:54,230
My kids, you might not like me
if I say something and you

666
00:41:54,230 –> 00:41:56,930
perceive as negative you won’t
like me and we have these

667
00:41:56,930 –> 00:41:59,320
barriers of fear, don’t we?
But stop us doing it.

668
00:42:00,500 –> 00:42:02,640
So there’s some enablers and
barriers if we’re the giver.

669
00:42:02,820 –> 00:42:03,920
What about if we’re the
receiver?

670
00:42:04,260 –> 00:42:07,540
Here’s again some wisdom of
counsel from others.

671
00:42:10,460 –> 00:42:13,740
An enabler.
I trust this person, I know

672
00:42:13,740 –> 00:42:16,710
they’ve got my back, I know they
love me, they care about me, so

673
00:42:16,710 –> 00:42:21,120
now I’m open to receiving.
That counsel’s sensible, it’s

674
00:42:21,120 –> 00:42:26,480
true, it’s godly, it’s useful.
We all need to develop a filter,

675
00:42:26,580 –> 00:42:27,820
don’t we?
Because we’re going to receive a

676
00:42:27,820 –> 00:42:32,520
lot of counsel, wise counsel,
unsolicited opinion in life, and

677
00:42:32,520 –> 00:42:35,460
we need a filter.
Is it sensible, it’s true, it’s

678
00:42:35,460 –> 00:42:38,240
godly, it’s useful.
We’ve got to make sure that it

679
00:42:38,240 –> 00:42:42,600
is when we give and receive it.
I’ve got a spirit, I’m seeking

680
00:42:42,600 –> 00:42:44,540
counsel because I want to
improve and grow.

681
00:42:44,700 –> 00:42:47,720
I’m not seeing this as some
binary statement about whether

682
00:42:47,720 –> 00:42:50,940
I’m a good or bad person,
successful or not successful, I

683
00:42:50,940 –> 00:42:52,300
actually want to grow and
improve.

684
00:42:53,680 –> 00:42:56,650
Key enabler is a good listener,
you’ve got to listen to what’s

685
00:42:56,650 –> 00:43:00,600
being said.
Those talker thinkers find that

686
00:43:00,600 –> 00:43:03,520
difficult, right?
You’ve got to stop and listen

687
00:43:03,520 –> 00:43:06,680
carefully.
Or the barriers to being a

688
00:43:06,680 –> 00:43:11,010
receiver of wise counsel, it’s a
criticism, so I’m a good or bad

689
00:43:11,010 –> 00:43:13,160
person, that’s what it’s a
statement about, rather than

690
00:43:13,160 –> 00:43:16,240
improvement.
Or the delivery is poor, the

691
00:43:16,240 –> 00:43:19,340
words, tone, body language and
content when I’m a receiver, it

692
00:43:19,340 –> 00:43:21,740
just doesn’t work and it pushes
all my wrong buttons.

693
00:43:21,840 –> 00:43:24,800
I remember years ago someone who
was wise, not in a collegial

694
00:43:24,800 –> 00:43:28,040
context, but out in a corporate
context, said to me, your best

695
00:43:28,040 –> 00:43:30,220
feedback will come from those
who don’t like you.

696
00:43:31,880 –> 00:43:34,527
And what they meant was, they’ll
be unfiltered, they’ll just say

697
00:43:34,527 –> 00:43:36,860
it as it is.
Because all your friends will

698
00:43:36,860 –> 00:43:39,320
couch and hide it and not want
to upset you or hurt your

699
00:43:39,320 –> 00:43:42,740
feelings.
So there’s this issue of being

700
00:43:42,740 –> 00:43:46,600
able to look past the delivery
to understand the content of the

701
00:43:46,600 –> 00:43:48,740
feedback.
A wise person can do that

702
00:43:48,740 –> 00:43:50,500
regardless of who and how it
comes from.

703
00:43:50,840 –> 00:43:53,980
Or I was hurt before, someone
hurt me and so I’m all

704
00:43:53,980 –> 00:43:56,710
defensive.
So those are the key in

705
00:43:56,710 –> 00:43:59,007
neighbours and barriers other
brethren and sisters have come

706
00:43:59,007 –> 00:44:00,980
up with.
You may have some others.

707
00:44:01,880 –> 00:44:04,630
So what do we do with this?
Well here’s a suggestion and

708
00:44:04,630 –> 00:44:10,720
this one again is the result of
some wise counsel from others.

709
00:44:10,720 –> 00:44:15,620
So I’m going to have to note,
you’ll be very embarrassed on

710
00:44:15,620 –> 00:44:20,150
doing this, but brother John
Zhang, so he’s John and Annie

711
00:44:20,150 –> 00:44:23,000
have been to the Bible school in
the past, a Chinese brother and

712
00:44:23,000 –> 00:44:26,220
sister who live in Sydney now,
and he made this point to me and

713
00:44:26,220 –> 00:44:29,550
he called it circles of
influence which is a really good

714
00:44:29,550 –> 00:44:32,580
idea and I’ll explain it to you.
So here’s me in the middle, so

715
00:44:32,580 –> 00:44:35,060
it’s the first time it’s ever
allowable to put Yumi in the

716
00:44:35,060 –> 00:44:38,640
centre of anything.
There it is, me, and these are

717
00:44:38,640 –> 00:44:43,300
the people that influence me or
that I influence in life, right?

718
00:44:43,420 –> 00:44:46,680
So the first circle is the
people that I influence a lot in

719
00:44:46,680 –> 00:44:51,220
life and those who influence me
a lot, then those I influence

720
00:44:51,220 –> 00:44:55,940
sometimes or influence me
sometimes, and then a little and

721
00:44:55,940 –> 00:44:58,780
then there’s everybody else.
And if you actually put the

722
00:44:58,780 –> 00:45:01,120
people that you know in this,
you’ll find that there’s a few

723
00:45:01,120 –> 00:45:04,340
that sit in the centre, a few
that sit in the centre, and a

724
00:45:04,340 –> 00:45:08,220
few that sit around sometimes,
and our circle that we influence

725
00:45:08,220 –> 00:45:10,600
and influence by is actually
quite tight and small.

726
00:45:11,640 –> 00:45:15,940
Now the point of that is, well
if we want to start on this, we

727
00:45:15,940 –> 00:45:18,660
should approach the people who
are close to us, people we

728
00:45:18,660 –> 00:45:21,780
influence a lot, people who
influence us a lot, and maybe

729
00:45:21,780 –> 00:45:26,440
say I want to be good at giving
wise counsel and receiving it,

730
00:45:26,820 –> 00:45:29,660
and enter a partnership with
them, say I want to develop this

731
00:45:29,660 –> 00:45:32,360
ability, I’m not very good at
it, but can you help me here,

732
00:45:32,580 –> 00:45:37,130
and maybe we start with giving
or receiving, just go and ask

733
00:45:37,130 –> 00:45:40,680
for counsel, and we begin like
that, rather the next step of

734
00:45:40,680 –> 00:45:42,500
giving it, that’s a little bit
more difficult.

735
00:45:45,300 –> 00:45:48,810
So we can put this into practice
quite quickly, but we’re getting

736
00:45:48,810 –> 00:45:53,100
to develop a culture and ability
to provide wise counsel and to

737
00:45:53,100 –> 00:45:56,400
receive wise counsel in our
lives, in our families, in our

738
00:45:56,400 –> 00:46:00,310
ecclesias.
If you’re struggling for a

739
00:46:00,310 –> 00:46:06,580
subject that you might want to
start with around wise counsel,

740
00:46:06,680 –> 00:46:09,880
maybe you start with it, keep it
in the book of proverbs, I

741
00:46:09,880 –> 00:46:12,960
promise up here so you know I’m
an expert and I’m allowed to

742
00:46:12,960 –> 00:46:16,740
talk about this.
I have a certificate in it.

743
00:46:19,640 –> 00:46:21,600
It’s a certificate in
procrastination.

744
00:46:22,940 –> 00:46:27,980
I’m expert.
Big procrastination, small ones,

745
00:46:28,820 –> 00:46:30,440
just go and have a look at my
backyard, there are

746
00:46:30,440 –> 00:46:37,200
procrastination projects all
over it. things, big deadlines

747
00:46:37,200 –> 00:46:39,120
coming along, I’ve built all
sorts of things.

748
00:46:39,600 –> 00:46:41,640
I’ve built a retaining wall,
I’ve built a shed, I’ve built a

749
00:46:41,640 –> 00:46:44,660
cabin, I’ve built a spa sheller,
I’ve built all sorts of things.

750
00:46:45,220 –> 00:46:48,500
They’re my procrastination
projects, so I’m expert at it.

751
00:46:48,560 –> 00:46:51,700
But the book of Proverbs talks
about this, talks about

752
00:46:51,700 –> 00:46:55,380
slothfulness all over the place.
It identifies as a

753
00:46:55,380 –> 00:46:57,980
characteristic of the wise that
they’re not, they’re diligent,

754
00:46:58,140 –> 00:47:01,630
they get on to things, they do
things, but the full, they

755
00:47:01,630 –> 00:47:04,680
sleep, they procrastinate,
they’re lazy.

756
00:47:06,440 –> 00:47:08,520
I found this one particularly
hard hitting.

757
00:47:08,840 –> 00:47:12,740
So, there you go, possibly for
the brethren, maybe we could

758
00:47:12,740 –> 00:47:15,760
start with this, the subject of
slothfulness and

759
00:47:15,760 –> 00:47:21,694
procrastination.
Alright, but let’s think about

760
00:47:21,694 –> 00:47:27,730
it this way.
Our Heavenly Father is the one

761
00:47:27,730 –> 00:47:32,740
who provides us correction,
reproof, and counsel.

762
00:47:33,860 –> 00:47:37,570
And Isaiah chapter 11, verse 1
to 10, talks about the Lord

763
00:47:37,570 –> 00:47:40,740
Jesus Christ and the spirit of
God upon and the spirit of

764
00:47:40,740 –> 00:47:43,640
knowledge, understanding,
wisdom, might, and of counsel.

765
00:47:45,540 –> 00:47:48,820
So, in this relationship with
our Heavenly Father, as he

766
00:47:48,820 –> 00:47:52,400
provides us correction, reproof,
and counsel through his word of

767
00:47:52,400 –> 00:47:55,580
truth, the scripture from
Genesis to Revelation, by the

768
00:47:55,580 –> 00:47:59,490
sufferings and trials that we go
through in life, by the deep

769
00:47:59,490 –> 00:48:02,920
wisdom and counsel from our
brethren and sisters around us.

770
00:48:03,880 –> 00:48:08,480
In this relationship, God is our
giver, and we are the receiver.

771
00:48:09,600 –> 00:48:12,360
Let’s just think about these for
a moment, in our relationship

772
00:48:12,360 –> 00:48:16,080
with our Heavenly Father.
Is there trust?

773
00:48:16,200 –> 00:48:18,180
Do we trust him?
He knows what he’s doing?

774
00:48:21,500 –> 00:48:25,627
Do we listen to him?
Biblically seeing things in our

775
00:48:25,627 –> 00:48:28,080
life, perceiving it, is
listening to him?

776
00:48:31,120 –> 00:48:33,900
Do we think about our
relationship with the Father as

777
00:48:33,900 –> 00:48:36,214
about growth?
He’s instructing us, correcting

778
00:48:36,214 –> 00:48:39,680
us to make us wiser, or do we
see it as a judgment about

779
00:48:39,680 –> 00:48:44,334
whether we’re good or bad?
Or are we developing the spirit

780
00:48:44,334 –> 00:48:47,370
where we come to the Father and
say, see if there’s any evil

781
00:48:47,370 –> 00:48:49,680
thing within me.
Purge it from me.

782
00:48:49,880 –> 00:48:51,700
I want the correction, the
reproof.

783
00:48:51,920 –> 00:48:56,900
I want to be received as a son.
can we see the purpose?

784
00:48:59,460 –> 00:49:01,660
Can we see he’s doing it for our
good?

785
00:49:02,940 –> 00:49:07,640
Can we see in his correction
that there are peaceable fruits

786
00:49:07,640 –> 00:49:12,160
of righteousness at the end?
Do we really understand that the

787
00:49:12,160 –> 00:49:16,280
Father’s motivation is a love
for his children and for his

788
00:49:16,280 –> 00:49:22,100
son?
So there’s a spirit, isn’t

789
00:49:22,100 –> 00:49:24,320
there, of the child or the son
revealed in the book of Proverbs

790
00:49:24,320 –> 00:49:27,730
and their relationship with the
father as they accept his

791
00:49:27,730 –> 00:49:31,740
correction and reproof.
Let’s look at two beautiful

792
00:49:31,740 –> 00:49:35,280
passages now as we bring these
thoughts to a close.

793
00:49:36,600 –> 00:49:40,940
The first is in James 3 13-18,
so let’s turn that up.

794
00:49:44,580 –> 00:49:47,220
And as we read through this,
you’ll see that the passage is

795
00:49:47,220 –> 00:49:49,760
all built on the book of
Proverbs.

796
00:49:49,960 –> 00:49:54,020
It’s ideas, it’s a passage about
wisdom and what wisdom is and

797
00:49:54,020 –> 00:49:56,400
isn’t and what wisdom is in
practice.

798
00:49:57,260 –> 00:50:02,860
And in James 3 13-18, his
delivery of this exposition of

799
00:50:02,860 –> 00:50:05,860
wisdom and practice is done in
the context of conflict.

800
00:50:08,180 –> 00:50:12,900
So James 13-18, who is a wise
man?

801
00:50:13,740 –> 00:50:15,620
That’s our question from
Proverbs, isn’t it?

802
00:50:15,620 –> 00:50:20,140
who is a wise man endued with
knowledge?

803
00:50:20,780 –> 00:50:22,760
Oh, that’s a Proverbs idea among
you.

804
00:50:23,720 –> 00:50:30,100
Let him show out of a good way
of life his works with meekness

805
00:50:30,100 –> 00:50:33,240
of wisdom.
Says James, there’s a humility

806
00:50:33,240 –> 00:50:39,140
involved in being a wise person
who outworks their knowledge and

807
00:50:39,140 –> 00:50:41,720
comprehension and their
behaviours. truth.

808
00:50:41,720 –> 00:50:49,050
But, if you have bitter envy and
strife in your hearts, glory

809
00:50:49,050 –> 00:50:51,660
not, do not lie against the
truth.

810
00:50:51,760 –> 00:50:55,520
What truth?
Well, the truth that a wise man

811
00:50:55,520 –> 00:50:59,480
has in their way of life works
that show the meekness of

812
00:50:59,480 –> 00:51:01,540
wisdom.
And if you have bitter envy and

813
00:51:01,540 –> 00:51:03,560
strife, you’re denying that
truth.

814
00:51:03,760 –> 00:51:09,200
You’re saying it’s a lie.
That wisdom, verse 15, does not

815
00:51:09,200 –> 00:51:13,780
descend from above, but is
earthly, sensual, devilish, for

816
00:51:13,780 –> 00:51:18,020
where envying and strife is,
there is confusion and every

817
00:51:18,020 –> 00:51:20,620
evil work.
That’s Proverbs.

818
00:51:20,840 –> 00:51:24,550
But the wisdom from above, the
wisdom of Proverbs, is first

819
00:51:24,550 –> 00:51:27,560
pure.
That is, is first pure in the

820
00:51:27,560 –> 00:51:29,080
giver.
We know that because it’s

821
00:51:29,080 –> 00:51:32,650
referring to verse 13.
Show out of a good way of life

822
00:51:32,650 –> 00:51:34,700
the works with meekness of
wisdom.

823
00:51:34,700 –> 00:51:38,080
First you need to be that pure
in giving.

824
00:51:38,880 –> 00:51:43,554
Then it will manifest as
peaceable, gentle, easy to be

825
00:51:43,554 –> 00:51:47,170
entreated, full of mercy and
good fruits, without partiality

826
00:51:47,170 –> 00:51:51,480
and without hypocrisy.
Two big themes of the book of

827
00:51:51,480 –> 00:51:53,800
Proverbs.
So that the fruit of

828
00:51:53,800 –> 00:51:59,134
righteousness, the peaceable
fruits of righteousness, are the

829
00:51:59,134 –> 00:52:01,360
end result of chastening, says
Hebrews.

830
00:52:02,180 –> 00:52:07,310
The fruit of that righteousness
will be sown in peace of those

831
00:52:07,310 –> 00:52:11,590
who make peace.
So the book of James is telling

832
00:52:11,590 –> 00:52:15,980
us that the characteristics of
the wise, when you see them

833
00:52:15,980 –> 00:52:20,394
manifest, the test for us to
know whether we’ve got it and we

834
00:52:20,394 –> 00:52:24,900
know and understand and are
putting it into practice, the

835
00:52:24,900 –> 00:52:28,334
discernment between good and
evil and are choosing the good

836
00:52:28,334 –> 00:52:32,100
and rejecting the evil is
whether we are peaceable,

837
00:52:32,100 –> 00:52:38,110
gentle, easy to be entreated,
full of mercy, good fruits,

838
00:52:38,110 –> 00:52:41,020
without partiality and without
hypocrisy.

839
00:52:41,500 –> 00:52:45,000
That’s what James is telling us.
And if we take it back to

840
00:52:45,000 –> 00:52:49,320
Hebrews chapter 12 verse 10 to
13, now we can see why he’s

841
00:52:49,320 –> 00:52:52,520
picking up this idea of the
peaceable fruit of

842
00:52:52,520 –> 00:52:55,380
righteousness.
It’s our actions and behaviours

843
00:52:55,380 –> 00:52:59,900
in the end are right, not wrong,
they’re good, not evil, and

844
00:52:59,900 –> 00:53:05,400
there is peace.
For they verily for a few days

845
00:53:05,400 –> 00:53:08,110
chastened us, says the writer of
Hebrews, after their own

846
00:53:08,110 –> 00:53:12,120
pleasure, but God, he’s
chastening us through his word,

847
00:53:13,040 –> 00:53:17,710
through our sufferings and
sorrows, through the deep

848
00:53:17,710 –> 00:53:20,620
counsel and wisdom that’s
available for those around us,

849
00:53:21,120 –> 00:53:24,680
so that we might be partakers of
his holiness.

850
00:53:25,420 –> 00:53:29,400
That’s why he’s doing it.
Now, none of our chastening,

851
00:53:29,520 –> 00:53:33,640
none of our suffering seems to
be joyous, but grievous,

852
00:53:33,920 –> 00:53:38,240
sorrowful.
Nevertheless, afterward it

853
00:53:38,240 –> 00:53:42,800
yields the peaceable fruit of
righteousness to those who are

854
00:53:42,800 –> 00:53:49,240
exercised by it.
It’s exercising us, it’s

855
00:53:49,240 –> 00:53:52,620
creating us, it’s turning us
into his children.

856
00:53:54,100 –> 00:53:58,080
Wherefore, because we understand
the goal and the aim and why God

857
00:53:58,080 –> 00:54:02,640
does it and his motivation and
that we can trust him, in

858
00:54:02,640 –> 00:54:08,810
whatever your sorrow, your
trial, your difficulty, your

859
00:54:08,810 –> 00:54:11,370
chastening, your correction
under the heavenly father’s

860
00:54:11,370 –> 00:54:16,560
hand, lift up your hands if they
hang down, strengthen feeble

861
00:54:16,560 –> 00:54:21,620
knees, make straight paths for
your feet and for your faith.

862
00:54:22,700 –> 00:54:25,320
Let’s conclude with these words
of the father to the son.

863
00:54:26,360 –> 00:54:30,160
Proverbs chapter 3.
My son, forget not my law.

864
00:54:31,300 –> 00:54:33,440
Let thine heart keep my
commandments.

865
00:54:34,440 –> 00:54:37,660
For length of days, long life
and peace they will add to thee.

866
00:54:38,660 –> 00:54:43,100
Trust in Yahweh.
Trust with all your heart.

867
00:54:43,860 –> 00:54:46,120
Do not lean to your own
understanding.

868
00:54:47,320 –> 00:54:48,800
You won’t be able to figure it
out.

869
00:54:50,680 –> 00:54:54,900
Trust and in all your ways
acknowledge him.

870
00:54:54,900 –> 00:55:01,050
Have a mindset, a spirit of mind
that in everything you do, you

871
00:55:01,050 –> 00:55:06,480
acknowledge God’s got it in
control and he will direct our

872
00:55:06,480 –> 00:55:09,060
paths.
We don’t have to do it

873
00:55:09,060 –> 00:55:11,920
ourselves.
In fact, we can’t.

874
00:55:13,140 –> 00:55:16,060
We need to trust him to direct
our paths in life.

875
00:55:17,060 –> 00:55:22,060
My son, he says, do not despise
the chastening of Yahweh,

876
00:55:22,160 –> 00:55:23,700
neither be wary of his
correction.

877
00:55:25,320 –> 00:55:30,060
For whoever Yahweh loves, he
corrects, even as a father the

878
00:55:30,060 –> 00:55:31,180
son in whom he delights.