093: Harry Tennant – Ecclesial Eldership: Solving Problems

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Welcome to the good Christian
talks podcast.

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I’m Levi.
And I’m Chris.

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Thank you so much for joining us
this week.

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On this podcast, we select one
taco week to help each one of

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us.
Get the Bible in our daily news

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feed.
We post at the start of each

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week for you to listen.
With a short intro beforehand to

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kind of set the stage for the
talk, you’re about to hear.

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And now let’s hear more about
this week’s talk.

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Today’s class is called solving
problems by Brother, Harry

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tenant.
It’s from a series, he did on

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called a collegial leadership.
This is from 1987.

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And he the actually, the
information for the where the

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talk was presented is not on
Chris laughing talks.com.

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But he says right at the end of
this actual class that it’s

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presented at Bucks, County
Pennsylvania in 1987 very much

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enjoyed this series.
This it is a you know he

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addresses a lot of very
interesting and helpful very

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practical Intercollegiate, all
topics.

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I felt this class was kind of
had the most interesting pieces

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for us as a closure of members
to apply.

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I think, I don’t know how often
Chris.

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I need to use this disclaimer
because I think all of us, you

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know, anyone would feel the same
way that I personally just don’t

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agree with absolutely The thing
that brother Harry tenant says

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but in this class, but that’s
also been true for other classes

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that we presented.
I don’t think you need to agree

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with everything that you hear to
recognize it as a as a really

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good and useful talk.
So I still think it’s a again,

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an incredibly helpful study.
But also also just interesting

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being that it is now 33 years
old and, you know, it’s kind of

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a snapshot, a little bit of a
snapshot back in time as Some

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recommendations he makes are
just outdated but it’s a again,

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really, excellent talk, I’m
really excited to share it.

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Please reach out to us.
As you as you all have continued

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to do.
So providing I’m toxic stations

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for us to use for the show.
And thank you so much for

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listening.
Here is solving problems by her

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tenant.
On the subject of ecclesial,

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eldership, taking heed to all
the flock.

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We are pleased to have our
brother Harry tenant of the

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Watford England.
Ecclesia address us.

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Now in this fourth session which
is entitled dealing with

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problems, brother tenant.
This time in a study date.

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My dear brother or sisters
brethren.

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At least some of us were awake.
We discovered that our powers of

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concentration of greatly
diminished and that we listen to

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what we want to listen to.
And the rest goes over our

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heads.
However, the last session that

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you’ve had together in
discussing problems, has in

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fact, been a perfect
illustration of working as a

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team rather than seeking, to
solve a problem as one

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individual, I read through all
of those.

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Problem cases.
I’m not sure he’s thought of

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what I would do as an individual
and I was surprised at the

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extent to which the teams
together had.

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In fact, produce a range of
thought and sometimes of

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options.
All of which were both

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stimulating and I believe
helpful.

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Let us take then simple.
Extremely simple things which

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help us to distance ourselves
from the problem in order that

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we might look at it?
The first thing is to remember

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that the Lord Jesus Christ is in
charge of the occasions.

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In other words, our problem is
his problem.

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This helps tremendously in
singing to solving.

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I remember living our own
occasion, we had a problem that

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was what it seemed that they
would be.

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Such trouble in seeking to solve
it.

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That we wrestled with it for a
long time.

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In my own mind, I did not arrive
at that kind of contentment that

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helps to deal with a matter that
stabilizing satisfaction until I

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had actually gone in prayer and
said Lord this is your problem.

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Who is seeking to Soul?
I’m thinking his Blessing, so

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it’s good to remember just stand
back and remember that before

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ever, the problem arose, the
Lord knew it was going to arise.

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And therefore, he has made
provision amongst his faithful.

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That they will be able to cope
with that.

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We just happened.
We are not tried above that that

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we are able to bear and
therefore the Lord God, the Lord

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Jesus Christ.
The angels are at work that we

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might be able to deal with those
things that arrive inside the

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occasion.
The next thing is, and this is,

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this too, is just distancing
oneself.

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We are a Christian delphian
occasion.

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It is not open to us to provide
other options than those.

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Our community.
In other words, we are moving

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within our community, but all
kinds of ways of solving

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problems, like marriage
counselors will tell.

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Couples.
How to solve their problem?

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They may say were the best thing
you can do is in fact to go your

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Separate Ways.
Or one of the counselors may say

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to 11 people confidentially.
I think the best thing you can

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do is to leave her.
Now, these are not options that

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are open to us.
Because we have to solve our

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problems within the context of
scripture.

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What would the Lord Jesus
Christ?

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Say as Brother, David Jennings
said, When he was reporting on

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what his group and done.
So, those are two things.

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The third thing is this what you
have discovered, what we all

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discover is that it is easier to
solve a problem together than to

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try to solve it alone.
That those heads together in the

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group, although they didn’t go
work at the same speed or all

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perceive the problem from the
same angle on this impossible,

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to do that to proceed.
Everything from the same angle.

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Although that happened, what
happened in the end was that

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they were contributions that
proved helpful and I’m sure

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though I was not present in any
one of the group’s.

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I am sure that those Solutions
did not come from one individual

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in any group.
What happened while I was it as

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they discussion started to flow
and someone made a suggestion,

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then somebody said are well.
Now in that case, in other

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words, what happens is we have
combined Fellowship sinking.

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Now they were all theoretical
problems and therefore we became

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involved in them.
As are you find on any kind, of

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course, that people go to, they
always become involved in the

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actual thing that is given to
them, but the thing that is

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given to them is not the
problem.

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That isn’t the problem.
The problem is, how to deal with

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problems.
And these were just illustrators

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of how to do it so we haven’t
got to go home.

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And so what on Earth would I do
with that?

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Thirty thousand dollar mortgage,
then how would I solve that?

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Because that problem doesn’t
exist we have been site into

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thinking it does and it was good
that that was that was useful

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and all of us went straight in
and had a look at each of those

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things as a real problem but
they were only imaginary

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problems or I suppose there was
a touch of truth that somebody

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said I had we had something like
that.

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I remember in our Ecclesia and
it from another occasion

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something like it. well, they
ranged over if you noticed the

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problems that have to do with
Relationships within the

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Ecclesia relationships between,
and among decreases

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relationships between husband
and wife relationships with the

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world.
They were not so far as I can

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remember.
Specifically, except in the case

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of the Ecclesia that decided
that it would not withdraw from

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anybody under any circumstances.
There were not many instances in

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those questions of something
that was completely off the

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rails doctrinally, there were
hints of those things but that

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those didn’t feature
prominently, they do not feature

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so prominently these days as
they used to because we are

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caught up in this terrible in
Vortex of our world.

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It’s sucking us down into all
kinds of moral problems within

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the occasion.
Here are the four headings I use

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in order to have a look at a
problem.

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And the best thing always is to
have a piece of paper in order

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to set it down.
I was very interested and it’s

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totally American.
I was very interested.

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I doubt whether there was any
one of those four boards that

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ever suggested a letter, That’s
probably because your personal

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system isn’t totally reliable.
And if you’re sending it to

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Canada, it’s worse still.
All right, but Americans don’t

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write letters.
It’s out of the phone or the

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modem or the Telex but very
rarely writing letters.

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The advantage of writing letters
is you’ve got to set down your

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ideas and that clarifies them.
That clarifies the map helps to

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focus the mind if I can’t say it
on paper.

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I don’t understand it.
I might have all kinds of

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feelings about it and I can’t
say it on paper, in some way.

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I don’t understand it.
It’s any problems down.

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I get a piece of paper and draw
a line down the middle and do

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the pros, and the cons this for
that against, and keep on going

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down it.
But here are the four headings

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that I have.
What am I trying to do about

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this problem?
In other words, what is my

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objective?
Not the immediate objective

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about the 30,000 thing?
What am I trying to do with the

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person’s concern?
That was the real problem.

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The problem wasn’t the money.
That person has several partners

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because somebody had created a
deadline and it had an urgency

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about it but that wasn’t the
problem.

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The problem was how inverted
these people get into this

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condition.
Now why aren’t they in contact

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with our occasion more than they
have been recently?

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That was the basic problem so on
needs to know what is the real

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problem?
What am I trying to do about the

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problem?
Secondly, what do I need to know

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in order to do what I want to
do?

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Sadly, how am I going to do?
What I want to do, what is my

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plan?
What is, what is the way of

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approach to it?
unfortunately, how do I

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implement it and when And
fifthly.

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Review it.
Go back, over it later on and

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have a look at it.
And see whether in fact, we did

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the right thing in doing what we
did.

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So those are just standard kinds
of approaches in problem

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solving, I find them helpful
because when after all they’re

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just common sense but it’s good
to set them down because you

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sometimes find yourself jumping
to how to do it before.

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You know what it is you’re
trying to do or have I got the

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information or when And the
crisscrossing of these things,

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only confuses if you care to get
this little book is out.

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Of y’all binder.
You may find it helpful.

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This is taking heed to the
occasion of God.

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On page 60.
You’ll see that they’re there

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are set out eight items.
As a practical method of

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approaching the problem is it
doesn’t claim to be the only

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method.
This happens to be a talk that I

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gave so I can use it freely, it
doesn’t claim to be the only

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method it claims to be a method.
Now goes through it and check

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whether when you tackle your
problem in the group, You

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applied any or all of these?
I’ve never extra ones real.

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Well, there was a better one
that we could have had on these

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eight or in addition to the
relief.

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So keep it and use it.
So the first one was and you saw

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the groups all trying to do this
ascertain, all of the facts we

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didn’t find a groups taking the
next part.

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And assess their relative
importance.

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Not all things are as important
as the others.

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There are things that you can
say what we can.

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We can set that on one side
sometimes in solving a problem.

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We try to solve all of it.
As a matter of fact, sometimes

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there are parts that we can
leave and say we’ll come back to

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that later on.
Second pursue patiently

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thoroughly and firmly the
scriptural procedure.

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Designed to remove the problem
in the right manner.

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The groups that what I remember
did that they had people who

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were going to look at the
scriptures, it’s good to have it

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high on the list.
In fact, in a group of five

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arranging Brethren, it is good,
that one can have to, to do the

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fact-finding on the case and to,
to have a look at it, from a

222
00:15:22,600 –> 00:15:25,500
structural point of view
Puritan, scripture what the

223
00:15:25,500 –> 00:15:29,600
scriptures say about this.
And those who are using the

224
00:15:29,600 –> 00:15:33,800
scripture, then not finding
their thinking tinged with the

225
00:15:33,800 –> 00:15:35,500
actual problem.
They’re looking at what

226
00:15:35,500 –> 00:15:38,900
scripture says and those are
doing the fact-finding are not

227
00:15:38,900 –> 00:15:42,000
having to confuse themselves at
that time by saying, well, the

228
00:15:42,008 –> 00:15:45,700
scriptures said these things and
these facts, won’t matter.

229
00:15:45,700 –> 00:15:51,100
Find out all of the facts, they
do matter sometimes within a

230
00:15:51,100 –> 00:15:55,600
problem effect emerges later on,
which is the whole answer to the

231
00:15:55,600 –> 00:15:57,400
problem and it wasn’t there at
the beginning.

232
00:15:58,300 –> 00:16:03,700
It was not there at the
beginning. you may find, for

233
00:16:03,700 –> 00:16:07,800
example, somebody who has
Suffered abuse when they were a

234
00:16:07,800 –> 00:16:11,600
child.
They may not be willing ever to

235
00:16:11,600 –> 00:16:15,200
talk about that until they find
themselves coming to the end of

236
00:16:15,200 –> 00:16:18,000
the line.
Now, you may have been trying to

237
00:16:18,008 –> 00:16:20,500
solve the problem by all kinds
of other methods when you

238
00:16:20,500 –> 00:16:25,100
suddenly discover that, there’s
a lurking fear, a sense of

239
00:16:25,100 –> 00:16:29,200
degradation.
A sense of contamination, a

240
00:16:29,200 –> 00:16:32,100
sense of wanting to keep away
from other people that the

241
00:16:32,100 –> 00:16:36,900
person may have just because of
that, kind of fact.

242
00:16:37,100 –> 00:16:40,900
So pursue patiently on that
means very careful.

243
00:16:40,900 –> 00:16:44,600
Talking with the people
concerned, not assuming any

244
00:16:44,600 –> 00:16:48,300
Authority or assuming that we
know the answers, nor even

245
00:16:48,300 –> 00:16:50,100
assuming we know what the
problem is.

246
00:16:51,200 –> 00:16:53,600
A husband and wife were
involved, it is good to hear

247
00:16:53,600 –> 00:16:58,600
both of them talking.
Each of them talking Do it

248
00:16:58,600 –> 00:17:01,200
together, if possible.
But when going through it, say,

249
00:17:03,100 –> 00:17:07,099
That’s how you see it better.
Is it Jim’s give them.

250
00:17:07,099 –> 00:17:10,900
They, well then she says, well,
that’s not not quite how I see

251
00:17:10,900 –> 00:17:14,099
it because there’s the children.
And then you begin to see that,

252
00:17:14,099 –> 00:17:18,400
there’s another angle on the
problem, but just pursue slowly

253
00:17:18,400 –> 00:17:21,800
and can do it.
People case seen you in dealing

254
00:17:21,800 –> 00:17:27,900
with the problem.
A problem has arrived, most

255
00:17:27,900 –> 00:17:31,400
things, most dates that we fix
our artificial.

256
00:17:32,700 –> 00:17:34,400
They’re just things that are in
our own mind.

257
00:17:34,400 –> 00:17:36,400
We must get this cleared as
quickly as possible.

258
00:17:36,900 –> 00:17:40,300
Now, to many Brethren sisters
clearing a problem as quickly as

259
00:17:40,300 –> 00:17:43,000
possible is opening the
occasional door and sweeping it

260
00:17:43,000 –> 00:17:46,000
out.
I no longer have the problem.

261
00:17:47,800 –> 00:17:49,700
We have got rid of the person
concerned.

262
00:17:51,000 –> 00:17:55,600
The problem is still there.
That person concerned is outside

263
00:17:55,600 –> 00:17:57,300
the occasion, and that’s a
problem.

264
00:17:59,400 –> 00:18:02,200
We lost a sheep and it wasn’t
ours either.

265
00:18:04,200 –> 00:18:09,300
We try to account for it.
We have to account for our

266
00:18:09,300 –> 00:18:13,100
sheep.
Before the Lord God that’s the

267
00:18:13,100 –> 00:18:19,400
nature of the work of eldership
of being an arranging brother in

268
00:18:19,408 –> 00:18:22,000
the fact that we’ve got the
person outside may keep the

269
00:18:22,000 –> 00:18:27,600
meeting room clean but it need
not be the right answer.

270
00:18:29,000 –> 00:18:31,900
It sometimes is the answer.
We have to go through that

271
00:18:31,900 –> 00:18:35,800
process.
So, avoid being rushed.

272
00:18:37,200 –> 00:18:40,400
We had a major problem in our
Ecclesia in Watford, a number of

273
00:18:40,400 –> 00:18:43,400
years ago, that Disturbed the
Brotherhood all over the world.

274
00:18:46,300 –> 00:18:49,500
and consequently, there were
articles published in magazines,

275
00:18:49,500 –> 00:18:54,400
and All kinds of letters
received by the arranging

276
00:18:54,400 –> 00:18:57,100
Brethren, all kinds of letters.
If you don’t deal with this,

277
00:18:57,100 –> 00:18:59,800
then why, well, how is it that
you’re not having this problem

278
00:18:59,800 –> 00:19:01,300
right away?
It’s pretty clear, isn’t it?

279
00:19:01,300 –> 00:19:03,700
This is what this is what should
be done and he should not be.

280
00:19:03,700 –> 00:19:07,400
They’re all breaking bread with
you and all the letters come in

281
00:19:07,400 –> 00:19:10,800
and everybody outside in another
occasion sees it.

282
00:19:10,800 –> 00:19:13,800
So simply the problem is simple,
it’s like bringing up other

283
00:19:13,800 –> 00:19:17,600
people’s children.
There is no problem with other

284
00:19:17,600 –> 00:19:22,600
people’s children.
It took us two years to deal

285
00:19:22,600 –> 00:19:26,900
with that problem.
And we refuse to be hasty.

286
00:19:28,600 –> 00:19:30,300
We finally withdrew from the
brother.

287
00:19:32,100 –> 00:19:35,500
But there was nothing that the
brother could say all his family

288
00:19:35,500 –> 00:19:38,600
could say.
All that we could ever reproach

289
00:19:38,600 –> 00:19:43,300
ourselves with.
It was able to then at some

290
00:19:43,300 –> 00:19:47,200
future time to be brought up and
said you failed in that respect.

291
00:19:47,200 –> 00:19:51,200
We may have failed, but it was
not, it was not through, not

292
00:19:51,200 –> 00:19:54,800
handling the whole on.
The problem, we had to write to

293
00:19:54,800 –> 00:19:57,600
all these people who get
writing, assuring them, it would

294
00:19:57,600 –> 00:19:59,700
be me with the problem and they
do not believe you.

295
00:20:02,300 –> 00:20:04,400
We do community of Facebook.
We don’t believe one another.

296
00:20:05,600 –> 00:20:08,700
Very interesting and we’re
actually, we weren’t spending

297
00:20:09,100 –> 00:20:11,900
every week.
We were spending, I would say,

298
00:20:12,000 –> 00:20:16,600
10 hours a week.
Dealing with this matter, it was

299
00:20:16,600 –> 00:20:20,400
a complex matter.
They thought it was all about

300
00:20:20,400 –> 00:20:23,700
evolution.
That’s that’s what other people

301
00:20:23,700 –> 00:20:25,800
said it’s Eeveelution.
And we don’t believe any Rouge

302
00:20:25,800 –> 00:20:29,700
would live in creation even if
should never enter into our

303
00:20:29,700 –> 00:20:31,500
consideration because it wasn’t
the problem.

304
00:20:32,400 –> 00:20:36,300
The problem was the atonement.
That was a problem.

305
00:20:36,300 –> 00:20:38,600
We had to solve, but it had to
be sold.

306
00:20:38,600 –> 00:20:42,000
And so, we took time, we pursued
patiently, thoroughly and

307
00:20:42,000 –> 00:20:45,400
firmly, and we did a lot of it
by writing.

308
00:20:46,700 –> 00:20:50,300
They can absolutely sure that
what we were saying, was crystal

309
00:20:50,300 –> 00:20:56,100
clear to the person concerned.
Do not assume that when you

310
00:20:56,100 –> 00:20:58,700
speak to him, he hears what you
say.

311
00:21:01,200 –> 00:21:03,400
You said it and you know what
you mean.

312
00:21:03,900 –> 00:21:08,000
He heard it.
He may have another meaning and

313
00:21:08,000 –> 00:21:13,900
therefore a letter helps to make
things clear. and what is more a

314
00:21:13,908 –> 00:21:17,400
letter on file is something that
all the arranging Brethren have

315
00:21:18,800 –> 00:21:22,700
and one can look back at and
say, oh, but we did say this and

316
00:21:22,700 –> 00:21:26,200
it is surprising in dealing with
the problem how we forget the

317
00:21:26,200 –> 00:21:31,300
stages through which, we’ve been
So, careful notes and prayer the

318
00:21:31,300 –> 00:21:35,000
whole way.
So items 3 avoid being rushed

319
00:21:35,000 –> 00:21:38,300
whilst at the same time making
sure the problem does not spread

320
00:21:40,100 –> 00:21:42,100
I’m sorry.
This is a doctrinal problem

321
00:21:43,100 –> 00:21:44,500
whilst it is being dealt with
then.

322
00:21:44,500 –> 00:21:50,400
One brings the guillotine down.
On the person who may have been

323
00:21:50,400 –> 00:21:54,100
spreading false Doctrine and
say, you must not speak in the

324
00:21:54,100 –> 00:21:57,200
occasion.
That is a safeguard whilst we

325
00:21:57,200 –> 00:22:00,400
examine this.
We are sure he’s benefit you and

326
00:22:00,400 –> 00:22:04,200
it is better for us.
Well, that clears the lines.

327
00:22:07,100 –> 00:22:11,900
Item 4, where the problem is
deep or complex.

328
00:22:11,900 –> 00:22:16,800
In other words, it’s not a
simple problem that is hard like

329
00:22:18,200 –> 00:22:20,200
owning a hundred thousand
dollars and there’s no other

330
00:22:20,200 –> 00:22:23,300
problem but just owing a hundred
thousand dollars by some

331
00:22:23,500 –> 00:22:26,000
mischance.
All right.

332
00:22:27,200 –> 00:22:32,100
Somebody who is not insured.
Set into the road.

333
00:22:33,800 –> 00:22:37,800
And causes some kind of accident
on some other person who is not

334
00:22:37,800 –> 00:22:42,100
in a car is injured.
And we’re finally pursued by

335
00:22:42,100 –> 00:22:46,700
law.
And finally, the judge says, all

336
00:22:46,708 –> 00:22:49,900
the jury say this 100 thousand
dollars you got to pay.

337
00:22:50,900 –> 00:22:53,900
Now that might have only just
mean by a freak of accident, but

338
00:22:53,900 –> 00:22:56,900
that’s a simple problem.
Although it’s a large one in the

339
00:22:56,908 –> 00:22:59,900
sense of how much money is
involved, but when you got a

340
00:22:59,900 –> 00:23:03,200
deep pore complex problem where
it’s not easy to get to grips

341
00:23:03,200 –> 00:23:07,600
with it, I’m not all arranging
Brethren St at the same level.

342
00:23:09,900 –> 00:23:15,100
Then devote special meetings to
it with no other business.

343
00:23:17,700 –> 00:23:23,500
Just discuss that problem alone.
All right, and the two Brethren

344
00:23:23,500 –> 00:23:26,400
that you asked to have a look at
the problem.

345
00:23:26,500 –> 00:23:31,100
Let them talk.
To tell you how it looks, what

346
00:23:31,100 –> 00:23:32,500
they see.
And then question them.

347
00:23:33,600 –> 00:23:35,200
But what did they say about
this?

348
00:23:35,500 –> 00:23:37,700
But haven’t they got a cousin?
You remember?

349
00:23:38,800 –> 00:23:43,000
I’m still on the Wii U, pursue
the questioning, I found that

350
00:23:43,000 –> 00:23:48,300
extremely helpful.
Look at number five.

351
00:23:50,200 –> 00:23:53,100
In that major problem that we
had, this is how we solved it.

352
00:23:54,500 –> 00:23:59,600
Ensure that all members of the
arranging committee make their

353
00:23:59,600 –> 00:24:05,400
views known, not just the ones
who talk make everybody talk.

354
00:24:06,500 –> 00:24:08,600
And the way to do it is to
commence the discussion with a

355
00:24:08,600 –> 00:24:14,200
different person every time. and
then to work around, and

356
00:24:14,208 –> 00:24:18,900
everybody has spoken it was
extremely interesting Brethren,

357
00:24:18,900 –> 00:24:23,700
and the case that I mentioned We
took a snap vote of the

358
00:24:23,700 –> 00:24:26,300
arranging Brethren when we
commenced to discuss it.

359
00:24:26,800 –> 00:24:31,300
And the snap vote was if we were
to take action now who would

360
00:24:31,300 –> 00:24:34,700
this fellowship?
And who would not on the vote

361
00:24:34,700 –> 00:24:42,400
was for for his fellow shipping
and 3 for not, We pursue that

362
00:24:42,400 –> 00:24:45,500
case.
We came to the end of our period

363
00:24:45,500 –> 00:24:47,700
of time.
We took our final decision.

364
00:24:48,900 –> 00:24:51,300
And it was 74,
disfellowshipping.

365
00:24:52,900 –> 00:24:55,800
That was a great process.
It was a marvelous education.

366
00:24:58,000 –> 00:25:03,900
And the best friend of the
person concerned was amongst the

367
00:25:03,900 –> 00:25:07,500
seven.
That took some doing.

368
00:25:08,700 –> 00:25:11,700
But it proved that, It produced
unity and the unity was produced

369
00:25:11,700 –> 00:25:16,000
by going through number five.
Every time we started with those

370
00:25:16,500 –> 00:25:19,800
with somebody different but even
those Brethren who normally

371
00:25:20,200 –> 00:25:23,400
didn’t string, a lot of words
together, once they saw the

372
00:25:23,400 –> 00:25:26,400
process came in and spoke, and
it was good.

373
00:25:28,300 –> 00:25:31,000
Six, you have to keep the
occasion, informed.

374
00:25:31,400 –> 00:25:37,800
Now that can be by the recording
of the arranging Brethren’s,

375
00:25:38,000 –> 00:25:42,500
meetings and putting in the
minutes that which is, it is

376
00:25:42,500 –> 00:25:45,600
essential to put in and having
those red at the quarterly

377
00:25:45,600 –> 00:25:48,100
business meeting.
And so, the occlusion is

378
00:25:48,100 –> 00:25:51,100
informed and what is workin?
Call the arranging Brethren to

379
00:25:51,108 –> 00:25:56,500
task.
If need be It may be necessary

380
00:25:56,500 –> 00:26:02,100
in some cases.
For example, the 30,000 dollar

381
00:26:02,100 –> 00:26:05,000
Wang.
It may have been necessary the

382
00:26:05,000 –> 00:26:06,400
following somebody to say
something.

383
00:26:09,100 –> 00:26:11,300
The piece you may have heard
that there is a pretty

384
00:26:11,300 –> 00:26:14,700
considerable financial problem
in connection with brother and

385
00:26:14,700 –> 00:26:18,400
sister so and so we would like
to assure the Ecclesia that the

386
00:26:18,400 –> 00:26:21,800
ranging Brethren are already
examining this matter.

387
00:26:23,000 –> 00:26:25,500
That helps because it means that
the Ecclesia can pray about it

388
00:26:25,500 –> 00:26:29,500
as well.
But the same time you haven’t

389
00:26:29,500 –> 00:26:32,600
got to breach confidentiality
have you?

390
00:26:34,500 –> 00:26:38,900
That all confidential pieces of
information that come out of

391
00:26:38,900 –> 00:26:42,200
complex cases that we do not
repeat to the occasion.

392
00:26:45,300 –> 00:26:47,700
Now, you may think that
everything should be laid before

393
00:26:47,700 –> 00:26:52,500
the occasion, every single item.
There are certain items rather

394
00:26:52,500 –> 00:26:55,000
and that would want, one should
not lay.

395
00:26:56,300 –> 00:26:59,800
Sometimes the information is so
intimate and painful.

396
00:27:00,800 –> 00:27:06,100
But even to get that information
from the person voluntarily from

397
00:27:06,100 –> 00:27:09,300
the per person is such a
traumatic experience.

398
00:27:10,500 –> 00:27:14,900
Then to make everybody else
aware of it and to talk about it

399
00:27:15,400 –> 00:27:18,500
and to trade it freely would be
a disaster.

400
00:27:18,600 –> 00:27:20,400
So one has to be careful with
the information.

401
00:27:23,200 –> 00:27:31,400
Look at items 7.
Keep in touch with those who are

402
00:27:31,400 –> 00:27:35,100
the cause of the problem.
In other words, don’t treat them

403
00:27:35,100 –> 00:27:40,600
as though they are.
A long way away from us in some

404
00:27:40,600 –> 00:27:45,400
respect or other the treat them
as being Brethren and sisters,

405
00:27:46,000 –> 00:27:47,700
who are still in fellowship with
us.

406
00:27:48,500 –> 00:27:49,900
Although we have a problem with
them.

407
00:27:49,900 –> 00:27:52,300
We are dealing patiently and
sympathetically with them.

408
00:27:54,800 –> 00:27:57,400
I’m not.
That is one that sometimes not

409
00:27:57,400 –> 00:28:01,000
done.
The people need reassurance, and

410
00:28:01,000 –> 00:28:03,500
then finally laying the results
before the occasion.

411
00:28:03,700 –> 00:28:06,100
In our particular case, we laid
it before the occasion in

412
00:28:06,100 –> 00:28:09,600
writing at the end.
So, the occasion was at all, the

413
00:28:09,600 –> 00:28:13,800
Ecclesia able to have in writing
before the actual meeting they

414
00:28:13,800 –> 00:28:17,800
were able to have in writing all
the necessary details of the

415
00:28:17,800 –> 00:28:21,500
case.
And as I say, we had to withdraw

416
00:28:21,500 –> 00:28:25,500
in there.
Now, there’s a very Zone.

417
00:28:26,800 –> 00:28:30,800
A system that can be used.
It’s worthwhile keeping that

418
00:28:30,800 –> 00:28:33,300
near at hand when you’ve got a
problem just to make sure that

419
00:28:33,300 –> 00:28:37,100
there isn’t one of them that
slipping through the net, for

420
00:28:37,100 –> 00:28:40,800
example, item, seven or items
six.

421
00:28:40,800 –> 00:28:43,800
Those are easy things we get.
So involved in dealing with it

422
00:28:43,800 –> 00:28:45,700
that we forget other people are
in darkness.

423
00:28:47,300 –> 00:28:50,300
And we’ve got to prevent the
spread of the problem in some

424
00:28:50,300 –> 00:28:52,300
way or another within our
occasion.

425
00:28:53,100 –> 00:28:56,700
Arranging president will be
accused of not doing anything of

426
00:28:56,700 –> 00:29:00,100
dealing unsympathetically.
And so on, that is standard

427
00:29:00,100 –> 00:29:03,400
reaction from people who are
concerned, we have to have broad

428
00:29:03,400 –> 00:29:07,100
enough backs to carry that.
Today is just saying, you know,

429
00:29:07,100 –> 00:29:09,500
getting angry and say, oh, we’re
doing all we can about this

430
00:29:09,500 –> 00:29:11,400
problem.
Then you stand, criticizing us

431
00:29:11,600 –> 00:29:13,500
what happens Brethren, get
concerned.

432
00:29:13,900 –> 00:29:16,900
And we just have to take what
they lay upon.

433
00:29:17,200 –> 00:29:20,400
Because that is part of looking
after the flock.

434
00:29:21,500 –> 00:29:23,800
And as the Lord himself we’ve
misunderstood.

435
00:29:24,400 –> 00:29:29,100
So, as his servants, we are
socially misunderstood from time

436
00:29:29,100 –> 00:29:35,600
to time.
Next item and this is not so

437
00:29:35,600 –> 00:29:39,200
clear in this country as it
might be in other parts of the

438
00:29:39,200 –> 00:29:43,900
world.
Occasional autonomy and that’s

439
00:29:43,900 –> 00:29:47,600
you notice is mentioned here but
you need to worry about reading

440
00:29:47,600 –> 00:29:52,200
those parts in this booklet,
ecclesial autonomy.

441
00:29:54,500 –> 00:29:57,000
And our relationship with other
occasions.

442
00:29:57,200 –> 00:30:00,600
Now, he’s an autonomy.
Is that every occasion decides

443
00:30:00,600 –> 00:30:04,400
for itself?
That’s what occasional autonomy

444
00:30:04,400 –> 00:30:07,800
means and all of us are glad
that we do that.

445
00:30:08,800 –> 00:30:12,400
At the same time, we have to
remember that we are deciding as

446
00:30:12,400 –> 00:30:17,300
a christadelphians Ecclesia.
So, our neighboring occasions,

447
00:30:17,300 –> 00:30:22,300
expect us to make a decision as
a christadelphians, occasi not

448
00:30:22,300 –> 00:30:25,700
as something that is, you know,
plucked out of the air, which is

449
00:30:25,700 –> 00:30:29,100
totally unscriptural unscrew our
on christadelphians.

450
00:30:29,200 –> 00:30:30,500
And say, well, we’ve got the
solution.

451
00:30:30,500 –> 00:30:33,600
This is it.
What we have to do is to produce

452
00:30:33,700 –> 00:30:37,100
a solution that is compatible
with.

453
00:30:39,100 –> 00:30:42,500
What we are as a community so we
have to keep other people in

454
00:30:42,500 –> 00:30:46,700
mind even though the problem may
only be our problem, it may not

455
00:30:46,700 –> 00:30:50,200
have any ramifications at all.
No repercussions on other

456
00:30:50,200 –> 00:30:53,600
occasions.
Until of course, one member from

457
00:30:53,600 –> 00:30:55,500
our Ecclesia moves to another
occasion.

458
00:30:56,700 –> 00:30:58,900
And then we have to send a
letter of commendation, do we

459
00:30:58,900 –> 00:31:01,500
not?
That’s the standard drill.

460
00:31:01,500 –> 00:31:05,300
It’s the right drill and when we
send a letter of commendation

461
00:31:05,300 –> 00:31:09,100
from our Ecclesia to the other
Ecclesia that letter of

462
00:31:09,100 –> 00:31:11,600
commendation, should mean what
it says.

463
00:31:13,200 –> 00:31:18,500
That we are currently on.
Transferring to you.

464
00:31:20,600 –> 00:31:26,000
Our brother Richard Bradley who
is in good standing with our

465
00:31:26,000 –> 00:31:31,300
occasion and we shall greatly
miss his fellowship and service.

466
00:31:32,100 –> 00:31:38,000
We trust that he will be happy
in his new occasion and that you

467
00:31:38,000 –> 00:31:42,400
will find him.
A similarly, a good brother.

468
00:31:43,500 –> 00:31:48,300
Now that letter is clear to the
occasion that receives it when,

469
00:31:48,300 –> 00:31:53,400
when the brother arrives, When
the letter arrives. then

470
00:31:53,800 –> 00:31:56,000
recording brother could say,
well, glad to meet you Brother,

471
00:31:56,000 –> 00:32:00,300
Richard I’ve heard from your
occasion and I’m sure you’re

472
00:32:00,300 –> 00:32:04,500
going to be happy here.
What we do with all transfers in

473
00:32:04,500 –> 00:32:05,800
our occasion.
Don’t know what you’re doing,

474
00:32:05,800 –> 00:32:08,200
yours.
Every transfer is considered

475
00:32:08,200 –> 00:32:11,200
first by the arranging Brethren
before it is accepted.

476
00:32:12,800 –> 00:32:16,100
We have a look at the letter.
It’s a letter is not clear.

477
00:32:17,200 –> 00:32:20,500
Then we right back.
As we do, by the way in

478
00:32:20,500 –> 00:32:24,600
connection with appeals and it
is one of these one of these

479
00:32:25,100 –> 00:32:28,700
groups thought that perhaps they
might need to appeal either

480
00:32:28,700 –> 00:32:32,100
Countrywide or perhaps
internationally for money.

481
00:32:32,300 –> 00:32:34,600
If the letter we received
doesn’t make sense.

482
00:32:34,600 –> 00:32:38,100
We write back and say we do not
understand your letter.

483
00:32:39,300 –> 00:32:43,100
You’re asking for 45,000 dollars
but you do not say what you’re

484
00:32:43,100 –> 00:32:48,200
only closure is contributing
what you have already done and

485
00:32:48,200 –> 00:32:53,900
so we always make inquiry, we
respond very well to every every

486
00:32:54,500 –> 00:32:58,000
occasion appeal worldwide.
But there’s not one of them that

487
00:32:58,000 –> 00:33:01,200
we don’t examine thoroughly
because we are custodians of the

488
00:33:01,200 –> 00:33:03,400
occasional money so they’ll
money.

489
00:33:05,600 –> 00:33:07,700
Everyone to send 200 dollars
somewhere.

490
00:33:08,100 –> 00:33:10,600
Well, you send it personally.
That’s how you feel about it,

491
00:33:10,600 –> 00:33:12,900
but don’t don’t imagine you
could do that freely with the

492
00:33:12,900 –> 00:33:16,300
occasions money, if the Ecclesia
would not do that.

493
00:33:16,700 –> 00:33:20,800
So we’ve got to be good stewards
of the money that we have.

494
00:33:21,900 –> 00:33:25,400
So in transfers then from one
place to another, that’s how we

495
00:33:25,400 –> 00:33:29,400
should do you sometimes read
behind a letter, you know, we

496
00:33:29,400 –> 00:33:33,300
are commending to you.
Our sister Wilkinson.

497
00:33:34,100 –> 00:33:36,300
And what by the time you reach
the second line in the letter,

498
00:33:36,300 –> 00:33:38,500
you know that they are saying to
you.

499
00:33:38,900 –> 00:33:44,900
We are glad she is leaving us
and we hope that you can cope

500
00:33:44,900 –> 00:33:49,200
with her you know now that that
you can read it.

501
00:33:49,800 –> 00:33:53,800
All right now that should not be
there was some question in the

502
00:33:53,800 –> 00:33:55,600
amongst.
Those those groups about

503
00:33:55,600 –> 00:34:00,600
transfer from one place to
another The responsibility for

504
00:34:00,600 –> 00:34:04,000
the transferee is the home.
Ecclesia.

505
00:34:06,500 –> 00:34:09,600
Because that transfer is still
there member until you accept

506
00:34:10,300 –> 00:34:12,800
and consequently.
They should deal with whatever

507
00:34:12,800 –> 00:34:17,199
lies behind any problem.
Only, it should not be that they

508
00:34:17,199 –> 00:34:19,800
transfer the whole problem out
to you a marriage problems.

509
00:34:19,800 –> 00:34:21,199
At one of these was a marriage
problem.

510
00:34:21,600 –> 00:34:25,300
The problem is, there’s if her
husband has left her that

511
00:34:25,300 –> 00:34:28,100
something that that occlusion
should know all about and be

512
00:34:28,100 –> 00:34:30,500
able to set out the
circumstances, not something

513
00:34:30,500 –> 00:34:33,199
that the receiving occasion
should be examining from

514
00:34:33,199 –> 00:34:36,300
scratch.
For me, the other Ecclesia that

515
00:34:36,300 –> 00:34:40,500
should be doing that.
So in problems that affect other

516
00:34:40,500 –> 00:34:43,400
occasions are occasional
autonomy.

517
00:34:43,600 –> 00:34:47,699
Now meets with the occasional
autonomy of the other Ecclesia

518
00:34:47,699 –> 00:34:51,400
that is suppose.
For example, that Ecclesia, a a

519
00:34:51,600 –> 00:34:57,200
has withdrawn from a brother And
in a few months time, the

520
00:34:57,200 –> 00:35:01,900
brother goes to Ecclesia.
Be And he says, to one of the

521
00:35:01,908 –> 00:35:04,500
Brethren there who happens to be
one of the arranging Brethren.

522
00:35:04,700 –> 00:35:08,000
Could I have a talk with you?
The brother says, well

523
00:35:08,000 –> 00:35:11,300
certainly.
Let’s meet for lunch or would

524
00:35:11,300 –> 00:35:13,100
you rather come down to our
house for dinner?

525
00:35:14,100 –> 00:35:16,000
So he goes around and he spreads
out his problem.

526
00:35:17,600 –> 00:35:20,500
And they arranged your brother
having heard it says, well that

527
00:35:20,500 –> 00:35:23,500
sounds fair enough to me.
I’m quite sure that you can be

528
00:35:23,508 –> 00:35:28,000
received in our occasion.
Until he talks the other

529
00:35:28,000 –> 00:35:29,500
arranging Brethren the other
arranging Brethren.

530
00:35:29,500 –> 00:35:33,600
Say yes will receive them.
Now in actual fact, we’ve met

531
00:35:33,600 –> 00:35:39,800
we’ve dropped a stitch there.
A major Stitch We have no right

532
00:35:39,800 –> 00:35:44,700
to receive in our occasion.
Somebody who is out of

533
00:35:44,700 –> 00:35:49,000
fellowship with another occasion
until such time.

534
00:35:49,200 –> 00:35:51,800
As we have been in contact with
that other occasion.

535
00:35:51,900 –> 00:35:58,300
We are all one occasion.
The brother has been withdrawn

536
00:35:58,300 –> 00:36:02,900
from 18, a have been withdrawn
from by an error of judgment,

537
00:36:03,000 –> 00:36:07,200
which is easy to arrive to arise
from time to time or it may be

538
00:36:07,200 –> 00:36:09,900
that his circumstances since
then have changed.

539
00:36:11,000 –> 00:36:15,600
But be that as it may, the right
thing to do is for this occasion

540
00:36:15,600 –> 00:36:20,400
now to write to his parent
occasion, and say that we have

541
00:36:20,600 –> 00:36:24,300
brother be, who was it who come
to our meeting and is seeking

542
00:36:24,300 –> 00:36:26,700
fellowship with us.
So far as we are able to

543
00:36:26,700 –> 00:36:30,100
ascertain this brother and then
describe what we think about

544
00:36:30,100 –> 00:36:33,500
him.
However he has told us that he

545
00:36:33,600 –> 00:36:37,700
used to belong to your Ecclesia
and that you had occasion to

546
00:36:37,700 –> 00:36:40,900
withdraw from him.
Would you be so kind as to tell

547
00:36:40,900 –> 00:36:45,400
us what the circumstances were
and whether you would have any

548
00:36:45,400 –> 00:36:47,700
objection?
Were we to re-examine this

549
00:36:47,700 –> 00:36:51,400
matter in the light of present
circumstances to our receiving

550
00:36:51,400 –> 00:36:54,000
him in our meeting.
So now both our teachers are

551
00:36:54,000 –> 00:36:59,400
aware The first occasion writes
back and says you better be

552
00:36:59,400 –> 00:37:04,000
extremely careful. this is the
false equation to which he’s

553
00:37:04,000 –> 00:37:08,200
been and has caused trouble in a
hole for occasion.

554
00:37:08,500 –> 00:37:12,200
And the circumstances as they
were reported to you are not the

555
00:37:12,200 –> 00:37:17,400
whole of the case.
Now what we begin to learn then

556
00:37:17,400 –> 00:37:20,900
is that the other occasion, had
a great deal more knowledge

557
00:37:20,900 –> 00:37:24,200
about it than we have in
Britain, that would be easy

558
00:37:24,200 –> 00:37:28,400
because then the arranging
Brethren or two from each of the

559
00:37:28,400 –> 00:37:31,600
occasions will be able to meet
together here.

560
00:37:31,600 –> 00:37:34,200
You might have to do it by a
conference call because of

561
00:37:34,200 –> 00:37:36,200
distances.
But the right thing to do is to

562
00:37:36,200 –> 00:37:39,500
make absolutely certain that you
don’t get out of step with the

563
00:37:39,500 –> 00:37:42,400
first occasion, you may arrive
at a different decision from

564
00:37:42,400 –> 00:37:47,200
them in the end.
The official guide likes makes

565
00:37:47,600 –> 00:37:51,900
provision for this.
You may arrive at a different

566
00:37:51,900 –> 00:37:55,100
decision.
It may be in the light of some

567
00:37:55,100 –> 00:37:59,900
new facts or it may have been
that you feel that you could

568
00:37:59,900 –> 00:38:05,400
cope with this problem and that
it is within that which are

569
00:38:05,400 –> 00:38:07,100
christadelphians occasion should
do.

570
00:38:07,100 –> 00:38:09,400
That doesn’t mean that you are
judging the other Ecclesia.

571
00:38:09,400 –> 00:38:13,000
They took a decision, their
brethren in all that, they knew

572
00:38:13,100 –> 00:38:16,500
at that time in the light of the
person when he was there,

573
00:38:16,500 –> 00:38:19,100
amongst them when he was that
old.

574
00:38:19,800 –> 00:38:23,000
I went those events were recent
and therefore they took the

575
00:38:23,008 –> 00:38:25,900
decision that they believe to be
right, and that’s all they can

576
00:38:25,900 –> 00:38:28,200
do.
You can’t take an infallible

577
00:38:28,200 –> 00:38:32,300
decision They may make a mistake
on.

578
00:38:32,300 –> 00:38:36,500
Therefore there is a certain
wisdom that there are other

579
00:38:36,500 –> 00:38:39,900
occasions to which a person in
due course, may make some are

580
00:38:39,900 –> 00:38:42,700
peeled.
There is a, there is a certain

581
00:38:42,700 –> 00:38:46,000
wisdom in that, but the great
thing is to make sure that we

582
00:38:46,000 –> 00:38:49,400
keep in contact.
And that, when we come to our

583
00:38:49,400 –> 00:38:52,600
final decision that, we’re not
grossly offending the other

584
00:38:52,600 –> 00:38:56,200
occasion.
Now, in some matters.

585
00:38:57,400 –> 00:38:59,000
And let me just take two of
them.

586
00:39:00,400 –> 00:39:06,300
One is divorce.
And remarriage.

587
00:39:08,300 –> 00:39:11,100
And the other is what the
present kind of discussion.

588
00:39:11,100 –> 00:39:13,400
That’s been going on concerning
reunions.

589
00:39:13,400 –> 00:39:17,000
Now I’m not going to open out
the reunions subject as a

590
00:39:17,008 –> 00:39:21,700
subject is just the method by
which one might look at things,

591
00:39:21,700 –> 00:39:27,900
first of a marriage and divorce.
That is not unanimity of view.

592
00:39:29,100 –> 00:39:33,900
On this subject, there was
unanimity of you on this subject

593
00:39:33,900 –> 00:39:37,800
at one time.
But that’s a long while ago.

594
00:39:39,500 –> 00:39:44,000
And the unanimity of you in
those days was for example, that

595
00:39:44,300 –> 00:39:50,100
the accepted Clause did operate,
that was the view of brother

596
00:39:50,100 –> 00:39:55,000
Thomas brother Roberts.
Brother Walker, brother, Carter,

597
00:39:55,000 –> 00:39:59,900
brother nickel.
That was their understanding.

598
00:40:01,300 –> 00:40:04,100
All right.
I’m not entering into whether

599
00:40:04,100 –> 00:40:08,200
they were right or wrong.
What we now know is that there

600
00:40:08,200 –> 00:40:12,500
are at least four ways of
dealing with divorced people.

601
00:40:14,700 –> 00:40:18,900
And so there are those for
example, who say we will have no

602
00:40:19,000 –> 00:40:22,700
divorcee of any kind in our
meeting.

603
00:40:24,300 –> 00:40:27,600
That’s The Simple Solution.
It’s not a perfect solution.

604
00:40:27,600 –> 00:40:30,500
It is a simple solution and we
draw a line.

605
00:40:31,000 –> 00:40:34,400
Everybody has a problem when it
comes to what do we do about the

606
00:40:34,400 –> 00:40:37,100
stranger?
Who comes along, who and is

607
00:40:37,200 –> 00:40:40,900
divorce?
Is he on this side or that side

608
00:40:40,900 –> 00:40:43,800
of the line that we have drawn?
However, let’s just take it.

609
00:40:43,800 –> 00:40:47,100
That’s one instance, isn’t it?
We will have no divorcee in our

610
00:40:47,100 –> 00:40:51,000
meeting.
At The Other Extreme, there are

611
00:40:51,000 –> 00:40:57,700
those who say we will have any
divorcee in our meeting provided

612
00:40:57,700 –> 00:41:02,800
that we are totally satisfied
that that person has repented of

613
00:41:02,800 –> 00:41:07,500
what they have done.
So that’s the Other Extreme.

614
00:41:09,100 –> 00:41:14,000
Then we have line between those
those who say we will accept the

615
00:41:14,000 –> 00:41:18,100
acceptive clause.
And make provision.

616
00:41:19,300 –> 00:41:23,600
For any who though not being
advised to remarry do.

617
00:41:23,600 –> 00:41:27,500
So in our Ecclesia, let’s just
take those three as of you.

618
00:41:27,500 –> 00:41:29,600
So I could multiply them
considerably.

619
00:41:29,700 –> 00:41:33,700
I know of two, fellowships for
example, one Fellowship says, we

620
00:41:33,700 –> 00:41:36,900
will accept no divorce people in
our fellowship, this is outside.

621
00:41:36,900 –> 00:41:42,900
Our fellowship.
They try very hard to maintain

622
00:41:42,900 –> 00:41:47,100
that.
I don’t believe that their

623
00:41:47,100 –> 00:41:50,200
record is totally clean.
I don’t think anybody’s record

624
00:41:50,200 –> 00:41:53,800
is totally clear on this matter
because it’s dealing with human

625
00:41:53,800 –> 00:41:56,100
beings against the scriptural
background.

626
00:41:56,100 –> 00:41:58,700
That’s a problem.
I know of another fellowship.

627
00:41:58,700 –> 00:42:02,500
Not our fellowship that says,
everybody who joins our

628
00:42:02,500 –> 00:42:06,000
fellowship must accept the
except clause.

629
00:42:07,000 –> 00:42:10,200
So they’ve solved that problem.
Similarly, by just drawing a

630
00:42:10,207 –> 00:42:12,200
line and saying that’s not the
line is, that’s what we’re going

631
00:42:12,200 –> 00:42:13,800
to follow.
No arguments.

632
00:42:13,800 –> 00:42:16,100
If you don’t want to have this,
come to another fellowship.

633
00:42:16,200 –> 00:42:19,200
And so that’s each of those to
do in our fellowship.

634
00:42:19,700 –> 00:42:25,700
What we have done is to allow
the examination of cases,

635
00:42:26,200 –> 00:42:29,200
against the scriptural
background, which sometimes

636
00:42:29,200 –> 00:42:31,700
produce different answers.
Now, I know there are people who

637
00:42:31,700 –> 00:42:33,700
would like, to have the whole
thing cut and dried.

638
00:42:33,900 –> 00:42:35,400
There’s no part of our
community.

639
00:42:35,400 –> 00:42:39,000
That’s got it, cut and dry.
No part of our community that

640
00:42:39,000 –> 00:42:42,600
has a cut and dry.
And I know that from personal

641
00:42:42,600 –> 00:42:46,000
experience.
Every path has its problems

642
00:42:46,000 –> 00:42:48,300
because it’s a very complex
subject.

643
00:42:49,000 –> 00:42:53,700
What is open to us?
Then in Ecclesia a if a clean G

644
00:42:53,700 –> 00:42:58,800
of B does something that we
would not do had the case been

645
00:42:58,800 –> 00:43:01,800
our case.
What do we do?

646
00:43:04,200 –> 00:43:10,000
Well, these are options that
appear to be open one is we will

647
00:43:10,000 –> 00:43:13,400
not accept anybody from that,
Ecclesia to break bread with us.

648
00:43:15,700 –> 00:43:18,100
That is not an option within our
fellowship.

649
00:43:20,000 –> 00:43:21,900
That is what the dogs
Fellowship.

650
00:43:21,900 –> 00:43:26,300
Do not our option. that is not
what the central federal,

651
00:43:26,300 –> 00:43:30,700
however, strongly, we feel, And
I haven’t actually said how they

652
00:43:30,700 –> 00:43:33,300
dealt with the case or how we
would have dealt with it.

653
00:43:34,700 –> 00:43:39,300
They’ve dealt with it very
harshly or they may have dealt

654
00:43:39,300 –> 00:43:42,600
with it sympathetically, which
everybody was, we have no option

655
00:43:43,100 –> 00:43:45,300
now to say provided that they
have behaviors of

656
00:43:45,300 –> 00:43:47,700
christadelphians.
Ecclesia, we have no option to

657
00:43:47,700 –> 00:43:51,000
say concerning them, none of
your people will be acceptable

658
00:43:51,000 –> 00:43:54,100
with us.
We have an option.

659
00:43:56,200 –> 00:44:04,000
It’s not a highly logical option
but it satisfies the minds of

660
00:44:04,000 –> 00:44:07,300
some brother and sisters and
that is to say that that

661
00:44:07,300 –> 00:44:11,900
divorced people that you have
accepted, we will not accept in

662
00:44:11,900 –> 00:44:13,800
our occasi at the breaking of
bread.

663
00:44:14,900 –> 00:44:16,400
And that is an option that is
open.

664
00:44:18,000 –> 00:44:21,600
The matter of fact, what I would
say to divorce people who are

665
00:44:21,600 –> 00:44:26,000
accepted that you do not, go
trafficking yourself around and

666
00:44:26,000 –> 00:44:28,700
asking this Ecclesia and that it
gives you to accept you.

667
00:44:29,100 –> 00:44:33,500
If your occasion has accepted,
you be satisfied, when don’t go

668
00:44:33,500 –> 00:44:36,000
and face the problem and
everybody else’s doorstep

669
00:44:36,000 –> 00:44:38,100
because I don’t think it is
right to do that.

670
00:44:40,900 –> 00:44:46,600
Similarly, our problem.
Is something that does affect

671
00:44:46,600 –> 00:44:50,200
our neighbors.
And it affects our own Ecclesia.

672
00:44:51,500 –> 00:44:53,700
And in the subject of divorce,
they have to see what happens to

673
00:44:53,700 –> 00:44:56,000
our own occlusion.
Not just what happens to the

674
00:44:56,000 –> 00:44:58,400
people concerned.
What happens to our own

675
00:44:58,400 –> 00:45:02,800
occasion, the nature of our
Ecclesia, as well, as the case

676
00:45:02,800 –> 00:45:04,600
itself.
So they need to be looked at

677
00:45:04,600 –> 00:45:11,400
with extreme care, but as you
can see, The hard line of I’ve

678
00:45:11,400 –> 00:45:14,200
cut off the whole of that
Ecclesia is not an option that

679
00:45:14,200 –> 00:45:17,700
is open to every exercise.
It, we are not doing what the

680
00:45:17,700 –> 00:45:22,100
central Fellowship done. when
you move away from that, then

681
00:45:22,100 –> 00:45:26,900
just as an illustration to the
question of the cfu, And how

682
00:45:26,900 –> 00:45:30,800
should we as arranging Brethren
have dealt with that issue.

683
00:45:31,500 –> 00:45:34,400
Now it just so happens that I’m
not in this country and so,

684
00:45:35,400 –> 00:45:39,400
although really I do belong
here, I must say I’ve been here

685
00:45:39,400 –> 00:45:44,500
so often I’m I really feel that
it’s like being at home.

686
00:45:44,500 –> 00:45:49,000
So you understand how I’ve
agonized with you over what you

687
00:45:49,000 –> 00:45:52,200
have been seeking to do, what
should arranging Brethren have

688
00:45:52,200 –> 00:45:55,900
sought to do?
In these circumstances.

689
00:45:59,600 –> 00:46:04,100
That are not open to us as
individuals one.

690
00:46:06,500 –> 00:46:11,600
The responsibility for my
Ecclesia rests with Christ.

691
00:46:13,300 –> 00:46:16,000
And on Earth was the arranging
brethren.

692
00:46:17,700 –> 00:46:21,400
It does not rest, just with
individual brethren.

693
00:46:23,300 –> 00:46:27,900
I believe therefore that in the
matter of the cfu, that all

694
00:46:27,900 –> 00:46:31,900
letters that were received
should have been considered by

695
00:46:31,900 –> 00:46:36,400
the arranging brethren But they
should have analyzed them

696
00:46:36,900 –> 00:46:41,600
against the background of we are
a Christian Delphine Ecclesia

697
00:46:42,300 –> 00:46:44,800
and this is our statement of
faith.

698
00:46:46,200 –> 00:46:50,300
And do these things, add up to
that statement of faith.

699
00:46:51,500 –> 00:46:53,300
And we should have made clear,
what?

700
00:46:53,300 –> 00:46:57,000
We as arranging Brethren felt so
the occasion.

701
00:46:58,500 –> 00:47:03,200
Now I feel that that is the
least that we can do, because it

702
00:47:03,200 –> 00:47:06,900
so happens that from cfu, we’ve
had letters sent to individual

703
00:47:06,900 –> 00:47:09,800
people.
Now there is no scriptural

704
00:47:09,800 –> 00:47:13,200
warrant for writing to
individual people, but there is

705
00:47:13,200 –> 00:47:15,400
no way in which we can complain
about that in this country

706
00:47:15,400 –> 00:47:19,200
because everybody does it.
The standard drill anybody who

707
00:47:19,200 –> 00:47:21,300
feels strongly rights to
everybody else.

708
00:47:23,400 –> 00:47:30,000
And so if we live in a Maverick
Country, then there’s no way in

709
00:47:30,000 –> 00:47:32,700
which we can complain about
people, is this stems from the

710
00:47:32,707 –> 00:47:34,600
Americans, right to have his own
gun.

711
00:47:35,300 –> 00:47:38,500
And I think that, every, every
American brother has his own gun

712
00:47:38,500 –> 00:47:41,600
in his own way because he feels
that he’s going to write just to

713
00:47:41,600 –> 00:47:44,800
say his own thing to everybody
when write to them about it.

714
00:47:44,900 –> 00:47:47,800
Well, that’s the nature of
occasion life here, I respect

715
00:47:47,800 –> 00:47:50,500
it.
I just caricatured it slightly

716
00:47:50,500 –> 00:47:53,300
them, but I respected and I love
the brother or sisters here. you

717
00:47:53,300 –> 00:47:58,400
know, but the responsibility for
the individual members of our

718
00:47:58,400 –> 00:48:05,500
Ecclesia rest with our arranging
brethren There are uninformed

719
00:48:05,500 –> 00:48:09,300
Brethren who have been getting
these letters, they don’t know

720
00:48:09,300 –> 00:48:12,800
where they are.
There’s no way in which they can

721
00:48:12,800 –> 00:48:16,200
know where they are, not only
those that is, but any letter

722
00:48:16,200 –> 00:48:20,000
there is no way.
The same way that you had a

723
00:48:20,008 –> 00:48:24,500
letter from the CMP a because we
were asked to say something.

724
00:48:25,000 –> 00:48:30,100
Now that letter was sent only
two occasions wasn’t sent to

725
00:48:30,100 –> 00:48:32,800
individual Brethren.
If the case you cares to put it

726
00:48:32,800 –> 00:48:35,100
to individual brother, and
that’s their concern, but the

727
00:48:35,100 –> 00:48:37,900
responsibility lies with a
ranging Brethren and the

728
00:48:37,900 –> 00:48:41,500
responsibility for the problem
lies here in North America, for

729
00:48:41,500 –> 00:48:45,800
its solution, not outside. but I
feel that, that as arranging

730
00:48:45,800 –> 00:48:50,500
brethren, we should have carried
our responsibility, It was too

731
00:48:50,500 –> 00:48:52,800
big for us.
Then in some way, we should have

732
00:48:52,800 –> 00:48:56,100
sought to cope with it by a
mechanism that would have been

733
00:48:56,100 –> 00:48:58,700
acceptable.
It would have been possible.

734
00:48:58,700 –> 00:49:04,900
For example, to have Written to
the old reunions committee and

735
00:49:04,900 –> 00:49:08,100
said, would you please advise on
this matter for us?

736
00:49:09,500 –> 00:49:11,800
These are options, other words,
you go through it, like you did

737
00:49:11,800 –> 00:49:13,000
this this matter.
Here.

738
00:49:13,600 –> 00:49:17,100
It was a perfect case of being
able to sit down and write.

739
00:49:18,400 –> 00:49:22,600
I did is that it won’t marry
eventuate?

740
00:49:22,600 –> 00:49:26,600
Is that It’s going to be
difficult to.

741
00:49:28,000 –> 00:49:32,700
Cope with the feelings that are
emerged either Pro or Kong this

742
00:49:32,700 –> 00:49:35,700
matter.
To remember in this matter, we

743
00:49:35,700 –> 00:49:38,900
are Krista, Delphine Ecclesia,
meet, on a Birmingham, amended

744
00:49:38,900 –> 00:49:42,700
statement of play and it’s only
on that basis that we can take

745
00:49:42,700 –> 00:49:44,500
our decisions.
We have no other basis on which

746
00:49:44,500 –> 00:49:48,700
to take a decision that’s how we
have met.

747
00:49:48,800 –> 00:49:52,400
You want to amend that.
Then we move out of being a

748
00:49:52,400 –> 00:49:56,900
Christian, do Clinic lesion or
another fellowship of Christian

749
00:49:56,900 –> 00:50:00,600
delphine’s.
We might produce I’ve got one or

750
00:50:00,600 –> 00:50:05,900
two points in the questions on
those issues and brother Paul, I

751
00:50:05,900 –> 00:50:09,000
better stop there.
I think we should, I can go on,

752
00:50:09,900 –> 00:50:12,300
was that helpful?
By the way where those those

753
00:50:12,300 –> 00:50:14,200
comments helpful?
They were direct and they were

754
00:50:14,200 –> 00:50:16,500
meant to be helpful and they
were not judgmental.

755
00:50:16,500 –> 00:50:19,800
In the sense of, I’m aware of
what you have done, or you have

756
00:50:19,800 –> 00:50:21,300
done.
And I disagree with it, not that

757
00:50:21,300 –> 00:50:23,100
at all.
I had a look at it to see.

758
00:50:23,100 –> 00:50:26,300
What would we do in our Ecclesia
in Watford?

759
00:50:26,400 –> 00:50:31,100
If we have these problems and
That’s how we I’m sure it would

760
00:50:31,100 –> 00:50:33,400
have tackled it, we wouldn’t
have been hastened by any money,

761
00:50:34,100 –> 00:50:36,200
but we will Ascend to our own
members.

762
00:50:36,300 –> 00:50:41,500
Look, This matter needs to be
examined, we will seek to

763
00:50:41,500 –> 00:50:44,700
examine it on your behalf.
We will advise you of our

764
00:50:44,700 –> 00:50:48,600
findings that words you keep the
Ecclesia intact.

765
00:50:49,600 –> 00:50:52,300
And so it’s not ranging
elsewhere to try to find some

766
00:50:52,300 –> 00:50:56,600
Anchor Point and that’s
extremely helpful because that’s

767
00:50:56,600 –> 00:50:58,500
our responsibility, they are
sheep.

768
00:50:58,700 –> 00:51:02,100
And if they’re going to be
scattered then, woe betide us

769
00:51:02,100 –> 00:51:05,900
because there are flock at the
moment and they gather together

770
00:51:06,100 –> 00:51:10,000
in the Lord Jesus Christ.
And We don’t wish to see any of

771
00:51:10,000 –> 00:51:13,600
our sheep scattered and that we
try as hard as we can, to hold

772
00:51:13,600 –> 00:51:17,400
them together.
We’re at the end of the fourth,

773
00:51:17,400 –> 00:51:21,000
talk brethren.
You may have absorbed one of

774
00:51:21,000 –> 00:51:25,200
them or part of them, nobody
will absorb all of them.

775
00:51:25,800 –> 00:51:28,500
Perhaps, the tapes will be
helpful, but I think the

776
00:51:28,500 –> 00:51:32,200
intention of the meeting has
come through that which we’ve

777
00:51:32,200 –> 00:51:36,200
all been seeking to do together
and the exercise that was

778
00:51:36,200 –> 00:51:39,400
performed together.
I think, would pre-eminently be

779
00:51:39,400 –> 00:51:43,700
something of help because it
made us as individuals apply

780
00:51:43,700 –> 00:51:47,900
ourselves to a problem in the
Lord Jesus Christ, which do

781
00:51:47,900 –> 00:51:52,200
imaginary Exercised Us in all
the principles of the truth.

782
00:51:53,300 –> 00:51:57,300
I met alone, God bless us in.
All that we are seeking to do.

783
00:51:58,700 –> 00:52:03,400
and our thanks for those in
Bucks County, who Arrange this

784
00:52:03,400 –> 00:52:06,500
meeting.
With quite an inspiration to do

785
00:52:06,500 –> 00:52:07,400
that.
I think.

786
00:52:08,100 –> 00:52:11,800
And I’m sure that all of us have
traveled here will feel that

787
00:52:11,800 –> 00:52:16,900
it’s been worthwhile.
And may God grant us safety as

788
00:52:16,900 –> 00:52:18,700
we each travel to our respective
home.

789
00:52:26,900 –> 00:52:29,600
Thank you for listening to the
good Christophe intox podcast.

790
00:52:30,000 –> 00:52:32,500
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791
00:52:32,500 –> 00:52:35,500
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793
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00:52:41,300 –> 00:52:43,700
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795
00:52:43,800 –> 00:52:47,000
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803
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