377: Ken Sommerville – The Three Principles

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Welcome to Good Christophian
Talks.

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Thank you for joining us this
week on this podcast.

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We select one talk a week to
help us get the Bible in our

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Daily News feed.
Each week we post a talk that we

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previewed from suggestions sent
in by listeners from around the

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world.
Then we record a short intro

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beforehand as a personalized
recommendation to you on why we

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are sharing the talk.
And now let’s talk.

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More about this week’s talk.
This week’s talk is technically

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an exhortation given by brother
Ken Somerville at the Simi Hills

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Ecclesia on September 30th,
2001.

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I chose not to list it as an
exhortation in the title because

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I don’t think it’s actually
super suitable for a memorial

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service.
And we do have some ecclesias

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that use the the podcast as
their exhortation, but I don’t

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think it takes away from it
being a really excellent and

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interesting talk.
The title is the three

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principles and he gets into the
challenge.

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We have kind of the contrasting
principles of when to say

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something or do something, when
you see a brother in error maybe

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sending or making mistakes and
when not to.

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And he establishes that those
are both biblical principles.

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And you’ll hear that the third
principle is the is, you know,

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knowing the difference.
Brother Ken was my grandfather

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and one of my very best friends.
He passed away a year and a half

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ago, in July of 2024.
I’ve been trying for years to

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find a talk of his that’s
suitable enough to get on the

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show.
He was a wise and wonderful

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loving brother and grandfather
to me and loved by many at Simi

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Hills and here in Southern
California.

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He actually was Bob Lloyd’s
partner in work for almost 50

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years.
They were greater than 50 years,

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almost 60 years.
They they were good friends and

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work partners.
And Ken, like I said, was loved

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by very many, especially his
family.

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But not the greatest disorder,
not the greatest speaker.

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You’ll hear in this talk a
really focused presentation,

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which was the rarity.
I think he would, he was not

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afraid of going on tangents or
rants or things like that in his

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talks, in his, in his exhorts
that this talk is really tighter

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than usual.
And, and I think it’s because

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there must be something going
on.

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He he again, he addresses it in
the beginning that the ABS asked

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him to talk about this topic
specifically.

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And so there’s some greater
story which I don’t know.

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I was 14 at the time that this
talk was presented, but really

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enjoyed it.
Obviously I am personally

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biased.
I asked some of the other Co

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hosts to listen to the talk and
we do all suggest it and I am

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excited to share it with you.
So here is the Three Principles

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by Brother Ken Somerville.
Three or four months ago, a

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problem was put forth at an
arranging board meeting, and

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after much discussion, I was
asked to organize the scriptural

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principles that guide our
actions in those kinds of

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problems and present them on my
next turn to exhort.

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And so that’s the thrust and the
the reason for this morning’s

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exitation and subject.
The general question that we

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were discussing that evening was
what should a brother or sister

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do when they become aware that a
brother, another brother or

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sister is living in an unchrist
like way?

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That’s the, the shall we say the
general thrust of the question.

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And it led to all kinds of
specific questions that will

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serve as examples of things that
no doubt you have faced and that

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we will face in the future.
What if I can see that drugs and

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alcohol are ruining a brother’s
life?

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At what point should I seek the
help of the ecclesia?

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When should the matter be
brought up as possibly needing

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formal response?
A quote you might hear from

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someone is that I can hardly sit
through that brother’s

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exhortation when I know what’s
going on in his private life.

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What if I know this person is
taking advantage 1 by 1 of

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various members in the ecclesia
because no one has the the

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overall picture.
I’m the only one that is aware

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of all the facts.
What if the problem involves

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wife beating and other abusive
behavior that can destroy

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people’s mental health and their
very lives?

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You can see by the nature of the
subject, why I wouldn’t exhort

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on it unless it was something
that we were asked to do that we

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agreed merited our attention.
There are three scriptural

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areas, principles that give us
God’s guidance in this area, and

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we’ll look at them and some of
the verses from which they

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arise.
Then we’ll consider some

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examples of how they might be
implemented.

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The three principles are #1 we
definitely have mutual

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responsibilities for each
other’s spiritual welfare.

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Even as we would readily agree
that we have a common sense duty

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to warn someone to get off the
railroad track because it’s

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dangerous, we have a common
sense duty as well as a

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scripturally set forth duty to
warn someone if their spiritual

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life is in danger.
The second principle is we have

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a duty to mind our own business
and we’ll look at some

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scriptures from whence that
comes.

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And the third principle is that
there are right and wrong ways

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to go about discharging the
duty.

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So we’ve got a duty to our
brother to warn him.

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We’ve got a duty to mind our own
business and we have a duty to

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carry out the duty correctly.
Now, First off, our

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responsibility to our brother,
that principle.

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And we all think of Cain’s
question when God said, where’s

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your brother?
And, and, and how does he

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answer?
Am I my brother’s keeper?

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And that comes down to us with a
commonly understood meaning that

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the answer is yes, you are.
If you stop and think about it,

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all of us that have ever heard
Cain’s response would interpret

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it that way.
That what what the unsaid answer

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is yes, we are our brother’s
keeper.

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The New Testament is full of
instruction and exhortation for

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us to be up and doing in these
areas.

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But implementing these
principles often starts, if not

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always, at the very
uncomfortable individual

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one-on-one level, and they end
up making a little quiet demand

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on you as an individual to act
upon something that you’re

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concerned about because you fear
your brother or sister’s

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spiritual health is in serious
danger.

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In Galatians 2 and 11, we have
an example of Paul discharging

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his duty to an individual.
Now he’s referring back to that

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incident that’s recorded in Acts
where Peter, who had been eating

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with Gentile converts to
Christianity, stop doing so when

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some important Jewish Christians
came from Jerusalem.

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And Paul said and he says in in
Galatians 2 and 11:00.

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But when Peter was come to
Antioch, I withstood him to the

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face because he was to be blamed
for before certain men came from

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James.
He did eat with the Gentiles,

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but when they were come, he
withdrew and separated himself,

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fearing them who were of the
circumcision, and other Jews

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dissembled in like manner with
him.

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And so much the Barnabas also
was carried away with their

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hypocrisy.
It says a mouthful there because

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as we know, Paul’s going to
spend a lot of time in his

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letters fighting against the
Judaizers who were attempting to

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get the law back into to
Christianity, into the gospel of

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Christ.
And he knew that how fatal that

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would be to the whole idea of
salvation by grace, that you’d

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end up with a ritualistic
righteousness form of

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Christianity.
So he saw Peter leading a

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movement that was doctrinally
wrong and that was manifesting

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itself in wrong actions and was
endangering others as well.

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In this case, others dissembled
with him, including Barnabas was

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led away into this hypocritical
practice.

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But there’s a clear example of
the principle of mutual

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responsibility, and without
looking at it, we know in First

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Corinthians 5 that old chapter
is giving given over to the fact

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that in Corinth they had a
brother who had taken his

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father’s wife.
And this was actually leading.

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Not only was that a morally
wrong thing to do, a sinful

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thing to do, but it was causing
a split in the ecclesia.

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But somebody had to raise the
issue.

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Somebody had to bell the cat, as
they say.

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And we know that somebody or
somebody’s wrote Paul, and

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that’s how come he wrote the
Corinthians about the matter.

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Somebody was very concerned
about the spiritual salvation of

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the individual and the effect of
his actions on the ecclesia as a

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whole.
We’ll go back with me now to

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Leviticus 19.
The rituals of the law don’t

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apply, but the principles do.
Leviticus 19 verse 17 and it

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puts it in a very interesting
dramatic way. 17th verse Thou

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shalt not hate thy brother in
thine heart.

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Thou shalt surely rebuke thy
neighbor and not allow sin upon

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him.
So when we keep our mouths shut,

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when we see our brother or hear
our brother doing or saying

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something that’s endangering his
salvation, we’re not being

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gracious, we’re not being
sophisticated, we’re we’re not

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being urbane, we’re manifesting
a hatred, is the way Leviticus

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puts it.
Why?

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But because obviously we don’t
care very much about him.

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We think that we, well, we all
know what’s really going on

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because we’re all guilty of this
at some level or another.

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We’re more concerned about our
face, our egos, our reputation,

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our being liked than we are
about the issue.

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And we all make these
compromises at all kinds of

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levels.
But what we’re talking about

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here are serious, serious
matters.

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Don’t hate your brother in your
heart, but rebuke him.

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Well, now let’s look at the
matter of the very real

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principle that we’re supposed to
mind our own business.

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Because if you’re ever the
recipient of rebuke, the first

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thing you’re going to wish is
that somebody minded their own

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business.
And so you’re likely to be

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thinking about some of these
nurses.

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And they’re, they’re, they’re
completely valid. 1st

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Thessalonians 4 and 11 Paul
admonishing the Thessalonians

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there that you study to be
quiet. 1st Thessalonians 411 to

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do your own business, to do your
own business, to work with your

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hands as we commanded you.
And in First Timothy 5 and 13.

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Similarly, in condemning the
actions of, in that case, young

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widows, I believe First Timothy
5 and 13, he says, well, coming

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in at verse 11, the younger
widows refuse.

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For when they have begun to grow
wanton against Christ, they’ll

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marry, having condemnation
because they’ve cast off their

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first faith.
And besides, they learn to be

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idle, wandering about from house
to house, not only idle, but

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tattlers also in busy bodies
speaking things which they ought

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not.
So being a busy body, not

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minding one’s own business is
condemned.

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In fact, in First Peter 4 and
15.

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Don’t bother going to it it it
says.

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But let none of you suffer as a
murderer, a thief, an evildoer

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or a busy body in other men’s
matters.

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That’s quite a quite a a group
to be in the company of, isn’t

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it?
Murderers, thiefs and evildoers

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are joined now by nosy people.
How do we get nosy?

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Well, sometimes we ask questions
that we have no sincere interest

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in and no real ability to do
anything about.

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We may ask about someone’s
health or why someone isn’t

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here.
We don’t really intend to be

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helpful in the matter, and our
interest may be sincere, but it

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may be casual and it may even be
less so.

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One of the absolute classics in
my view was Jesus’s reaction in

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John 21 to Peter coming in at
the 20th verse and referring to

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John in, in, in, in 21 and 20,
and then Peter turning about.

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And this is just at the last few
moments they had with Jesus.

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See if the disciple whom Jesus
loved, that’s John following,

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who also leaned on his breasted
supper and said, Lord, who is he

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that betrayeth thee?
And Peter seeing him, sayeth to

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Jesus, Lord, what shall this man
do?

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Jesus said unto him, If I will,
that he tarry till I come.

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What is that to thee?
Follow thou me.

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00:17:09,839 –> 00:17:11,440
You know it doesn’t make it
sound like.

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00:17:11,560 –> 00:17:15,440
Mind your own business, Peter.
It’s none of your business.

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00:17:15,880 –> 00:17:20,720
What’s going to happen to him?
Why, if he stays here until the

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00:17:20,720 –> 00:17:23,280
2nd coming, I don’t see where
it’s any of your business,

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00:17:23,280 –> 00:17:26,240
Peter, You get down to the
business of following me quite

223
00:17:26,240 –> 00:17:29,280
often.
We we get all involved with what

224
00:17:29,280 –> 00:17:32,440
other brothers and sisters are
doing or not doing and taking

225
00:17:32,440 –> 00:17:34,360
our standards and our cues from
them.

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00:17:34,360 –> 00:17:37,520
And it’s none of our business in
a lot of that stuff.

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00:17:38,880 –> 00:17:42,680
We’re supposed to be at the
business of bringing our own

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00:17:42,680 –> 00:17:46,960
personal lives into harmony with
the principles of Jesus.

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00:17:50,120 –> 00:17:55,080
So we’re not supposed to be nosy
and busy body.

230
00:17:55,080 –> 00:17:58,120
So we’re not supposed to get
involved in witch hunts.

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00:17:59,440 –> 00:18:04,880
The Inquisition was the most
terrible, far more terrible than

232
00:18:04,880 –> 00:18:10,480
any of the Salem witch hunts,
one of the most unscriptural

233
00:18:10,480 –> 00:18:13,480
kinds of events that you could
have imagined done in the name

234
00:18:13,480 –> 00:18:17,800
of God.
I saw a bumper sticker a week

235
00:18:17,800 –> 00:18:22,120
ago and it said, oh, God, please
protect me from your followers.

236
00:18:24,240 –> 00:18:27,600
And you know, you think about
it, you think of what’s being

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00:18:27,600 –> 00:18:33,880
done now in the name of Allah,
what was done years ago, what

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00:18:33,880 –> 00:18:36,360
was done to Jesus in the name of
God.

239
00:18:39,320 –> 00:18:45,440
Yes, it’s bad business.
But in any event, we now want to

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00:18:45,440 –> 00:18:49,000
try to put these three
principles together, that we

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00:18:49,000 –> 00:18:51,480
have a mutual responsibility
towards our brother.

242
00:18:52,040 –> 00:18:54,520
On the other hand, we do have to
mind our own business.

243
00:18:54,880 –> 00:18:58,120
And in discharging that
responsibility, we have to do it

244
00:18:58,120 –> 00:19:01,920
in the right way.
Now the third one I I’ve got to

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00:19:01,920 –> 00:19:04,160
do now is the principle of
implementation.

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00:19:04,360 –> 00:19:07,000
Now we looked at the story in
Joshua 22 when we did the

247
00:19:07,000 –> 00:19:09,720
reading.
Now that’s quite an interesting

248
00:19:09,720 –> 00:19:12,760
story.
They were going into the land.

249
00:19:12,760 –> 00:19:17,560
And as you recall, Reuben, Gad
and half tribe of Manassas said

250
00:19:18,120 –> 00:19:21,360
this land on this side of Jordan
looks very good to us.

251
00:19:21,360 –> 00:19:24,280
Will it be all right if we take
this and the rest of you go

252
00:19:24,280 –> 00:19:27,840
ahead, We’ll help you conquer
the rest of the land.

253
00:19:28,040 –> 00:19:29,840
But this land looks like a good
land.

254
00:19:29,840 –> 00:19:32,760
And it was agreed and it was OK,
and it was OK with God.

255
00:19:34,960 –> 00:19:38,240
And so Reuben and Gad and half
tribe of Manassa stayed over

256
00:19:38,240 –> 00:19:40,480
here.
The rest of the tribes crossed

257
00:19:40,480 –> 00:19:46,040
Jordan, went into the land.
A little time goes by and the

258
00:19:46,040 –> 00:19:50,440
tribes, the bulk of the tribes,
they looked over the river, so

259
00:19:50,440 –> 00:19:58,520
to speak, and they saw an altar
under construction and they came

260
00:19:58,520 –> 00:20:02,440
to a conclusion and an assumed
conclusion, didn’t they?

261
00:20:02,720 –> 00:20:05,280
You might say they jumped to a
conclusion.

262
00:20:05,440 –> 00:20:06,880
What was the conclusion they
jumped to?

263
00:20:08,200 –> 00:20:11,840
They’re taking up idol worship.
They’re going to bring the wrath

264
00:20:11,840 –> 00:20:15,560
of God down upon themselves and
the rest of us.

265
00:20:17,040 –> 00:20:21,720
Because you clearly see the the
the the principle of having a

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00:20:21,720 –> 00:20:25,360
mutual responsibility each for
each other throughout the

267
00:20:25,360 –> 00:20:29,120
history of Israel and how God
held the people accountable for

268
00:20:29,120 –> 00:20:32,120
each other.
But what did they do?

269
00:20:32,160 –> 00:20:36,400
They jumped to this conclusion.
They got their armies together

270
00:20:36,560 –> 00:20:42,480
and they were just this side of
going to war when fortunately

271
00:20:42,600 –> 00:20:45,840
they had some negotiation.
Now would have been a lot

272
00:20:45,840 –> 00:20:48,280
simpler if they’d had the
negotiation earlier, wouldn’t

273
00:20:48,280 –> 00:20:50,560
it?
But they, fortunately they,

274
00:20:50,560 –> 00:20:55,040
they, they had a, a delegation
and met with them and said, what

275
00:20:55,040 –> 00:20:56,880
are you doing?
They placed the accusation

276
00:20:56,880 –> 00:20:59,840
before them.
The response came back and said,

277
00:20:59,840 –> 00:21:02,680
no, you’ve misunderstood us.
That’s not our intent.

278
00:21:02,880 –> 00:21:06,960
We’re not setting up an idol for
for an altar for idol worship.

279
00:21:06,960 –> 00:21:11,720
We’re not even setting up an
alternate altar for to worship

280
00:21:11,720 –> 00:21:13,920
God.
This is simply going to be a

281
00:21:13,920 –> 00:21:16,280
symbol.
It’s going to be made the same

282
00:21:16,280 –> 00:21:20,280
way yours is, so that in the
future, nobody’s going to be

283
00:21:20,280 –> 00:21:22,080
able to say that we’re not part
of you.

284
00:21:22,080 –> 00:21:24,640
We’re going to be able to say,
look, see, we’ve got the same

285
00:21:24,640 –> 00:21:26,640
kind.
We were part of the same plan

286
00:21:26,640 –> 00:21:30,360
right from the beginning and so
everybody was happy with it.

287
00:21:31,440 –> 00:21:38,480
But what we see there was an
almost fatal example of not

288
00:21:38,480 –> 00:21:40,160
doing something in the right
way.

289
00:21:41,440 –> 00:21:45,480
They should have gone 1st and
asked the question before they

290
00:21:45,480 –> 00:21:48,440
jumped to the conclusion.
It’s the kind of thing we can

291
00:21:48,440 –> 00:21:50,080
do, isn’t it?
We can see a brother coming out

292
00:21:50,080 –> 00:21:57,480
of a bar or or this or that, and
we can jump to a conclusion and

293
00:21:57,480 –> 00:21:59,960
we can begin to ascribe
motivation.

294
00:22:00,120 –> 00:22:05,280
Or we can hear her brother come
up with some strange idea

295
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:11,360
doctrinally in the Bible class.
And then sometimes we can take

296
00:22:11,360 –> 00:22:15,960
it to its obvious conclusions,
obvious to us, maybe not to him,

297
00:22:17,120 –> 00:22:22,200
and see the danger of it, and
attribute to him bad motives,

298
00:22:22,560 –> 00:22:26,000
wrong motives, when in reality
he’s maybe just a little mixed

299
00:22:26,000 –> 00:22:32,240
up in his thinking.
That’s why Jesus lays out in

300
00:22:32,240 –> 00:22:37,320
Matthew 18 what we all know and
refer to as the doing something

301
00:22:37,320 –> 00:22:45,000
in the spirit of Matthew 18.
And here is the single most

302
00:22:45,000 –> 00:22:51,120
important guiding principle for
guiding our actions and

303
00:22:51,120 –> 00:22:54,040
discharging our mutual
responsibilities to each other,

304
00:22:57,280 –> 00:22:59,680
coming in at the Matthew 18 at
the 15th verse.

305
00:22:59,680 –> 00:23:03,600
Moreover, if thy brother shall
trespass against thee, go and

306
00:23:03,600 –> 00:23:08,760
tell him his fault between thee
and him alone.

307
00:23:10,520 –> 00:23:13,080
If he shall hear thee, thou hast
gained thy brother.

308
00:23:14,200 –> 00:23:17,560
But if he will not hear thee,
then take with thee one or two

309
00:23:17,560 –> 00:23:21,480
more, that in the mouth of two
or three witnesses every word

310
00:23:21,480 –> 00:23:26,320
may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear

311
00:23:26,360 –> 00:23:31,800
them, tell it unto the church.
But if he neglect to hear the

312
00:23:31,800 –> 00:23:36,320
church, and let him be unto thee
as an heathen man and a tax

313
00:23:36,320 –> 00:23:42,720
collector, somebody that’s
outside of the fellowship of the

314
00:23:42,720 –> 00:23:47,360
body.
And so we, we always refer to

315
00:23:47,360 –> 00:23:51,520
that, but we, we’re not always
good at doing that.

316
00:23:51,920 –> 00:23:54,920
Obviously, if the rest of the
tribes at Israel had done that,

317
00:23:54,920 –> 00:23:57,480
they would have sent the
ambassador first and said,

318
00:23:57,480 –> 00:23:58,760
somebody, why are you doing
this?

319
00:23:58,760 –> 00:24:02,440
They would have found out and
there would not have been all of

320
00:24:02,440 –> 00:24:06,600
that uproar and that danger of a
civil war.

321
00:24:08,880 –> 00:24:11,960
And in our lives, that’s the way
we, we, we need to approach

322
00:24:11,960 –> 00:24:14,760
these things.
And that’s why we emphasized

323
00:24:14,760 –> 00:24:19,640
earlier that even that incident
in First Corinthians 5 would

324
00:24:19,640 –> 00:24:23,760
have begun with somebody raising
the issue, somebody.

325
00:24:24,240 –> 00:24:29,080
And hopefully he did it right,
went to the brother who had

326
00:24:29,080 –> 00:24:35,040
taken his father’s wife, spoke
to him about it, admonished him,

327
00:24:35,560 –> 00:24:38,200
hopefully did it right, got
nowhere.

328
00:24:38,200 –> 00:24:40,000
Hopefully went and got a couple
of other members of the

329
00:24:40,000 –> 00:24:44,040
ecclesia, went there, and then
finally took the matter public

330
00:24:44,520 –> 00:24:48,160
and involved even the apostle
Paul himself.

331
00:24:50,080 –> 00:24:53,480
There’s a right way to do
something in a wrong way you

332
00:24:53,480 –> 00:24:55,840
have to do.
We have to not only do the right

333
00:24:55,840 –> 00:24:58,240
thing, but we have to do it in a
right way.

334
00:25:01,440 –> 00:25:06,280
And doing it quietly is often
better.

335
00:25:07,200 –> 00:25:11,120
As it says, you will have gained
your brother.

336
00:25:13,080 –> 00:25:15,840
So if we take these three
principles and try to synthesize

337
00:25:15,840 –> 00:25:19,240
them, the mutual responsibility,
minding our own business and

338
00:25:19,240 –> 00:25:21,600
then doing something in the
spirit of Matthew 18, if we try

339
00:25:21,600 –> 00:25:25,320
to synthesize them all together,
it might sound like this.

340
00:25:26,320 –> 00:25:29,440
We have mutual responsibilities
towards our brother’s spiritual

341
00:25:29,440 –> 00:25:35,560
well-being when information that
we have not sought comes to our

342
00:25:35,560 –> 00:25:41,320
attention that he is in danger,
and that responsibility must be

343
00:25:41,320 –> 00:25:47,400
discharged in love with great
carefulness, privately if at all

344
00:25:47,400 –> 00:25:52,240
possible.
So that takes the three

345
00:25:52,240 –> 00:25:58,320
principles and synthesizes them
into one guiding rule.

346
00:26:00,080 –> 00:26:02,960
Now, what should we do in
specific situations, however,

347
00:26:02,960 –> 00:26:05,560
whether or not we should involve
another brother or take the

348
00:26:05,560 –> 00:26:10,360
matter to the ecclesia or even
call the police, when it comes

349
00:26:10,360 –> 00:26:13,920
to taking these principles and
actually implementing them in

350
00:26:13,920 –> 00:26:19,840
specific situations, now you
have to use your judgement.

351
00:26:19,840 –> 00:26:23,920
That’s what this is all about.
This is what God’s about with

352
00:26:23,920 –> 00:26:26,760
us, isn’t it?
I’ve given you principles.

353
00:26:27,120 –> 00:26:33,040
I’ve given you situations and he
wants to see how we’re going to

354
00:26:33,040 –> 00:26:36,800
act and how we’re going to learn
to implement his guiding

355
00:26:36,800 –> 00:26:39,040
principles in specific
situations.

356
00:26:41,640 –> 00:26:45,560
And so we have to start using
judgement in differentiating

357
00:26:45,560 –> 00:26:49,400
between degrees of importance
and urgency.

358
00:26:52,440 –> 00:26:56,240
There won’t ever be total
agreement between people about

359
00:26:56,720 –> 00:26:59,920
how important this is versus
that or how urgent this is

360
00:26:59,920 –> 00:27:02,960
versus that.
But generally speaking, we know

361
00:27:03,280 –> 00:27:05,560
there are some things that are
very important but aren’t all

362
00:27:05,560 –> 00:27:09,360
that urgent.
Some issues are very urgent,

363
00:27:10,440 –> 00:27:13,440
like a, a squawking baby, but
might not be all that important

364
00:27:13,640 –> 00:27:19,440
really.
And so a kind of a guide rule.

365
00:27:19,440 –> 00:27:22,400
And now and now we’re getting
into the area of 1 brother’s

366
00:27:22,400 –> 00:27:26,600
opinion, just to share one
brother’s opinion with you

367
00:27:27,000 –> 00:27:30,200
relative to these principles
that you are going to have to

368
00:27:30,200 –> 00:27:36,040
implement in your life to
differentiate between real and

369
00:27:36,040 –> 00:27:42,120
immediate danger to salvation
versus something that’s not

370
00:27:42,120 –> 00:27:44,640
quite so real and not quite so
immediate.

371
00:27:46,000 –> 00:27:51,240
For instance, filling one’s mind
with entertainment movies and

372
00:27:51,240 –> 00:27:56,680
books that that will erode one’s
sense of right and wrong will

373
00:27:56,680 –> 00:28:00,000
ultimately prove fatal to 1’s
salvation.

374
00:28:03,240 –> 00:28:07,960
However, that’s a lot different
than taking drugs and finding

375
00:28:08,080 –> 00:28:12,440
out that somebody’s got a major
drug problem.

376
00:28:13,280 –> 00:28:17,160
You see as an there’s an example
of something that’s very real

377
00:28:17,240 –> 00:28:22,080
and immediate.
There’s a matter of questioning

378
00:28:22,080 –> 00:28:25,240
A belief, somebody that’s
questioning A belief or a

379
00:28:25,240 –> 00:28:29,760
practice of the ecclesia versus
someone who’s actually

380
00:28:29,880 –> 00:28:33,960
advocating a new doctrine, a
wrong doctrine, a wrong

381
00:28:34,200 –> 00:28:40,600
practice, a wrong lifestyle.
Another guiding principle about

382
00:28:40,600 –> 00:28:45,600
how fast or how soon or how
strongly you might react would

383
00:28:45,600 –> 00:28:50,560
be is what’s happening
endangering one’s self or is it

384
00:28:50,560 –> 00:28:55,880
endangering others?
Now, for instance, we as an

385
00:28:55,880 –> 00:28:59,720
ecclesia, part of our first
principles is we believe that

386
00:28:59,720 –> 00:29:03,560
Jesus has commanded us to meet
here each week or as often as we

387
00:29:03,560 –> 00:29:07,520
can, to be more specific.
And we believe that if you don’t

388
00:29:07,840 –> 00:29:11,400
meet here, if you don’t think
that’s important, well, if

389
00:29:11,400 –> 00:29:14,520
someone wanted to be baptized
and said, but we don’t think we

390
00:29:14,520 –> 00:29:17,000
have to break bread, we’d, we’d,
we’d, we’d see, let’s talk about

391
00:29:17,000 –> 00:29:19,040
that some more, wouldn’t we?
We, we wouldn’t really go ahead

392
00:29:19,040 –> 00:29:21,640
there, would we?
By the same token, if someone’s

393
00:29:21,760 –> 00:29:24,880
continually absent from the
meeting for no reason,

394
00:29:25,080 –> 00:29:29,520
eventually we’ll do something.
But we’re not in a hurry.

395
00:29:29,720 –> 00:29:33,520
Why?
It’s endangering himself.

396
00:29:34,400 –> 00:29:39,760
It’s not endangering others.
You can you take maybe a more

397
00:29:39,760 –> 00:29:46,080
relaxed approach to something
like that versus someone who’s

398
00:29:48,400 –> 00:29:52,200
attending and doing everything
and speaking, taking his turn

399
00:29:52,200 –> 00:29:57,440
speaking, but also living in sin
that you say, wait a minute, got

400
00:29:57,520 –> 00:29:59,680
to we got to deal with that
right away.

401
00:29:59,680 –> 00:30:04,040
That’s making a hypocrisy of
everything in front of

402
00:30:04,040 –> 00:30:11,120
everybody’s eyes.
Holding beliefs or acting in

403
00:30:11,120 –> 00:30:13,680
ways that will endanger the
individual’s salvation is one

404
00:30:13,680 –> 00:30:16,440
thing That’s private versus
making statements and setting a

405
00:30:16,440 –> 00:30:19,640
public example in one’s life by
acting in ways that the Bible

406
00:30:19,640 –> 00:30:22,400
says will result in being cast
out of the Kingdom of God.

407
00:30:22,640 –> 00:30:27,080
That’s public.
And that’s different as a matter

408
00:30:27,080 –> 00:30:32,360
of becoming aware of illegal
activities, activities that may

409
00:30:32,360 –> 00:30:38,360
endanger young people.
And now here, a very practical,

410
00:30:38,360 –> 00:30:43,200
simple word of advice is when
one becomes involved in somebody

411
00:30:43,200 –> 00:30:47,000
else’s problem, do not agree to
secrecy.

412
00:30:50,080 –> 00:30:51,880
I’ve got a problem.
If I talk to you about it, it

413
00:30:52,880 –> 00:30:54,640
won’t go anywhere other than
between us.

414
00:30:55,240 –> 00:30:59,920
Oh, no, you can come to me.
Don’t do that.

415
00:31:01,600 –> 00:31:04,160
You’ve just forsworn yourself to
secrecy.

416
00:31:06,680 –> 00:31:11,240
And what if the secret you’re
about to be told is I’ve got

417
00:31:11,240 –> 00:31:16,560
this urge to kill my wife?
I mean, there’s laws in the land

418
00:31:16,560 –> 00:31:20,600
about that, that even
psychologists and psychiatrists,

419
00:31:21,600 –> 00:31:25,000
they’re not allowed to keep
those secrets.

420
00:31:26,000 –> 00:31:30,560
They can be sent to jail for
keeping those secrets.

421
00:31:32,000 –> 00:31:35,680
The law, in many ways, is just
and good and wise.

422
00:31:38,400 –> 00:31:42,680
The easiest way to avoid getting
yourself into that trap is not

423
00:31:42,680 –> 00:31:47,040
to go into it in the first case.
Just respond in a mature way.

424
00:31:48,960 –> 00:31:51,600
I can keep reasonable secrets.
I don’t know what you’re going

425
00:31:51,600 –> 00:31:57,160
to tell me, so I’m afraid if the
price of your sharing this fact

426
00:31:57,160 –> 00:32:01,200
with me is my forswearing myself
to secrecy, I’d just soon pass.

427
00:32:01,680 –> 00:32:07,600
Go ahead and tell somebody else.
There’s absolutely no need for

428
00:32:07,600 –> 00:32:12,600
you or I to allow ourselves to
get compromised by someone

429
00:32:12,600 –> 00:32:16,880
else’s situation.
They’re going to tell you

430
00:32:16,880 –> 00:32:20,240
anyway.
Don’t worry too much about being

431
00:32:20,240 –> 00:32:23,760
left out.
But just then you don’t have to

432
00:32:23,760 –> 00:32:26,440
live with it.
And, and we’ve had brethren and

433
00:32:26,440 –> 00:32:31,000
sisters that have been really
plagued with that.

434
00:32:31,880 –> 00:32:36,000
They’ve tried to be helpful and
then they become aware and then

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00:32:36,000 –> 00:32:39,320
they become fearful that they’re
even acting maybe as an enabler.

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00:32:41,120 –> 00:32:45,560
Because that’s what happens,
doesn’t it, In situations where

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00:32:45,560 –> 00:32:48,480
they grow little by little, like
alcohol and drugs.

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00:32:48,720 –> 00:32:52,720
And the next thing you know,
you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re

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00:32:52,720 –> 00:32:58,080
virtually allowing the person to
continue down a path that you

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00:32:58,080 –> 00:33:06,760
know is going to be fatal.
So to summarize, we’ve discussed

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00:33:06,760 –> 00:33:12,640
the three principles.
Our advice would be that we work

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00:33:12,640 –> 00:33:19,920
one-on-one doing all we can to
help, bringing in outside an

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00:33:19,920 –> 00:33:24,680
ecclesial help where it is
mutually agreeable or absolutely

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00:33:24,680 –> 00:33:28,280
necessary in the spirit of
Matthew 18.

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00:33:30,040 –> 00:33:33,000
With the knowledge that if the
problem is serious enough, there

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00:33:33,000 –> 00:33:37,440
may come a point in the process
where you will have to start

447
00:33:37,440 –> 00:33:40,080
encouraging the person to come
forward to the ecclesia

448
00:33:40,080 –> 00:33:45,400
themselves if their beliefs and
or lifestyle issues are not in

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00:33:45,400 –> 00:33:47,880
harmony with our mutually held
beliefs.

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00:33:52,320 –> 00:33:58,600
Well, now we will turn to the
emblems partaking of the bread

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00:33:58,600 –> 00:34:02,520
and wine, which will remind us,
of course, of Jesus and

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00:34:02,560 –> 00:34:06,880
specifically His example and His
teachings in this area.

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00:34:09,719 –> 00:34:14,400
We looked at His teachings in
Matthew 18 and we look at His

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00:34:14,400 –> 00:34:17,639
example.
He came and discharged His

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00:34:17,639 –> 00:34:23,760
responsibility for Israel’s
spiritual health by showing love

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00:34:24,400 –> 00:34:27,760
in the form of rebuking their
evil ways.

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00:34:30,400 –> 00:34:36,800
Our forefathers took care of him
as they had taken care of all

458
00:34:36,800 –> 00:34:42,719
the prophets that had preceded
him who were doing the same

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00:34:42,719 –> 00:34:47,840
thing.
None of us broke criticism

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00:34:48,440 –> 00:34:53,639
gladly, especially if we see
ourselves as doing all right and

461
00:34:53,639 –> 00:34:55,159
perhaps a little better than
most.

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00:34:58,400 –> 00:35:03,520
We have rejected what the
forefathers did.

463
00:35:04,880 –> 00:35:09,720
We’ve dedicated ourselves to
living lives open to God’s words

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00:35:10,520 –> 00:35:18,400
and its criticisms of our lives
and to some degree, our success

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00:35:18,440 –> 00:35:22,360
in not following in the
footsteps of those who rejected

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00:35:22,360 –> 00:35:25,880
Christ.
We’ll be measured by our own

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00:35:25,880 –> 00:35:30,520
ability to hear our brothers and
sisters when they take the time,

468
00:35:31,560 –> 00:35:38,680
go out of their way and expose
themselves to our response.

469
00:35:41,880 –> 00:35:46,360
Our response that may be less
than Christ like to show their

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00:35:46,360 –> 00:35:50,960
love and concern for our
spiritual welfare by hopefully

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00:35:51,120 –> 00:35:56,120
gently rebuking us.
We’re all very thankful that

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00:35:56,240 –> 00:35:59,960
Jesus did not shirk His
responsibility to lovingly

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00:35:59,960 –> 00:36:17,040
rebuke our sinful tendencies.
Thank you for listening to the

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00:36:17,040 –> 00:36:18,640
good Chris Adelphian Talks
podcast.

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00:36:19,440 –> 00:36:21,920
We hope this talk helped you in
your walk and brightened your

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00:36:21,920 –> 00:36:24,280
day.
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477
00:36:24,280 –> 00:36:26,040
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God bless and talk to you next
week.