{"id":1358,"date":"2025-08-25T00:00:01","date_gmt":"2025-08-25T00:00:01","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/goodchristadelphiantalks.com\/index.php\/podcast\/362-podcast-showcase-wilderness-conversations\/"},"modified":"2026-08-23T23:21:56","modified_gmt":"2026-08-23T23:21:56","slug":"362-podcast-showcase-wilderness-conversations","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/goodchristadelphiantalks.com\/index.php\/podcast\/362-podcast-showcase-wilderness-conversations\/","title":{"rendered":"362: Podcast Showcase – Wilderness Conversations"},"content":{"rendered":"

For this week’s talk, we are listening to “My Journey in Faith – Ron Hicks” which is the 95th episode from the Wilderness Conversations Podcast, another Christadelphian podcast that we think you should be listening to as well!<\/p>\n

We hope this strengthens your Faith and brightens your day!<\/p>\n

Thank you for listening, God bless, and talk to you next week.<\/p>\n

Send talk suggestions or comments to:\u00a0\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060GoodChristadelphianTalks@gmail.com\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060<\/a><\/p>\n

For Show Notes, visit our website:\u00a0\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060GoodChristadelphianTalks.com\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060\u2060<\/a><\/p>\n

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1
\n00:00:01,000 –> 00:00:04,360
\nHi everyone, it’s Levi.
\nI’m excited to share another <\/p>\n

2
\n00:00:04,360 –> 00:00:07,720
\npodcast for us to highlight.
\nPodcasts have been around for a <\/p>\n

3
\n00:00:07,720 –> 00:00:10,320
\nwhile.
\nIt’s been an interesting, you <\/p>\n

4
\n00:00:10,320 –> 00:00:14,040
\nknow, last eight years, you
\nknow, pod, I guess podcasting <\/p>\n

5
\n00:00:14,040 –> 00:00:15,720
\nitself has been around for a
\nmuch longer time. <\/p>\n

6
\n00:00:16,200 –> 00:00:20,680
\nOur, this, but this show we’ve
\nbeen running now for a, like we <\/p>\n

7
\n00:00:20,680 –> 00:00:24,320
\nsaid, almost eight years, but
\nit’s been really encouraging to <\/p>\n

8
\n00:00:24,320 –> 00:00:27,080
\nkind of highlight the work that
\nother brothers and sisters are <\/p>\n

9
\n00:00:27,080 –> 00:00:30,680
\ndoing in this field.
\nIt’s I’m, I’m a massive podcast <\/p>\n

10
\n00:00:30,680 –> 00:00:33,200
\nconsumer.
\nI listen to, I don’t know, 3 or <\/p>\n

11
\n00:00:33,200 –> 00:00:36,440
\n4 hours of podcasting every day.
\nI’m doing my chores or in my <\/p>\n

12
\n00:00:36,440 –> 00:00:39,520
\nlong commute.
\nSo that’s a, you know, one of <\/p>\n

13
\n00:00:39,520 –> 00:00:42,400
\nour core principles with it’s in
\nour intro for good yourself in <\/p>\n

14
\n00:00:42,400 –> 00:00:45,360
\ntalks is we’re trying to get the
\nBible in your Daily News feed. <\/p>\n

15
\n00:00:45,360 –> 00:00:50,360
\nAnd it’s been it’s so helpful to
\nme how much our other brothers <\/p>\n

16
\n00:00:50,360 –> 00:00:53,720
\nand sisters are are doing.
\nAnd so it’s been really great. <\/p>\n

17
\n00:00:53,720 –> 00:00:56,360
\nI think to highlight these, I
\nwanted to kind of shout out <\/p>\n

18
\n00:00:56,680 –> 00:00:59,720
\nother shows that we that we
\ndidn’t get to mention. <\/p>\n

19
\n00:00:59,920 –> 00:01:02,960
\nWe actually have a page called
\nresources on our website on <\/p>\n

20
\n00:01:02,960 –> 00:01:05,560
\ngoodcrystalfiantalks.com that
\nyou can click that it links out <\/p>\n

21
\n00:01:06,320 –> 00:01:09,920
\nto other podcasts.
\nBut also I wanted to shout out <\/p>\n

22
\n00:01:09,920 –> 00:01:14,200
\nspecifically Jason.
\nSo Jason Hensley, our Co host <\/p>\n

23
\n00:01:14,200 –> 00:01:17,800
\nhere has a weekly podcast called
\nEnd of Week Encouragement, which<\/p>\n

24
\n00:01:18,000 –> 00:01:20,560
\nI subscribe to and I would
\nadvise you do too. <\/p>\n

25
\n00:01:21,480 –> 00:01:25,640
\nI am just now sunsetting.
\nI’m finishing a different show <\/p>\n

26
\n00:01:25,640 –> 00:01:28,120
\ncalled A Little Faith, which is
\nactually very similar to <\/p>\n

27
\n00:01:28,120 –> 00:01:29,920
\nWilderness Conversations.
\nI’ll talk more about that in a <\/p>\n

28
\n00:01:29,920 –> 00:01:32,440
\nminute.
\nAnd then once in a while we post<\/p>\n

29
\n00:01:33,120 –> 00:01:36,080
\nan episode on Good Christelphian
\nMusic, which is another podcast <\/p>\n

30
\n00:01:36,080 –> 00:01:37,680
\nspecifically about Christelphian
\nmusic. <\/p>\n

31
\n00:01:38,400 –> 00:01:42,320
\nI have so much respect for all
\nthese shows and kind of the work<\/p>\n

32
\n00:01:42,320 –> 00:01:44,760
\nthat goes into these podcasts,
\nWilderness Conversations as an <\/p>\n

33
\n00:01:44,760 –> 00:01:51,240
\nexample, but also, but also
\nfaith works and and essential <\/p>\n

34
\n00:01:51,240 –> 00:01:52,840
\nBible studies, which we
\nhighlighted earlier in the <\/p>\n

35
\n00:01:52,840 –> 00:01:54,320
\nmonth.
\nThey take so much more work <\/p>\n

36
\n00:01:54,320 –> 00:01:56,680
\nreally than our show does than
\ngood Gracelfy and talk does. <\/p>\n

37
\n00:01:56,880 –> 00:02:00,880
\nWe we listen to a lot of talks
\nand then put in the intro. <\/p>\n

38
\n00:02:01,360 –> 00:02:03,920
\nDoesn’t take much work, right,
\nfor us to record an intro or <\/p>\n

39
\n00:02:03,920 –> 00:02:07,480
\nprepare for that.
\nIt takes me, you know, 10-15 <\/p>\n

40
\n00:02:07,480 –> 00:02:10,600
\nminutes tops.
\nAnd the the these other shows <\/p>\n

41
\n00:02:10,600 –> 00:02:14,120
\nhave hours of preparation that
\ngo into them, which is pretty <\/p>\n

42
\n00:02:14,120 –> 00:02:15,680
\nevident.
\nSo anyways, I wanted to take a <\/p>\n

43
\n00:02:15,680 –> 00:02:19,400
\nminute to kind of thank the
\nbrothers and sisters who who <\/p>\n

44
\n00:02:19,400 –> 00:02:23,200
\nhave spent time podcasting and
\nencourage anyone else. <\/p>\n

45
\n00:02:23,200 –> 00:02:25,640
\nIf you want to start a podcast,
\nif you have an idea for one, <\/p>\n

46
\n00:02:25,640 –> 00:02:28,480
\nwe’d love to help you.
\nAnd we, we would love to enjoy <\/p>\n

47
\n00:02:29,080 –> 00:02:32,080
\nand be encouraged by, by your
\nwork. <\/p>\n

48
\n00:02:32,640 –> 00:02:35,000
\nBut it is hard.
\nIt’s as I just said, I’ve, I’m <\/p>\n

49
\n00:02:35,000 –> 00:02:38,760
\nclosing a different show called
\nthe little faith because it’s <\/p>\n

50
\n00:02:38,760 –> 00:02:40,320
\nhard.
\nIt’s hard to keep the energy and<\/p>\n

51
\n00:02:40,320 –> 00:02:45,600
\nto keep the engagement, but to
\nthat and yeah, this this show, <\/p>\n

52
\n00:02:45,600 –> 00:02:48,280
\nWilderness Conversations has
\nbeen such a great discovery for <\/p>\n

53
\n00:02:48,280 –> 00:02:49,840
\nme and I’m sad I was kind of
\nlate to it. <\/p>\n

54
\n00:02:49,880 –> 00:02:55,040
\nBrother Stephen Dodson has been
\nhosting it for almost five years<\/p>\n

55
\n00:02:55,040 –> 00:02:57,560
\nnow.
\nHe started in 2020, actually <\/p>\n

56
\n00:02:57,560 –> 00:02:58,680
\nthis month.
\nI’m looking at it now. <\/p>\n

57
\n00:02:58,680 –> 00:03:03,080
\nSo he this show is officially
\npassed its first five years. <\/p>\n

58
\n00:03:03,920 –> 00:03:06,320
\nAnd this has been a really
\nexcellent show. <\/p>\n

59
\n00:03:06,320 –> 00:03:09,320
\nBrother Stephen does a really
\ngreat job in these interviews <\/p>\n

60
\n00:03:09,600 –> 00:03:13,240
\nwith these different people.
\nAnd this is a good example. <\/p>\n

61
\n00:03:13,240 –> 00:03:18,240
\nThe one we’re sharing is Uncle
\nRon Hicks sharing his story of <\/p>\n

62
\n00:03:18,240 –> 00:03:21,520
\nfaith.
\nI have a connection to brother <\/p>\n

63
\n00:03:21,520 –> 00:03:25,160
\nRon and, and actually they talk
\nabout his book in this, in this <\/p>\n

64
\n00:03:25,160 –> 00:03:27,680
\nepisode.
\nIt’s kind of a review of his <\/p>\n

65
\n00:03:27,680 –> 00:03:29,520
\nbook, which came out about 15
\nyears ago. <\/p>\n

66
\n00:03:30,320 –> 00:03:34,000
\nAnd I just have this very unique
\nstory which I’ll tell Jess, my, <\/p>\n

67
\n00:03:34,360 –> 00:03:40,760
\nmy wife, sister Jess and I were
\nin India together helping at the<\/p>\n

68
\n00:03:40,760 –> 00:03:44,600
\nShunam home in 2010 when this
\nbook was released. <\/p>\n

69
\n00:03:45,080 –> 00:03:48,000
\nAnd by chance, we got a copy out
\nthere in India. <\/p>\n

70
\n00:03:48,000 –> 00:03:52,040
\nAnd I got terribly sick just for
\na couple of days and read the <\/p>\n

71
\n00:03:52,040 –> 00:03:57,680
\nwhole book in my, in my bed
\nthere in India and told my <\/p>\n

72
\n00:03:57,680 –> 00:03:59,640
\ngrandfather about it, who was on
\nthe tidings committee at the <\/p>\n

73
\n00:03:59,640 –> 00:04:00,760
\ntime.
\nAnd he asked me to write a <\/p>\n

74
\n00:04:00,760 –> 00:04:02,760
\nreview.
\nSo I wrote the, I wrote the <\/p>\n

75
\n00:04:02,760 –> 00:04:07,080
\nTidings magazine’s review of
\nthis book in 2010 while I was <\/p>\n

76
\n00:04:07,080 –> 00:04:10,520
\nsick in India.
\nSo that’s why this, I was, I was<\/p>\n

77
\n00:04:10,520 –> 00:04:13,360
\nexcited to listen to this
\nepisode again, kind of remember <\/p>\n

78
\n00:04:13,360 –> 00:04:16,640
\nhow amazing the story is of, of
\nBrother Ron’s life and how, how <\/p>\n

79
\n00:04:16,640 –> 00:04:20,360
\nmany interesting things he did
\nkind of in, in his work and in <\/p>\n

80
\n00:04:20,360 –> 00:04:23,680
\nhis work in the truth.
\nSo it’s very encouraging very. <\/p>\n

81
\n00:04:23,680 –> 00:04:27,640
\nAnd and again, I really, I
\nreally enjoy how good of an <\/p>\n

82
\n00:04:27,640 –> 00:04:31,280
\ninterviewer Brother Steven is.
\nSo this is definitely a great <\/p>\n

83
\n00:04:31,280 –> 00:04:33,960
\nshow to go back on.
\nAgain, he has a five year back <\/p>\n

84
\n00:04:33,960 –> 00:04:35,480
\ncatalog with lots of great
\nepisodes. <\/p>\n

85
\n00:04:35,480 –> 00:04:39,480
\nI also would shout out there’s a
\nparenting episode pretty <\/p>\n

86
\n00:04:39,480 –> 00:04:41,600
\nrecently that I really enjoyed
\nwhen that came out. <\/p>\n

87
\n00:04:42,240 –> 00:04:45,920
\nSo this is a great, great
\nexample of I think a really <\/p>\n

88
\n00:04:45,920 –> 00:04:50,560
\nhelpful podcast.
\nSo that’s enough for me. <\/p>\n

89
\n00:04:50,560 –> 00:04:53,320
\nAgain, thank you to everyone for
\nlistening to this. <\/p>\n

90
\n00:04:53,320 –> 00:04:56,360
\nAnd I do encourage you to check
\nout the other podcasts that <\/p>\n

91
\n00:04:56,360 –> 00:04:59,480
\nwe’ve highlighted and, and the
\nones that we’ve listed on our <\/p>\n

92
\n00:04:59,480 –> 00:05:01,280
\nwebsite.
\nAnd if you have an idea of a <\/p>\n

93
\n00:05:01,280 –> 00:05:04,160
\npodcast you’d love, you want to
\nstart, I would love to support <\/p>\n

94
\n00:05:04,160 –> 00:05:05,840
\nthat.
\nSo thank you all. <\/p>\n

95
\n00:05:05,840 –> 00:05:09,800
\nAnd here is Wilderness
\nConversations, Brother Ron <\/p>\n

96
\n00:05:09,800 –> 00:05:30,480
\nHicks, my journey in faith.
\nRon Hicks was born in Adelaide, <\/p>\n

97
\n00:05:30,640 –> 00:05:34,320
\nwas baptised in Adelaide in
\nAugust 1953 and now lives in <\/p>\n

98
\n00:05:34,320 –> 00:05:37,480
\nAdelaide but has been in many
\nplaces in the meantime. <\/p>\n

99
\n00:05:38,120 –> 00:05:40,880
\nRon was a member of the
\nWashington DC Christadophian <\/p>\n

100
\n00:05:40,880 –> 00:05:44,920
\nChurch or Ecclesia for over 50
\nyears and now back in Adelaide <\/p>\n

101
\n00:05:45,120 –> 00:05:47,000
\nhe attends the Happy Valley
\nEcclesia. <\/p>\n

102
\n00:05:47,400 –> 00:05:50,320
\nRon joins Wilderness
\nConversations to share some of <\/p>\n

103
\n00:05:50,320 –> 00:06:04,310
\nhis journey of faith.
\nRon, thanks very much for <\/p>\n

104
\n00:06:04,310 –> 00:06:05,830
\njoining Wilderness
\nConversations. <\/p>\n

105
\n00:06:06,030 –> 00:06:07,630
\nRon, I’m very pleased to be here
\nwith you today. <\/p>\n

106
\n00:06:08,430 –> 00:06:12,520
\nYou wrote a book called my
\njourney in Faith, and you made a<\/p>\n

107
\n00:06:12,520 –> 00:06:14,800
\nreally interesting statement.
\nYou made lots of interesting <\/p>\n

108
\n00:06:14,800 –> 00:06:17,680
\nstatements, but in the in the
\npreface, you made an interesting<\/p>\n

109
\n00:06:17,680 –> 00:06:21,840
\nstatement around your motivation
\nfor writing the book because <\/p>\n

110
\n00:06:21,840 –> 00:06:25,640
\nyou, you made the point.
\nI’ll quote you had a long life <\/p>\n

111
\n00:06:25,640 –> 00:06:28,400
\naversion to talking very much
\nabout yourself. <\/p>\n

112
\n00:06:29,600 –> 00:06:32,360
\nI I resonate with this because
\npeople often say that to me when<\/p>\n

113
\n00:06:32,360 –> 00:06:34,160
\nI ask them to join me on the
\npodcast. <\/p>\n

114
\n00:06:36,440 –> 00:06:39,320
\nBut you had a reason why you
\nended up writing a book about <\/p>\n

115
\n00:06:39,320 –> 00:06:40,360
\nyour life.
\nWhat was that reason? <\/p>\n

116
\n00:06:40,360 –> 00:06:43,160
\nWell, the reason is this that I,
\nI really enjoy reading <\/p>\n

117
\n00:06:43,160 –> 00:06:46,320
\nbiographies and autobiographies.
\nI’ve always had a lifelong <\/p>\n

118
\n00:06:46,320 –> 00:06:48,600
\ninterest in that, in that sort
\nof literature. <\/p>\n

119
\n00:06:48,600 –> 00:06:55,280
\nAnd and you know, I read the,
\nthe a number, a number of books <\/p>\n

120
\n00:06:55,280 –> 00:06:58,760
\nin on that genre really.
\nBut then I, I thought I wish <\/p>\n

121
\n00:06:58,760 –> 00:07:00,960
\nmore brothers and sisters would
\nwrite these sorts of books. <\/p>\n

122
\n00:07:01,320 –> 00:07:04,400
\nAnd then as I mentioned in the
\npremise of the book, I, I <\/p>\n

123
\n00:07:04,400 –> 00:07:06,360
\nrealise I’d have been a bit
\ninconsistent. <\/p>\n

124
\n00:07:07,160 –> 00:07:09,440
\nI was wanting others to other
\nrather than sisters. <\/p>\n

125
\n00:07:09,480 –> 00:07:13,480
\nSo particularly to, to write,
\nwrite their autobiographies or <\/p>\n

126
\n00:07:14,480 –> 00:07:16,360
\nthen wasn’t prepared to do it
\nmyself. <\/p>\n

127
\n00:07:16,800 –> 00:07:18,800
\nSo that that was a sort of a key
\nmotivation. <\/p>\n

128
\n00:07:19,000 –> 00:07:22,240
\nAnd on top of that, the, the
\nsister in the Otto work Leisure <\/p>\n

129
\n00:07:22,240 –> 00:07:25,800
\nin Canada, who’s a professional
\neditor and for the Tardings <\/p>\n

130
\n00:07:25,800 –> 00:07:28,000
\nmagazine.
\nAnd she pressed me quite <\/p>\n

131
\n00:07:28,000 –> 00:07:30,760
\nstrongly to sort of move in that
\ndirection. <\/p>\n

132
\n00:07:30,760 –> 00:07:34,240
\nSo that’s how it all happened.
\nWell, it’s out of print now, but<\/p>\n

133
\n00:07:34,240 –> 00:07:36,760
\nI managed to get my hands on a
\ncopy and it’s a fantastic read <\/p>\n

134
\n00:07:36,760 –> 00:07:39,560
\nand I really enjoyed it and
\nfound it quite engaging all the <\/p>\n

135
\n00:07:39,560 –> 00:07:42,160
\nway through and quite
\nencouraging as well. <\/p>\n

136
\n00:07:42,160 –> 00:07:45,760
\nSo for those who haven’t got it,
\nI’m not sure if you can get it, <\/p>\n

137
\n00:07:45,760 –> 00:07:48,480
\nI assume it’s out of print, but
\nthere’s plenty of copies <\/p>\n

138
\n00:07:48,480 –> 00:07:50,240
\nfloating around.
\nYou’ll have a but you’ll <\/p>\n

139
\n00:07:50,240 –> 00:07:51,680
\nprobably find someone who’s got
\na copy. <\/p>\n

140
\n00:07:53,200 –> 00:07:57,000
\nLet’s go back to the beginning
\nfor you and just tell us a <\/p>\n

141
\n00:07:57,000 –> 00:07:59,360
\nlittle bit about where you were
\nborn, where you grew up, and <\/p>\n

142
\n00:07:59,360 –> 00:08:03,280
\nsome of the, you know, the
\nimportant early influences in <\/p>\n

143
\n00:08:03,280 –> 00:08:05,880
\nyour life.
\nOK, well, I was born here in <\/p>\n

144
\n00:08:05,880 –> 00:08:09,320
\nAdelaide, South Australia.
\nI was very blessed actually <\/p>\n

145
\n00:08:09,320 –> 00:08:12,000
\nbecause I was born up in a very,
\na very godly home. <\/p>\n

146
\n00:08:12,640 –> 00:08:15,440
\nBut my, both my parents actually
\ndid not come from particularly <\/p>\n

147
\n00:08:15,440 –> 00:08:18,600
\nreligious backgrounds, but they,
\nthey came to the truth just <\/p>\n

148
\n00:08:18,600 –> 00:08:23,360
\nbefore their marriage and they
\nprovided my brother and myself <\/p>\n

149
\n00:08:23,360 –> 00:08:26,720
\nwith a really wonderful, a
\nwonderful spiritual environment.<\/p>\n

150
\n00:08:26,720 –> 00:08:29,240
\nIt was very stable.
\nIt was very spiritually focused.<\/p>\n

151
\n00:08:30,120 –> 00:08:34,360
\nSo as I dedicated my, my book,
\nI, I dedicated to them their, <\/p>\n

152
\n00:08:34,600 –> 00:08:37,640
\ntheir influence was, was
\nexceptional. <\/p>\n

153
\n00:08:38,080 –> 00:08:41,480
\nAnd so the home influence was
\nvery, very powerful and strong <\/p>\n

154
\n00:08:41,480 –> 00:08:45,800
\nand, and sustaining.
\nBut at the same time, at the, at<\/p>\n

155
\n00:08:45,800 –> 00:08:47,720
\nthe time the Adelaide eclosure
\nwas very large. <\/p>\n

156
\n00:08:47,720 –> 00:08:51,080
\nWhen I was growing up, it was a,
\nit was a big eclosure of 5-6 <\/p>\n

157
\n00:08:51,080 –> 00:08:53,960
\nhundred members.
\nIt was really quite sizeable and<\/p>\n

158
\n00:08:53,960 –> 00:08:57,400
\nit was a wonderful, wonderful
\neclosure environment. <\/p>\n

159
\n00:08:57,400 –> 00:08:59,720
\nSo I had a wonderful mixture
\nreally. <\/p>\n

160
\n00:08:59,720 –> 00:09:04,040
\nI had a very good family
\nbackground, spiritual background<\/p>\n

161
\n00:09:04,040 –> 00:09:06,200
\nthere.
\nAnd I had a very strong <\/p>\n

162
\n00:09:06,520 –> 00:09:09,400
\nexclusive background which
\nprovided all all sorts of <\/p>\n

163
\n00:09:09,400 –> 00:09:13,000
\nspiritual encouragement for for
\nfolk, including young folk. <\/p>\n

164
\n00:09:13,680 –> 00:09:17,520
\nAnd I feel that I benefit from
\nthat from both those enterprises<\/p>\n

165
\n00:09:17,520 –> 00:09:20,320
\nto a major degree.
\nWhere did your mum and dad come <\/p>\n

166
\n00:09:20,320 –> 00:09:24,960
\ninto contact with the gospel?
\nWell, my, my father had a before<\/p>\n

167
\n00:09:24,960 –> 00:09:29,240
\nhe was married, had a next door
\nneighbor, who I must say rather <\/p>\n

168
\n00:09:29,720 –> 00:09:34,720
\neccentric brother, whose name I
\nwon’t mention, of course, who, <\/p>\n

169
\n00:09:34,720 –> 00:09:37,440
\nwho was very interested in
\ninternational affairs. <\/p>\n

170
\n00:09:37,440 –> 00:09:39,640
\nAnd my, my father was also very
\ninterested in that. <\/p>\n

171
\n00:09:39,880 –> 00:09:45,080
\nBut this brother, the next door
\nneighbor was very made very good<\/p>\n

172
\n00:09:45,080 –> 00:09:48,040
\nuse of the opportunity to see
\nhow to explain to my father how <\/p>\n

173
\n00:09:48,360 –> 00:09:52,080
\nhow the scripture sort of rather
\na good focus for understanding <\/p>\n

174
\n00:09:52,080 –> 00:09:53,640
\ninternational developments and
\nso on. <\/p>\n

175
\n00:09:53,640 –> 00:09:57,080
\nSo that that was the vehicle
\nthrough through which my my <\/p>\n

176
\n00:09:57,080 –> 00:10:00,280
\nfather became interested.
\nAnd then my mother, that was as <\/p>\n

177
\n00:10:00,280 –> 00:10:02,600
\nI said, it was before they were
\nmarried, but my mother was <\/p>\n

178
\n00:10:02,840 –> 00:10:06,960
\nequally receptive.
\nAnd and so they were, they were <\/p>\n

179
\n00:10:06,960 –> 00:10:09,720
\nbaptized just just before their
\ntheir marriage. <\/p>\n

180
\n00:10:09,720 –> 00:10:13,800
\nSo, so my background is not
\nreally a traditional Christopher<\/p>\n

181
\n00:10:13,800 –> 00:10:16,560
\nbackground.
\nThis from a a background which <\/p>\n

182
\n00:10:16,560 –> 00:10:20,400
\nwould say came from from from
\nthe outside community. <\/p>\n

183
\n00:10:20,560 –> 00:10:24,840
\nYou said you had a sort of a
\nvibrant ecclesial life for a 12 <\/p>\n

184
\n00:10:24,840 –> 00:10:27,640
\nyear old, 14 year old, 16 year
\nold leading up to the age of <\/p>\n

185
\n00:10:27,640 –> 00:10:29,880
\nyour baptism.
\nWhat were some of the sort of <\/p>\n

186
\n00:10:29,880 –> 00:10:33,520
\nkey activities and important
\ninfluences for you? <\/p>\n

187
\n00:10:33,840 –> 00:10:36,640
\nWell, the, the two key things
\nthere I would say were the <\/p>\n

188
\n00:10:36,640 –> 00:10:39,280
\nsummer school and the, and the
\nyouth activities. <\/p>\n

189
\n00:10:40,400 –> 00:10:41,840
\nI think the summer school was
\nconcerned. <\/p>\n

190
\n00:10:41,840 –> 00:10:46,280
\nIt was a very, very well run
\ngrain disciplined Sunday school.<\/p>\n

191
\n00:10:46,280 –> 00:10:50,560
\nI had a lot of students, I can’t
\nremember now, a couple of 100. <\/p>\n

192
\n00:10:50,560 –> 00:10:52,440
\nIt was just a very, very big
\nSunday school. <\/p>\n

193
\n00:10:52,760 –> 00:10:56,480
\nBut uniquely, I guess for the
\ntime, it was very focused on <\/p>\n

194
\n00:10:56,480 –> 00:11:00,080
\nthe, on the written.
\nOh, we always seem to be sitting<\/p>\n

195
\n00:11:00,080 –> 00:11:02,440
\nfor written examinations on
\nsomething or other. <\/p>\n

196
\n00:11:02,880 –> 00:11:07,080
\nAnd so the discipline of
\npreparing for, for Sunday <\/p>\n

197
\n00:11:07,080 –> 00:11:10,760
\nschool, for preparing for these,
\nthese exams as soon to go on <\/p>\n

198
\n00:11:10,760 –> 00:11:13,200
\nforever.
\nAnd all that was a good <\/p>\n

199
\n00:11:14,040 –> 00:11:17,880
\ninfluence.
\nAnd the concurrent with that, of<\/p>\n

200
\n00:11:17,880 –> 00:11:22,160
\ncourse, was the, with the youth
\nactivities, because with a, with<\/p>\n

201
\n00:11:22,160 –> 00:11:26,320
\na, a bigger creature, there was
\na, a wide range of, of youth <\/p>\n

202
\n00:11:26,320 –> 00:11:31,880
\nactivities, spiritual, of
\ncourse, but also social and, and<\/p>\n

203
\n00:11:31,880 –> 00:11:35,160
\nthat was a wonderful foundation
\nfor growing up. <\/p>\n

204
\n00:11:35,600 –> 00:11:37,400
\nAnd also the mutual improvement
\nclasses. <\/p>\n

205
\n00:11:37,400 –> 00:11:39,840
\nThey even had a younger mutual
\nimprovement class with those who<\/p>\n

206
\n00:11:39,840 –> 00:11:43,000
\nare under 21.
\nSo the, the, the whole <\/p>\n

207
\n00:11:43,000 –> 00:11:45,000
\nenvironment was, I would say,
\ndisciplined. <\/p>\n

208
\n00:11:45,000 –> 00:11:49,840
\nIt was very Bible focused and
\nand it was also at the same time<\/p>\n

209
\n00:11:49,840 –> 00:11:53,320
\nvery enjoyable and, and
\nobviously I made friends there. <\/p>\n

210
\n00:11:53,360 –> 00:11:56,680
\nThere have been lifelong friends
\nsince I’ve come back for living <\/p>\n

211
\n00:11:56,680 –> 00:11:59,600
\nabroad for a long time.
\nJust catching up with old <\/p>\n

212
\n00:11:59,600 –> 00:12:03,560
\nfriends is just a real treasure.
\nAnd, and a lot of those <\/p>\n

213
\n00:12:04,160 –> 00:12:08,200
\nfriendships were made in in
\nyounger, very younger years. <\/p>\n

214
\n00:12:09,120 –> 00:12:13,040
\nSo all all together, the
\nupbringing was a was a huge <\/p>\n

215
\n00:12:13,160 –> 00:12:16,520
\nblessing and I thank the Lord
\ncontinuously for that. <\/p>\n

216
\n00:12:16,520 –> 00:12:18,120
\nWhat?
\nWere some of the activities you <\/p>\n

217
\n00:12:18,120 –> 00:12:21,280
\ngot involved with as a young
\nbrother after you were baptised?<\/p>\n

218
\n00:12:21,800 –> 00:12:24,720
\nWell, the mutual improvement
\nclass is one thing, of course, <\/p>\n

219
\n00:12:24,720 –> 00:12:28,040
\nthe and of course, giving him
\none or two of the ones first <\/p>\n

220
\n00:12:28,360 –> 00:12:31,800
\nclasses are sort of traumatic.
\nAnd I remember, I remember so <\/p>\n

221
\n00:12:31,800 –> 00:12:34,800
\nwell the very first time I had
\nto give a talk to a quite a <\/p>\n

222
\n00:12:34,800 –> 00:12:37,600
\nlarge gathering in the in the
\nexterior hall, and it was called<\/p>\n

223
\n00:12:37,600 –> 00:12:40,800
\nthe temple still is actually.
\nAnd and that led I’ll never <\/p>\n

224
\n00:12:40,800 –> 00:12:43,840
\nforget that the first occasion
\nwhen I had to give that my first<\/p>\n

225
\n00:12:44,120 –> 00:12:47,720
\ntalk to a big audience, I, I was
\na second on the speaking list <\/p>\n

226
\n00:12:47,720 –> 00:12:50,160
\nfor the for the evening.
\nAnd I thought I’d fall through <\/p>\n

227
\n00:12:50,160 –> 00:12:55,520
\nthe floor and eventually my, my
\ntime as the second speaker, I <\/p>\n

228
\n00:12:55,520 –> 00:12:58,240
\nwas on the platform.
\nAnd then halfway through, <\/p>\n

229
\n00:12:58,640 –> 00:13:01,560
\nhalfway through the, the talk
\nand my mind seemed to go <\/p>\n

230
\n00:13:01,560 –> 00:13:04,320
\ncomplete blank.
\nAnd there was a long pause. <\/p>\n

231
\n00:13:04,600 –> 00:13:08,360
\nAnd so, so after the talk, I
\nasked the one, some of the folks<\/p>\n

232
\n00:13:08,360 –> 00:13:11,320
\nthere and my family, what do you
\nthink of the long pause? <\/p>\n

233
\n00:13:12,200 –> 00:13:13,760
\nAnd they, they didn’t even
\nrecognise it. <\/p>\n

234
\n00:13:13,760 –> 00:13:17,200
\nSo I was so uptight on the
\noccasion. <\/p>\n

235
\n00:13:17,200 –> 00:13:20,200
\nI guess that’s that.
\nI was very sensitive to that. <\/p>\n

236
\n00:13:21,000 –> 00:13:25,680
\nBut yeah, they’re, they’re
\npreparing for classes, engaging <\/p>\n

237
\n00:13:25,680 –> 00:13:28,680
\nall sorts of occasional
\nactivities, helping. <\/p>\n

238
\n00:13:28,680 –> 00:13:31,880
\nAnd I was also the following my
\nfather’s footsteps. <\/p>\n

239
\n00:13:31,880 –> 00:13:34,360
\nI was the secondary of the
\nSunday school at quite a young <\/p>\n

240
\n00:13:34,360 –> 00:13:36,840
\nage.
\nThat was quite a responsibility,<\/p>\n

241
\n00:13:36,840 –> 00:13:40,200
\nalthough I didn’t do much else
\napart from move chairs around <\/p>\n

242
\n00:13:41,520 –> 00:13:45,120
\nthat it was all, all that was
\nintegrated and, and the, the <\/p>\n

243
\n00:13:45,120 –> 00:13:48,000
\nmain thing to say I suppose is
\nthe, the, the pleasure was just <\/p>\n

244
\n00:13:48,160 –> 00:13:51,360
\nthe centre of my life.
\nIt was just, it was the focus <\/p>\n

245
\n00:13:52,240 –> 00:13:56,560
\nand not odorous at all.
\nIt was extremely enjoyable and <\/p>\n

246
\n00:13:57,120 –> 00:13:59,800
\nand fulfilling and remembered
\nwith a lot of a lot of <\/p>\n

247
\n00:13:59,800 –> 00:14:02,280
\naffection.
\nThat is a blessing with your <\/p>\n

248
\n00:14:02,280 –> 00:14:06,320
\nparents and your your brother.
\nYou went on a an overseas trip, <\/p>\n

249
\n00:14:06,320 –> 00:14:09,760
\nwhich I imagine back then would
\nhave been on the race. <\/p>\n

250
\n00:14:09,760 –> 00:14:12,680
\nI mean, obviously people travel
\ninternationally regularly now, <\/p>\n

251
\n00:14:12,680 –> 00:14:15,800
\nbut back in what it was at the
\nearly 1950. <\/p>\n

252
\n00:14:15,920 –> 00:14:20,000
\nYeah, 1954 that, that was a
\nmajor event because my, my <\/p>\n

253
\n00:14:20,000 –> 00:14:24,200
\nfather very much wanted to go to
\nthe UK because of family links <\/p>\n

254
\n00:14:24,200 –> 00:14:26,640
\nthere.
\nAnd my mother said yes, we’ll go<\/p>\n

255
\n00:14:26,640 –> 00:14:29,440
\nover to the two boys and my
\nbrother and ourself come with <\/p>\n

256
\n00:14:29,440 –> 00:14:31,560
\nus.
\nSo we obviously we’re on my <\/p>\n

257
\n00:14:31,560 –> 00:14:35,720
\nmother’s side.
\nSo, so we, we joined the, the <\/p>\n

258
\n00:14:35,720 –> 00:14:41,400
\ntrip, the six month trip, but it
\nwas quite an it was quite a <\/p>\n

259
\n00:14:41,800 –> 00:14:45,320
\ndecision to make because oddly
\nenough, this might seem rather <\/p>\n

260
\n00:14:45,320 –> 00:14:49,800
\nstrange, I guess, but a key
\nfactor was that we had been <\/p>\n

261
\n00:14:49,800 –> 00:14:54,400
\nattending Sunday school without
\nany, any miss for 9 1\/2 years. <\/p>\n

262
\n00:14:54,760 –> 00:14:59,080
\nAnd to be a way to be a way
\nwould break the 10 year record. <\/p>\n

263
\n00:14:59,200 –> 00:15:03,760
\nWell, not record exactly, but 10
\nyear sort of milestone And, and <\/p>\n

264
\n00:15:03,760 –> 00:15:07,400
\nmy parents were, that might seem
\nsort of an old criteria, but <\/p>\n

265
\n00:15:07,400 –> 00:15:10,160
\nwe’re wondering whether we
\nshould wait until this <\/p>\n

266
\n00:15:11,000 –> 00:15:14,920
\ninteresting milestone of 10
\nyears without missing on any <\/p>\n

267
\n00:15:14,920 –> 00:15:19,280
\nSunday had been achieved.
\nAnyway, the, the, the fact of <\/p>\n

268
\n00:15:19,280 –> 00:15:23,560
\nthe matter is we did go on the
\ntrip in 1954 and it was a very, <\/p>\n

269
\n00:15:23,560 –> 00:15:28,880
\nit was a wonderful trip really.
\nWe, of course, we, those days <\/p>\n

270
\n00:15:28,880 –> 00:15:32,480
\nyou sailed to the UK, it took,
\nit took a month to get there in <\/p>\n

271
\n00:15:32,480 –> 00:15:36,680
\na month to come back again.
\nThat was a wonderful experience <\/p>\n

272
\n00:15:37,320 –> 00:15:40,520
\nthrough the, through the Red
\nSea, through the, through the <\/p>\n

273
\n00:15:40,520 –> 00:15:43,760
\nSuez Canal.
\nAnyway, the, the trip to the, to<\/p>\n

274
\n00:15:44,640 –> 00:15:46,560
\nthe UK was a wonderful
\nexperience. <\/p>\n

275
\n00:15:46,560 –> 00:15:50,240
\nAnd because again, the focus was
\npretty much on the also a large <\/p>\n

276
\n00:15:50,240 –> 00:15:52,760
\nextent was visiting better
\nassistance in various parts of <\/p>\n

277
\n00:15:52,760 –> 00:15:58,920
\nthe UK and also in Germany.
\nAnd we spent about 4-4 months, I<\/p>\n

278
\n00:15:58,920 –> 00:16:01,880
\nthink in the UK and, and Germany
\nand then came back, you know, <\/p>\n

279
\n00:16:01,880 –> 00:16:05,360
\nlater in the year.
\nSo, so all that was a great <\/p>\n

280
\n00:16:05,360 –> 00:16:09,960
\nexperience and, and also I
\nenjoyed on that trip both to and<\/p>\n

281
\n00:16:09,960 –> 00:16:12,800
\nfro having a couple of two or
\nthree days in India. <\/p>\n

282
\n00:16:12,800 –> 00:16:17,000
\nAnd that was a fascination for
\nme because I in India and, and <\/p>\n

283
\n00:16:17,000 –> 00:16:21,720
\nthe Indian subcontinent later in
\nlife became quite a focus of, of<\/p>\n

284
\n00:16:21,720 –> 00:16:24,640
\nmy activities, work activities
\nand. <\/p>\n

285
\n00:16:25,040 –> 00:16:26,840
\nIndeed.
\nI guess even travel. <\/p>\n

286
\n00:16:26,840 –> 00:16:28,320
\nI mean, people talk about a
\ntravel bug. <\/p>\n

287
\n00:16:28,400 –> 00:16:31,040
\nMaybe you got the travel bug in
\n1954? <\/p>\n

288
\n00:16:32,120 –> 00:16:35,680
\nWell, mentioning you made an
\ninteresting point about the the <\/p>\n

289
\n00:16:36,040 –> 00:16:38,200
\nsomewhat infrequency of
\ninternational travel. <\/p>\n

290
\n00:16:38,200 –> 00:16:40,920
\nThat’s I remember very well the
\nyear before we went which is <\/p>\n

291
\n00:16:40,920 –> 00:16:44,960
\n1933, brother Lindsay Cahoon and
\nbrother President who are very <\/p>\n

292
\n00:16:44,960 –> 00:16:47,480
\nwell known members of the
\nAtlantic Claser. <\/p>\n

293
\n00:16:47,720 –> 00:16:53,600
\nThey were given a farewell, a
\nfarewell this sort of evening <\/p>\n

294
\n00:16:53,600 –> 00:16:57,040
\nreally in the Atlantic Claser.
\nIt was very strongly supported. <\/p>\n

295
\n00:16:57,040 –> 00:17:00,560
\nThe hall was full.
\nIt was such a rare event and <\/p>\n

296
\n00:17:00,720 –> 00:17:03,520
\nboth at the end of the
\nprogramme, brother a person, <\/p>\n

297
\n00:17:03,520 –> 00:17:07,200
\nBrother Lindsay Given had to
\ngive a a talk to the audience <\/p>\n

298
\n00:17:07,200 –> 00:17:10,599
\nand they were completely wound
\nup, completely exercised about <\/p>\n

299
\n00:17:10,599 –> 00:17:13,680
\nthe same pain in truth and
\ndramatically. <\/p>\n

300
\n00:17:13,720 –> 00:17:16,720
\nAnd brother Lindsay given was
\ngiven to dramatic gestures. <\/p>\n

301
\n00:17:17,160 –> 00:17:23,200
\nHe, he unfurled all his, all his
\nstapled sea and air tickets and <\/p>\n

302
\n00:17:23,200 –> 00:17:27,040
\nall the rest stretched from one
\nside of the ball to the other <\/p>\n

303
\n00:17:27,560 –> 00:17:30,160
\nand there was unfurled with
\ngreat panache. <\/p>\n

304
\n00:17:31,040 –> 00:17:35,120
\nAnd the, and the audience is
\nsort of agog this extraordinary <\/p>\n

305
\n00:17:35,120 –> 00:17:39,240
\ntrip with all these flights and
\nsea voyages and who knows what. <\/p>\n

306
\n00:17:39,800 –> 00:17:41,840
\nBut it was just, I just
\nmentioned all that because it <\/p>\n

307
\n00:17:41,840 –> 00:17:48,640
\nreally was quite a not a rarity,
\nbut it was somewhat unusual to <\/p>\n

308
\n00:17:48,640 –> 00:17:51,960
\ntake a, a long, a long trip away
\nfrom Australia. <\/p>\n

309
\n00:17:52,760 –> 00:17:54,200
\nI didn’t work out what year you
\nwere born in. <\/p>\n

310
\n00:17:54,200 –> 00:17:56,880
\nHow old were you when you went
\non this trip in 1954? <\/p>\n

311
\n00:17:57,400 –> 00:18:00,560
\n18 years of age, right?
\nMy, my brother was just over a <\/p>\n

312
\n00:18:00,560 –> 00:18:04,600
\nyear old, older than myself.
\nSo, so it was a very, it was <\/p>\n

313
\n00:18:04,680 –> 00:18:07,640
\njust a wonderful trip at a very
\nformative Salomon. <\/p>\n

314
\n00:18:07,840 –> 00:18:10,080
\nWhat are some of your memories,
\nbecause you would have gone to <\/p>\n

315
\n00:18:10,200 –> 00:18:12,200
\ngo to lots of different
\necclesias and met lots of <\/p>\n

316
\n00:18:12,200 –> 00:18:15,680
\ndifferent brothers and sisters.
\nWas there an overwhelming sort <\/p>\n

317
\n00:18:15,680 –> 00:18:20,240
\nof insight or or realisation
\nfrom that trip with regard to <\/p>\n

318
\n00:18:20,600 –> 00:18:22,440
\nhow brothers and sisters lived
\nin other places? <\/p>\n

319
\n00:18:22,560 –> 00:18:27,600
\nOh, very, very much so, very
\nmuch so because they just seeing<\/p>\n

320
\n00:18:27,600 –> 00:18:30,120
\neclusion life was very
\ninteresting the the the number <\/p>\n

321
\n00:18:30,120 –> 00:18:32,080
\nof Eclesias there as you went
\nfrom town to town. <\/p>\n

322
\n00:18:32,080 –> 00:18:33,600
\nThere were so many Eclesias in
\nBritain. <\/p>\n

323
\n00:18:34,000 –> 00:18:38,240
\nI found that quite impressive.
\nThere was somewhat of a sadness <\/p>\n

324
\n00:18:38,240 –> 00:18:41,760
\nto it, of course, because at
\nthat time, at that time the, <\/p>\n

325
\n00:18:42,960 –> 00:18:46,640
\nthe, the reunion of the two
\ncommunities in the UK had not <\/p>\n

326
\n00:18:46,640 –> 00:18:50,440
\nbeen completed.
\nIt was completed just very <\/p>\n

327
\n00:18:50,440 –> 00:18:54,720
\nshortly after we were there.
\nBut it meant that unfortunately <\/p>\n

328
\n00:18:54,720 –> 00:18:58,400
\nat the time we couldn’t, we, we
\nwere in terms of fellowship, we <\/p>\n

329
\n00:18:58,400 –> 00:19:03,080
\nwere restricted to the substrate
\nfellowship when at that time we <\/p>\n

330
\n00:19:03,080 –> 00:19:05,360
\ndid not really have access to
\nthe central fellowship. <\/p>\n

331
\n00:19:07,520 –> 00:19:09,320
\nSometimes it’s best not to talk
\nabout these things. <\/p>\n

332
\n00:19:09,320 –> 00:19:13,520
\nBut on the other side, there’s a
\nbig plus factor because when <\/p>\n

333
\n00:19:13,520 –> 00:19:16,280
\nreunion of the two fellowships
\nwas accomplished in the mid <\/p>\n

334
\n00:19:16,280 –> 00:19:22,000
\n1950s in the UK, it was such a
\nsuch a huge development. <\/p>\n

335
\n00:19:22,000 –> 00:19:25,680
\nSo this disappointment we had
\nand sort of not having <\/p>\n

336
\n00:19:26,480 –> 00:19:29,200
\ncompletely free access to quite
\na large part of the brotherhood <\/p>\n

337
\n00:19:29,200 –> 00:19:34,680
\nin the UK, all that was that
\ndivision of anticipated really <\/p>\n

338
\n00:19:34,680 –> 00:19:40,800
\nwith the, with the realisation
\nof reunion in the mid 1950s. <\/p>\n

339
\n00:19:40,800 –> 00:19:44,440
\nSo, and we also stayed just one
\nother part. <\/p>\n

340
\n00:19:44,440 –> 00:19:49,320
\nWe stayed, we’ve got our sister
\nCyril Cooper in London for many,<\/p>\n

341
\n00:19:49,320 –> 00:19:53,360
\nmany weeks there.
\nAnd that was extremely <\/p>\n

342
\n00:19:53,360 –> 00:19:55,240
\nhospitable.
\nAnd they, they were, they were <\/p>\n

343
\n00:19:55,280 –> 00:19:57,960
\nquite well unknown.
\nAnd so they gave us wonderful <\/p>\n

344
\n00:19:57,960 –> 00:20:03,760
\naccess to, to, to Cledus, you
\nknow, throughout, throughout <\/p>\n

345
\n00:20:03,760 –> 00:20:05,720
\nBritain.
\nTo put it in the most general <\/p>\n

346
\n00:20:05,720 –> 00:20:10,240
\nterms, it was, it was another
\nexhilarating experience, the <\/p>\n

347
\n00:20:10,240 –> 00:20:14,040
\nspiritual experience, which we
\nit’s exhausting. <\/p>\n

348
\n00:20:14,080 –> 00:20:15,520
\nWe we’re seeing it travel
\neverywhere. <\/p>\n

349
\n00:20:15,520 –> 00:20:18,720
\nWe even drove down to Rome and
\nback. <\/p>\n

350
\n00:20:18,720 –> 00:20:22,040
\nI don’t know how we managed it.
\nIt was quite an exhausting <\/p>\n

351
\n00:20:23,120 –> 00:20:28,400
\nprogram in a way, but but it’s
\ncertainly memorable. <\/p>\n

352
\n00:20:29,320 –> 00:20:30,920
\nI’m interested in your
\nstatements about fellowship <\/p>\n

353
\n00:20:30,960 –> 00:20:33,640
\nbecause it’s when you’ve got it,
\nit’s not something you <\/p>\n

354
\n00:20:33,640 –> 00:20:35,480
\nappreciate because you’ve always
\nhad it. <\/p>\n

355
\n00:20:35,480 –> 00:20:39,520
\nAnd in Australia, largely
\nspeaking, we’ve had the the <\/p>\n

356
\n00:20:39,520 –> 00:20:42,040
\nbenefit of the work that was
\ndone in the 1950s. <\/p>\n

357
\n00:20:42,520 –> 00:20:44,480
\nAnd for something someone like
\nmyself just a little bit <\/p>\n

358
\n00:20:44,480 –> 00:20:48,120
\nyounger, have really never had
\nthe experience of not having <\/p>\n

359
\n00:20:48,120 –> 00:20:50,560
\nthat.
\nSo I think that’s really <\/p>\n

360
\n00:20:50,560 –> 00:20:52,920
\ninteresting to hear you make
\nthat statement and it obviously <\/p>\n

361
\n00:20:52,920 –> 00:20:54,880
\nhad an effect on you.
\nWell, it had a big effect. <\/p>\n

362
\n00:20:54,880 –> 00:20:57,120
\nParticularly it’s some of the
\nwell known speakers like <\/p>\n

363
\n00:20:57,200 –> 00:20:59,920
\nbrothers John Carter and those
\nare, there’s some of the really <\/p>\n

364
\n00:20:59,920 –> 00:21:03,400
\nwell known speakers at the time,
\nbut we, we did not really have <\/p>\n

365
\n00:21:03,400 –> 00:21:08,240
\nfull access to and that was
\ndisappointing Brother Norris. <\/p>\n

366
\n00:21:08,240 –> 00:21:11,880
\nSo you can think of a lot of
\nother Whitaker and many others <\/p>\n

367
\n00:21:12,240 –> 00:21:15,640
\nwho, who are very, very capable
\nspeakers and exceptional Bible <\/p>\n

368
\n00:21:15,640 –> 00:21:18,600
\nscholars.
\nAnd in many ways it meant that <\/p>\n

369
\n00:21:18,600 –> 00:21:21,320
\nwe didn’t have full access to
\nthem. <\/p>\n

370
\n00:21:21,680 –> 00:21:24,200
\nOf course, we went to a few of
\nthe Bible classes and lectures <\/p>\n

371
\n00:21:24,200 –> 00:21:27,440
\nand so on.
\nBut it was just, it was, there’s<\/p>\n

372
\n00:21:27,440 –> 00:21:33,000
\nan awkwardness about it, which
\nwas there at the time, but that <\/p>\n

373
\n00:21:33,000 –> 00:21:36,280
\nthat’s why throughout life I’ve
\nalways had a strong feeling that<\/p>\n

374
\n00:21:36,280 –> 00:21:39,240
\nwe should press the unity as
\nmuch as possible as long as of <\/p>\n

375
\n00:21:39,240 –> 00:21:41,200
\ncourse, it’s on good scriptural
\nfoundations. <\/p>\n

376
\n00:21:41,200 –> 00:21:46,360
\nBut but the, the, the the
\ndisadvantages of of <\/p>\n

377
\n00:21:46,360 –> 00:21:55,440
\ndisfellowship, I think are quite
\nacute and and every effort I <\/p>\n

378
\n00:21:55,440 –> 00:21:58,960
\nthink should be made to try and
\nhave a unified brotherhood. <\/p>\n

379
\n00:22:00,120 –> 00:22:02,400
\nSo much we all, we all obviously
\nbenefit. <\/p>\n

380
\n00:22:03,160 –> 00:22:07,600
\nAround this time you were
\ndeciding on what career choice <\/p>\n

381
\n00:22:07,600 –> 00:22:09,280
\nto make.
\nWhat were some of your early <\/p>\n

382
\n00:22:09,280 –> 00:22:10,400
\nthoughts and where did you end
\nup? <\/p>\n

383
\n00:22:10,480 –> 00:22:16,040
\nWell, when I finished schooling,
\nI didn’t have much idea what <\/p>\n

384
\n00:22:16,040 –> 00:22:17,920
\nwhat I was going to do.
\nI didn’t have any particular <\/p>\n

385
\n00:22:17,920 –> 00:22:20,800
\nsort of preference or idea what
\nI would do. <\/p>\n

386
\n00:22:20,800 –> 00:22:24,800
\nSo my, my father was actually in
\nthe insurance business. <\/p>\n

387
\n00:22:25,800 –> 00:22:29,720
\nSo he, he, he arranged an
\nappointment for me in the, in <\/p>\n

388
\n00:22:29,720 –> 00:22:32,840
\nthe, in the AMP, which is a life
\ninsurance company in Australia. <\/p>\n

389
\n00:22:33,520 –> 00:22:39,680
\nAnd his, my father’s main
\nconcern was that I take a <\/p>\n

390
\n00:22:39,680 –> 00:22:43,280
\nposition which would not involve
\nin any social engagements, which<\/p>\n

391
\n00:22:43,280 –> 00:22:45,760
\nwould sort of be discouraging
\nspiritually. <\/p>\n

392
\n00:22:45,760 –> 00:22:50,720
\nSo, so my first position for,
\nfor my viewers was actually with<\/p>\n

393
\n00:22:50,720 –> 00:22:55,600
\nthe AMP Society, but which, you
\nknow, which was a very <\/p>\n

394
\n00:22:55,600 –> 00:22:59,320
\ninteresting organization, but
\nthere’s no career opportunities <\/p>\n

395
\n00:22:59,320 –> 00:23:02,240
\nthere at all.
\nYou, you just clearly would be a<\/p>\n

396
\n00:23:03,400 –> 00:23:05,120
\nsort of static career.
\nNothing would happen. <\/p>\n

397
\n00:23:05,560 –> 00:23:09,320
\nSo I’m not weary of that.
\nSo eventually I, I remember that<\/p>\n

398
\n00:23:09,320 –> 00:23:12,040
\nI had a common scholarship which
\nI should have taken advantage <\/p>\n

399
\n00:23:12,040 –> 00:23:13,720
\nof.
\nSo I went to, back to, I went to<\/p>\n

400
\n00:23:13,720 –> 00:23:17,440
\nuniversity for, took a degree in
\neconomics and then. <\/p>\n

401
\n00:23:19,040 –> 00:23:21,480
\nWhy economics?
\nWell, that was it was by <\/p>\n

402
\n00:23:21,480 –> 00:23:23,720
\ndefault, actually.
\nI wasn’t. <\/p>\n

403
\n00:23:24,240 –> 00:23:30,520
\nMedicine wasn’t quite my thing.
\nEngineering was not my thing. <\/p>\n

404
\n00:23:31,040 –> 00:23:34,720
\nIt was almost ruling out the
\nothers. <\/p>\n

405
\n00:23:35,440 –> 00:23:37,400
\nYeah, right.
\nAnd it turned out to be <\/p>\n

406
\n00:23:38,440 –> 00:23:43,320
\nGod-given choice because it
\nopened up business of employment<\/p>\n

407
\n00:23:43,320 –> 00:23:47,120
\nwhich later became very, very
\nhelpful many particularly in <\/p>\n

408
\n00:23:47,120 –> 00:23:50,080
\nterms of missionary activities
\nand so on. <\/p>\n

409
\n00:23:50,080 –> 00:23:55,400
\nSo, so anyway, I, I left when I
\nfinished university after four <\/p>\n

410
\n00:23:55,400 –> 00:24:01,120
\nyears there at the other
\nuniversity in economics, I, I <\/p>\n

411
\n00:24:01,120 –> 00:24:03,760
\nhad to leave Adelaide because
\nthe degree in macroeconomics, <\/p>\n

412
\n00:24:03,760 –> 00:24:06,600
\nyou really, there was no career
\nin Adelaide at all. <\/p>\n

413
\n00:24:06,800 –> 00:24:09,640
\nSo you either had to go to
\nSydney, Melbourne or, or <\/p>\n

414
\n00:24:09,640 –> 00:24:14,520
\nCanberra.
\nAnd so I took a a position, I <\/p>\n

415
\n00:24:14,520 –> 00:24:16,640
\nwas offered a position in the
\nReserve Bank of Australia which <\/p>\n

416
\n00:24:16,800 –> 00:24:21,160
\nwere just then being established
\nas the Central Bank of <\/p>\n

417
\n00:24:21,160 –> 00:24:23,160
\nAustralia.
\nGive me that was a God direction<\/p>\n

418
\n00:24:23,280 –> 00:24:25,720
\ndecision, certainly.
\nSo you were one of the, well, <\/p>\n

419
\n00:24:25,720 –> 00:24:28,560
\nnot the first employees, but you
\nmoved to the Reserve Bank of <\/p>\n

420
\n00:24:28,560 –> 00:24:30,720
\nAustralia, right?
\nAnd its inception which and I <\/p>\n

421
\n00:24:30,720 –> 00:24:33,400
\nI’ve just assumed it’s always
\nexisted, but that’s of course <\/p>\n

422
\n00:24:33,400 –> 00:24:35,920
\nnot the case.
\nWell, I I should clarify that <\/p>\n

423
\n00:24:36,600 –> 00:24:40,120
\nthe central bank functions were
\nwere previously under the, under<\/p>\n

424
\n00:24:40,200 –> 00:24:42,800
\nthe umbrella of the Commonwealth
\nBank, the Commonwealth Bank. <\/p>\n

425
\n00:24:43,360 –> 00:24:45,840
\nWhich was which was then owned
\nby the federal government. <\/p>\n

426
\n00:24:45,920 –> 00:24:47,640
\nYes, that’s right.
\nThe Commonwealth Bank was had <\/p>\n

427
\n00:24:47,920 –> 00:24:50,240
\ntwo functions, a trading
\nfunction and the central bank <\/p>\n

428
\n00:24:50,240 –> 00:24:53,040
\nfunction.
\nIn in the early 60’s the the <\/p>\n

429
\n00:24:53,120 –> 00:24:55,360
\ncentral bank functions were
\ntaken out of the Commonwealth <\/p>\n

430
\n00:24:55,360 –> 00:24:59,640
\nBank of Australia and became
\nthe, the, the, the Reserve Bank <\/p>\n

431
\n00:24:59,640 –> 00:25:01,200
\nof Australia, which of course it
\nis now. <\/p>\n

432
\n00:25:01,600 –> 00:25:05,040
\nSo so I, I joined, I joined the
\nReserve Bank just after they had<\/p>\n

433
\n00:25:05,440 –> 00:25:10,520
\nkept just after it had opted out
\nfrom the Commonwealth Bank and <\/p>\n

434
\n00:25:10,520 –> 00:25:13,440
\nbecome a became a separate, a
\nseparate entity. <\/p>\n

435
\n00:25:13,640 –> 00:25:17,200
\nBut the, but the, the, the plan
\nof the Reserve Bank was <\/p>\n

436
\n00:25:18,200 –> 00:25:23,600
\nparticularly a God director
\nbecause it’s, it gave me a, it, <\/p>\n

437
\n00:25:23,600 –> 00:25:27,720
\nit LED into other avenues of my
\nemployment which were very <\/p>\n

438
\n00:25:27,720 –> 00:25:31,120
\nbeneficial to me spiritually and
\nin terms of mission <\/p>\n

439
\n00:25:31,120 –> 00:25:33,520
\nopportunities.
\nSo the the the time at the <\/p>\n

440
\n00:25:33,520 –> 00:25:39,800
\nReserve Bank was was
\nparticularly helpful and and <\/p>\n

441
\n00:25:39,800 –> 00:25:42,560
\nenjoyable too.
\nYou were a young brother and <\/p>\n

442
\n00:25:42,680 –> 00:25:44,840
\nyou’re moving state.
\nYou had to move from Adelaide to<\/p>\n

443
\n00:25:44,840 –> 00:25:49,000
\nSydney, so life in Sydney would
\nhave been a whole new experience<\/p>\n

444
\n00:25:49,000 –> 00:25:50,680
\nfor you.
\nWell, it was actually. <\/p>\n

445
\n00:25:51,240 –> 00:25:55,200
\nAnd I, I enjoyed it because when
\nI went to Sydney, Sydney’s <\/p>\n

446
\n00:25:55,200 –> 00:26:00,840
\nalways an exciting city.
\nIt’s, but I, I decided when I <\/p>\n

447
\n00:26:00,840 –> 00:26:04,720
\nwent to Sydney Ecclesia, I, I
\nwould join a small ecclesia <\/p>\n

448
\n00:26:04,720 –> 00:26:07,160
\nbecause in that light, I’d
\nalways been a member of a very <\/p>\n

449
\n00:26:07,160 –> 00:26:09,560
\nbig ecclesia as I, as I
\nmentioned that. <\/p>\n

450
\n00:26:09,560 –> 00:26:14,000
\nSo I joined the, the ecclesia
\nwhich is, which was called the <\/p>\n

451
\n00:26:14,000 –> 00:26:15,960
\nBurwood ecclesia.
\nIt was called Little Burwood <\/p>\n

452
\n00:26:15,960 –> 00:26:19,520
\nactually, because it was very
\nclose to another much larger <\/p>\n

453
\n00:26:19,520 –> 00:26:20,920
\nEclasia, the Shasta Rd.
\nEclasia. <\/p>\n

454
\n00:26:20,960 –> 00:26:25,840
\nAnd I joined this bird Eclasia,
\nwhich were mainly comprised <\/p>\n

455
\n00:26:25,840 –> 00:26:28,040
\nweather and sisters who’d come
\nout of the Concorde Fellowship, <\/p>\n

456
\n00:26:28,040 –> 00:26:32,040
\nwhich was which had, which had
\npreviously been in the Old Pass <\/p>\n

457
\n00:26:32,040 –> 00:26:34,280
\nFellowship, but now had just
\njoined the Central Fellowship. <\/p>\n

458
\n00:26:34,280 –> 00:26:36,880
\nSo.
\nSo it was very nice joining a <\/p>\n

459
\n00:26:36,880 –> 00:26:40,320
\nsmall meeting of enthusiastic
\nweather and citizens who just <\/p>\n

460
\n00:26:40,480 –> 00:26:44,080
\nappreciated the, the benefits of
\ncoming over to the bigger <\/p>\n

461
\n00:26:44,080 –> 00:26:50,160
\nCentral Fellowship in Australia.
\nSo the time at the, at the, at <\/p>\n

462
\n00:26:51,640 –> 00:26:53,400
\nthe moment eclosure was very,
\nvery nice. <\/p>\n

463
\n00:26:53,520 –> 00:26:56,280
\nAnd of course, living in Sydney
\nand working in the Reserve Bank,<\/p>\n

464
\n00:26:56,280 –> 00:27:01,200
\nI found the whole that the whole
\nexperience are very, very <\/p>\n

465
\n00:27:02,040 –> 00:27:05,040
\ninteresting and uplifting.
\nI was only in the Reserve Bank <\/p>\n

466
\n00:27:05,040 –> 00:27:07,920
\nwith two or three years and they
\nasked me whether I’d be <\/p>\n

467
\n00:27:07,920 –> 00:27:10,720
\ninterested in doing exchange
\nwith the Reserve Bank of India <\/p>\n

468
\n00:27:11,560 –> 00:27:15,880
\nduring a study of the short term
\nmoney market and in Bombay and <\/p>\n

469
\n00:27:15,880 –> 00:27:20,120
\nin other parts of India.
\nSo that was, that was a <\/p>\n

470
\n00:27:20,120 –> 00:27:21,680
\nwonderful opportunity really
\ntoo. <\/p>\n

471
\n00:27:21,680 –> 00:27:27,240
\nSo I, I seized that opportunity
\nof spending quite a few months <\/p>\n

472
\n00:27:27,240 –> 00:27:30,920
\nin India working at the Reserve
\nBank of India in, in Bombay. <\/p>\n

473
\n00:27:30,920 –> 00:27:35,520
\nAnd that, that again was
\ntriggered by the employment of <\/p>\n

474
\n00:27:35,520 –> 00:27:37,920
\nthe Reserve Bank of Australia
\nbecause they arranged it all and<\/p>\n

475
\n00:27:38,400 –> 00:27:42,520
\nencouraged it.
\nAnd and it it’s sort of <\/p>\n

476
\n00:27:42,520 –> 00:27:46,560
\ngenerally sort of was the seed
\nof my later interest in <\/p>\n

477
\n00:27:46,560 –> 00:27:50,240
\nmissionary activities that three
\nor four months I had in India <\/p>\n

478
\n00:27:51,280 –> 00:27:58,560
\nwas, was very important in terms
\nof enthusing me for submission <\/p>\n

479
\n00:27:58,680 –> 00:28:02,440
\nactivities.
\nSo on return to Sydney, I note <\/p>\n

480
\n00:28:02,440 –> 00:28:07,760
\nthat the Reserve Bank at that
\ntime moved to a building on in <\/p>\n

481
\n00:28:07,760 –> 00:28:09,040
\nMartin Place.
\nYes. <\/p>\n

482
\n00:28:09,600 –> 00:28:12,520
\nAnd in your book, I chuckled
\nwhen I read, you watched the <\/p>\n

483
\n00:28:12,520 –> 00:28:14,200
\nconstruction of the Sydney Opera
\nHouse. <\/p>\n

484
\n00:28:14,200 –> 00:28:16,800
\nYes, as the iconic structure
\ngradually took shape. <\/p>\n

485
\n00:28:16,920 –> 00:28:19,800
\nWhat an extraordinary memory.
\nWell, there was the Reserve Bank<\/p>\n

486
\n00:28:19,800 –> 00:28:21,600
\nwas a lovely new building.
\nIt was just being built. <\/p>\n

487
\n00:28:21,600 –> 00:28:23,720
\nOf course, it was a new, new
\ninstitution. <\/p>\n

488
\n00:28:23,720 –> 00:28:26,120
\nIt was a lovely building on the
\ncorner of Macquarie St. and <\/p>\n

489
\n00:28:26,120 –> 00:28:28,280
\nMountain Place.
\nAnd I had a lovely office. <\/p>\n

490
\n00:28:28,280 –> 00:28:30,320
\nThey really just on the 15th
\nfloor. <\/p>\n

491
\n00:28:30,320 –> 00:28:32,360
\nI think it was looking out
\nacross the Sydney Harbour. <\/p>\n

492
\n00:28:32,360 –> 00:28:35,200
\nIt was just gorgeous.
\nYou have to be, you had to be <\/p>\n

493
\n00:28:35,200 –> 00:28:38,760
\ndistracted from your work, look
\nout and look at the beauty of <\/p>\n

494
\n00:28:38,760 –> 00:28:41,760
\nthe of the harbour.
\nBut they’re way in the distance <\/p>\n

495
\n00:28:41,760 –> 00:28:44,800
\nyou can see the Sydney Opera
\nHouse gradually being, being <\/p>\n

496
\n00:28:44,800 –> 00:28:48,160
\nbuilt.
\nYeah, Sydney’s always been a <\/p>\n

497
\n00:28:48,160 –> 00:28:51,320
\nspecial place for me.
\nI, I enjoy the collision. <\/p>\n

498
\n00:28:51,640 –> 00:28:54,880
\nI know it’s frustrating traffic
\nwise, I know all the problems <\/p>\n

499
\n00:28:54,880 –> 00:28:57,280
\nwith Sydney.
\nBut the time I had there, the 10<\/p>\n

500
\n00:28:57,280 –> 00:29:00,200
\nyears I had living in Sydney, I,
\nI very much enjoyed them. <\/p>\n

501
\n00:29:01,600 –> 00:29:07,680
\nBut then then career wise, the
\nthe Reserve Bank, it was very <\/p>\n

502
\n00:29:07,680 –> 00:29:11,560
\ngenerous in, in providing
\nscholarships or financial <\/p>\n

503
\n00:29:11,560 –> 00:29:14,360
\narrangements where you could,
\nwhere you could take a year <\/p>\n

504
\n00:29:14,360 –> 00:29:19,160
\nafter to further your studies to
\ndo graduate studies in <\/p>\n

505
\n00:29:19,160 –> 00:29:21,800
\neconomics.
\nThe typical thing for the <\/p>\n

506
\n00:29:22,000 –> 00:29:24,160
\nReserve Bank was to send you
\ndown to the Canberra, to the <\/p>\n

507
\n00:29:24,160 –> 00:29:27,480
\nAustralian National University
\nin Canberra to, to do some <\/p>\n

508
\n00:29:27,480 –> 00:29:29,560
\nstudies.
\nThere were, I didn’t want to do <\/p>\n

509
\n00:29:29,560 –> 00:29:32,400
\nthat too much because it was
\nall, it was just sitting in a <\/p>\n

510
\n00:29:32,400 –> 00:29:36,600
\ncorner writing a thesis on some,
\nsome, some subject or other. <\/p>\n

511
\n00:29:36,880 –> 00:29:42,920
\nI really wanted to, to have more
\ntraining in, in, in theoretical <\/p>\n

512
\n00:29:42,920 –> 00:29:45,800
\neconomics where you’re taught,
\nyou’re in classes, you know, <\/p>\n

513
\n00:29:45,800 –> 00:29:50,240
\nwe’re taught.
\nAnd so the, the only prospect of<\/p>\n

514
\n00:29:50,240 –> 00:29:53,520
\nthat, well, there’s no prospect
\nof that in Australia at all. <\/p>\n

515
\n00:29:54,160 –> 00:29:56,960
\nSo the bank, which surprised me,
\nsaid to me, why don’t we can, <\/p>\n

516
\n00:29:56,960 –> 00:30:00,640
\nwhy don’t we send you abroad and
\ndo that sort of study abroad. <\/p>\n

517
\n00:30:00,640 –> 00:30:04,280
\nSo I thought that was an
\nextraordinary offer which I, I <\/p>\n

518
\n00:30:04,280 –> 00:30:09,680
\ntook up and that led to the time
\nI had the Yale University in <\/p>\n

519
\n00:30:09,680 –> 00:30:13,800
\nthe, in the US, which was fully
\nlooked after and financed by <\/p>\n

520
\n00:30:13,800 –> 00:30:17,840
\nthe, by the Reserve Bank.
\nSo, so the Reserve Bank was a <\/p>\n

521
\n00:30:18,880 –> 00:30:23,600
\nwas a wonderful help to me and
\nin moving forward. <\/p>\n

522
\n00:30:23,720 –> 00:30:26,320
\nIt’s great to see investment in
\nyoung people in their <\/p>\n

523
\n00:30:26,320 –> 00:30:28,720
\ndevelopment, like that’s quite
\ninspirational. <\/p>\n

524
\n00:30:29,760 –> 00:30:32,960
\nI think in between sort of that
\ntime, correct me if I’m wrong, <\/p>\n

525
\n00:30:32,960 –> 00:30:37,320
\nbut you out of you took some
\ntime off and went to, well, <\/p>\n

526
\n00:30:37,320 –> 00:30:40,600
\nBritain and the Holy Land just
\nas a young man, is that right? <\/p>\n

527
\n00:30:40,600 –> 00:30:42,800
\nSo that was in your early days
\nat the Reserve Bank? <\/p>\n

528
\n00:30:43,280 –> 00:30:44,920
\nYeah, that’s right.
\nI should have mentioned that <\/p>\n

529
\n00:30:44,920 –> 00:30:47,440
\nthat that’s jumping.
\nThat’s before I I went to the <\/p>\n

530
\n00:30:47,440 –> 00:30:50,800
\nUnited States.
\nThe Reserve Bank had another <\/p>\n

531
\n00:30:50,800 –> 00:30:53,160
\nscheme.
\nThat’s just a wonderful <\/p>\n

532
\n00:30:53,160 –> 00:30:55,160
\ninstitution.
\nIt still is. <\/p>\n

533
\n00:30:55,160 –> 00:30:57,640
\nI respect the Reserve Bank a
\nlot, but they had another <\/p>\n

534
\n00:30:57,640 –> 00:31:01,400
\narrangement that if you wanted
\nto take 6 to 9 months to travel <\/p>\n

535
\n00:31:01,400 –> 00:31:07,040
\nabroad, they would encourage
\nthat and they would arrange for <\/p>\n

536
\n00:31:07,040 –> 00:31:10,560
\nyou to work in the Reserve
\nBank’s office in London, their <\/p>\n

537
\n00:31:10,560 –> 00:31:15,120
\nbranch in London.
\nSo I, I learned of that and I <\/p>\n

538
\n00:31:15,120 –> 00:31:18,520
\nthought that’d be wonderful
\nreally to, and that this <\/p>\n

539
\n00:31:18,520 –> 00:31:23,800
\npreceded the, this preceded the,
\nthe university in 20. <\/p>\n

540
\n00:31:24,720 –> 00:31:29,040
\nSo I, I jumped at that
\nopportunity and, and went across<\/p>\n

541
\n00:31:29,040 –> 00:31:31,840
\nto the UK and worked in the
\nReserve Bank, obviously in <\/p>\n

542
\n00:31:31,840 –> 00:31:36,560
\nLondon.
\nAnd because they gave me just a <\/p>\n

543
\n00:31:37,960 –> 00:31:40,880
\nwonderful opportunity to get to
\nknow the many brother and <\/p>\n

544
\n00:31:40,880 –> 00:31:42,480
\nsisters and the clashes in the
\nUK. <\/p>\n

545
\n00:31:42,640 –> 00:31:47,200
\nAnd at that time, because the
\nreunion had been accomplished <\/p>\n

546
\n00:31:47,200 –> 00:31:51,840
\nand, and I had the full benefit
\nof, of, of the wider fellowship.<\/p>\n

547
\n00:31:51,840 –> 00:31:56,400
\nAnd that was a that was that six
\nmonths was absolutely wonderful.<\/p>\n

548
\n00:31:56,960 –> 00:32:00,400
\nThe work was not onerous at all.
\nAnd the London officer was there<\/p>\n

549
\n00:32:00,400 –> 00:32:05,720
\nback and I because I went to all
\nthe study weekends and heard all<\/p>\n

550
\n00:32:05,720 –> 00:32:08,760
\nthe well known speakers and
\nOxford Conference, all the rest <\/p>\n

551
\n00:32:08,760 –> 00:32:12,120
\nof them and made full use of the
\nopportunity to to visit them. <\/p>\n

552
\n00:32:12,600 –> 00:32:15,720
\nThe creatures in the UK and and
\nthe brothers and sisters were <\/p>\n

553
\n00:32:16,240 –> 00:32:21,480
\nso, so welcoming.
\nAnd so I made many, many friends<\/p>\n

554
\n00:32:23,440 –> 00:32:28,800
\nwith the folks there and and for
\na younger brother, that was <\/p>\n

555
\n00:32:29,440 –> 00:32:33,760
\nagain, a great spiritual
\nexperience. <\/p>\n

556
\n00:32:35,200 –> 00:32:37,560
\nAnd you took the opportunity to
\ngo to the Holy Land. <\/p>\n

557
\n00:32:37,760 –> 00:32:40,120
\nThis got my interest in
\nparticular because I’ve, I’ve <\/p>\n

558
\n00:32:40,320 –> 00:32:42,480
\nbeen there a few times myself
\nand have quite an interest in <\/p>\n

559
\n00:32:42,480 –> 00:32:43,840
\nit.
\nOf course we’ll get on to it, <\/p>\n

560
\n00:32:43,840 –> 00:32:45,520
\nbut you ended up going there
\nmany times. <\/p>\n

561
\n00:32:45,520 –> 00:32:52,320
\nBut this is 1965 S pre Six Day
\nWar, and when I’ve been to <\/p>\n

562
\n00:32:52,320 –> 00:32:55,880
\nparticularly Jerusalem, probably
\nmore so than other places, I I <\/p>\n

563
\n00:32:55,920 –> 00:32:58,560
\nalways kind of wish I hadn’t
\nbeen able to go there before it <\/p>\n

564
\n00:32:58,560 –> 00:33:00,400
\nbecame such a big sprawling
\ncity. <\/p>\n

565
\n00:33:01,440 –> 00:33:03,640
\nIt must have been amazing back
\nin 1965. <\/p>\n

566
\n00:33:04,440 –> 00:33:08,280
\nWell, it was really because that
\nwas just, yes, it was, that was <\/p>\n

567
\n00:33:08,280 –> 00:33:11,200
\nbefore the the war, of course.
\nAnd it meant when you went <\/p>\n

568
\n00:33:11,200 –> 00:33:14,560
\nthrough to Israel, you didn’t
\nhave access to East Jerusalem. <\/p>\n

569
\n00:33:15,120 –> 00:33:18,560
\nAll you, all you could do is to
\nso sort of viewpoint you could <\/p>\n

570
\n00:33:18,560 –> 00:33:21,000
\nlook across to the Mount of
\nOlives where you, you didn’t <\/p>\n

571
\n00:33:21,000 –> 00:33:24,200
\nhave access to the Old City of
\nJerusalem or going up the Mount <\/p>\n

572
\n00:33:24,200 –> 00:33:27,520
\nof Olives or walking through a
\nGhana, Gethsemane and so on. <\/p>\n

573
\n00:33:27,520 –> 00:33:30,520
\nSo it was a much smaller country
\nacross then. <\/p>\n

574
\n00:33:31,440 –> 00:33:33,600
\nYeah, that was on the way back
\nfrom from London. <\/p>\n

575
\n00:33:34,640 –> 00:33:38,040
\nI spent about a couple of weeks,
\nI think it was in, in Israel at <\/p>\n

576
\n00:33:38,040 –> 00:33:41,080
\nthat time.
\nAnd I travelled, you know, from <\/p>\n

577
\n00:33:41,080 –> 00:33:44,040
\na lot right up to Galilee maybe
\nfour years ago. <\/p>\n

578
\n00:33:44,040 –> 00:33:46,600
\nBut it was very different in
\nlater years when I went back to <\/p>\n

579
\n00:33:46,600 –> 00:33:49,240
\nIsrael for work.
\nLater years when I, you know, <\/p>\n

580
\n00:33:49,240 –> 00:33:53,120
\nwhen the country of course was
\nmuch larger and you had access, <\/p>\n

581
\n00:33:53,120 –> 00:33:58,200
\nyou had access to the Mount of
\nOlives, to the, to the area <\/p>\n

582
\n00:33:58,200 –> 00:34:02,120
\nacross to the Jordan and so on.
\nThat, that, that visit I very <\/p>\n

583
\n00:34:02,120 –> 00:34:03,840
\nmuch show.
\nAnd from, from Israel I went <\/p>\n

584
\n00:34:03,840 –> 00:34:07,880
\ndown into Africa.
\nI went down to Nairobi and then <\/p>\n

585
\n00:34:07,880 –> 00:34:11,280
\nstopped for about quite a few
\ndays of Mauritius where there <\/p>\n

586
\n00:34:11,280 –> 00:34:16,320
\nwas a new mission programme just
\ndeveloping and that was, it was <\/p>\n

587
\n00:34:16,320 –> 00:34:19,560
\na, it was a great trip back
\nactually from the UK through <\/p>\n

588
\n00:34:19,560 –> 00:34:22,800
\nIsrael, down through Africa,
\ninto Russia and back to <\/p>\n

589
\n00:34:22,800 –> 00:34:26,360
\nAustralia.
\nSo I made full use of the of the<\/p>\n

590
\n00:34:26,760 –> 00:34:28,480
\ntravelling opportunity.
\nWell, you certainly did. <\/p>\n

591
\n00:34:28,480 –> 00:34:32,440
\nYou were certainly you had a
\nlevel of curiosity and interest <\/p>\n

592
\n00:34:32,440 –> 00:34:34,960
\nin in travel, no doubt as a as a
\nyoung brother. <\/p>\n

593
\n00:34:35,080 –> 00:34:37,639
\nWell, I, I also on that trip
\nbecause I always made a point of<\/p>\n

594
\n00:34:38,400 –> 00:34:42,440
\nbeing in touch with the brothers
\nand sisters in and Tebby when in<\/p>\n

595
\n00:34:42,440 –> 00:34:46,719
\nUganda, I stayed with brothers
\nand Sister Johnson, who are them<\/p>\n

596
\n00:34:46,719 –> 00:34:50,280
\nas missionaries in, in Nairobi.
\nI stayed with them. <\/p>\n

597
\n00:34:50,920 –> 00:34:54,360
\nThe Sykes, the Sykes, Steve
\nSykes and his wife were there <\/p>\n

598
\n00:34:54,360 –> 00:34:57,160
\nand Wendy Sykes were there.
\nWell, the Stanley own was in <\/p>\n

599
\n00:34:57,160 –> 00:35:00,920
\nNairobi.
\nAnd then in Mauritius there’s <\/p>\n

600
\n00:35:00,920 –> 00:35:03,440
\nsome brother and sisters engaged
\nin mission activity. <\/p>\n

601
\n00:35:03,440 –> 00:35:05,360
\nThere’s, there’re all these
\nplaces there. <\/p>\n

602
\n00:35:07,200 –> 00:35:10,960
\nThere’s an accretional focus, an
\naccretional interest and, and a <\/p>\n

603
\n00:35:10,960 –> 00:35:14,360
\nreason for being there really.
\nAnd on top of that, because the <\/p>\n

604
\n00:35:14,360 –> 00:35:18,680
\nthe sugar on the cake there was
\nthe was the stopover in Israel <\/p>\n

605
\n00:35:18,680 –> 00:35:20,880
\non the way.
\nAnd that was, that was a very <\/p>\n

606
\n00:35:20,920 –> 00:35:22,640
\ngood way to start the trip back
\nhome. <\/p>\n

607
\n00:35:22,840 –> 00:35:25,200
\nYou made a comment in your book
\nwhich I could actually relate <\/p>\n

608
\n00:35:25,200 –> 00:35:26,320
\nto.
\nAnd there’s when you get to <\/p>\n

609
\n00:35:26,320 –> 00:35:27,920
\nIsrael, you feel like you’re at
\nhome. <\/p>\n

610
\n00:35:28,960 –> 00:35:31,120
\nI thought I I absolutely relate
\nto that. <\/p>\n

611
\n00:35:31,640 –> 00:35:34,920
\nWell, I relate to it too, very
\nmuch so because the, the, the, <\/p>\n

612
\n00:35:35,360 –> 00:35:38,320
\nthe main thing is that the, what
\nyou read, the place you read <\/p>\n

613
\n00:35:38,320 –> 00:35:41,600
\nabout in Scripture, come up,
\ncome alive. <\/p>\n

614
\n00:35:41,600 –> 00:35:44,480
\nYou know, you can, you can, when
\nyou read Scripture again, having<\/p>\n

615
\n00:35:44,520 –> 00:35:47,960
\nvisited these places, you can,
\nyou can picture the scene and, <\/p>\n

616
\n00:35:47,960 –> 00:35:50,160
\nand it’s somewhat different to
\nwhat one I’d expected. <\/p>\n

617
\n00:35:50,360 –> 00:35:52,520
\nI hadn’t expected Jerusalem to
\nbe so small. <\/p>\n

618
\n00:35:52,640 –> 00:35:57,160
\nIt’s quite, you can walk around
\nJerusalem, you know, half a day,<\/p>\n

619
\n00:35:57,160 –> 00:36:00,560
\nalmost or less.
\nSo, So it allows you to get a <\/p>\n

620
\n00:36:00,560 –> 00:36:04,360
\nfeel for the dimensions of the
\nplace or the, OR the topography <\/p>\n

621
\n00:36:04,360 –> 00:36:07,400
\nof the, of the land or how
\nplaces fit. <\/p>\n

622
\n00:36:07,440 –> 00:36:10,200
\nYou know, when you read them
\nduring your daily readings, you <\/p>\n

623
\n00:36:10,200 –> 00:36:14,200
\ncan, you can sort of visualize
\nthe scenes even like the Galilee<\/p>\n

624
\n00:36:14,200 –> 00:36:17,400
\nand the, the several amount, you
\nknow, when you’ve been to the <\/p>\n

625
\n00:36:17,400 –> 00:36:21,280
\nplace where the servant was
\ngiven it’s look across the <\/p>\n

626
\n00:36:21,280 –> 00:36:23,880
\nGalilee and across the the Sea
\nof Galilee. <\/p>\n

627
\n00:36:23,880 –> 00:36:26,040
\nThere.
\nIt still allows you to read <\/p>\n

628
\n00:36:26,040 –> 00:36:30,760
\nScripture with another, another
\ndimension with a perspective of <\/p>\n

629
\n00:36:31,120 –> 00:36:35,080
\nhaving been there.
\nYou have some idea of the of the<\/p>\n

630
\n00:36:35,480 –> 00:36:37,640
\nlocation of the topography and
\nso on. <\/p>\n

631
\n00:36:39,880 –> 00:36:42,200
\nGreat experience.
\nYou were a young brother at this<\/p>\n

632
\n00:36:42,200 –> 00:36:44,880
\nstage, you’re not married and
\nyou didn’t get married. <\/p>\n

633
\n00:36:45,440 –> 00:36:48,000
\nAnd you mentioned that you had
\nsome interest, but they weren’t <\/p>\n

634
\n00:36:48,000 –> 00:36:51,400
\nreciprocated, which I did find
\namusing. <\/p>\n

635
\n00:36:52,560 –> 00:36:57,280
\nMaybe I shouldn’t have what?
\nWhat advice do you have for <\/p>\n

636
\n00:36:57,280 –> 00:36:58,840
\nyoung people?
\nBecause not everyone gets <\/p>\n

637
\n00:36:58,840 –> 00:37:02,600
\nmarried, so you had to sort of
\ncome to grips with that. <\/p>\n

638
\n00:37:03,040 –> 00:37:04,600
\nWhat are your reflections on
\nthat? <\/p>\n

639
\n00:37:05,600 –> 00:37:07,680
\nThat’s a very good question
\nreally, because this is sort of <\/p>\n

640
\n00:37:07,680 –> 00:37:11,240
\nmore personal aspect, I suppose,
\nbut the, the, the overriding <\/p>\n

641
\n00:37:11,840 –> 00:37:16,360
\nfeeling I have on all those the
\nLord directs your Lord directs <\/p>\n

642
\n00:37:16,360 –> 00:37:20,040
\nyour life really that that I I
\nhope was a theme that came <\/p>\n

643
\n00:37:20,040 –> 00:37:22,640
\nthrough from the book that I
\nwrote, the autobiography. <\/p>\n

644
\n00:37:22,920 –> 00:37:25,920
\nI I felt that the Lord directed
\nme because like marriage, <\/p>\n

645
\n00:37:26,320 –> 00:37:29,760
\nmarriage obviously would have
\nbeen very nice, but then on the <\/p>\n

646
\n00:37:29,760 –> 00:37:34,080
\nother side of the coin, I would
\nnot have been able to do all <\/p>\n

647
\n00:37:34,640 –> 00:37:36,960
\nmany things I did.
\nI have done. <\/p>\n

648
\n00:37:36,960 –> 00:37:39,920
\nYou know, if I had been married,
\nwould it be impossible to to <\/p>\n

649
\n00:37:39,960 –> 00:37:44,920
\nhave moved around as much as I
\nhave business so many occasions <\/p>\n

650
\n00:37:44,920 –> 00:37:47,680
\nhave been involved in missionary
\nactivities would mean would not <\/p>\n

651
\n00:37:47,680 –> 00:37:49,920
\nhave been it would not have been
\ndifficult. <\/p>\n

652
\n00:37:49,960 –> 00:37:51,600
\nIt would not have been possible.
\nIt would have been very <\/p>\n

653
\n00:37:51,600 –> 00:37:52,680
\ncircumscribed.
\nReally. <\/p>\n

654
\n00:37:53,080 –> 00:37:54,480
\nIt’s not that I didn’t want to
\nget married. <\/p>\n

655
\n00:37:55,200 –> 00:37:59,240
\nIt’s just it was just the way
\nthe course of life took. <\/p>\n

656
\n00:37:59,240 –> 00:38:00,040
\nReally.
\nIt was not. <\/p>\n

657
\n00:38:00,360 –> 00:38:02,680
\nI wouldn’t say it was an even a
\ndecision. <\/p>\n

658
\n00:38:03,120 –> 00:38:06,880
\nIt was just the way events
\nunfolded and I accepted them as <\/p>\n

659
\n00:38:06,880 –> 00:38:11,880
\nthe Lord’s direction and and
\nunfolded a way which I felt in <\/p>\n

660
\n00:38:11,880 –> 00:38:19,880
\nthe end was my own spiritual
\nadvantage because in marriage I <\/p>\n

661
\n00:38:19,880 –> 00:38:23,720
\ncouldn’t, I just couldn’t have,
\nI couldn’t have done those <\/p>\n

662
\n00:38:23,720 –> 00:38:25,680
\nthings.
\nI would have just, I would have <\/p>\n

663
\n00:38:25,680 –> 00:38:27,800
\nbeen, would have just not been
\npossible. <\/p>\n

664
\n00:38:27,800 –> 00:38:30,280
\nNow, I’m not saying one thing is
\nbetter than another. <\/p>\n

665
\n00:38:30,520 –> 00:38:35,360
\nIt’s just the the the flow of
\nlife was and I I took it <\/p>\n

666
\n00:38:35,360 –> 00:38:39,960
\nstrongly as the as the Lord’s
\nguide guidance and accepted it <\/p>\n

667
\n00:38:39,960 –> 00:38:45,280
\nand and joyfully so because I’m
\nvery, very happy and and content<\/p>\n

668
\n00:38:45,280 –> 00:38:48,600
\nlife.
\nOh, I think the theme of <\/p>\n

669
\n00:38:48,720 –> 00:38:51,440
\nsubmitting to and allowing the
\nLord to work in your life very <\/p>\n

670
\n00:38:51,440 –> 00:38:55,120
\nmuch did come out in the book.
\nI think it it, it was, it was <\/p>\n

671
\n00:38:55,120 –> 00:38:56,040
\nstrong for.
\nSure. <\/p>\n

672
\n00:38:56,200 –> 00:38:58,680
\nThat was my objective.
\nI, I really wanted that flavour <\/p>\n

673
\n00:38:58,680 –> 00:39:01,720
\nand it’s not, it’s not a
\ncontrast, hopefully not a <\/p>\n

674
\n00:39:01,720 –> 00:39:06,600
\ncontrived theme, but I just, I
\njust felt that the, that was the<\/p>\n

675
\n00:39:06,600 –> 00:39:09,920
\ncentral theme I wanted to convey
\nthat the Lord does direct one’s <\/p>\n

676
\n00:39:09,920 –> 00:39:12,120
\nlife.
\nIf one proceeds in prayer and, <\/p>\n

677
\n00:39:12,440 –> 00:39:15,960
\nand with a good spiritual back
\nbackground, which I was given, <\/p>\n

678
\n00:39:16,440 –> 00:39:19,960
\nthen the Lord’s erection is, is
\nabsolutely critical. <\/p>\n

679
\n00:39:20,040 –> 00:39:26,800
\nAnd I I I accepted them.
\nWell, you’re you’ve taken the <\/p>\n

680
\n00:39:26,800 –> 00:39:29,000
\nopportunity to go and do some
\nstudy at Yale. <\/p>\n

681
\n00:39:29,240 –> 00:39:34,520
\nSo you left Sydney, left
\nAdelaide and went to the US. <\/p>\n

682
\n00:39:35,400 –> 00:39:38,960
\nAnother new experience.
\nWell, that was a big change, you<\/p>\n

683
\n00:39:38,960 –> 00:39:42,000
\nknow, because that was again
\nprovided by the Reserve Bank. <\/p>\n

684
\n00:39:42,000 –> 00:39:46,560
\nThe Reserve Bank was just just
\nan extraordinary employer in <\/p>\n

685
\n00:39:46,560 –> 00:39:49,480
\nthat sense.
\nAnd and again seems odd to say <\/p>\n

686
\n00:39:49,680 –> 00:39:51,280
\nfor Central Bank to be got
\ndirected. <\/p>\n

687
\n00:39:51,280 –> 00:39:53,960
\nIt seems very odd to say that,
\nbut it was because he opened up <\/p>\n

688
\n00:39:53,960 –> 00:39:55,640
\nall these different
\nopportunities. <\/p>\n

689
\n00:39:56,120 –> 00:40:01,120
\nSo I, I had, I took this
\ngraduate degree at Yale <\/p>\n

690
\n00:40:01,120 –> 00:40:05,760
\nUniversity, which is a, a very,
\nit was, it was challenging <\/p>\n

691
\n00:40:05,760 –> 00:40:08,800
\nbecause it’s a very good
\nuniversity and, and the style of<\/p>\n

692
\n00:40:08,800 –> 00:40:13,600
\nthe style of teaching there is,
\nis different. <\/p>\n

693
\n00:40:13,600 –> 00:40:15,480
\nWhen I was used to at the
\nUniversity of Adelaide, it was <\/p>\n

694
\n00:40:15,480 –> 00:40:20,440
\nvery, very, very, very.
\nHow would you say that the <\/p>\n

695
\n00:40:20,440 –> 00:40:22,720
\nteaching was not just a
\nprofessor standing up front, <\/p>\n

696
\n00:40:22,720 –> 00:40:25,720
\nJust.
\nTalking for an hour, it was all <\/p>\n

697
\n00:40:25,720 –> 00:40:29,000
\ninteractive and I, I was just
\nnot used to that style of, of <\/p>\n

698
\n00:40:29,120 –> 00:40:31,400
\ninstruction at all.
\nSo and you, you just had to <\/p>\n

699
\n00:40:31,400 –> 00:40:33,720
\ncontribute.
\nAnd so it was, it was <\/p>\n

700
\n00:40:33,720 –> 00:40:37,040
\nchallenging, but, and of course
\nsome of the professors, they <\/p>\n

701
\n00:40:37,040 –> 00:40:40,200
\nwere very well known as some
\nvery good economists there. <\/p>\n

702
\n00:40:40,640 –> 00:40:44,760
\nSo, so the experience was, was a
\nchallenge professionally, but <\/p>\n

703
\n00:40:45,160 –> 00:40:49,200
\nvery rewarding, I would say.
\nBut they, they, the very nice <\/p>\n

704
\n00:40:49,200 –> 00:40:52,000
\nthing about is that the Yale
\nUniversity is, it’s, it’s only <\/p>\n

705
\n00:40:52,000 –> 00:40:55,880
\nabout 30 miles away, I guess,
\nfrom the Meriden Ecclesia and <\/p>\n

706
\n00:40:55,880 –> 00:41:00,080
\nthe Meriden Ecclesia in
\nConnecticut and Central in <\/p>\n

707
\n00:41:00,160 –> 00:41:03,000
\ncentral Connecticut.
\nAnd so I, I joined, when I was <\/p>\n

708
\n00:41:03,000 –> 00:41:06,600
\nthere, I joined the Meriden
\nEcclesia, which was a charming <\/p>\n

709
\n00:41:06,600 –> 00:41:11,960
\necclesia, just lovely.
\nAnd they were, they, I had the <\/p>\n

710
\n00:41:11,960 –> 00:41:14,320
\nfondest memories of the times I
\nwas there. <\/p>\n

711
\n00:41:14,720 –> 00:41:18,240
\nThey looked after me.
\nYeah, of course, I was living in<\/p>\n

712
\n00:41:18,240 –> 00:41:20,000
\nthe Hall of graduate studies at
\nuniversity. <\/p>\n

713
\n00:41:20,000 –> 00:41:23,120
\nSo it was so nice to get away
\nfrom the university and the <\/p>\n

714
\n00:41:23,120 –> 00:41:24,920
\npressure of the university.
\nThere’ll always be a Sunday to <\/p>\n

715
\n00:41:24,920 –> 00:41:28,240
\nlook forward to and the the
\nfellowship and hospitality that <\/p>\n

716
\n00:41:28,240 –> 00:41:31,600
\nthey provided was very, very
\nmemorable. <\/p>\n

717
\n00:41:31,720 –> 00:41:34,520
\nYou have to tell the story of
\nwhen you arrived there first. <\/p>\n

718
\n00:41:34,960 –> 00:41:41,600
\nOh, well, yes, well, the very
\nfirst Sunday I was, I was there.<\/p>\n

719
\n00:41:41,600 –> 00:41:44,640
\nI, the, as I said, the
\nuniversity was about 30 miles <\/p>\n

720
\n00:41:44,640 –> 00:41:50,680
\naway from the Meridian Ecclesia
\nand I booked a taxi to take me <\/p>\n

721
\n00:41:50,680 –> 00:41:53,480
\nthe next morning to the treasure
\nhall. <\/p>\n

722
\n00:41:53,800 –> 00:41:59,520
\nAnd I, and they, they said that
\nthey, there’s a shortage of <\/p>\n

723
\n00:42:00,080 –> 00:42:03,520
\nregular taxis and they’ll be
\nproviding a, a stretch <\/p>\n

724
\n00:42:03,520 –> 00:42:07,320
\nlimousine.
\nSo I was alarmed, you know, Oh <\/p>\n

725
\n00:42:07,800 –> 00:42:11,320
\nmy, I thought it was very
\namusing at first then and I got <\/p>\n

726
\n00:42:11,320 –> 00:42:13,320
\ncloser and closer to the
\ntreasure hall. <\/p>\n

727
\n00:42:13,960 –> 00:42:16,280
\nOh dear.
\nWhat are the, what are the local<\/p>\n

728
\n00:42:16,280 –> 00:42:19,680
\nbrothers and sisters going to
\ntrying to think of this as this <\/p>\n

729
\n00:42:19,680 –> 00:42:23,240
\nAustralian, young Australian
\nbrother arriving at the scene <\/p>\n

730
\n00:42:23,600 –> 00:42:28,200
\nand, and I arrived at the time
\nof maximum embarrassment <\/p>\n

731
\n00:42:28,200 –> 00:42:31,960
\nactually, because the, it was a,
\nit was a period between the <\/p>\n

732
\n00:42:31,960 –> 00:42:35,240
\nfinishing of the Sunday school
\nand, and the memorial service. <\/p>\n

733
\n00:42:35,240 –> 00:42:37,720
\nSo quite a lot of the folks were
\noutside and on the lawns. <\/p>\n

734
\n00:42:38,080 –> 00:42:40,520
\nAnd so here I was arriving in
\nthis enormous car. <\/p>\n

735
\n00:42:40,520 –> 00:42:43,280
\nThat’s all the black car.
\nOh dear. <\/p>\n

736
\n00:42:43,800 –> 00:42:47,080
\nI, I was never, I was never
\nallowed to forget that moment. <\/p>\n

737
\n00:42:48,320 –> 00:42:50,920
\nA great introduction to your new
\necclesial home for the next <\/p>\n

738
\n00:42:50,920 –> 00:42:55,160
\nlittle while.
\nYes, it was and the music, but <\/p>\n

739
\n00:42:55,160 –> 00:42:59,040
\nthat, that was an ecclesia of
\nabout 50 members or so and, and <\/p>\n

740
\n00:42:59,040 –> 00:43:04,560
\nvery nice, very nice ecclesia
\nand extremely hospitable. <\/p>\n

741
\n00:43:04,880 –> 00:43:10,720
\nAnd then during the summer
\nmonths, I, I, I was given an <\/p>\n

742
\n00:43:10,720 –> 00:43:13,720
\nEmployment Opportunity in
\nWashington, but then of course, <\/p>\n

743
\n00:43:13,720 –> 00:43:16,160
\ntook the chance to visit some of
\nthe American Bible schools. <\/p>\n

744
\n00:43:16,160 –> 00:43:20,800
\nSo, and at that time I thought
\nWilbraham was the main, <\/p>\n

745
\n00:43:21,280 –> 00:43:24,000
\nWilbraham was the main school
\nwhich I went to. <\/p>\n

746
\n00:43:24,000 –> 00:43:29,320
\nAnd that was, you know, I was,
\nthere was a member of all those,<\/p>\n

747
\n00:43:29,400 –> 00:43:31,720
\nBrother Harry Whitaker was a
\nspeaker, I think, and Brother <\/p>\n

748
\n00:43:31,720 –> 00:43:35,520
\nAlfred Norris.
\nIt was just a, it was a panel of<\/p>\n

749
\n00:43:36,360 –> 00:43:40,080
\nbiblical experts.
\nSo that was that was a time to <\/p>\n

750
\n00:43:40,080 –> 00:43:42,920
\nremember.
\nYou returned to Sydney via the <\/p>\n

751
\n00:43:43,280 –> 00:43:48,080
\nSoviet Union.
\nYeah, well, I was wanting to <\/p>\n

752
\n00:43:48,200 –> 00:43:51,760
\nsort of maximise opportunities
\nand the Reserve Bank typically <\/p>\n

753
\n00:43:51,760 –> 00:43:53,560
\nwas saying just come back
\nanywhere you like. <\/p>\n

754
\n00:43:54,160 –> 00:43:58,040
\nSo which they’ve done on the way
\nback from London, you know, I <\/p>\n

755
\n00:43:58,040 –> 00:43:59,520
\nmentioned through Israel and
\nAfrica. <\/p>\n

756
\n00:44:00,080 –> 00:44:02,560
\nSo I thought, well why not try
\nsomething good ambitious. <\/p>\n

757
\n00:44:02,880 –> 00:44:06,200
\nI always ask them, you know, if
\nthis is reasonable or they <\/p>\n

758
\n00:44:06,200 –> 00:44:09,920
\nalways said yes, it’s fine.
\nSo, so I threw from the US <\/p>\n

759
\n00:44:10,000 –> 00:44:15,120
\nthey’re back to I went through
\nthe UK for then went on to the <\/p>\n

760
\n00:44:15,120 –> 00:44:18,880
\nSoviet Union.
\nWhen it still was the Soviet <\/p>\n

761
\n00:44:18,880 –> 00:44:25,600
\nUnion, I stopped in Leningrad
\nand and Moscow in the middle of <\/p>\n

762
\n00:44:25,600 –> 00:44:28,400
\nwinter.
\nOh my, it was freezing and, and <\/p>\n

763
\n00:44:28,400 –> 00:44:32,080
\neven more so in Helsinki and
\nFinland, where, where, where the<\/p>\n

764
\n00:44:32,080 –> 00:44:33,880
\nweather was.
\nI don’t know how many degrees <\/p>\n

765
\n00:44:33,880 –> 00:44:36,880
\nbelow freezing, but that was
\ninteresting. <\/p>\n

766
\n00:44:37,120 –> 00:44:40,240
\nI, I found, I found Leningrad,
\nwell, Saint Peters very much <\/p>\n

767
\n00:44:40,240 –> 00:44:42,840
\nmore interesting than Moscow
\nbecause it has all the, has all <\/p>\n

768
\n00:44:42,840 –> 00:44:46,360
\nthe Russian history, the, the
\nHermitage, the old, the Irish <\/p>\n

769
\n00:44:46,360 –> 00:44:52,200
\npalaces and so on.
\nAnd, and even, and the whole <\/p>\n

770
\n00:44:52,640 –> 00:44:56,600
\nLeningrad or Saint Petersburg
\nextremely attractive city in, in<\/p>\n

771
\n00:44:57,680 –> 00:44:59,920
\nparticularly from a historical
\nperspective. <\/p>\n

772
\n00:44:59,920 –> 00:45:04,720
\nSo, so that was, that was
\ninteresting. <\/p>\n

773
\n00:45:04,960 –> 00:45:08,720
\nAnd I flew on from Russia down
\nto down to India and then <\/p>\n

774
\n00:45:09,000 –> 00:45:11,960
\nstopped up in Sri Lanka.
\nIt was Salon and then back home.<\/p>\n

775
\n00:45:12,680 –> 00:45:17,120
\nAnd back to Sydney for a period
\nof time in the overall in your <\/p>\n

776
\n00:45:17,120 –> 00:45:20,960
\noverall life a short time.
\nYeah, that was interesting <\/p>\n

777
\n00:45:20,960 –> 00:45:24,280
\nbecause I, I went back to Sydney
\nfor and rejoined the Board of <\/p>\n

778
\n00:45:24,280 –> 00:45:26,640
\nClosure and I was happy to be
\nback there. <\/p>\n

779
\n00:45:26,640 –> 00:45:33,040
\nAnd then then the opportunity
\ncame up to to be seconded to the<\/p>\n

780
\n00:45:33,040 –> 00:45:36,680
\nIMF, the International Monetary
\nFund in Washington. <\/p>\n

781
\n00:45:37,400 –> 00:45:42,920
\nAnd I was offered a three month,
\na three-year secondment. <\/p>\n

782
\n00:45:42,920 –> 00:45:47,160
\nOf course, it was a bit awkward
\nactually, because I had to be <\/p>\n

783
\n00:45:47,160 –> 00:45:50,520
\nvery careful that I didn’t upset
\nthe Reserve Bank. <\/p>\n

784
\n00:45:50,520 –> 00:45:53,880
\nThe Reserve Bank had been so
\ngood to me with these training, <\/p>\n

785
\n00:45:54,880 –> 00:45:59,080
\nall the rest of that, I just
\ncouldn’t announce that I was <\/p>\n

786
\n00:45:59,080 –> 00:46:03,440
\ngoing to take this secondment.
\nSo I make quite sure that the <\/p>\n

787
\n00:46:03,440 –> 00:46:06,600
\nReserve Bank was happy and at
\nthe time they got, the Reserve <\/p>\n

788
\n00:46:06,600 –> 00:46:10,320
\nBank was very liberal in the
\nsense he, he felt that you work <\/p>\n

789
\n00:46:10,320 –> 00:46:12,880
\nfor international organization
\nthat’s good for Australia and so<\/p>\n

790
\n00:46:12,880 –> 00:46:16,160
\non.
\nSo, so I, I again, I went to <\/p>\n

791
\n00:46:16,160 –> 00:46:20,480
\nthe, I went to the IMF with the
\nReserve Bank’s blessing. <\/p>\n

792
\n00:46:20,480 –> 00:46:22,400
\nReally they didn’t require me to
\nresign. <\/p>\n

793
\n00:46:23,120 –> 00:46:28,080
\nThey gave me 3, three years
\nleave of absence to, to work in,<\/p>\n

794
\n00:46:28,760 –> 00:46:32,440
\nin the IMF of Washington.
\nSo that that that gave me time <\/p>\n

795
\n00:46:32,440 –> 00:46:35,560
\nto work out whether how I felt
\nabout working and living in the <\/p>\n

796
\n00:46:35,680 –> 00:46:38,680
\nin the United States.
\nSo whereabouts was that? <\/p>\n

797
\n00:46:38,760 –> 00:46:40,520
\nWhere did you go for there for
\nthat? <\/p>\n

798
\n00:46:40,760 –> 00:46:45,720
\nWell, the IMF is based in, in
\nWashington and the the IMF, the <\/p>\n

799
\n00:46:45,800 –> 00:46:49,080
\nInternational Monetary Fund is
\na, is a international sort of <\/p>\n

800
\n00:46:49,080 –> 00:46:55,320
\nfinancial agency where most
\ncountries in the world are <\/p>\n

801
\n00:46:55,320 –> 00:46:59,360
\nmembers.
\nWell, the most. <\/p>\n

802
\n00:46:59,760 –> 00:47:02,920
\nAnd initially I worked in the,
\nin the research department of <\/p>\n

803
\n00:47:02,920 –> 00:47:05,560
\nthe IMF, But then then after
\nyou’ve been there for a while, <\/p>\n

804
\n00:47:05,560 –> 00:47:10,880
\nyou’re, you’re, you’re, you, you
\nwork on a particular country, <\/p>\n

805
\n00:47:12,920 –> 00:47:15,600
\nyou, you’re, and you sort of
\nwait with bated breath to work <\/p>\n

806
\n00:47:15,600 –> 00:47:18,520
\nout what this country will be
\nbecause you don’t know, it could<\/p>\n

807
\n00:47:18,520 –> 00:47:25,200
\nbe anywhere, really anywhere in
\nthe world and as placed in the <\/p>\n

808
\n00:47:25,560 –> 00:47:29,960
\nEuropean department or the IMF.
\nAnd then the nitty gritty, what,<\/p>\n

809
\n00:47:29,960 –> 00:47:31,600
\nwhat country are you going to
\nwork on? <\/p>\n

810
\n00:47:32,280 –> 00:47:37,120
\nAnd and then then I was
\nastonished, actually astonished.<\/p>\n

811
\n00:47:37,120 –> 00:47:39,960
\nAnd this is another case of of
\nGod direction. <\/p>\n

812
\n00:47:40,280 –> 00:47:44,960
\nI was astonished by being asked
\nwhether I would like to to work <\/p>\n

813
\n00:47:44,960 –> 00:47:50,240
\non Israel because Israel was at
\nthat time would not the Middle <\/p>\n

814
\n00:47:50,240 –> 00:47:53,120
\nEast department would not accept
\nIsrael as a member. <\/p>\n

815
\n00:47:53,320 –> 00:47:55,400
\nSo Israel was actually
\nadministered by the European <\/p>\n

816
\n00:47:55,400 –> 00:47:59,320
\nDepartment of the IMF.
\nThe economic relations were <\/p>\n

817
\n00:47:59,520 –> 00:48:01,720
\nemissive in the European
\nDepartment. <\/p>\n

818
\n00:48:02,120 –> 00:48:08,880
\nSo, so I was my first
\nassignment, the country <\/p>\n

819
\n00:48:08,880 –> 00:48:15,080
\nassignment for, for the IMF, my
\nfirst country assignment was, <\/p>\n

820
\n00:48:15,240 –> 00:48:19,040
\nwas Israel.
\nAnd that was wonderful. <\/p>\n

821
\n00:48:19,040 –> 00:48:21,080
\nOf course, you know, I went
\nthere many times to work. <\/p>\n

822
\n00:48:21,880 –> 00:48:27,000
\nAt the time, Israel was having
\na, quite a major, a major <\/p>\n

823
\n00:48:27,000 –> 00:48:29,480
\neconomic problem.
\nSo they were borrowing very, <\/p>\n

824
\n00:48:29,480 –> 00:48:31,480
\nquite substantially from
\ndifferent organisations, <\/p>\n

825
\n00:48:31,480 –> 00:48:33,960
\nincluding the IMF.
\nSo, so these are these were <\/p>\n

826
\n00:48:33,960 –> 00:48:40,040
\nnegotiating missions for the
\nloans I took from the IMF. <\/p>\n

827
\n00:48:41,120 –> 00:48:46,360
\nBut of course it gave me an A
\nnew dimension or a new <\/p>\n

828
\n00:48:46,360 –> 00:48:50,640
\nopportunity to to learn more
\nabout Israel because people <\/p>\n

829
\n00:48:50,640 –> 00:48:53,840
\nthere quickly, the authorities
\nthere quickly got the message. <\/p>\n

830
\n00:48:53,840 –> 00:48:55,200
\nI was interested in biblical
\nhistory. <\/p>\n

831
\n00:48:55,200 –> 00:48:57,920
\nSo, so they’re very good to me
\nthe way they took me to <\/p>\n

832
\n00:48:57,920 –> 00:49:01,960
\ndifferent places, you know what
\nduring breaks, you know what <\/p>\n

833
\n00:49:01,960 –> 00:49:06,360
\nhave you walking towards
\nJerusalem and so on, so on. <\/p>\n

834
\n00:49:06,920 –> 00:49:12,120
\nSo that was that was one of the
\nclearest indications of God <\/p>\n

835
\n00:49:12,120 –> 00:49:16,680
\ndirection working on Israel.
\nI was just, I didn’t ask for <\/p>\n

836
\n00:49:16,680 –> 00:49:20,720
\njust this happened.
\nAmazing. <\/p>\n

837
\n00:49:21,240 –> 00:49:23,400
\nYou would have had the privilege
\nof being able to see the <\/p>\n

838
\n00:49:23,400 –> 00:49:26,120
\ndifference in Israel or
\nparticularly Jerusalem, I guess <\/p>\n

839
\n00:49:26,240 –> 00:49:31,000
\nbetween 1965 and then later in
\nthe late 60s, early 70s after <\/p>\n

840
\n00:49:31,000 –> 00:49:33,440
\nthe Six Day War.
\nIt would have been amazing to go<\/p>\n

841
\n00:49:33,440 –> 00:49:35,360
\nback and have that different
\nexperience. <\/p>\n

842
\n00:49:35,760 –> 00:49:40,520
\nWell, it was, it was and and
\nwithout name dropping, without <\/p>\n

843
\n00:49:40,840 –> 00:49:43,600
\nwhen I went on these missions
\nwith the IMF, with the IMF, <\/p>\n

844
\n00:49:43,600 –> 00:49:47,080
\nIsrael, you meant the first, the
\nfirst week or so of the visits <\/p>\n

845
\n00:49:47,080 –> 00:49:48,720
\non 10 days.
\nWhere? <\/p>\n

846
\n00:49:48,720 –> 00:49:52,040
\nWhere technical, where you’re
\ndiscussing the economic programs<\/p>\n

847
\n00:49:52,040 –> 00:49:54,800
\nand so on.
\nThe second, the second round was<\/p>\n

848
\n00:49:54,800 –> 00:50:01,040
\nwith the senior people, the
\nministers where you’re where the<\/p>\n

849
\n00:50:01,040 –> 00:50:04,480
\nteam was negotiating the the
\nfinal terms of the loans. <\/p>\n

850
\n00:50:05,080 –> 00:50:08,720
\nAnd that meant that, yeah, that
\ngave me an opportunity to, to me<\/p>\n

851
\n00:50:08,720 –> 00:50:13,120
\nsomething these quite these
\npeople who are well known, Simon<\/p>\n

852
\n00:50:13,120 –> 00:50:17,400
\nPerez and and Nashua Dayan, they
\nwere there, they were ministers <\/p>\n

853
\n00:50:17,400 –> 00:50:20,600
\nof the time.
\nBut so and ABBA Ebam, here’s the<\/p>\n

854
\n00:50:20,600 –> 00:50:25,720
\nforeign minister.
\nSo that was a dimension which <\/p>\n

855
\n00:50:25,720 –> 00:50:27,600
\nwould have been normally out of
\nreach. <\/p>\n

856
\n00:50:27,600 –> 00:50:32,480
\nAnd it would say interesting
\nhearing on speak and even <\/p>\n

857
\n00:50:32,480 –> 00:50:34,800
\ncommencing, of course, with some
\nof them, quite a few of the <\/p>\n

858
\n00:50:34,800 –> 00:50:38,040
\nmeeting.
\nSo that was a a background which<\/p>\n

859
\n00:50:39,080 –> 00:50:43,520
\nwhich I valued very much.
\nAnd then incidentally on that. <\/p>\n

860
\n00:50:43,520 –> 00:50:45,680
\nSo when I was at Yale
\nUniversity, it was a side, side <\/p>\n

861
\n00:50:45,680 –> 00:50:47,600
\nissue.
\nWhen I was at Yale University, <\/p>\n

862
\n00:50:48,040 –> 00:50:51,040
\nGod of Maya’s son was in that
\nwas in the music power and <\/p>\n

863
\n00:50:51,040 –> 00:50:54,640
\nstudying cello.
\nAnd so I always went to her <\/p>\n

864
\n00:50:54,640 –> 00:50:56,680
\ntalks.
\nIt was very, it was very <\/p>\n

865
\n00:50:56,680 –> 00:50:59,680
\ninteresting listening to to
\nthese leaders. <\/p>\n

866
\n00:51:00,320 –> 00:51:02,520
\nAnd you realize when you hit
\nlisten to them, you realize that<\/p>\n

867
\n00:51:02,520 –> 00:51:06,120
\nthese are just ordinary,
\nordinary people on the way or <\/p>\n

868
\n00:51:06,120 –> 00:51:09,120
\nthey they gifted many respects,
\nobviously, but the ordinary <\/p>\n

869
\n00:51:09,120 –> 00:51:12,040
\npeople who thrust into into
\nimportant positions. <\/p>\n

870
\n00:51:12,040 –> 00:51:17,520
\nYeah, but that was a very nice
\naspect of the of the work <\/p>\n

871
\n00:51:17,520 –> 00:51:19,480
\ninvolvement.
\nYou could meet some people which<\/p>\n

872
\n00:51:19,480 –> 00:51:22,800
\nwere which were which you
\nnormally wouldn’t have the <\/p>\n

873
\n00:51:22,800 –> 00:51:25,560
\nopportunity to do.
\nAnd the other point that you’ve <\/p>\n

874
\n00:51:25,560 –> 00:51:29,640
\nvery mentioned is that going
\nback subsequently you see the <\/p>\n

875
\n00:51:29,640 –> 00:51:33,920
\nchanges, you know, that’s that
\nwas very that’s very <\/p>\n

876
\n00:51:33,920 –> 00:51:35,280
\ninteresting.
\nCan you? <\/p>\n

877
\n00:51:35,880 –> 00:51:38,400
\nYou could spend a lot of time on
\nthis, but just for us lay <\/p>\n

878
\n00:51:38,400 –> 00:51:43,520
\npeople, briefly explain what the
\nIMF does and I guess why you <\/p>\n

879
\n00:51:43,520 –> 00:51:45,080
\nwere going to Israel, what you
\nwere doing. <\/p>\n

880
\n00:51:45,920 –> 00:51:48,920
\nAnd then I’m also interested in
\nconnecting that with, you know, <\/p>\n

881
\n00:51:48,920 –> 00:51:52,160
\nyour view on the extraordinary
\ndevelopment of Israel as a <\/p>\n

882
\n00:51:52,160 –> 00:51:56,360
\nnation, even financially across
\nthose decades. <\/p>\n

883
\n00:51:57,720 –> 00:51:59,600
\nWell, it’s, it’s an interesting
\nquestion. <\/p>\n

884
\n00:51:59,600 –> 00:52:01,920
\nI don’t want to bore you or
\nlisten to the details, but the, <\/p>\n

885
\n00:52:02,160 –> 00:52:08,440
\nthe IMF is, it was mainly you
\ncan advise, so offers advice to <\/p>\n

886
\n00:52:08,440 –> 00:52:11,360
\nall these member countries.
\nThey every year or more, they <\/p>\n

887
\n00:52:11,360 –> 00:52:14,400
\nassess the economic situation of
\nthese countries and, and <\/p>\n

888
\n00:52:14,400 –> 00:52:17,520
\nrecommend actions.
\nOf course, these are sovereign <\/p>\n

889
\n00:52:17,520 –> 00:52:20,560
\ngovernments who can do what they
\nlike, but that the import from <\/p>\n

890
\n00:52:20,560 –> 00:52:22,760
\nthe IMF is usually take into
\naccount quite a bit. <\/p>\n

891
\n00:52:23,320 –> 00:52:27,760
\nSo there’s the advisory side,
\nbut the, the side which I, I was<\/p>\n

892
\n00:52:27,760 –> 00:52:31,320
\nin, involved in more was the,
\nthe loan negotiations. <\/p>\n

893
\n00:52:31,320 –> 00:52:34,240
\nBecause particularly the time
\nwhen I was going there for work,<\/p>\n

894
\n00:52:34,680 –> 00:52:37,760
\nthis row was not terrible
\neconomic situation that there <\/p>\n

895
\n00:52:37,760 –> 00:52:41,000
\nwas hyperinflation, the
\ninflation rate was over 1000%. <\/p>\n

896
\n00:52:42,440 –> 00:52:47,720
\nAnd so they were, they were
\nneeding to borrow quite, quite <\/p>\n

897
\n00:52:47,720 –> 00:52:50,800
\nheavily.
\nAnd so with, with lines of this <\/p>\n

898
\n00:52:50,800 –> 00:52:53,080
\nsort, you, you have to negotiate
\nthe terms, you know, what the <\/p>\n

899
\n00:52:53,080 –> 00:52:56,080
\nexchange rate policy will be,
\nwhat the monetary policy would <\/p>\n

900
\n00:52:56,080 –> 00:53:00,840
\nbe or what it’s up to them in
\nthe in the end to decide whether<\/p>\n

901
\n00:53:00,840 –> 00:53:03,960
\nthey accept the advice or not.
\nBut it’s a negotiation or show <\/p>\n

902
\n00:53:04,000 –> 00:53:07,760
\nback and forth.
\nSo to determine whether the loan<\/p>\n

903
\n00:53:07,760 –> 00:53:13,040
\nwill be could go forward or not.
\nAnd as A at the time, the, as I <\/p>\n

904
\n00:53:13,040 –> 00:53:15,800
\nsay, the Israeli economy was in
\nvery bad shape. <\/p>\n

905
\n00:53:15,800 –> 00:53:21,160
\nIn fact, hyperinflation was so
\nbad that the not the normal joke<\/p>\n

906
\n00:53:21,160 –> 00:53:24,560
\nwas that if you took it went
\nfrom A to B, you took the bus <\/p>\n

907
\n00:53:24,560 –> 00:53:28,040
\nrather than taxi because the bus
\nyou pay upfront, whereas by taxi<\/p>\n

908
\n00:53:28,040 –> 00:53:31,000
\nyou pay when you reached the
\ndestination, right? <\/p>\n

909
\n00:53:31,000 –> 00:53:32,640
\nYes.
\nBy the time you reached the <\/p>\n

910
\n00:53:32,640 –> 00:53:37,920
\nstation by but, but but taxi,
\nthe inflation’s gone up 50%. <\/p>\n

911
\n00:53:39,920 –> 00:53:47,440
\nSo, so the IMF is a, is a, is a,
\nis a advisory institution and, <\/p>\n

912
\n00:53:47,480 –> 00:53:51,200
\nand the lending authority and
\nunder the aegis of the of the <\/p>\n

913
\n00:53:51,200 –> 00:53:54,880
\nUnited Nations.
\nIt’s it’s we, we travel around <\/p>\n

914
\n00:53:54,880 –> 00:53:58,320
\nthe UN passports, which itself
\nwas very nice because it gave us<\/p>\n

915
\n00:53:58,920 –> 00:54:01,760
\nbenefits.
\nSo reflecting on Israel, where <\/p>\n

916
\n00:54:01,760 –> 00:54:06,480
\nit came from obviously in 1948
\nthrough that those troubled <\/p>\n

917
\n00:54:06,480 –> 00:54:11,440
\ntimes of the 70s where reading
\nbetween the lines, they could <\/p>\n

918
\n00:54:11,440 –> 00:54:14,920
\nhave gone broke in in inverted
\ncommas to where they are today, <\/p>\n

919
\n00:54:14,920 –> 00:54:18,000
\nalmost an economic powerhouse.
\nWhat are your thoughts on that? <\/p>\n

920
\n00:54:18,760 –> 00:54:22,000
\nWell, that’s a very interesting
\nquestion because because Israel <\/p>\n

921
\n00:54:22,000 –> 00:54:24,480
\ndoes not have great resources,
\nreally it doesn’t. <\/p>\n

922
\n00:54:24,560 –> 00:54:29,480
\nSo I, I won’t, I’ll never get a
\nstatement by Shahram, who at the<\/p>\n

923
\n00:54:29,480 –> 00:54:32,960
\ntime was agricultural
\nagricultural minister. <\/p>\n

924
\n00:54:32,960 –> 00:54:36,360
\nHe was explaining that the
\nresource constraints in Israel <\/p>\n

925
\n00:54:36,680 –> 00:54:40,720
\nand he was saying that Israel
\nhas a, an economic advantage in <\/p>\n

926
\n00:54:40,720 –> 00:54:45,200
\noranges and soldiers.
\nIt was an unforgettable comment.<\/p>\n

927
\n00:54:45,600 –> 00:54:48,200
\nThey haven’t.
\nAnd then when you reflect Israel<\/p>\n

928
\n00:54:48,200 –> 00:54:51,920
\ndoes not have, doesn’t have oil
\nresources like like the Arabian <\/p>\n

929
\n00:54:51,920 –> 00:54:54,840
\nstates.
\nIt’s just, it does not so, and <\/p>\n

930
\n00:54:54,840 –> 00:54:57,480
\nthat’s one of the future things
\nthat will happen when the Lord <\/p>\n

931
\n00:54:57,480 –> 00:54:59,440
\nreturns.
\nIt will be, it will flourish <\/p>\n

932
\n00:54:59,440 –> 00:55:02,880
\nlike the desert will flourish.
\nIt’s a country with very limited<\/p>\n

933
\n00:55:02,880 –> 00:55:06,520
\nresources and the, but it’s had
\nan extraordinary growth because <\/p>\n

934
\n00:55:06,520 –> 00:55:08,800
\nthe, the people are so
\ntechnically skilled that they, <\/p>\n

935
\n00:55:08,880 –> 00:55:12,800
\nthey developed all these
\ntechnical industries, these high<\/p>\n

936
\n00:55:12,800 –> 00:55:15,360
\ntech industries, you know, where
\nthey have the, the wonderful <\/p>\n

937
\n00:55:15,360 –> 00:55:18,800
\nexpertise and they, and the, the
\ngrowth of the country, the <\/p>\n

938
\n00:55:18,920 –> 00:55:21,800
\neconomic growth of the country
\nhas been quite remarkable given <\/p>\n

939
\n00:55:21,800 –> 00:55:25,120
\nthe, given the general paucity
\nyou, you think of Israel <\/p>\n

940
\n00:55:25,120 –> 00:55:28,600
\nrelative to the Arabian states,
\nwhich are awash with oil and all<\/p>\n

941
\n00:55:28,600 –> 00:55:32,080
\nthat.
\nIsrael doesn’t really have very <\/p>\n

942
\n00:55:32,080 –> 00:55:34,040
\nmuch and not in this
\ndispensation. <\/p>\n

943
\n00:55:35,080 –> 00:55:37,720
\nAnd so it’s, it’s quite
\nmiraculous. <\/p>\n

944
\n00:55:37,720 –> 00:55:40,280
\nI think you’re saying that
\nthey’ve done so well and the, <\/p>\n

945
\n00:55:40,560 –> 00:55:42,440
\nand the growth rate is very
\nhigh. <\/p>\n

946
\n00:55:42,440 –> 00:55:45,760
\nAnd how they ever managed to
\nfinanciate event spending is <\/p>\n

947
\n00:55:46,160 –> 00:55:49,720
\nbeyond me because they get a lot
\nof external help on that. <\/p>\n

948
\n00:55:49,720 –> 00:55:53,320
\nBut, but the defence spending
\nfor a small country of only <\/p>\n

949
\n00:55:53,320 –> 00:55:56,000
\nabout 9 million people is, is
\nextremely onerous. <\/p>\n

950
\n00:55:56,000 –> 00:56:00,000
\nSo, so it’s, it is somewhat of
\nan economic miracle I would say,<\/p>\n

951
\n00:56:01,600 –> 00:56:06,200
\nand a very fascinating case of
\nagain, I’ve got the reckon. <\/p>\n

952
\n00:56:06,640 –> 00:56:09,240
\nWell, you didn’t know it at the
\ntime, but when you moved to <\/p>\n

953
\n00:56:09,240 –> 00:56:11,640
\nWashington, you were going to be
\nthere for I think it was nearly <\/p>\n

954
\n00:56:11,640 –> 00:56:13,520
\n50 years, was it?
\nYeah, yeah. <\/p>\n

955
\n00:56:13,520 –> 00:56:17,360
\nSo after the three years I
\nmentioned, I, I was there <\/p>\n

956
\n00:56:17,600 –> 00:56:19,520
\ninitially advised a common from
\nthe Reserve Bank. <\/p>\n

957
\n00:56:19,640 –> 00:56:22,720
\nAfter the end of three years, I
\njust had to either decide to go <\/p>\n

958
\n00:56:22,720 –> 00:56:27,200
\nback to the Reserve Bank, return
\nto Sydney or to stay on and <\/p>\n

959
\n00:56:27,200 –> 00:56:29,000
\nwatch it.
\nAnd that was a, that was a <\/p>\n

960
\n00:56:29,000 –> 00:56:31,520
\nmajor, that was a major
\ndecision. <\/p>\n

961
\n00:56:32,560 –> 00:56:37,000
\nI eventually signed my, my
\nresignation letter from the <\/p>\n

962
\n00:56:37,000 –> 00:56:40,680
\nReserve Bank and with a sort of
\na trembling hand really, because<\/p>\n

963
\n00:56:40,680 –> 00:56:43,440
\nthat was, they’ve been
\nabsolutely wonderful for me and <\/p>\n

964
\n00:56:43,440 –> 00:56:46,800
\nto me and I made quite sure they
\nwere happy that I was doing <\/p>\n

965
\n00:56:46,800 –> 00:56:48,440
\nthis.
\nI didn’t, I didn’t want to do <\/p>\n

966
\n00:56:48,440 –> 00:56:54,000
\nanything which would upset them.
\nAnd so I, I, I resigned from the<\/p>\n

967
\n00:56:54,000 –> 00:56:57,440
\nZerbank and joined the permanent
\nstaff of the IMF and was with <\/p>\n

968
\n00:56:57,440 –> 00:57:02,400
\nthem for 30 years.
\nSo a long time really, from 1971<\/p>\n

969
\n00:57:02,400 –> 00:57:05,840
\nto 2001.
\nAnd then that gave you <\/p>\n

970
\n00:57:05,840 –> 00:57:10,400
\nextraordinary opportunities to
\nget involved in in Africa and <\/p>\n

971
\n00:57:10,440 –> 00:57:13,000
\nthe subcontinent as well.
\nTell us about some of those <\/p>\n

972
\n00:57:13,000 –> 00:57:16,280
\nexperiences.
\nWell, as I mentioned earlier, I <\/p>\n

973
\n00:57:16,280 –> 00:57:18,800
\nwas initially in the, initially
\nI was in the research <\/p>\n

974
\n00:57:18,800 –> 00:57:20,560
\ndepartment.
\nThen I went to the, as I said to<\/p>\n

975
\n00:57:20,560 –> 00:57:24,160
\nthe European Department that I,
\nI worked on Israel, but then, <\/p>\n

976
\n00:57:24,160 –> 00:57:29,640
\nthen I went to many missions on
\nall over Europe, Portugal, <\/p>\n

977
\n00:57:29,640 –> 00:57:35,880
\nGreece, Spain, Malta, Finland,
\nYugoslavia, Romania, some of <\/p>\n

978
\n00:57:35,880 –> 00:57:39,160
\nthem several times.
\nAnd oddly enough, South Africa. <\/p>\n

979
\n00:57:39,640 –> 00:57:42,320
\nI was still on the European
\nObama because nobody else would <\/p>\n

980
\n00:57:42,320 –> 00:57:46,040
\nhave South Africa.
\nSo, so I went on missions to <\/p>\n

981
\n00:57:46,040 –> 00:57:51,200
\nSouth Africa as well.
\nI suppose, I’m not sure, almost <\/p>\n

982
\n00:57:51,200 –> 00:57:53,600
\n20 years, I guess on the
\nEuropean Obama, which is very <\/p>\n

983
\n00:57:53,600 –> 00:57:58,040
\ninteresting because visiting all
\nthese countries trips would be <\/p>\n

984
\n00:57:58,040 –> 00:58:00,160
\nabout two or three weeks at a
\ntime. <\/p>\n

985
\n00:58:00,160 –> 00:58:02,720
\nYou know, these negotiating
\ntrips were two or three weeks at<\/p>\n

986
\n00:58:02,760 –> 00:58:05,040
\na time.
\nSo you, they weren’t long <\/p>\n

987
\n00:58:05,040 –> 00:58:07,800
\nprotracted absences from
\nWashington, from home there. <\/p>\n

988
\n00:58:08,000 –> 00:58:13,200
\nThat was sort of, they were not,
\nnot terribly intrusive even from<\/p>\n

989
\n00:58:13,200 –> 00:58:18,640
\nan ecclesial point of view.
\nBut of course, I made good use <\/p>\n

990
\n00:58:18,640 –> 00:58:28,760
\nof visiting ecclesias I in
\nGermany and Finland and most of <\/p>\n

991
\n00:58:28,760 –> 00:58:31,800
\nthese places in South Africa are
\nmostly places I visited <\/p>\n

992
\n00:58:31,800 –> 00:58:37,480
\necclesias and, and some of the
\nsome of my mission leaders are <\/p>\n

993
\n00:58:37,480 –> 00:58:42,560
\nthe the heads of the sections
\nthat they knew that I had a <\/p>\n

994
\n00:58:42,560 –> 00:58:46,440
\nscriptural interest.
\nAnd on Sundays, they would <\/p>\n

995
\n00:58:46,440 –> 00:58:49,560
\nnever, I found this quite
\ntouching actually, that, that <\/p>\n

996
\n00:58:49,840 –> 00:58:54,680
\nthat’d always free me on, on
\nSunday mornings to go to a local<\/p>\n

997
\n00:58:54,680 –> 00:58:57,160
\nor cliche service, particularly
\nwhen I was going to Africa, when<\/p>\n

998
\n00:58:57,160 –> 00:59:00,320
\nthere’s so many, so much cliche
\nactivity that they don’t, they <\/p>\n

999
\n00:59:00,320 –> 00:59:05,320
\ndon’t, they’d often give me the
\nfreedom to, to visit the cliches<\/p>\n

1000
\n00:59:05,320 –> 00:59:08,880
\nand have time off from work for
\na few hours. <\/p>\n

1001
\n00:59:10,120 –> 00:59:15,800
\nSo then after, after all those
\nyears in European apt I, I <\/p>\n

1002
\n00:59:15,800 –> 00:59:17,440
\ntransferred to the African
\napartment. <\/p>\n

1003
\n00:59:18,160 –> 00:59:21,800
\nAnd that was, that was
\nabsolutely wonderful, <\/p>\n

1004
\n00:59:22,520 –> 00:59:25,280
\nunforgettable.
\nBecause I, in that particular <\/p>\n

1005
\n00:59:25,280 –> 00:59:27,800
\ncase, I was asked, what country
\nwould you like to work on? <\/p>\n

1006
\n00:59:27,800 –> 00:59:29,480
\nAnd I said I’d love to work on
\nMalawi. <\/p>\n

1007
\n00:59:29,720 –> 00:59:35,320
\nAnd Malawi at that time, of
\ncourse, was, was was was growing<\/p>\n

1008
\n00:59:35,320 –> 00:59:39,480
\nleaps and bounds occasionally.
\nAnd so I went to Malawi many, <\/p>\n

1009
\n00:59:39,480 –> 00:59:43,320
\nmany times and Mozambique and
\nZimbabwe and. <\/p>\n

1010
\n00:59:44,040 –> 00:59:48,480
\nAnd you’ve seen that, seen the
\ngospel message grow amazingly in<\/p>\n

1011
\n00:59:48,480 –> 00:59:50,920
\nthose years.
\nWell, the most amazing was <\/p>\n

1012
\n00:59:50,960 –> 00:59:55,920
\nMalawi Malawi’s as you probably
\nknow from the magazines, Malawi <\/p>\n

1013
\n00:59:55,920 –> 01:00:00,800
\nnow has a Christopian membership
\nof about 10,000 I think and then<\/p>\n

1014
\n01:00:00,800 –> 01:00:03,360
\nand the ALS story for
\nMozambique. <\/p>\n

1015
\n01:00:04,560 –> 01:00:07,000
\nThe current membership of
\nMozambique Ecclesia is about <\/p>\n

1016
\n01:00:07,000 –> 01:00:10,120
\n11,000.
\nAnd when you go to Malawi, <\/p>\n

1017
\n01:00:11,040 –> 01:00:13,360
\ndriving around Malawi, it’s just
\nlike driving around Birmingham <\/p>\n

1018
\n01:00:13,360 –> 01:00:14,880
\nreally.
\nYou drive around there’s, <\/p>\n

1019
\n01:00:15,240 –> 01:00:18,080
\nthere’s a, there’s a glacier
\nhere and the glacier there, <\/p>\n

1020
\n01:00:18,760 –> 01:00:20,640
\nanother village, there’s another
\ncreature there. <\/p>\n

1021
\n01:00:20,920 –> 01:00:23,280
\nAnd of course I went to got a
\nlot of these eclipses and I <\/p>\n

1022
\n01:00:23,280 –> 01:00:26,920
\nfound that totally charming.
\nJust the most of them. <\/p>\n

1023
\n01:00:26,920 –> 01:00:30,080
\nYou walk through the cornfields
\nor they’re out in the rural <\/p>\n

1024
\n01:00:30,080 –> 01:00:33,560
\nareas you and you go to
\nunpretentious sort of mud Hut, <\/p>\n

1025
\n01:00:34,560 –> 01:00:39,640
\nbut and sitting in a African
\ncrucial service. <\/p>\n

1026
\n01:00:39,640 –> 01:00:42,960
\nI, I found it exceptionally
\nuplifting. <\/p>\n

1027
\n01:00:43,080 –> 01:00:46,080
\nJust wonderful really.
\nAnd so I’ve always had a special<\/p>\n

1028
\n01:00:46,080 –> 01:00:50,320
\naffection for Malawi, which is a
\nvery, I must say, a very <\/p>\n

1029
\n01:00:50,320 –> 01:00:55,400
\nbiblical country in a way.
\nAnd and and notably so even even<\/p>\n

1030
\n01:00:55,400 –> 01:00:59,000
\nin business life, I remember
\nquite well some of the speeches <\/p>\n

1031
\n01:00:59,480 –> 01:01:02,320
\nafter the speeches get them
\nbusiness speeches that that they<\/p>\n

1032
\n01:01:02,720 –> 01:01:05,960
\nallow in central bank governor
\nor something or other would cite<\/p>\n

1033
\n01:01:05,960 –> 01:01:11,880
\nsomething from make a point and
\nand cite them or reinforce the <\/p>\n

1034
\n01:01:11,960 –> 01:01:17,560
\nby some scriptural quotation.
\nAnd I remember very well one <\/p>\n

1035
\n01:01:17,640 –> 01:01:21,680
\noccasion where the mission
\nleader asked me he had to <\/p>\n

1036
\n01:01:21,680 –> 01:01:24,240
\nprepare some after dinner after
\ndinner response. <\/p>\n

1037
\n01:01:24,520 –> 01:01:27,280
\nHe wanted to make a point.
\nHe said, Ron, can you can you <\/p>\n

1038
\n01:01:27,280 –> 01:01:30,600
\nfind me a scriptural quotation
\nwhich will support the right <\/p>\n

1039
\n01:01:30,720 –> 01:01:32,840
\nsupport the point I’m making
\nwhatever it was. <\/p>\n

1040
\n01:01:33,680 –> 01:01:39,480
\nSo I did that and and when, when
\nwhen buses roll down the street <\/p>\n

1041
\n01:01:39,480 –> 01:01:42,880
\nin Malawi, they have signs on
\nthe side. <\/p>\n

1042
\n01:01:42,880 –> 01:01:46,800
\nYou know, God is good and you
\nget off the bus and they’re <\/p>\n

1043
\n01:01:46,800 –> 01:01:49,120
\nplaying God and be with you.
\nJoin me again. <\/p>\n

1044
\n01:01:49,400 –> 01:01:52,880
\nIt’s a very it’s a remarkably
\nreligious country or Christian <\/p>\n

1045
\n01:01:52,880 –> 01:01:56,520
\ncountry in that sense.
\nAnd, and because of the, the <\/p>\n

1046
\n01:01:57,640 –> 01:02:01,120
\nfascinating influence of David
\nLivingstone, you know, I’m sure <\/p>\n

1047
\n01:02:01,120 –> 01:02:05,280
\nyou read the history of
\nLivingston, the great explorer, <\/p>\n

1048
\n01:02:05,600 –> 01:02:09,480
\nHis influence on that area is,
\nis, is right, comes right down <\/p>\n

1049
\n01:02:09,480 –> 01:02:12,840
\nto modern times.
\nBut, but it’s, it’s very <\/p>\n

1050
\n01:02:12,840 –> 01:02:16,080
\nfascinating to me to see the
\nMalawian and the Mozambican <\/p>\n

1051
\n01:02:16,720 –> 01:02:21,560
\nexclusion particularly doing so
\nextraordinarily well. <\/p>\n

1052
\n01:02:21,920 –> 01:02:24,520
\nAnd the other area which we need
\nto talk about is the <\/p>\n

1053
\n01:02:24,520 –> 01:02:27,400
\nsubcontinent, India and
\nBangladesh in particular. <\/p>\n

1054
\n01:02:28,000 –> 01:02:30,080
\nWell, that, that’s right, that’s
\ncoming towards now the end of my<\/p>\n

1055
\n01:02:30,080 –> 01:02:33,280
\ncareer with the IMF as you, when
\nyou’ve been in the IMF for quite<\/p>\n

1056
\n01:02:33,280 –> 01:02:37,800
\na long time, you, you become
\neligible for what they call a <\/p>\n

1057
\n01:02:37,880 –> 01:02:40,880
\nresident representative Osama.
\nSo in other words, you, you <\/p>\n

1058
\n01:02:40,880 –> 01:02:42,880
\nrepresent the IMF in that
\ncountry. <\/p>\n

1059
\n01:02:43,400 –> 01:02:48,720
\nAnd they’re not all that easy
\nto, to get assigned to, but <\/p>\n

1060
\n01:02:48,720 –> 01:02:52,240
\nthey’re attractive in many ways.
\nSo I, I didn’t want to finish <\/p>\n

1061
\n01:02:52,240 –> 01:02:55,360
\nthe IMF career without that,
\nthat sort of experience. <\/p>\n

1062
\n01:02:55,720 –> 01:02:57,400
\nI really wanted to go to Sri
\nLanka. <\/p>\n

1063
\n01:02:57,400 –> 01:03:01,080
\nActually, I wanted to take the
\nIMF position there as a small <\/p>\n

1064
\n01:03:01,080 –> 01:03:04,960
\noffice located in the country
\nfor two or three years, not <\/p>\n

1065
\n01:03:04,960 –> 01:03:06,360
\ntravelling to and from
\nWashington. <\/p>\n

1066
\n01:03:06,360 –> 01:03:09,320
\nYou’re actually located in the
\ncountry, but two or three years.<\/p>\n

1067
\n01:03:09,320 –> 01:03:11,840
\nAnd I wanted to go to Sri Lanka,
\nbut it wasn’t available. <\/p>\n

1068
\n01:03:12,000 –> 01:03:16,280
\nThe only, the only option I
\ncould take was, was in <\/p>\n

1069
\n01:03:16,280 –> 01:03:19,280
\nBangladesh.
\nThat didn’t enthuse me too much.<\/p>\n

1070
\n01:03:19,280 –> 01:03:23,160
\nBeing a Muslim country, I
\nthought the, the prospects of <\/p>\n

1071
\n01:03:24,200 –> 01:03:29,560
\nbeing fruitful in a missionary
\nsense wouldn’t be all that <\/p>\n

1072
\n01:03:29,560 –> 01:03:31,960
\npromising.
\nI knew that work wise I knew it <\/p>\n

1073
\n01:03:31,960 –> 01:03:34,480
\nwould be very interesting.
\nBut but then I suddenly realised<\/p>\n

1074
\n01:03:34,560 –> 01:03:38,360
\nthat maybe the Lord’s telling
\nyou, you know, somewhere which <\/p>\n

1075
\n01:03:38,360 –> 01:03:41,440
\nyou haven’t thought of before.
\nSo I accepted the position in <\/p>\n

1076
\n01:03:41,440 –> 01:03:45,760
\nBangladesh and three had three
\nwonderful, wonderful years. <\/p>\n

1077
\n01:03:45,760 –> 01:03:49,840
\nThey really just work wise.
\nIt was extremely interesting <\/p>\n

1078
\n01:03:50,280 –> 01:03:53,440
\nworking there on the economic
\nissues of Bangladesh. <\/p>\n

1079
\n01:03:53,840 –> 01:03:56,920
\nBut then having an opportunity
\nto witness and especially <\/p>\n

1080
\n01:03:56,920 –> 01:04:00,680
\nwitness in a country where which
\nis basically Muslim, it was a <\/p>\n

1081
\n01:04:00,680 –> 01:04:06,120
\nchallenge, but it’s it’s another
\ngrowth, spiritual growth <\/p>\n

1082
\n01:04:06,120 –> 01:04:08,760
\nexperience.
\nAnd we have a number of <\/p>\n

1083
\n01:04:08,760 –> 01:04:10,320
\nresidents, sisters in Bangladesh
\nnow. <\/p>\n

1084
\n01:04:10,600 –> 01:04:13,040
\nYes we do.
\nIt’s a yes we do. <\/p>\n

1085
\n01:04:13,040 –> 01:04:17,240
\nWe have 3, three main Eclis in
\nEnglish now it’s, it’s a <\/p>\n

1086
\n01:04:17,240 –> 01:04:21,080
\ndifficult country.
\nIt’s heavily populated and, and <\/p>\n

1087
\n01:04:21,440 –> 01:04:24,400
\nit’s not easy to witness there
\nbecause you can’t, you can’t <\/p>\n

1088
\n01:04:24,400 –> 01:04:27,400
\ngive out literature.
\nOf course, in a Muslim country, <\/p>\n

1089
\n01:04:27,560 –> 01:04:31,960
\nlots of things you can’t do.
\nBut the long and short of I, I <\/p>\n

1090
\n01:04:31,960 –> 01:04:34,920
\ndidn’t know how to go about this
\nbecause the work wise, I was <\/p>\n

1091
\n01:04:34,920 –> 01:04:38,240
\nvery busy.
\nBut I, I how to, how to witness <\/p>\n

1092
\n01:04:38,920 –> 01:04:40,600
\nthe first few weeks.
\nI was a bit puzzled. <\/p>\n

1093
\n01:04:40,600 –> 01:04:43,520
\nHow am I going to do anything
\nuseful here when you can’t give <\/p>\n

1094
\n01:04:43,520 –> 01:04:45,640
\nout this, which you can’t do
\nthis, you can’t do that. <\/p>\n

1095
\n01:04:45,880 –> 01:04:49,360
\nAnd I looked through the, I got
\nan idea, a God directed idea, I <\/p>\n

1096
\n01:04:49,360 –> 01:04:52,160
\nthink to look through the
\ntelephone book and I, I saw two <\/p>\n

1097
\n01:04:52,680 –> 01:04:55,800
\nreference on the Bible.
\nOne was Bible Society of <\/p>\n

1098
\n01:04:55,800 –> 01:04:57,560
\nBangladesh.
\nAnother one was Bible student <\/p>\n

1099
\n01:04:57,840 –> 01:05:00,880
\nFellowship of Bangladesh.
\nSo I rang the number of Bible <\/p>\n

1100
\n01:05:00,880 –> 01:05:04,120
\nstudent culture of Bangladesh.
\nAnd, and so I’d like to have a <\/p>\n

1101
\n01:05:04,120 –> 01:05:05,760
\nchat to you about what you’re
\ndoing here. <\/p>\n

1102
\n01:05:06,480 –> 01:05:12,240
\nSo I went out there to see them
\nand I think they found it rather<\/p>\n

1103
\n01:05:12,760 –> 01:05:16,480
\nunusual for a foreigner, A
\ndiplomat, to so be showing <\/p>\n

1104
\n01:05:16,480 –> 01:05:20,120
\ninterest in their activities.
\nAnd they asked me, you know <\/p>\n

1105
\n01:05:20,120 –> 01:05:24,600
\nwhat, my background, I gave all
\nthe Christopher background. <\/p>\n

1106
\n01:05:24,600 –> 01:05:27,680
\nI didn’t hide anything.
\nI, I said we’re not mainstream <\/p>\n

1107
\n01:05:28,640 –> 01:05:31,200
\northo Christianity at all, but
\nwe were very keen Bible <\/p>\n

1108
\n01:05:31,200 –> 01:05:33,640
\nstudents.
\nAnd then after a week or two, <\/p>\n

1109
\n01:05:33,640 –> 01:05:37,320
\nthey said, would you like to
\nlead one of our studies here? <\/p>\n

1110
\n01:05:38,400 –> 01:05:39,080
\nOh.
\nWow. <\/p>\n

1111
\n01:05:39,240 –> 01:05:41,480
\nAnd and they asked me what, what
\nhave you been studying lately? <\/p>\n

1112
\n01:05:41,480 –> 01:05:44,000
\nWhen I said I’ve been studying
\nthe Acts of the Apostles, and <\/p>\n

1113
\n01:05:44,240 –> 01:05:47,600
\nthe Acts of the Apostles I think
\nis a wonderful book where you <\/p>\n

1114
\n01:05:47,600 –> 01:05:50,480
\ncan just you don’t seem as
\nthough you’re imposing A <\/p>\n

1115
\n01:05:50,480 –> 01:05:52,800
\ndoctrinal view.
\nYou just go through the book. <\/p>\n

1116
\n01:05:52,800 –> 01:05:54,160
\nAnd what did Peter say about
\nthis? <\/p>\n

1117
\n01:05:54,160 –> 01:05:55,920
\nAnd what?
\nYeah, also something else. <\/p>\n

1118
\n01:05:56,240 –> 01:05:59,400
\nLet the apostles tell the story.
\nThat, that them speak and that <\/p>\n

1119
\n01:05:59,400 –> 01:06:04,440
\nthat was, that was very
\nremarkable because the response <\/p>\n

1120
\n01:06:04,440 –> 01:06:07,760
\nI have from the students, they,
\nthey, they said, you know, can <\/p>\n

1121
\n01:06:07,760 –> 01:06:12,240
\nwe meet outside the classes, you
\nknow, have additional classes. <\/p>\n

1122
\n01:06:12,240 –> 01:06:16,960
\nSo, so anyway, I’ll continue
\nthat to do these classes at the <\/p>\n

1123
\n01:06:17,160 –> 01:06:22,920
\nBible student fellowship.
\nBut but one by one, my, a number<\/p>\n

1124
\n01:06:22,920 –> 01:06:24,800
\nof them came to my home, the IMF
\nhome. <\/p>\n

1125
\n01:06:24,800 –> 01:06:31,280
\nThere was which and from that
\nthe the early ones were <\/p>\n

1126
\n01:06:31,280 –> 01:06:33,160
\nbaptized.
\nThat led to the baptism of quite<\/p>\n

1127
\n01:06:33,160 –> 01:06:36,520
\na few.
\nAnd then that led to others, you<\/p>\n

1128
\n01:06:36,520 –> 01:06:38,280
\nknow, family connections and
\nthings like that. <\/p>\n

1129
\n01:06:38,440 –> 01:06:41,440
\nSo the preaching was there.
\nIt wasn’t, none of it was by <\/p>\n

1130
\n01:06:42,800 –> 01:06:47,360
\nadvertisement or it was all but
\nbasically by word of mouth. <\/p>\n

1131
\n01:06:47,800 –> 01:06:51,240
\nAnd that was very exciting
\nbecause it was just another yet <\/p>\n

1132
\n01:06:51,240 –> 01:06:55,760
\none more answer of prayer.
\nAnd so I, I still have the <\/p>\n

1133
\n01:06:55,760 –> 01:07:00,080
\ngreatest affection to it for the
\nfolks in Bangladesh, you know, <\/p>\n

1134
\n01:07:00,080 –> 01:07:02,920
\nthey, they need our prayers.
\nIt’s not a, it’s not an easy <\/p>\n

1135
\n01:07:02,920 –> 01:07:05,360
\ncountry at all.
\nIt’s very congested and <\/p>\n

1136
\n01:07:05,800 –> 01:07:09,000
\ndifficult and economic problems
\nare plenty. <\/p>\n

1137
\n01:07:09,760 –> 01:07:13,320
\nBut we’ve got some faithful,
\nwe’ve got some very faithful <\/p>\n

1138
\n01:07:13,320 –> 01:07:16,880
\nmembers there now.
\nAn extraordinary opportunity <\/p>\n

1139
\n01:07:16,880 –> 01:07:21,040
\nthat you had, but the time had
\nto come to an end because you <\/p>\n

1140
\n01:07:21,040 –> 01:07:25,240
\nhad a a forced retirement.
\nYou were a compulsory <\/p>\n

1141
\n01:07:25,240 –> 01:07:27,760
\nretirement, as it was.
\nYeah, well, that’s right. <\/p>\n

1142
\n01:07:27,760 –> 01:07:32,080
\nWhen, when the IMF, when you’re
\n601065, you, you have to retire.<\/p>\n

1143
\n01:07:32,080 –> 01:07:37,360
\nSo that’s it.
\nAnd I didn’t mind if it’d been a<\/p>\n

1144
\n01:07:38,200 –> 01:07:40,320
\nthat’s another stage of life,
\nyou know, that was it. <\/p>\n

1145
\n01:07:40,320 –> 01:07:46,240
\nI’d had a particularly
\nfulfilling employment which led <\/p>\n

1146
\n01:07:46,240 –> 01:07:49,920
\nall sorts of directions,
\nespecially I thought which never<\/p>\n

1147
\n01:07:50,160 –> 01:07:51,880
\nnever envisaged.
\nNone of it was planned. <\/p>\n

1148
\n01:07:51,880 –> 01:07:56,240
\nIt all happened and that’s why I
\nfeel they the the whole issue of<\/p>\n

1149
\n01:07:56,240 –> 01:08:00,040
\nGod direction is so important.
\nNot none of that was planned. <\/p>\n

1150
\n01:08:00,040 –> 01:08:03,640
\nIt was just happened happened,
\nhappened one after another and <\/p>\n

1151
\n01:08:03,800 –> 01:08:08,400
\nand that’s one that just led to
\nit just led to one spiritual <\/p>\n

1152
\n01:08:08,400 –> 01:08:11,560
\nopportunity after another.
\nThen yeah, retirement came yes. <\/p>\n

1153
\n01:08:11,560 –> 01:08:14,560
\nAnd I stayed on in the US for a
\nwhile. <\/p>\n

1154
\n01:08:15,400 –> 01:08:16,880
\nWhat brought you back to
\nAustralia? <\/p>\n

1155
\n01:08:17,359 –> 01:08:19,680
\nYes.
\nI stayed on the US because I I <\/p>\n

1156
\n01:08:19,680 –> 01:08:23,200
\nenjoyed a casual life there very
\nmuch and I knew many brother <\/p>\n

1157
\n01:08:23,200 –> 01:08:26,800
\nthan sisters and and I also did
\nquite a bit of travelling <\/p>\n

1158
\n01:08:27,840 –> 01:08:30,040
\nbecause in North America you
\nhave more chances to go to <\/p>\n

1159
\n01:08:30,040 –> 01:08:33,359
\nBritain and that more more
\neasily than Australia. <\/p>\n

1160
\n01:08:33,359 –> 01:08:36,960
\nBut but when you when the years
\nclimb, you’ve got to think of <\/p>\n

1161
\n01:08:36,960 –> 01:08:41,560
\nthe the wisdom of things.
\nAnd so I I thought it was hard <\/p>\n

1162
\n01:08:41,560 –> 01:08:43,319
\ntime to come back to my
\nhometown. <\/p>\n

1163
\n01:08:43,319 –> 01:08:49,359
\nSo that led eventually to return
\nto to Adelaide, my hometown. <\/p>\n

1164
\n01:08:49,359 –> 01:08:50,720
\nAnd then we have the full
\ncircle. <\/p>\n

1165
\n01:08:50,880 –> 01:08:52,960
\nYeah, we come.
\nWe come back to where you <\/p>\n

1166
\n01:08:52,960 –> 01:08:55,760
\nbelong.
\nAs you look back on your life, <\/p>\n

1167
\n01:08:56,359 –> 01:08:59,920
\nwhat’s a take away message?
\nWhat’s 1 of the the most <\/p>\n

1168
\n01:08:59,920 –> 01:09:02,520
\nimportant reflections you can
\nshare with us? <\/p>\n

1169
\n01:09:02,640 –> 01:09:06,080
\nI, I do think it’s a question
\nof, it’s an issue really of how <\/p>\n

1170
\n01:09:06,080 –> 01:09:08,120
\nthe Lord directs you at the
\ntime. <\/p>\n

1171
\n01:09:08,120 –> 01:09:12,080
\nYou don’t often see it that way,
\nbut in retrospect, you can see <\/p>\n

1172
\n01:09:12,080 –> 01:09:14,680
\nit.
\nYou’re meant to do this or <\/p>\n

1173
\n01:09:14,680 –> 01:09:18,240
\nyou’re meant to go to India or
\nyou’re meant to go to the US and<\/p>\n

1174
\n01:09:18,240 –> 01:09:21,399
\nit turns out to be open up
\nvistas of as you haven’t even <\/p>\n

1175
\n01:09:21,399 –> 01:09:22,560
\nthought about before.
\nReally. <\/p>\n

1176
\n01:09:23,200 –> 01:09:26,319
\nMy feeling is, I don’t know
\nwhether you agree with me on <\/p>\n

1177
\n01:09:26,319 –> 01:09:30,000
\nthis.
\nI feel that the law directs our <\/p>\n

1178
\n01:09:30,000 –> 01:09:33,040
\nlives much more than we
\nsometimes acknowledge. <\/p>\n

1179
\n01:09:33,640 –> 01:09:36,080
\nAnd, and that’s something that
\nyou see in retrospect, you see <\/p>\n

1180
\n01:09:36,080 –> 01:09:38,840
\nit more when you’re older.
\nYou can look back, you know, you<\/p>\n

1181
\n01:09:38,840 –> 01:09:41,640
\ncan see, well, that was
\nremarkable that you’re working <\/p>\n

1182
\n01:09:41,640 –> 01:09:44,760
\non Israel as a remarkable, but
\nit just all happened. <\/p>\n

1183
\n01:09:44,840 –> 01:09:50,760
\nSo I, I just have a strong
\nfeeling that that the, the, the <\/p>\n

1184
\n01:09:50,760 –> 01:09:54,160
\nlife is like a flowing stream.
\nAnd, but I think the Lord is in <\/p>\n

1185
\n01:09:54,160 –> 01:09:58,120
\nthat flowing stream that guides
\nand shapes you and leads you <\/p>\n

1186
\n01:09:58,120 –> 01:10:05,920
\nand, and opens up opportunities
\nfor you, which it turned out to <\/p>\n

1187
\n01:10:05,920 –> 01:10:09,400
\nbe evidence of, of, of
\nprovidential gardens. <\/p>\n

1188
\n01:10:11,640 –> 01:10:13,800
\nSometimes we don’t talk about
\nthat too much and we’re <\/p>\n

1189
\n01:10:14,000 –> 01:10:19,200
\nsometimes a bit disinclined even
\nto talk about, about testimonies<\/p>\n

1190
\n01:10:19,200 –> 01:10:22,400
\nand this sort of thing.
\nAnd that language is probably <\/p>\n

1191
\n01:10:22,400 –> 01:10:26,320
\nnot the best.
\nBut I think more discussion <\/p>\n

1192
\n01:10:26,320 –> 01:10:30,280
\nabout how the Lord leads us and
\nwill lead us is is very <\/p>\n

1193
\n01:10:31,120 –> 01:10:36,280
\nimportant for faithful service.
\nI don’t know whether you agree <\/p>\n

1194
\n01:10:36,280 –> 01:10:37,240
\non that.
\nThat’s. <\/p>\n

1195
\n01:10:37,680 –> 01:10:40,600
\nI think what seems evident to me
\nis you. <\/p>\n

1196
\n01:10:40,760 –> 01:10:45,040
\nYou had a great foundation in
\nterms of your outlook on life, <\/p>\n

1197
\n01:10:45,040 –> 01:10:48,720
\nyour biblical outlook, and you
\nallowed God to work in your <\/p>\n

1198
\n01:10:48,720 –> 01:10:50,600
\nlife.
\nWell, do you give that? <\/p>\n

1199
\n01:10:50,600 –> 01:10:54,560
\nYou just give the Lord thanks.
\nAnd you realise when you get <\/p>\n

1200
\n01:10:54,560 –> 01:10:56,600
\nolder it’s quite short.
\nReally. <\/p>\n

1201
\n01:10:56,600 –> 01:10:59,280
\nThat goes by quick, pretty
\nquickly. <\/p>\n

1202
\n01:10:59,280 –> 01:11:01,360
\nAnd you, yeah, want to waste
\ntime. <\/p>\n

1203
\n01:11:01,840 –> 01:11:06,000
\nWe can be real procrastinators
\nwaiting for this and waiting for<\/p>\n

1204
\n01:11:06,000 –> 01:11:08,160
\nthat.
\nSometimes the Lord is guarding <\/p>\n

1205
\n01:11:08,160 –> 01:11:11,440
\nus and we need to respond very
\nquickly. <\/p>\n

1206
\n01:11:12,440 –> 01:11:15,720
\nBecause when you essentially
\nwhen you get in beyond into well<\/p>\n

1207
\n01:11:15,720 –> 01:11:18,840
\ninto retirement years, you
\nrealize that the life is just <\/p>\n

1208
\n01:11:18,840 –> 01:11:21,560
\nlike it is a vapor.
\nIt’s just it’s just come and <\/p>\n

1209
\n01:11:21,560 –> 01:11:24,400
\ngone.
\nAnd so that that means that you <\/p>\n

1210
\n01:11:24,400 –> 01:11:28,640
\none has to be make good use of
\nthe four score years or whatever<\/p>\n

1211
\n01:11:28,640 –> 01:11:31,480
\nit might happen to be.
\nIt’s, it’s a limited, it’s quite<\/p>\n

1212
\n01:11:31,480 –> 01:11:35,000
\na limited brokerage, which means
\nthat every moment has to be <\/p>\n

1213
\n01:11:35,240 –> 01:11:39,080
\nthought through carefully as
\nmuch as we can and and and not <\/p>\n

1214
\n01:11:39,080 –> 01:11:42,160
\njust wasted.
\nRon, thanks very much for <\/p>\n

1215
\n01:11:42,160 –> 01:11:43,640
\njoining Wilderness
\nConversations. <\/p>\n

1216
\n01:11:43,840 –> 01:11:45,240
\nIt’s a pleasure.
\nIt’s a pleasure to be with you.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

For this week’s talk, we are listening to “My Journey in Faith – Ron Hicks” which…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":413,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/anchor.fm\/s\/6d15708\/podcast\/play\/107277843\/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-7-24%2F1ca7b708-c003-3532-0843-a72d441ec3ed.m4a","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"01:12:03","filesize":"114.64M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"tags":[],"series":[25],"class_list":["post-1358","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","series-gct"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t