Mark Vincent - Class 2: When God Isn’t There in Job

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

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   But of course, God is there in the book of Job. He's there at the beginning and he's there at the end, but he's not there in the middle. And that's the problem, isn't it? So we're dealing in the book of Job not with the question of God's existence. We're dealing with the question of God's silence. But clearly they're related.

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   So as far as existence was concerned, that was the issue in Esther. And it was about coincidences, wasn't it? The coincidences of his word, of history, of nature. And we look at all those and we say, I cannot believe that there is any way other than that God is there. And we've all said that. And that's why we're here.

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   There are times in discipleship when that faith is challenged. And then we need to go back to those coincidences and rediscover them for ourselves, I suppose, don't we? But there are times when we know that God is there, just as Job knew. That wasn't an issue for Job, whether God was there or not. The issue was why God didn't explain himself for what was happening to Job.

4. 1:12

   And there are times in life when we know that God is there. And there are times in life when we will experience that problem too. Because things happen and we don't understand why they happen. And we feel, perhaps, to some extent, that we're entitled to understand. And that an explanation should be provided for us. And that is the issue, of course, isn't it, that the book of Job deals with.

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   Well, let's have a look at what Job has to say, what Job wants. Of course, he wants to be well again and he wants to have his things restored to him. But more than that, I think, more than he wants those things is he wants to know why. So let's have a look at him wanting to know why. We'll start off in chapter 9.

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   And we'll just quite quickly look at a few passages. Now, as you know, the book of Job is a very difficult book. And translators have quite a lot of trouble knowing how to translate some parts of it. And it's perhaps one of the places where the authorised version makes a less clear job of it.

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   So we're going to have another version. I've just picked the NIV. Which I'm going to look at as well as having a look at the AV. Just to give us a bit more clarity on what actually Job is saying. Let's have a look at verse 32 of chapter 9. So what we get a sense of here is what Job wants.

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   He knows it can't be, but he wants it nevertheless. And what he wants is to meet God in court. And to lay out his case. And for God to lay out his case. Now, of course, that doesn't happen. And we can't take God to court.

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   But we can, perhaps, understand how Job feels in his frustration. Let's just, just to make that point. That's in verse 32. When he says, He is not a man as I am, that I should answer him. That we should come together in judgment. And NIV there. He is not a man like me, that I might answer him.

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    That we might confront each other in court. And, of course, that's what coming together in judgment means in modern terms. And, in fact, this is just one example of a theme that runs through Job's speeches.

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    In which he uses forensic language. The language of the courtroom. The language of justice and judgment. Now, why does he use that language? Well, he uses it because that was part of his everyday experience. He was the greatest of the children of the East, after all. And he sat in the city gate as judge.

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    And he was the sort of person that if you had a problem and there was no way that seemingly it could be resolved, you would go to him. And he would know. Because that was the sort of person he was. And the evidence for that comes out in his speeches. So he was used to this principle of judgment and of the courtroom setting.

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    And so his language is riddled with that. And I suppose, as someone who works in investment, I might tend to see things in that language. And you might see it in the language of what you do. And of what your sphere is. And that's a perfectly natural thing for humans to do. Because it doesn't make it right, does it?

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    But it does make it natural and understandable. So Job feels that he's got his case. And his case is that he's not done anything wrong. And he wants the opportunity to say that. And he wants God to listen to that. And he wants to listen to what God's got to say in response.

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    Let's have a look at the next passage, chapter 10 and verse 2. And this is what he's going to say to God, if only he were to have this opportunity to speak to God and to challenge God about what's happened. I will say unto God, do not condemn me. Show me wherefore thou contendest with me.

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    Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked? Hast thou eyes of flesh, or seest thou as man seeth? Verse 6. That thou inquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin. Thou knowest that I am not wicked, and there is none that can deliver out of thine hand.

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    Verse 9. Remember, I beseech thee that thou hast made me as the clay. And wilt thou bring me unto dust again? Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese? So this then is his contention, isn't it, to God. He feels that he's been treated unjustly. It can't make any sense to him what God is doing here.

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    Let's go over to 13. Chapter 13. Verse 3. Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God. You can hear the language again. There, can't you? And the AV, the NIV gives it like this. But I desire to speak to the Almighty, and to argue my case with God.

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    And verse 15. Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him, but I will maintain mine own ways before him. So, he's prepared to die. And he knows that God has that power over him. And yet, he'll die knowing that he was a righteous man. Yet will I maintain my ways before him.

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    And you can start to see something of what the problem is here then, can't you? Verse 20. He asks God to lay off him, if you like, so that he can speak. Verse 21. And then he goes on to make his case. Verse 26. For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest me to possess the iniquities of my youth.

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    Again, as though God is writing by what he's done. God is implicitly, Job thinks, writing an accusation against Job. And it's again the same language of the courtroom that he's using.

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    Chapter 23. Chapter 23. Again, the NIV. I would state my case before him, and fill my mouth with arguments. And 24 in the first verse. I'll just read the NIV here. Why does the Almighty not set times for judgment? Why must those who know him look in vain for such days? Now, have you ever felt like that?

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    Have you ever felt that you wanted to have that face-to-face conversation with God? To understand what was going on? Because you can't make head nor tail of it. Well, I expect in some degree or other, most of us have felt like that. Now, is it wrong to feel it? That's quite an interesting question, isn't it?

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    Well, it's better not to feel it, of course. It's better to always have faith. And never to doubt. Well, of course, that's the theory, and we know that it's the case. We know that's how it should be. And we also know that that isn't how it is. Too often. And we're trying to make that better in our discipleship.

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    So, the question isn't, is Job wrong to feel it? Because it would be better if he didn't. But if he does feel it, then he is right to say.

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    And later on in the book, in chapter 40, he learns that he was wrong to say it. And presumably, he'll try not to say it again. And hopefully, we would do the same. And that point, I think, is made very clear to us in the Scriptures. And I think we can learn it especially powerfully from the book of Psalms.

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    In which all kinds of doubts and questions about God, about his existence, about what he's doing in the world. All kinds of questions are raised. And these are brought to God in prayer. And the psalmist explains how they feel. Just as Job here is saying what the problem is. So, yes, it would be better not to feel it.

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    But if we feel it, it's best to be honest. And we can be honest with God. But we must do that in a context of faith.

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    We must express what we do believe positively about him. As well as telling him what the problem is. And that's exactly what the Psalms do. And that's what Job does as well. Because Job says lots of faithful and wonderful things in his speeches that we would all say amen to. About the greatness and the righteousness of God.

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    And he's absolutely right in those things that he says. But as we read through his speeches. Those things. And this is interesting how our psychology works. How the human mind works when it's put under pressure. Those things perhaps start to become less. And what starts to become more is Job's assertion that he does have a case.

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    And that he is right to be grieved. And that he does deserve to have an explanation from God. And he, as it were, backs himself into a corner. And so he ends up, I think, at the end of his speech. He's saying things that he never would have said at the beginning. And we've all, I expect, experienced that.

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    Whether in debate with other people. Or whether in our own thinking. As we struggle with issues in life. And it's a challenge. One final passage of Job before we come to God's answer. And that's in 31. And it's right at the end of his speech. And this is very important, isn't it? So Job's building to this great climax.

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    So what is the climax after all this talking? Well, there it is at the end of 31. Verse 35. Now this whole chapter has been a testimony to Job's innocence. And again, you can see the problem here. That's what Job finishes up with. And so in a sense, we can say, that's what's most important to him.

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    Because that's what you would do, isn't it? If you were presenting your case in court. You know, you leave your best things. Because you want to leave those in the mind of the jury, I suppose.

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    And that's what Job saves for the end. He saves his chapter long. I think it might be even longer than a chapter. Declaration of Innocence. And verse 35. Now he's wrapping up. Oh, that one would hear me. Behold, my desire is that the Almighty would answer me. And that mine adversary had written a book.

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    Put it down on paper. Just what the problem is. Surely I would take it upon my shoulder and bind it as a crown unto me. So Job is so confident that he's not done anything wrong. That he would take God's accusation and wear it on his head like a crown. And he might look a bit silly doing that.

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    But you see how powerful it is. As an expression, as a testament to what he conceives to be his innocence. Verse 37. Is that how we approach God? If my land cry against me or that the furrows likewise thereof complain. If I have eaten the fruits thereof without money or have caused the owners thereof to lose their life.

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    Let thistles grow instead of wheat. And let cockle instead of barley. The words of Job are ended. So he's saying, and if I have done something wrong. And if this my declaration of innocence isn't the case. Then let figs bear thorns and grapes thistles. Effectively. And that's Job. That's him through. And this is from the most righteous man in the world at that time.

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    And what we've brought out, or what I've tried to argue as being Job's position. Doesn't deny any of what we're told about what a righteous man he was.

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    And yet, what his suffering has brought to the surface. Is that there are certain areas in which he's got things a bit out of perspective. And it's only by putting this great pressure upon him that God has brought this to the surface.

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    And Job realizes that, of course, when he says, as we read in chapter 40. I mean, how he changes his tune, doesn't he? In chapter 40 and verse 3. Then Job answered the Lord and said, Behold, I'm vile. What shall I answer thee? I will lay my hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken, but I will not answer.

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    Yea, twice, but I will proceed no further. I've said too much already. He says, I realize now. And I'll be quiet. In God's presence. And I'll listen to God. Because God is there. And he is speaking. And so I'll stop talking. Now.

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    So the very, his very repentance indicates that there was a problem. And I've suggested what, some of what I think the problem, the problem was. So what is God's answer then, when God finally does speak to Job?

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    God's answer, of course, isn't an answer, is it? God's answer is that he is not answerable to Job. Or to any of us. And that makes him greater, doesn't it? God isn't at our beck and call to answer us. When, you know, in that way, when we summons him.

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    He is a great God. And God's answer then is an answer. But not in any way the sort of answer that Job expected. Because what's happened is that because of his immense suffering. And of course, I'm sure many of us feel that had we been in that situation. We would have responded in a way that was far inferior to what Job did.

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    So that's not a question. But what has happened is that Job has been increasingly centered upon himself and his own problem. And what God does, of course, is to say, forget your problem. Let's have a look at what's going on all the way around everywhere else in the world. And what do you understand about that, Job?

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    Do you have even the first idea of the smallest portion of that? And of course, that's a rather embarrassing question, isn't it? Because he doesn't. And neither do we. And neither does the greatest scientist in the world. Because they only know an incredible amount about that much of the entire 360 degrees of what there is in the world.

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    That's how great God is. And so for Job then, it's about relativizing himself and God, isn't it? And God is so big, in fact, that sometimes we miss him because he's so big. And God's answer is to point out how big he is. And what he does then is he takes Job effectively on a whistle-stop tour of nature and the universe, doesn't he?

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    Job has concentrated increasingly on his own innocence, which may or may not be right. And in fact, it is right relative to human beings. It is right that he was a righteous man. But it's not relative to human beings that we're interested in. We're interested in Job and ourselves relative to God.

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    And Job ought to, and we ought to, concentrate on him, on his righteousness and on his greatness. We can't help but be obsessed by ourselves, can we? Because we can't imagine the world without our being in it, you know, either. And we wake up in the morning, the first thing we think about is ourselves.

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    And this is something we're trying to counteract in our discipleship, to put God where he belongs, to make him as massive and infinite as he is. And so God points out to Job in chapter 30, crosses 38 and 39, where God issues his first speech. God points out to him his non-participation in creation.

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    And his complete inability to manage the things in the world that God manages. And he points out to him a series of animals. Animals which are apparently useless and mysterious as far as Job is concerned. And yet which take their place in creation. Let's just have a look at some of these animal references in chapter 39, verse 1.

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    Knows thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? And you can imagine Job saying, look, I didn't want to talk with God about the wild goats of the rock. I wanted to talk about my problem. Well, that says it all, doesn't it? About human nature and self-centeredness. And God is saying, it's precisely the wild goats of the rock that we need to talk about.

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    And that's not all. Verse 5. Who hath sent out the wild ass free? Or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass? Verse 9. Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee or abide by thy crib? Verse 13. Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? Or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?

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    Verse 19. Hast thou given the horse strength? Hast thou clothed his neck with thunder? Verse 26. Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom and stretch her wings toward the south? Verse 27. When doth the eagle mount up at thy command and make her nest on high? And you can imagine God asking each one of those questions individually.

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    And Job having to look down and say, nope. And then the next question. It's the same answer. And the next question. And God doesn't stop the questions. The questions come and they come and they come. And the answer is the same to every single one of them. Job doesn't have a clue. And neither do we.

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    See, it's very interesting. To look at what animals they are that God asks Job about. See, he doesn't ask Job about sheep. Why doesn't he ask about sheep? He doesn't ask about sheep because Job had 7,000 of them. So Job knew about sheep. He asks about the unicorn. And God doesn't ask Job about camels because he had 3,000 of those.

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    And so he talks about the wild goats of the rock instead. And he doesn't ask him about oxen because Job had 500 yoke of them. So he doesn't talk about the domesticated animals. He talks about the wild and the raw. The things that Job doesn't understand. That seem meaningless. And obscure. Mysterious. And without purpose.

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    As far as Job is concerned. And that's just how his own suffering appears to him, isn't it? Without purpose. Mysterious. Unfathomable. Pointless. But God is no more entitled, or obliged, I should say. God is no more obliged to give Job an explanation of his own suffering. Than he is to give Job an explanation of the wild goats of the rocks.

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    Or the unicorn. And that is precisely the point. God isn't obliged to give us explanations about anything. God is to be trusted to know what he is doing in the world. And if God wants a unicorn or a wild goat of the rock, then he is entitled to have one. God.

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    And this is one of the incredible things. If ever you watch a nature program, isn't it? And you look at some of these things in nature. And it is just like that, isn't it? What is the point of that? That is so incredible. No one would ever, no human would ever have thought of having one of those.

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    And yet there it is. And it doesn't make any sense to us. But it makes sense to God. What sense it makes, it makes to him. And it's that that matters. Not what sense it makes to us. And so the question of faith then is about whether God can be trusted to do things that make sense to him in our lives.

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    And so after that incredible tour of God's world and Job's ignorance of it, God challenges Job in chapter 40 as we've read. Verse 2. Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it. And now God uses the language of the courtroom for himself, doesn't he?

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    Let him who accuses God answer him. So now is your opportunity, Job. What have you got to say? And Job, of course, has learnt his lesson, as we've already said. And he puts his hand upon his mouth. And he realises that despite all that innocence that he thought he had, and that great testimony that he was going to bind on his head like a crown, he realises that in fact he is vile.

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    And that he has nothing to answer God. And that God is the one who has something to say. So does God stop there? Does God say, well, okay then, Job, you've learnt the lesson. No, he doesn't stop there. He goes again. And God speaks a second time now, as we read in verse 6.

66. 27:42

    So Job has finished speaking, but God has not. God has yet more to say. Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man. I will demand of thee and declare thou unto me. And this is verbally God is, as it were, shaking Job now, isn't he?

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    And making sure this point has gone home. And it seems to me this is sarcastic on God's part. Gird up thy loins now like a man. I mean, that's great, isn't it? Like Job's going to have any chance in this debate with God, whether his loins are girded or whether they're not. And a man talking to God about these matters?

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    Like a man. You know, gird up thy loins now like a man. What can a man say? What can a woman say to such a great God but to listen? Verse 8. Will thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me that thou mayest be righteous? So which comes first then? Our righteousness or God's?

69. 28:52

    And then God goes on, of course, to talk about Behemoth and Leviathan. And that raises other questions, doesn't it? Which we don't really have time to go into. Except to say that what's happening then now in the two speeches of God is in the first speech what we had was a whistle-stop tour.

70. 29:21

    Wasn't it like a landscape of the great multitude of God's works which God understands even though we don't? Which set us in our context and help us see ourselves as we are in his sight.

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    And then in the second speech, God now chooses two and he focuses in on them in great detail. And there we get Behemoth and Leviathan. And what are they? Well, of course, Hippopotamus, the crocodile.

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    But there's a mixing here of language, I think. And I think there's a deliberate mixing where God uses mythological language of the times. Language of mythological creatures that people believed in in those days. And that's why some of the references, if you look at them closely, they do seem to be a bit over the top, don't they, for a crocodile and for other animals that we know of.

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    These seem to be something more than, don't they, natural phenomena that we know. And the point is that it's that we know and the fact is that we don't know and that God does. So God just uses the ideas that were out there at the times. What do you understand about that? You don't have a clue.

74. 30:53

    You don't know whether that thing exists or whether it doesn't. You don't know. And there's so much that we don't know which makes God all the greater. And it's just like, I mean, I'm inclined to see it in a similar way to the way in which the Bible uses the language of the day about demons and so forth.

75. 31:21

    So God talks about these incredible creatures of which Job has no experience. And Job has nothing to add on this matter, nothing to add at all. And the point then is that these things, these creatures, this behemoth and this leviathan become, as it were, a symbol of Job's suffering. Innocent suffering, from our point of view, is a hippopotamus or a crocodile or a mythological creature.

76. 32:03

    It doesn't make any sense to us. And nor should we necessarily expect it to. Although we might learn from it. And, of course, that's our responsibility to see if we can. And that's why there's a sort of paradox about Job, isn't there? Because there's a paradox in that, in one sense it says, innocent suffering can happen and God isn't entitled to give us an explanation and God knows what he's doing.

77. 32:32

    And in another sense, the book of Job says, well, actually it wasn't innocent suffering because Job did have a problem, an attitude problem, that needed to be resolved. And the suffering actually brought that to light. And so the suffering did have a purpose. It wasn't a capricious act, a random act on God's part.

78. 32:50

    It did have a purpose and Job learned from it incredibly. Job would never have said, I am vile, what shall I answer thee? At the beginning of the book. And yet at the end, he would. And so he's grown, hasn't he? And he becomes even more a spiritual giant than he was at the beginning of the book as the greatest of the children of the East.

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    And this, in some small way and in some small measure, is a path that each of us must tread. that as events of all kinds take place in our lives, that we, in our walk and in our discipleship, give God space to work and allow him to know what he is doing in the world that he has created and in the disciples and in the sons and in the daughters that he is still very much in the process of creating ready for his kingdom.