Dave Pogson - Atonement - Class 3

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:00

   OK, it’s been a month, but I’m not going to go back over much, OK? And in fact, nothing. We’ve got up the point we’re looking at Genesis chapter 3. OK? Instead of taking a giant step forward, which they could have done under trial, they took a giant step backwards. Simple as that. OK, And the serpent deceived the woman, but she disbelieved God and believed the serpent. Then the woman deceived the man and he hearkened the voice of his wife, and he didn’t hearken under God. So fundamentally, the first problem in sin is unbelief. Unbelief has a disorientating effect upon the mind. It’s called a corrupt state of mind. And this leaves you very vulnerable to transgressing God’s law.

2. 0:53

   OK, now young people, if you’ve got a baby, I’ve got you tonight. You’ve been hiding. I’ve got you. Get on here. He’s supposed to be an expert on all this. He’s right up to clause 612 to 16 at the moment in the statement of faith. You know, it’s a pretty heavy hill, you know. So if I don’t know the answer to any of your questions, I’ll get him to answer them for us.

3. 1:17

   So you’re let off tonight, Chairman, You don’t have to answer the questions. OK, so that was the. The the the whole thing. And how that they then knew they were naked. That indicated A tremendous physiological change had taken place. Physiological means function. It doesn’t mean a change of nature. That means a change in the function of our bodies, OK. So that their propensities obviously were awakened to a degree which they didn’t have before, OK, So they knew they’re naked.

4. 1:49

   They’re very embarrassed about it, as well as the shame and the fear and everything that all comes, comes tumbling back into the mind after a transgression. I don’t have to explain that we’re all experienced that we’re, we’re really experts in sin. We’re, we’re not experts in His Holiness, OK? We’re really experts in sinners.

5. 2:11

   That’s amazing how much it’s blinded us. So and that becomes a subject. So the next point is. No problems with that. Alan didn’t have any problems, so everything’s right. So so the. Next thing is to recognise what we inherit from Adam, from Eve as Adam and Eve, what we inherit and the proposition.

6. 2:39

   And everything I’m putting to you is propositions on proving very little and going to passages. I’m really only giving you a feel for this. You see, Alan’s going to take you through Romans chapters 1 to 8. I reckon you’ll get to about chapter 3. Hope he doesn’t get any further than that. He’ll give you all the proofs and details when he does Romans one to three.

7. 2:58

   OK, so we’re just this is a more an appreciation study of the atonement. Give some suggestions to you don’t have to accept them. OK. I believe they’re consistent with The Pioneers, pioneer writings, but maybe I’m disappointed too, too. Anyway, So what came from Adam and Eve and what we all inherit is these inflamed lust, the lust for flesh, the lust for the and the pride of life. OK, very necessary things for our existence. Unfortunately, they’re too strong. They too often get us into big trouble. OK.

8. 3:39

   And it’s we see from Romans 5, it’s produced a prop. So right now we’re going to have a look at Romans 512 and 18 and 9 by one man. And the one man of course is Adam and Eve by one man, what we inherit from Adam. So we’re looking at Romans chapter 5.

9. 4:05

   And now the Carter says about Romans chapter 5. He says the sections of Romans chapter 321 to 31, which we’re going to look at next night, and Romans 512 to 21. So we’re glued to 12 and 21. We are, he says we believe, the most important in the whole of the Scriptures on the subject.

10. 4:45

    They might well be the touchstone by which to test every theory, the best exposition of the subject and the truth literature is to be found in our judgement in the pamphlet The Blood of Christ. OK, so Brother Carter’s building his exposition of Romans, and I’m doing a size pitch at this stage. On on the blood of Christ, OK, and when you get round to studying the blood of Christ, a number, every paragraph writes through the book.

11. 5:27

    So and make sure you all got it the same. So when you crisscross backwards and forwards in your discussion, you’ll know what page and what paragraph you’re looking at. That’s the subject for you to do now this. Little Book was written three years before I was born, OK, But it’s interesting to note that it’s prefaced by none other than CC Walker, OK, who took over from Brother Roberts and the Christendorphian Magazine. And he regarded this book as if you read the preface, right? You read the preface, Brother CC Walker, who was a master in Greek and Hebrew, OK.

12. 6:11

    He regarded this exposition even though in little places he disagrees with brother Thomas and brother Robertson little things OK, he regards this book as an outstanding exposition. It’s actually one of the very first verse part from the the the prophet Isaiah written by brother Robertson, brother Assisi Walker. This is the real first verse by verse exposition we have. It’s a pistol of the Romans.

13. 6:39

    We highly recommend it. All right, mines. I don’t use books. I tend to abuse them, as you can see, but they’re getting expensive these days. I don’t suggest you do that, but just a little by the way, see that plastic cover on there that was put on? It was a good idea to put a plastic cover on that was put on and and there’s the old original paper that stuck on it.

14. 7:05

    Was stuck on by my only daughter when she was 13 years of age, and it’s lasted all that time. It’s incredible. Yeah. What I was really leading up to was I’ve read it really many times. And today I was reading through Romans chapter 5. It was just like reading it as if I’d never read it before.

15. 7:27

    Doesn’t matter how often you read the Epistle of the Romans. It’s just that refreshing and that outstanding. OK. However, you’ve got to learn to appreciate Brother Carter and his works. That’s just a commercial for Brother Carter’s book on the Epistle of the Romans. OK Highly recommend it. OK, I was listening to Johnny Martin 20 years ago on some tapes on his study class on Romans, and he was recommending Brother Carter’s book. And then a couple of weeks later, I’ve got this young brother, must have been about 35. I won’t mention names, he said.

16. 8:07

    Well, I’ve read this brother card a bit. And he says, I find a very ordinary poor old pro John Martin had to splatter about economy of words he didn’t like to say to the brother. You idiot, you just don’t appreciate what you’re reading. OK. And you can do that. You can read it and not appreciate it, but I look up every word you know, and I work directly from the interlinears on Greek, and I can tell by what I read out of the Greek and so on that Brother Carter’s investigated every word and every idea.

17. 8:39

    He’d read every book on the subject in and out of the truth. And what you’ve got in that book is an absolute crystallization of the thought flow, not verse by verse, abstract thought flow of the argument. OK, end of commercial. So. Romans chapter 5 tells us what we inherit from matter. OK, ignoring verses 1 to 11, which are very important on the atonement.

18. 9:09

    We’ve not come back to that, OK Verses 1 to 11 deal with the blessings of justification. How do I know that? Because right in the front. Oh, here I go again in the front of this book. It gives you a complete breakup of the whole epistle of the Romans. OK. And before you even start studying, you go right through the Bible and just put the headings in on each section on Romans.

19. 9:36

    All right, before I even try marking up Romans. You got a lot of study to do before you. Back up round, it’s good to have the headings so you know what area you’re in at any time. OK, it’s all in there and the sub break UPS in it and it tells you in the in the index where what pages the sub break UPS are on.

20. 9:56

    Fantastic little book. On Romans, OK, so Wonder 11 deals with the blessings of justification, and that flows on to verse 12 to 20 to the end of the chapter. Condemnation and righteousness coming through two federal heads. Condemnation and righteousness coming through two federal heads. And we’re particularly interested in this particular federal head here. Adam and Eve, who are one fresh, they’re one. They’re Adam.

21. 10:33

    From this federal head, what we’ve got from that particular man. And inevitably we’ve got to look at when we look at the verses, we’ve got to look at what we also inherit from Jesus Christ. OK, so it’s time to put your thinking caps on. It’s time to concentrate despite the noise, despite the warmth, despite the fans.

22. 10:57

    OK, you’ve got to read carefully what’s been. Put So we go to verse 12 of Romans 5. OK, we have to go to a Medical Center tomorrow morning and I couldn’t bring my beef case. I couldn’t bring my interlinear with you to read this in Greek for you, so you’re lucky I couldn’t fit it in. So we’ll have to stick to the authorized version. Aren’t you lucky?

23. 11:26

    Great. Won’t get bored with technical detail, right? First 12 Wherefore, as by one man, sin entered into the world and death by sin. That was our previous chart. OK, Adam and Eve introduced sin into the world and death by sin. But then it goes on and says and so death passed upon all men. In the Greek it’s passed through to all men. So here it is.

24. 12:04

    They introduced sin and death and it passed through to all men. They became mortal and they became self tempters. They became sinners, OK, rightly understood. They became sinners reading on in verse 12. And so death passed upon all men. For that, all have seen. And there’s a lot of contention on that last phrase.

25. 12:40

    For that all have seen. You notice in the margin against little 6 has got or in whom all have sinned. OK, I can well assure you that it’s not in the original. It can’t be justified. Brother Carter in the indie book points it out and he’s got a notation and help us Israel, where Brother Thomas uses it as in whom all have sinned.

26. 13:14

    He puts a notation down there that can’t be sustained, the Greek, and that’s perfectly correct. See that bit in whom in the margin? You ought to cross it out because it’s the Greek word for in is EN. Our word is IN. The Greek is EN, OK, and there’s no EN there. OK in the Greek. It’s actually upon.

27. 13:39

    It’s actually EPI upon the word for that is upon her for that All have seen is actually a very good translation to help you. It can be rendered for as much as All have seen or. Upon which all have seen because Adam passed on death and and he caused sin to enter the world and passed on those inflamed entities and mortality every man’s sin except for one blessed exception. That’s in the past tense.

28. 14:22

    You wonder why is in the past it would have been simplified. He said well by 1. Man sin in the world, death by sin, and so death. Passed upon all. That all men’s sin that would have been a lot simpler to put that, but he’s he’s simply contracting it into actual fact. I mean, what he’s saying is by one man seeing into the world all right, the source of it, the transgression and the death that goes with it. It all came in all comes under this sin and death. OK by one man that came into the world all right and why? Well, it’s obvious why he’s just got to look back for 4000 years. Everyone’s sin.

29. 15:11

    In other words, they had transgressed, they had deformed their bodies, they passed on that to their children, and they would inevitably be transgressors of more or less some. Of the outs, out and out criminals, others would be very righteous men, who however, from time to time fail. And that’s just a fact of history, isn’t it? OK, so to you, that’s the meaning of the expression for that.

30. 15:43

    All have sinned. Can you see the point of why I’m making that? Probably not. I’ve got that many years of background and argument on that, and I’m probably talking to myself a lot. Phil would understand. OK, he’s getting, he’s getting a bit old himself. Yeah, so. So, so, So what? It’s not saying, however, all right, what it’s not saying the Catholic Church says that last phrase for that all that sin should be in whom?

31. 16:19

    All sin, that when Adam sinned, we all sinned. And that’s the Catholic Church teaching. When Adam’s sinned, we all sinned. OK, to a lesser extent, that’s even coming to the Christendorphian body. You’ll find some believing that when Adam’s sin and human nature fell, it came under condemnation therefore. All. Men, just because they’re Adam’s fallen nature, are alienated from God just because they’ve got fallen human nature.

32. 16:59

    And they say that’s why babies die. Babies die because even though they haven’t had a chance to transgress, all right, they’ve inherited Adam. ‘S guilt, OK, and that’s why the Catholic Church baptized little babies as soon as possible because of the baptism of the baby. They get rid of this inherited guilt. And this is the verse they’re using, OK They get rid of the inherited guilt.

33. 17:24

    You can you follow that? That’s what they believe, OK. And and that’s why you got to rush out and get them sprinkled and everything and stops them, actually stops them actually going to purgatory. If you can get them sprinkled early enough. When they drop dead on you, they go straight to heaven like a rocker.

34. 17:43

    They got wings and everything, OK. And and that’s, that’s what it’s all about. And by, you know, that’s their baptism. That’s to get rid of your inherited guilt from Adam in some forms. We’ve had that problem with JJ Andrewism, who talked about a legal condemnation which he believed was was removed at baptism.

35. 18:07

    And until that legal condemnation you’d inherited from Adam was removed by baptism, you couldn’t be raised from the dead once you died. So he didn’t. He believed. Baptism was essential for resurrection, whether you’re going to be saved or not. OK. But here that theory is built upon the idea of inheriting something that we didn’t inherit from Adam. This is where your nephew.

36. 18:35

    Was down the front writing down. Now what was that again? What didn’t we inherit from Adam? We and I said we didn’t inherit the guilt. The guilt. He said he’d write this down in big pencil. You didn’t inherit the guilt. Now what did we inherit? We inherited sin, proudness and more time. Sin and more time.

37. 18:53

    You know, this one I thought, didn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. He looks nothing like. You but he’s he’s mother. Mother’s a Greek, isn’t he? I’d never met his mother. I met you. Met his dad. Has she got Greek blood in her? I say he’s got this Roman facet. He’s really definite features dark black hair, and he’s sitting down and acting like an idiot. And he’s a school teacher, you know? How old is he?

38. 19:22

    21. I thought he was about 17. He had me fool. But what he was doing was. He was thinking of the 15 year olds at the back. He was deliberately asking these questions so that they get the message repeated about 6 times. You see, he’s a school teacher and he knew I was just passing over it too quickly and he wasn’t going to let me get by. He was right on this subject right at this time, right on that verse, OK.

39. 19:49

    And boy, he. He looks nothing like you or me. You and I got Irish round faces, he’s got this Roman profile and he’s a beautiful reader that really had me rattled. You could get and read this chapter perfectly. OK, so then. Brother Carter points out that’s a it’s an incomplete statement. It’s 12, he said.

40. 20:19

    To get the complete statement, he says verse 12 to 21 are dealing with two fathers or federal heads, 2 Adams 2 begetters for the race. OK. And from one father we inherit this, and from another father we inherit that. And that’s the basic argument. So he says from Adam we’ve inherited death and we’ve inherited sin proneness. Consequently, we all sin at some stage or other, more or less in verse 12.

41. 20:53

    And he says, but then you should be able to run a line straight up to the second-half of verse 18. You know, I don’t think you can see from there, but I’ve got in blue verse 12 marked and then I got a line running up to the bottom half of verse 18. So that I know that’s the basic complete statement of this section.

42. 21:16

    So the place basic complete statement is from Adam we inherit sin, proneness and death and consequently we all transgressed sooner or later. However, verse 18 it’s repeated. Therefore, as by the offence of 1 judgement came on all men to condemnation, Even so by the righteousness of one another. Adam. Right. The free gift is come upon all men unto justification or righteousness of life, unto righteousness of life.

43. 21:54

    So the contrast you get sin and death through one atom, you get righteousness and life through another atom. That’s the basic contrast. Can you follow that? OK. Now that’s repeated over and over again in all those verses in between. Sure there’s variations, but it just over and over and for the more advanced student, we just would comment.

44. 22:26

    You notice verse 30 into the end of verse seventeens all. In hyphenated, it’s in it’s, it’s in brackets. OK, which tells you you should read verse 12, then verse 18. Anyway, so in this hyphenated thing, we get all these comments and we could spend all night on this. However, some may have a trouble with verse 14 and 13 and 14.

45. 22:55

    We just would give an opinion on it. It says for and it’s going to prove that death, sin and death, the law of sin and death. But here it’s just simply called death. But we know in Romans 8 it’s called a law of sin and death. That is the law of sin. Proudness and death is 1 physiological law.

46. 23:19

    For unto the he says, for unto the law that is the law of Moses. Transgression was in the world, but transgression is not imputed where there is no law.

47. 23:32

    Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned. After the similitude of Adam’s transgression, there’s a figure of him that was to come. He’s a figure of the second Adam. Why was he a figure? Because Adam did certain things and his children suffered the consequences. Christ did certain things, and his children got the benefit of the consequences of His righteous conduct.

48. 23:59

    OK, however. What’s it mean then that under the law, sin wasn’t in the world because sin transgression wasn’t in the world. And we know it was punished. We know there are laws. We know that Noah’s died, everyone was destroyed because they had corrupted God’s way on the earth. We know Sodom and Gomorrah and so on. This is all in Brother Kyle’s book. OK?

49. 24:23

    We know that they were punished, but what wasn’t in existence was a law that carried the death sentence, a law which had to be kept. Perfectly or you would be put to death. And that was the case in the law in Eden. There was no three guys and then you’re out. OK, as soon as they sinned once death. The Law of Moses was the same, not for every sin, but for a lot of sins, OK, for the major besetting sins like adultery and so on and so on.

50. 25:04

    There was no second God. There was no forgiveness. OK, you’re out. And the big thing about the Law of Moses is cursed is everyone that continued. Not in all things that are written in the Law. To do that, you know how now Paul picks that up in Galatians and says you idiots fancy trying to get salvation by law?

51. 25:29

    You have to keep the whole law perfectly all your life. You can’t miss once, but you’re out now. That was exactly the same in the case of Adam and Eve’s law, even though it was just a single law. Now, there were laws in between those two periods, OK, but they are laws which didn’t require you, didn’t have attached to them mistakes and things.

52. 25:53

    That you couldn’t be forgiven for you they could be forgiven for. Abraham made plenty mistake. Jacob made a whole. Heap of them right But they were righteous men. Their general direction of life was righteous. They weren’t they weren’t suffering the consequences of Adamic law or Mosaic law. OK. And they were receiving the benefit of a the union of severity against sin.

53. 26:18

    And. And the goodness of God towards sin and forgiveness, They were getting the mix the same as you and I get the mix in Christ, OK? And that was more or less the same between Eden and the law of Moses. So we suggest you that’s what’s meant. And that’s what also is meant by even those who had not sinned after similitude of Adam’s transgression.

54. 26:43

    OK. That could have two meanings. That rather, Carter suggested, means that, well, they couldn’t seem like Adam because they weren’t in the Garden of Eden and they didn’t have his law. They’re out of the garden. It was a completely different situation. So they couldn’t seem exactly like he did in an ideal sense, lightly disbelieving God. OK was a completely different situation. So they wouldn’t sin in exactly the same way, nor had they reached the law of Moses time where they only. Had to sin once and they the whole curse of the law came on it.

55. 27:15

    They weren’t in that situation, but it’s also you got to remember that there are a lot of very righteous. Men in that period, all right. Every one of them was sinners by some degree, but there was Noah, he walk with God. There was Enoch, he walk with God. And it says in Hebrews, God was well pleased with them.

56. 27:37

    Well pleased. OK, now they definitely and and, and Abel was a righteous man. He’s commanded in Hebrews 11. If you want to get all these people who hadn’t sinned after submitted to Adam’s transgression, have a look at Hebrews 11. OK, that’ll give you a good example. They hadn’t sinned like Adam and sinned OK. Nevertheless, they died there, and that’s his point. Therefore, death, sin and death is an inheritance. From Adam and Eve got the message. And he just goes on and keeps repeating all that just very quickly.

57. 28:25

    This is all just for Alan’s sake, so he won’t get tied up when he gets to chapter 5. OK, so it says verse 15. If I, if you don’t follow this, I’m doing very quickly, all for Alan’s sake. Don’t let it worry. Verse 15 says not as the offence, Adam’s offence. So is the free gift. We get a free gift.

58. 28:45

    From Christ we get that, we get the benefit of a free gift from Christ’s work. Now we get the disability from Adam’s offence. For if through the offence of one one man Adam many be dead, much more the grace of God and the gift of grace by grace she is by one man Jesus Christ hath abounded many so and so he’s just repeating the same.

59. 29:16

    He says he’s basically saying by Adam’s offence, OK, he’s saying he says look at the offence and its consequences. This versus saying look at the consequences, but then look at Christ’s great righteous work that led to life. Look at the benefits of that. He said you can’t compare them. The disabilities you get from Adam and not to be compared with the benefits you get from Christ.

60. 29:46

    So don’t start whinging about what Adam did, OK? Start whinging about that. Because though we innocently inherit the disabilities from Adam, we undeservedly inherit tremendous benefits. That write out why all that from Christ? That’s his argument. OK, that’s the basic argument. He repeats it again. He says in verse 16, that’s a matter of quantity.

61. 30:21

    Adam made one sin, we got a disability. But when Christ has talked about this gift that’s talked about the benefits of Christ’s righteous life. All right, that’s talking about that as a gift to us. Christ is a gift. The second Adam’s a gift and the benefits that flow for him is a gift.

62. 30:42

    Not as it were verse 16, not as it was by one that sins. So is the gift for judgement was by one sin, one sin only. Then we got judgement to condemnation, but the free gift that is Christ, the gift of giving us Christ and making him a great sacrifice and us getting all these benefits of being made righteous and given the opportunity of eternal life.

63. 31:09

    What are they do? Well, it’s of many offences unto justification and sin. Once you’ve got certain disabilities, but what did you do and go and do or for? For that all of sin. You’ve got thousands of sins, and what’s the benefit? In Christ? They can all be forgiven. Not one sin. OK, so we got a disability through Adam’s one sin.

64. 31:38

    OK, But in Christ the gifts that flow from his righteous work is the covering of the great. Multitude of sins. So don’t ever winch, OK, We’re doing all right. Don’t ever win. God’s not unjust, OK? He’s more than more than just, OK, more than just. He doesn’t punish us according to our sins, so he presses total buttons, verse 17 for it. By one man’s offence, death reigned by that one much more. They which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness, and they’ll reign in life. By one one another Adam, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as by the offence of 1 judgement, 1 judgement came on all men under condemnation, Even so by the righteousness of one which he had, Adam made one sin.

65. 32:41

    We got into trouble. Christ’s righteousness, this one righteousness was something they had to sustain for 33 1/2 years. He had to be perfectly righteous for 33 1/2 years and then be obedient unto death. And we get a tremendous benefit from that. He was righteous and he got the he got the gift of life, but he was given it in a way that he could share it with lesser men and women and they share his righteousness and they’re going to share his eternal life.

66. 33:21

    Is the idea of that verse and verse 19 is very important for the young people, whereas by one man’s distance many were made sinners, the. Word. Made is katha steamy and it means by constitution you’re a Sinner. You may never have sinned, but by makeup you are a Sinner. Given the opportunity and certain circumstances, your tendency is to sin.

67. 33:51

    By one man’s disobedience, we have a proclivity to sin. OK, But by one man’s obedience, it’s so by the obedience of 133 1/2 years of it climaxing his death, shall many be constituted, physically constituted righteous. So he says, yeah, we’re putting up with a problem for Madam.

68. 34:21

    You know, we’re we’re sinners from birth that is potentially and given the opportunity, we’ll we’ll more or less sin. But the blessing from Christ is constitutional righteousness. And what’s that mean? But when you change through mortality, just won’t be an immortal body. It’ll be a body that’s naturally righteous, whereas now we have a body that is naturally unrighteous.

69. 34:52

    Now you just can’t compare the two. I mean, sure, we inherit this disability from Adam, but it can be overcome by the grace of God and look. At the Great. Benefit of the arise that comes out of it and anyway God it couldn’t be. Otherwise, how can God develop characteristics like loyalty and duty? And patience and forgiveness, unless we went through the sin constitution of things first, this going through this experience is the way God is developing divine attitudes and divine qualities, OK?

70. 35:34

    It just can’t be done without it. Yeah. I mean, how can you learn to be forgiving like God if there’s no one to forgive, If no one does anything wrong, If everyone’s that goody, goody. Yeah, I mean, it just can’t work, OK, just can’t work and therefore don’t have a big winds that God’s unrighteous because we inherit this sin susceptibility from Adam.

71. 35:59

    Sure, there might have been a problem if God hadn’t provided. This other, but he has provided this other. So what we have, we inherited from Adam. We’ve inherited mortality and sin proneness. These lusts are strong. OK, as per Romans 5. Don’t forget Brother Carter, those verses in Romans are some next to Romans 3 to write us one of the most important.

72. 36:29

    Verses in the whole Bible on the subject of the eternal OK. And you’ve got to get a good grip of them at your own pace, your own time. And I suggest at least with the help of Brother Carter and so you can grind in what’s being said. All right, don’t. Study verses, study the flow of thought because that’s where the power lies. OK OK so this is just other passage which say the same thing.

73. 37:02

    First Corinthians 15 is all about as a no Adam all die. Even so in Christ shall all be made alive. OK by by man came death. It says in the same by man came death. By man came also the resurrection of the dead. I used to think, why does it make that emphasis of man Brother Carter’s explanation is well by man came death, right? To get resurrection, you had to get a man that was associated with the fall of men and lead them out of. That state to the resurrection state. Because man had got himself into this mess. A man had a parachute down in their first parachute down. OK, get in mixed up with all the muck. And lead them out of that unto resurrection and eternal life. OK.

74. 38:00

    And of course, James says, you know, he says, who? The real devil. Is there’s all sorts of concepts and the apostles know who the devil was. The Jews thought OK, the Persians thought it was some emanation down from God who created all mature and everything mature was evil and that was their concept.

75. 38:18

    The Devil Egyptians had another concept. There’s that many concepts of the devil. But. Christians said Nah yourself. Every man’s tempted when he’s drawn away of his own lust and entice and you know that. OK.

76. 38:38

    We’ve we introduced you to that early. We’ll come back to it That’s I’m sorry I turned 2 over. I knew I’d had a hiccup. So here we are dealing with the fall of Adam. So we’re still we’d really only got up the point where they knew they were naked. OK and that they didn’t believe God and dishonoured God.

77. 39:02

    Now when the atonement. This is a key. The key is not your position so much the key of understanding why God’s got this set methods of of reconciliation called atonement methods. OK, the key feature of it is God’s position. In the whole matter, not our position so much God’s position. He’s the creator.

78. 39:33

    Create the universe, OK. The science show, always the science things on the walls. The Hubble telescope is focused in at the moment on this Galaxy billions of light years away. So they’re looking at this Galaxy, not a Galaxy, an area of yeah, Galaxy. Sorry, No, no, an area of the sky billions of years away. OK.

79. 40:02

    And. And, and, and you’re actually seeing as it was billions of years ago, OK, that takes that long for the light to travel from there to the Hubble telescope. You know, that’s, that’s out of the atmosphere. It’s in space. You can see quite clearly, OK. And, and I mean, when you deal with God, you deal with finiteness, no matter what you look at, you know, there, there may be limits to the universe, but relative to you and I, there’s no limits.

80. 40:35

    I mean, we start talking about billions of ideas. I mean, it’s, it’s relative eternity. It just doesn’t matter whether there’s no end to it or not. Who knows whether there’s any end to it. We’re going to start getting used to the idea of Infinity. You know, I was trying from early childhood to get used to the idea of Infinity. You know, kids, Sunday school kids were always coming up and asked this question, where did God come from? You know, kids tend to think that used to things happen in the beginning and where did that come from? Where did that come from now?

81. 41:05

    Where did God come from then? And I think it was Katie, Katie Popovsky, when she’s this high, she wanted to know where God come from. Her parents couldn’t satisfy. And they said, go and say, grandpa, you know, he’s grand authority. I don’t think she even followed what I said. That didn’t matter. And I said, listen, something can’t come from nothing, can it?

82. 41:30

    No. Therefore something must always exist. As she grappled with that and walked away, she’d got the answer. I don’t think she really understood it, but, you know, it’s just human habit. But logically, something has always got to have existed infinitely that way, Infinitely that way. It’s infinite. You’re dealing. With an infinite. Being now he everything, they reckon they could get the whole universe and it could contract down to the side of the head of a pin or something, you know. That’s whether they know I wouldn’t know whether they know I might be wrong, I might be wrong and I really care very much.

83. 42:13

    All I know is that Psalm 22 and Izi 50, it was written 1000 years before it happened. Izi 53 it was written 750 years before it happened, and that’s good enough evidence to me that the Bible’s the word of God. I just don’t worry too much about all those details, OK? And you’d spend your whole life trying to keep up with their discoveries, which.

84. 42:40

    Prove to me that’s the word of God. You got that, Davey? That’s the word of God. All these people that come to me, they brought up Christadelphins. I say, how do you know the Bible’s the word of God? And they will quote Second Timothy 3 and 16. All scriptures are given by inspiration of God. I said, yeah, if clients inspired, but how do you know it’s inspired?

85. 43:00

    They haven’t got a clue. They’ve never thought it through that just being grown up to accept this, the word of God. But they’ve never personally objectively looked at it and found solid evidence, solid evidence that this is the word of God. I said, look, you’re going to go through life and go through. All sorts of problems which is going to make you moments really doubt where there is a God and whether this Bible’s right. I said you get it right now.

86. 43:25

    You get the get it that in your head, you know. It’s got to be right. No matter how you feel, you know you’re going to sit down and consider it. You’ll know that’s the word of God, OK, how important that is. So here’s this great being. OK, who’s created everything? This world with millions of different species on this world.

87. 43:52

    Millions of them. Some of them have never seen their way down under the sea. He’s created all that OK, and he’s created man in his own image and likeness, that is with capacity to appreciate divine morality. I don’t think we can understand his engineering or anything like that, OK, but we can’t understand his morality.

88. 44:15

    He’s given us that ability, moral faculties, OK. And he’s created them. He’s created the world. Gone to a lot of trouble with all these angels and and Adam and Eve and you. And I depended on him for every moment of existence. He would draw his spirit in his breath. You’re gone. We are a merry thing. He’s a great key.

89. 44:41

    He’s not there for our convenience like some of our kids seem to think parents are. Are there for your convenience. OK, They’ve got to get to work for a year or so. Before they find out, they’ve got to start earning a profit for the boss and the world doesn’t evolve for them. OK, but but that’s the thing, the world’s here.

90. 45:04

    For God, we’re here. For God, you know, we’re crazy. For there’s one God the Father, out of whom there’s everything, and we for him, him not for us, we for him. OK, now what’s happened? Adam and Eve have been put to the test. They were educated by God, created by God-given the environment by God, educated by God. But they were given free will and they were put to the test. And they’re absolutely terrible in their behaviour. Look, they would appreciate it, but what were they doing to God? They disbelieve in him.

91. 46:00

    He created them, told them what was right, and because someone puts a proposition to him, they don’t know the answer. They write God off. They betrayed him, Righto. They’ve approached him. They crucified his honour. I’m using the land Ridge of Psalm 69.

92. 46:22

    They set aside His glory method. He had a method to bring them to glory. They grasped their own method to get the glory. I mean, how insulting can you get? OK, He should be upset, all right? They’ve create Mardy’s creation. There they were and very good in crime and condition, and they’ve ventilated themselves mentally and physically.

93. 46:53

    They’ve mutilated themselves. They might as well have jumped off a. Cliff OK, so they his son and daughter of have have soft to form themselves and made themselves blind and they’ve taken this right step backwards and and and and what’s it done for God historically? He’s going to he knows he’s he’s going to fill the earth with men and women. He knows he’s not going to fall.

94. 47:22

    He knows he’s going to have to deal with thousands of creatures which he’s given free will to. And here we have this historic event where He had created right, it educated them and there was failure. Now that left a big question mark on God’s position. Not only all this honour and flouting of His kingship and all that, OK, disregarding His honour, OK, not only left but left a big question mark on the power of divine education. Left a question.

95. 48:08

    Mark on the power of divine education. Can you see that this is absolutely. Crucial. It’s like it’s a bit like Moses when he was when he was talking to pleading for Israel now to God and he said, look, the nations will say he saved them out of Egypt, He brought them into the desert.

96. 48:33

    But there they perish. He couldn’t take them any further. He just lacked the power to finish the job. That’s what history will say. And he’s played in this point. He knows. Yeah. And. And forever, men have been questioning God. Where was God when these little kids got machine gunned down in Vietnam? And where, you know, where’s God? God’s righteousness is always challenged by men. OK.

97. 48:58

    We’re not in the habit of the doing, of course, so God is presents himself for the problem. He’ll only do what’s right. He said the day that they were to serve, Thou shall die. And that had to happen. He had to be true to his word. There’s nothing worse than parents threatening kids. And when they do it, you don’t bother to implement it. They soon learn that.

98. 49:27

    And I know it’s about 6 times down the line before you’re actually welcome. Like I say, I mean, you’ve got to be true to your word. A good, good parent is true to your word, OK? Otherwise, don’t say it. OK, but he had to be true to his word. Shall not the judge of all the earth do right now?

99. 49:45

    That’s words for when the angels came spoke to Abraham about going down to Sodom. OK, will you destroy the just of the with the wicked? Yeah, of all the earth do right, ’cause he will. It says in Isaiah 45, and this is dealt with in the indie book, that God is a just God, yet a saviour doesn’t say yet it says and a saviour I’ll just put yet in there to get the flow of idea.

100. 50:16

     God is just. It’ll be true to his judgments all right. He’s severe. He will uphold his severity, but he will also exercise his mercy and kindness. But he’ll do it right. It has to be right. Sometimes we forgive our children wrongly. Sometimes it’s a serious matter and we choose because we have circumstances or mood or whatever to let him get away with it.

101. 50:50

     And it’s very destructive for them. All right, we should handle the position, OK, We should handle it right? We’re the temperance of mercy and severity must be handled, right? Takes a lot to learn how to do that. When you’ve learned to become a good parent, you’re that old, you can’t even start again. So that’s the way it casts.

102. 51:15

     All right, So the big question is in the atonement is how can be God be just that, is condemn man to death and still save him? Brother Carter regards that as what he calls the very nerve of the atonement, the very the very sensitive area. OK. All right. How can that be done? Well, it does say, it does say Proverbs. He that confesses his sin, he’s that. Confesses and forsakes his sin, we’ll find mercy with God. You saw well there it is.

103. 51:54

     God just wants to confess our position, OK. And and that will make it right for him to forgive. We’ll confess that he’s right. His judgments are right. You were your death all right and you knew it was wrong and you now want to go in the right direction and and if you forsake it, that is you. You change the direction of life. That’s conversion depends then you’ll then you’ll find mercy with God.

104. 52:18

     So it’s as simple. As that, all we’ve got to do is confess our sin. And and and you think? Oh well. It’s the name of. Jesus Christ and all this stuff. All you got to do is. Confess. It’s not that simple.

105. 52:38

     The scriptures aren’t wrong, of course. Now. So soon? No soon SO. God’s been defined, his honour has been crucified. All right, I’ll use that term because it’s when you look at Christ crucified on those previous chart there the first level. Of atonement is the first level is God came in the midst of men in the person of his Son he manifest God perfectly perfect holiness, perfect righteousness and what did men do They crucify that and what does Peter say in Paul the next day or whenever it was he accused everybody of crucifying Christ.

106. 53:30

     Some weren’t even there. He accused everybody in Christ. In in Hebrews chapter 6, it says that if, if, if you’ve been a particular Holy Spirit and this and this and this and this and you leave the truth, he says you leave the truth and trample the the honor of the Son of God under foot.

107. 53:57

     He says you. Crucify Christ afresh, which means they’ve already crucified Him once and if they leave the truth, they crucify him again because to to leave the truth then was to go back in the synagogue and to get into the synagogue, you had to actually call Jesus Christ a cursed all right now to join the crucified him again.

108. 54:23

     But the point is that implies everybody. That crowd represents everybody. Everybody had filed the honour of God and it was only the disciples of law forsook him and fled all right and at Pentecost was these Jews from everywhere. They may not have even been there. Passover, but he accuses them of crucifying. The Son of God and there was no objection.

109. 54:48

     They got the message. The message is your sins. Every sin you do crucifies God’s honor. Every sin we do crucifies God’s honor. And that’s level one of the atonement. That’s what’s taught in the day of Penny Cross and in the temple the next day. So soon as Adam and Eve sin before pass sentence on him, before he passed sentence on him, he extracted this confession.

110. 55:25

     You know, Adam’s supposed to been so much in love with his wife, but he blames God for giving him this. Wife, you know, he was that afraid and everything. The woman which thou gave us me, she gave me this to, you know, it’s terrible, terrible attitudes. You know, sin leads to sin and terrible attitudes.

111. 55:45

     But before he, he brings the condemnation, first on the woman, then on Adam, you know, on the sweat of thy face, etcetera, etcetera. The ground curse. If I already did that, he said, OK, you’ve introduced a problem, I’m going to deal with it. It looks like my education that’s failed. Why even talk about what’s going to happen to you if you’re sin, how you’re going to die, how it’s going to be a long slow process, OK, and all the details, thorns and systems before that.

112. 56:22

     I just want you to know I’m going to raise up another son of God and he’s going to vindicate my the power of my education. He’s going to glorify me. He’s going to declare my he’s going to honor me and my work will not fire. That’s the first message in the curse on the server that God will be victorious. That’s the first message.

113. 56:54

     And then he goes on, condemns the woman. As you know, all those details, all I got there, there had to be a moral victory. It had to be by divine education. He would educate him and he would love God and he’d love his neighbor. He was morally taught of God and he was obedient under death.

114. 57:20

     Then later, of course, came the physical victory. Physical victory takes 3/10 of a second. A moral victory takes a lifetime. The physical victory is a twinkling eye, and that’s about 3/10 of a second. Coordinates of book I read the other day. I think for for young people here we should discuss the difference and the likeness between Jesus Christ and ourselves.

115. 58:00

     It says as the children of partakers of flesh and blood, He himself likewise partook of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil. So Jesus Christ partook of our same nature what the law could not do, and that was weak through the flesh. God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and as a sin offering gained a victory over sin. That was it says condemn sin in the flesh. I want you got to look very carefully at this. I can cannot be seen.

116. 58:36

     You got to look great at this. Forget that. This Is Us, all right? Of course, we’ve got balances here, OK, We. Have a dual capacity in our brains. We have a capacity to develop the image and likeness of God, and we have this capacity to send to transgress. Those two pots represent capacities. OK, this pot’s pretty full.

117. 59:13

     We not only we inherited sin proneness, but we have personally exacerbated by our transgressions, we’ve made that a bit heavier, in fact a lot of heavier.

118. 59:25

     And 50 years ago the Christian Evans used that big fights about what you inherited from that and what you didn’t. And some said you inherit all this sin proneness from Adam and that’s your whole sin problem. The other said, no, you don’t inherit that at all. There’s no difference in that. And before and after fall. All your sin.

119. 59:41

     Problems are product of habit. You don’t inherit anything from Adam. OK, that was the great item. The fact is, it’s both. You do inherit a sin proneness, and you do exacerbate it, make it worse. Exacerbate means make worse. You make it worse by your conduct. That produces habits, that produces tram lines, and that makes sin ever so much easier.

120. 1:00:08

     Up here we’ve been may or may not be taking on board moral values, and we’ve been taking on board some divine moral values. Hence blue instead of red sin. OK, But the pots themselves are capacities. And consequently I said Primus is a bit heavier than our image and likeness. And that’s why, even though we want to go the right way, you know you and you’re very serene and very righteous and think of the right things, and you walk into the Telegraph pole like I’m always doing, and you kick the thing.

121. 1:00:48

     And if you knew how to swear, you’d swear that you feel like it, you know? I mean, it just happens. That’s the way it is. And you know, even Paul was a man, a great man, but he follows the mayor of I am a Jesus Christ. But he could get in a very heated argument with Barnabas, so much so that they parted company. Yet God selected them to work together, the first missionary journey.

122. 1:01:12

     So they’re very righteous men, not indirect, but they made mistakes because that’s us in all varying. Degrees, but here’s Jesus Christ tempted points so this sin proneness capacity was there. The temptations were there all the time all right, but he had never exacerbated. It’s an empty vessel and you say, Oh, well, he wasn’t tempted as bad as us. I don’t know about that.

123. 1:01:45

     In fact, the worst part of temptation is the first part of the sin is actually the temptation part. Actually, temptation builds up the attraction. Writer. Then the satisfaction that comes from actually fulfilling it quite often. You know, how often does a kid, I pinched an apple off the table, it looked beautiful. But when I put my, when I took a crunch out with the most flowery rotten thing that come across, you know, the temptation was far greater than the actual transgression. You know what I mean?

124. 1:02:19

     The hard part’s the temptation. And he felt the hard parts, every one of them, and he felt every temptation. We have temptations. We don’t even realize they are temptations. We don’t even realize they’re sins. Yet some of. Them you know in. Attitudes and reactions and how you react to people saying this and.

125. 1:02:39

     Some are short fused and some aren’t and and and some are tolerant of fault and. We think we’re right and and quite often we’re quite wrong. You know it just there’s no end of it it. Was tempted in all those areas, you know, as soon as he is baptized. Yeah, 3 minutes. There we go.

126. 1:03:00

     As soon as he’s baptized, you send in the wilderness. It’s prophetic. His life would be 1. Baptism was a commitment to all flesh is grasped. The word endures forever. That would involve and there was a symbolic temptation. It would involve a battle. In life against the temptations of the flesh versus the power of divine education. And he, he went through that 40 days, but that was symbolic. That’s what was been going on for 30 years before it and what would go on for 3 1/2 years after it. And he he would be successful even under the death of the. Cross.

127. 1:03:41

     So time’s gone, but there’s Jesus Christ. He had the same synchronous, the same as us, tempted in all points, but He’d never exacerbated but his. Capacity to be an image and likeness. God was obviously greater than ours and ours differs from person to person anyway. All right, even in these areas, criminals have got a great big bucket here.

128. 1:04:08

     I think that, you know, maybe genetically, I don’t know, maybe not, maybe it’s habit. They’re not God. No, too complex, they’re not. But obviously had a great capacity here. It says in Azar 11, he had a cent, a cent for righteousness. A scent is an instinctive thing. It’s a, it’s a genetic thing, OK, Like a bird has an instinct to migrate. It doesn’t know it’s just an instinct up. It flies.

129. 1:04:37

     It knows how to travel at 10,000 kilometers with its mates. Instinct, in other words, it’s extremely strong instinctiveness toward a certain direction. It says in Isaiah 11 Christ had that OK, consequently had the ability now that wouldn’t. That’s not righteousness on its own, it’s the capacity to be divine like. It had to be filled.

130. 1:05:02

     He had to be educated, and he was educated. That opens my ear morning by morning. Every morning you open my ear. Therefore I was able to give my back to the smiters to them to pluck out the hair. That’s how it’s able to overcome temptation and trial and be victorious because you got an educated.

131. 1:05:22

     His parents couldn’t couldn’t do that. Only God could do that. And from a very early age is taught as Adam directly by God and that says in Hebrews, he upheld everything. He achieved everything here by the word of God’s power. It was power, the word of God. We’ve got to leave it at that. Where are we going?

132. 1:05:47

     We’re going on the next week on Sin Blinds. Very interesting one here. That’s an interesting 1, isn’t it? Any resemblance to anyone in this hall is purely coincidental. No correspondence will be entered into. This. Must be a bloke with a beer, but my wife reckons it’s me with an ice cream cone. Thanks for that. Yeah.