Colin Badger - The Continuity of Babylon - Class 4 - Revelation 12-17 (Part 1)

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1. 0:00

   Last and present titled Revelation Observations on Chapters 12 and 17. Terminated our last class. We were analyzing the links between the man of sin prophecy and the Old Testament connections which are rightly suggested to us in the margin of the RV. We say rightly because when we examine each of those contexts, we do see in fact a great deal of appropriateness in linking with the kind of figure described in the man of sin prophecy. The wording is virtually exact in some cases. We explored, especially in our last class, the links with Daniel, especially Daniel Chapter 7. Given the fact that the beast system in Revelation has inevitably those kind of links back into the Daniel prophecies, we shouldn’t be surprised to find that as we explore the beast system in Revelation, we will be continually reminded of some of the characteristics of the man of Sin. I’d like in this class, brothers and sisters, to consider what is perhaps one of the most troublesome passages that deals with the Beast system, Revelation Chapter 12. And from the point of view of more recent interpretations of Revelation in the community, Revelation chapter 12 has perhaps been one of the major controversial areas. I’d like to suggest that before we look at chapter 12 in any detail, that we look at the environment in Revelation in which it’s set.

2. 1:40

   By environment, I mean that we take a good look at Revelation Chapter 11 that’s on one side of it and we take a close look at Revelation Chapter 13 on the other side of it. I believe there are some important leads in Revelation 11 prior to us meeting the vision of Chapter 12, and that some of the follow up details in Revelation 13 give important information before we draw final conclusions as to what’s going on in Chapter 12. Therefore, we’re just going to back up a little bit and take a look at Revelation Chapter 11 for the purpose of giving us some preparation for chapter 12 and then chapter 13. First of all, in Revelation Chapter 11, John tells us in verse.

3. 2:31

   One that was given me I read like unto a rod. And the Angel stood, saying, Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar and them that worship therein, rise and measure the temple of God. And the altar and them that worship therein. But the court, which is without the temple, leave out and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles and the holy city, shall they tread under foot, 40 and two months. Now, first of all, there is a very important introduction, I believe, brothers and sisters, in these few verses of Revelation 11.

4. 3:18

   It reinforces a concept that we’ve already mentioned a number of times in our studies. Thus far we have talked about the false being an imitator of the true. How much the false imitates the true we can see from the descriptions that we have of the man of sin compared to the descriptions of the Son of Man. Here in Revelation Chapter 11, it’s helpful to have a visual picture of what is being measured at the time of Christ. Of course, Herod’s temple had built an enormous court surrounding the main temple area. The court of the Gentiles it was called. That was a feature that was peculiar really to Herod’s temple and the time of John.

5. 4:06

   It wasn’t something that was true of Solomon’s Temple or the Temple. The time was erubbable. Here is the temple of God, a place of worship. There’s an altar there and there are worshippers. But the court which is without the temple, Greek word means excommunicate. To leave out in Greek is the Greek word meaning excommunicate.

6. 4:33

   Now why would the court have to be excommunicated from the temple? After all, the court was a place for Gentiles to worship. Somebody looking at the temple as an overview would see the course, the main precincts of the temple and the main court, the gentiles surrounding it. And then of course, there was the court of women, and then there was what was called the court of Israel as well.

7. 4:57

   There was a succession of courts, but this court is undoubtedly according to verse 2, the court of the Gentiles. But it seems to have been attached to the temple. They were worshippers that were in that court. It was provided for worshippers, the gentiles that wanted to come and could not go past that guarding sign that warned any gentile that he who crossed that threshold would be doing so upon pain of death. So here we have a picture of a place of worship. But part of that place of worship is to be excommunicated because it’s given to the Gentiles. Now right away, I believe, brothers and sisters, we are given an important perspective here at the beginning of Chapter 11, a place of worship, but it is to be divided into two parts. Those who are worshipping in this place are attached, some of them to the true temple of God and to what’s called the Holy City.

8. 5:58

   But some part of this place that has worshippers is to now be separated at this point in time, because those who worship in that section are called Gentiles. What is being said and done there? Surely, brothers and sisters, there is something similar to what we’ve seen already in our studies thus far. What seemed to be worshippers can sometimes be false imitators, deluded, not following the truth.

9. 6:32

   We then proceed further into the picture in verse three and four of the witnesses and the two lamp stands. We read that these lamp stands have a common point where they feed into verse four. There are two olive trees, the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth, and if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth and devoureth their enemies. Now, brothers and sisters, there are two trees and two olive sticks.

10. 7:05

    That’s clearly an allusion to Zechariah’s prophecy of the olive tree, or the olive trees and the Candlestick. But when we go back to Zechariah, we find that there is a connection here with this prophecy. But there’s something different about it. In Zechariah, there were two olive trees and one Candlestick. Here there are two olive trees and two candlesticks, two sources of light. Are there really two sources of light? That is, are there two true sources of light? It has connections with Zachariah. Some things are the same and look like the true, but in fact there is something very different about the setting here.

11. 7:52

    It seems to complement what we see in the opening part of the vision. I’d suggest that there is a place with worshippers, but one part of it in fact is identified as being the true temple, the true altar, the true city. And part of it which seems also to have worshippers, is described as being in need of being excommunicated and separated, even though it would all look to the human eye to be a mutual place of worshipper. And all of them would seem to be very sincere as they were going about their devotions.

12. 8:26

    One group or one section was recognized by God and the other group was to be excommunicated from and it’s associated with Gentiles. Now that is what happens in Revelation Chapter 11. Before we get to chapter 12, we go over to chapter 13 to the other side.

13. 8:51

    Make a few more observations there. In chapter 13 we see this sea beast coming up out of the water in verse one, as they do in Daniel Chapter 7. Attention is given to the kind of conglomerate animal that we have here, drawing from the various beasts and kind of pasting them together, as it were.

14. 9:17

    And in verse two of chapter 13, attention is drawn to the mouth of this animal, his mouth as the mouth of a lion, and the dragon gave him his power, his seat and great authority, power, great authority, and a seat given to this beast that is a conglomerate of the beasts of Daniel 7.

15. 9:48

    In Daniel seven we have those beasts except for the dragon. In Daniel chapter seven, we do have a reference to a mouse in conjunction with those beasts. In Daniel Chapter 7, in conjunction with that mouse and the beast that is attached to it, or to which it is attached, there is reference to an individual who claims to have great power and authority, and exercises that authority as though he was God himself.

16. 10:22

    Interestingly, there are connections then with Daniel Chapter 7. Then we proceed further to verse five. There was given unto him a mouth once again back to the mouth, speaking great things and blasphemies. Now remind ourselves of that language of Daniel Chapter 7, where we have the beasts, and finally the 4th beast, and the little mouth that becomes stout.

17. 10:53

    What was said there? A little horn. Before whom were three of the first horns plucked up? He had the eyes of a man and a mouth speaking great things, And hear of the sea beast, it is said there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and he’s blasphemous. What about the little horn? He too is blasphemous, although the word is not exactly used, because he speaks great words.

18. 11:25

    Verse 25 of Daniel Seven Against the Most High. Interesting. Furthermore, the time period associated with this BEAST system is 40 and two months. Now 40 and two months is the same thing as of course 3 1/2 days or years. However one wants to put it to start with 3 1/2 years is the same amount of days as 42 months on the basis of the month being 30 days, which was standard for the the lunar calendar. And of course in Daniel Chapter 7 there is a time period given and it’s given as being time times and dividing time which is understood to be by all commentators 3 1/2 * 3 1/2 * 42 three and a half.

19. 12:17

    Very close connection between those. If we were to go back to Revelation Chapter 11, where we just came from, we would discover that 42 months occurs there as well. In verse two, it’s the time period during which the Holy City is trodden under foot 40 and two months the Holy City, the true believers trodden down for a period of 42 months, 42 months there, 42 months.

20. 12:48

    Here In Revelation 13, during which time this mouth speaks great things, blasphemy is allowed to be spoken, and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God to blasphemy His name and his Tabernacle. Interestingly, not just against God, but he blasphemes the temple of God. Now how could He blasphemy the Temple of God?

21. 13:12

    That’s a curious expression. It’s not so curious, of course, when we see the links, as we’ve already noticed with a man of sin who claims to have as his seat of authority the Temple of God, and treats that place as if it was God’s temple, and treats himself as though he was God. And likewise the man of sin is a mouth. The man of sin likewise speaks great things. The man of sin likewise is blasphemous in what he speaks. But what about this term blasphemy? What are its associations in the Book of Revelation? Especially blasphemy?

22. 13:50

    Could it be spoken of in the Book of Revelation? I mean by someone who might be an atheistic figure? Because that’s how some brethren understand Revelation 13 to be essentially A humanistic or an atheistic figure. Not an apostate figure, not a church figure. Could that be? Well, blasphemy is first mentioned in Revelation chapter 2.

23. 14:12

    Let’s go there, please. It’s the first reference. It’s always useful, brothers and sisters, to look up a word as it’s first used in Scripture and to see whether or not after the first reference in scripture whether the other occurrences in some way build upon that first place. The first time seed is mentioned in Genesis has important connotations for the other references.

24. 14:46

    To see the first places we’ve seen where Kingdom is mentioned, Speaking of Babylon, the first place where Shinar is mentioned first occurrences of a word, an important word in scripture, are always worth noting carefully, because often there the scripture will define its terms and its connotations. Here is the first reference then to blasphemy.

25. 15:08

    Verse nine of Revelation 2. What’s it to do with I know thy works and tribulation and poverty, but thou art rich, and I know the blasphemy of them, which say they are Jews and are not, but are of the not Ecclesia, the synagogue of Satan. Now isn’t that interesting? The very first reference to blasphemy in the Book of Revelation is in the context of apostasy.

26. 15:41

    It’s in the context of an Ecclesia or not an Ecclesia so much, but as an Ecclesia next to a group close to a group that are blasphemous Because they say they are Jews, they got the outward appearance of the true, but in fact they are not true Jews and that the Spirit chooses not even to use the word the word Ecclesia to describe their gathering place.

27. 16:04

    Instead it refers to the Synagogue of Satan. Now where else is blasphemy used in Revelation? Do you know that after Revelation 2 and verse 9 is only used in conjunction with the Beast system? Only used in conjunction with the B system? The next occurrence is in Revelation chapter 13, which we’ve just been looking at, then in chapter 16, then in 17, and then again in 18. Now if Scripture is allowed to define its own terms, brothers and sisters, and if first occurrences often give the vital clue for the meaning that’s attached to that term, Revelation 2 and verse 9 is highly significant. It is not something that is in Revelation spoken of by an autocratic, gentile, atheistic, humanistic type, autocrat, or power.

28. 17:05

    In Revelation, the blasphemy spoken of is in conjunction with those who claim they are the true Israel, but in fact they are not. They have the appearance, but in fact they’re an imitation of the true, but they’re not the true. Back to the same concept. See how that concept brothers and sisters, ever so vital to grasp all the way through in those sections in Daniel and right through of course, the man of sin prophecy. We’ve seen this concept come up again and again, the imitation of the false concerning the true and how closely it manages to mimic the truth.

29. 17:40

    So that Jesus could say that that we are not to be deceived and if we aren’t careful even the very elect will be deceived. Take that very seriously. He opened his mouth and he spoke blasphemy against God to blasphemy his name and His dwelling place and them that dwell in heaven. Then we meet an Earth beast. Chapter 11, Excuse me, Chapter 13, verse 11. Chapter 13, verse 11.

30. 18:11

    I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb. I think it’s helpful to perhaps visualize some of this. He had two horns like a lamb and he speak as a dragon. Now that’s interesting isn’t it? This earth beast we are told is connected with the sea beast.

31. 18:53

    We are told that the sea beast gets his power from the dragon. We are introduced to the dragon in chapter 12. So that’s why we have sort of gone around chapter 12 on both sides. Take a look at certain concepts and clues that might be given that have to be borne in mind before we look closely at the details of chapter 12.

32. 19:15

    The dragon is introduced in 12. He is behind the scenes in giving the sea beast his power as 13 opens up. So what they see is not the dragon, They see the sea beast. But he gets his power from the dragon. The dragon is kind of the unseen force behind the scenes. He’s never disappeared. He’s never gone.

33. 19:36

    He’s still there. And then emerges the Earth Beast. And we’re told that he is connected closely with the sea beast. And if he is, he too must in some way get his power from the dragon. Or we might say that’s perhaps quite a conjecture. You know, maybe the dragon was indeed behind the sea beast, but can we be sure he’s behind the Earth Beast too? How do we know?

34. 20:02

    After all, he looks very good, doesn’t he? What does he look like? He looks like a lamb. What book of the Bible spends the greatest amount of detail concerning that figure of the lamb? It’s the Book of Revelation. More is said about the lamb in Revelation than anywhere else in scripture as it relates to Jesus. The Lamb in Revelation all the way through pretty well is Jesus.

35. 20:29

    That’s associated, of course, with Messiah. However, as John looks, he must have thought, oh, it’s a picture of the Master. He’s already seen a picture of the Lamb several times in Revelation prior to this vision. John could have very easily been deceived. But then the Lamb opens his mouth, his mouth, He opens his mouth. And from his mouth John then knows is true identity and character.

36. 20:59

    As Jesus said, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. What is spoken is a true indication of the real character inside. And when he speaks, he’s a dragon. John thinks my could have been deceived. How good was that deception? Brothers and sisters? He, to all outward appearances, was a Lamb, could easily have been mistaken as a symbol of the Master.

37. 21:27

    Since in this very book Jesus is pictured as a Lamb more than once. John has seen that Lamb more than once, and he sees it again later on. Now he sees a Lamb in conjunction with this vision, and no joke, no doubt John must have thought it first. Ah, it’s another picture of the Lord.

38. 21:46

    But it wasn’t. How did he know? Only when he opened his mouth and then when he opened his mouth the dragon is still there. He speaks like a dragon. The dragon of Daniel chapter 12 hasn’t gone at all. He is working behind the scenes in the sea based manifestation and in the next phase the dragon is working behind the scenes and giving the power and the bite to the lamb’s work which is really no lamb. And once again you notice the attention now given to the mouth.

39. 22:21

    You see, brothers and sisters, there are very close connections with that little horn in Daniel 7. The time period of Daniel 7 is the same kind of time period as is used here for the sea beast. Time, times and a half a time or 42 months, 3 1/2 Like the little horn that becomes stout, It speaks blasphemies, it says things against the temple of God, it speaks great things, and attention is given to the mouth.

40. 22:52

    Now let’s go back to the mouth of the sea beast. What kind of mouth did the sea beast have? Well, in verse 2, just to read it again, the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear and his mouth as the mouth of a lion.

41. 23:12

    Now you see with this beast, he has all the appearances, brothers and sisters, of being a leopard. But again, we’ve got to be cautious.

42. 23:24

    The body is essentially a leopard. However, his feet have certain distinctions, His head has certain distinctions or his head, and when he speaks, the mouth that he’s got is the mouth of a lion in the first stage. Now of the beasts in Daniel, which beast was associated with the lion, or what power was associated with the lion, Babylon was associated with the lion.

43. 23:53

    The first beast that comes out of the watery condition in Daniel 7 is of course the lion, which lines up with the head of gold in Daniel’s image. The next one, of course, is we knew was the bear, which lines up with the silver in the image. And the third one was the leopard, which lines up of course with the brass. The last one was the 4th beast, which had iron in it. This beast has the leopard, in other words, he’s got some brass lined up with grease.

44. 24:25

    There’s something Grecian, some elements still going through in continuity with these latter beasts, latter phases. So automatically by drawing in the Leopard, there is a connection with the brass power. That shouldn’t be surprising because in the 4th feast of Daniel 7 there’s brass in it, as well as iron. There is that metal which is really lined up of course with the leopard power with Greece, so that shouldn’t be surprising. But when it speaks, it speaks like a lion that go back to Daniel, and that’s connected with Babylon. Of course.

45. 25:02

    It was in fact a royal symbol for the power of Babylon. You see brothers and sisters in the environment of chapter 12, these beasts that continue on after the events of chapter 12 and the man child who confronts the dragon. The dragon lives on and the dragon manifests himself 1st through the sea beast and secondly through the earth beast. The dragon is associated with apostasy, not just with raw political power.

46. 25:40

    Revelation chapter 12 is one stage, the sea beast is another stage, and the Earth beast is another stage. You go from a dragon that makes no pretense to be anything other than a dragon, to a sea beast that is only a dragon inside. Because it says the dragon gave him his power, it is covert.

47. 26:06

    The dragon like power is not obvious, but it’s the dragon who’s pulling the strings and giving him his power. So the dragon in the second phase is not obvious. His presence just isn’t obvious at all, but it certainly is a ferocious looking beast. The next stage, when you get to this one, is the most beguiling of all, because unlike this sea beast, the Earth Beast doesn’t even look ferocious to start with. John says he sees a lamb.

48. 26:37

    That’s all he sees. Nothing like the sea beast, nothing like the dragon. But when he opens his mouth, the dragon is still there. In other words, from the dragon stage to the Earth Beast stage, the identity of the dragon has become less and less obvious. His constituent influence and power has become more and more deceiving and subtle, less and less obvious to appearance and to the eye.

49. 27:05

    He’s still there, but he’s buried even more so in his influence. You see, brothers and sisters, we must be getting a progression as we move from 12 into 13 through the two beasts. Finally, as we follow through the beast system, we find it in conjunction with a false prophet with a false prophet. Now, a false prophet in scripture is never associated with a atheistic or a humanistic figure, and it’s only someone who makes the pretense of speaking for God. But in fact it’s not.

50. 27:36

    But makes the pretense is false, but really pretends to be the truth. See brothers and sisters, whatever we make of the dragon and whatever he’s doing and whatever influence he’s wielding in chapter 12, we’ve got to bear in mind how he ends up. He ends up as looking like Christ. He ends up as being underneath that lamb like beast. He is very similar to the kind of metaphor Jesus used when he said that they will be wolves in sheep’s clothing. Speaking of the rise of apostasy, Paul said in the Acts that he feared when he spoke to the Ephesian elders that when he departs grievious wolves were inter in among the fly grievious wolves.

51. 28:24

    Using the language of the master earlier on that there will be wolves in sheep’s clothing. How do you know the wolves? How do you know that there’s a dragon there? When he speaks, what he says, how he behaves? It’s from his mouth that you will determine. And that’s exactly what Deuteronomy said. How do you know a false prophet, Said Moses, On God’s behalf, you will listen to what he says, you know, weigh it up with the commandments of Yahweh. It’s on the basis not of what he does, but on the basis of what he says and whether it winds up with revelation, with true revelation, the ultimate measure of what the character is like inside.

52. 29:01

    So out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh truly not only of the good man, but also of the bad. Whatever we make, therefore, of the scene in Revelation 12, what we have got is the first stage of a development that is going to end up with something like this. It’s the beginning of apostasy, not the beginning of an atheistic, humanistic figure. In its final stage is when Christ returns, but the beginning of a system that is finally going to have a false prophet associated with it.

53. 29:37

    That to all intents and purposes, the dragon is going to be so well buried in the last stage that he’s going to look like a religious figure. He’s going to look like the master himself, as described elsewhere in Revelation. See how helpful it is, I believe. Look at Revelation 13 very carefully, first reminding ourselves of what we saw in Revelation 11.

54. 30:01

    He sees the temple an overview, and then he’s told to excommunicate one part of those worshippers because they don’t belong to the true temple and the true holy city. Excommunicate them. Tells, tells the Lord Jesus Christ to John. Keep them separate. They are the court of the Gentiles. Indeed. They look like fellow worshippers, but he’s told separate them.

55. 30:30

    We see two lampstands. We’re reminded of Zachariah. There are similarities, but there are differences. There are two sources of light. Can there truly be two sources of light? The force of the Tabernacle, symbol of the Menorah and in Zechariah likewise, is that there’s one source of light, not two. But they look both the same, and they both seem to be lampstands and they both seem to be burning and they both seem to be shedding light. There’s very, very similar prophets that had the powers like Moses did, to send plagues and that sort of thing. Are they truly pictures of all the Saints or just some? Well, in case we’re not sure, the warnings in Revelation chapter 13 have to be born in mind. The dragon goes through various stages. First he’s obvious as to what he is, and then he becomes less obvious as he manifests himself through figures that become more and more having a religious garb. Till finally, the final stage is that the dragon is behind a power that looks almost like Christ, exactly like Christ until he speaks.

56. 31:39

    And when he does speak, he sounds like the little horn of Daniel 7 and he looks like the little horn of Daniel 7. Moreover, he speaks and he looks somewhat like, of course, the man of sin. And what else does he do? Does he persecute the Saints? Does he bother them? Well, let’s notice again Revelation 13.

57. 32:04

    As we continue through here, we see that he becomes an antagonistic power. Let’s go down to, well, verse 12, Speaking of the earth beast. Then he exercises all the power of the first beast before him and causes the earth, causes the earth and then the dwell therein to worship the first beast. Then he does wonders like the man of sin and like Jesus Christ of course And that word wonder. There is the Greek word Semaeon used in second Second Thessalonians chapter 2.

58. 32:36

    As we’ve seen before, look at verse 14. The dragon now working through this lamb like figure deceives them that dwell on the earth by means of miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast.

59. 32:55

    Then in verse 15 he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and ’cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast. Here’s the point, as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. What does the little horn do in Daniel Chapter 7 to those that are antagonistic or resist him?

60. 33:20

    Well, we remember what it says there in Daniel Seven. He thinks to change times and laws. And before that Daniel is told he shall speak great words against the Most High and shall wear out the Saints of the Most High. Exactly what this beast system does here at this one particular stage.

61. 33:44

    Then, as we come to an end of Revelation 13, we’re drawn back to stress on the man. The man. Chapter 18 here is wisdom. Excuse me, Chapter 13, verse 18 here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. His number is 603 score and six. It is the number of a man.

62. 34:16

    Why put the stress on him being a man unless there’s a link, as there is with the sea beast in verse 5 and as there is with the earth beast in verse 12. Unless there’s a link back again to Daniel 7 where the little horn that speaks great things for the same time period, who also wears out the Saints, who also is blasphemous. It is an individual who is described as a man, a man who has the eyes of a man, the mouth of a man. And therefore, once again, the emphasis goes back to 2nd Thessalonians 2 because it’s the man of sin, even though he represents a system in a body that supports his convictions and whom he deludes back to Revelation 12. Now with that in mind, keeping in mind what is really the latter development in chapter 13, is there any mention in Revelation chapter 12 of Deception? Before we look at some of the specific details, well it’s interesting.

63. 35:32

    In verse nine there is this dragon that we know in the end is going to be manifested through the sea beast phase associated with blasphemy, which we know is connected with apostasy. This dragon that is then going to go through the phase of being an earth piece that’s going to look like a lamb and be connected with a false prophet and deceive the earth and do great signs and wonders like Christ. This dragon is connected in verse nine with deception, deceiving the whole world before he is thrust down at that point. That’s interesting that there is that connection with the dragon immediately in chapter 12 and with deception. Are there other details in this chapter that would lead us to the notion of the false representing the true? Well, really, there are some very significant signs of it. For what happens when the dragon is thrust out of this heaven. We read that as soon as he is thrust out verse 10, along comes a great acclamation, says John.

64. 36:43

    I heard a loud voice saying, In heaven now has come salvation and strength in the Kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ. For the accuser of our brethren is cast down which accused them before our God. Day and night a voice comes from heaven. Ah, some brethren will say, this has got to be the setting up of the Kingdom. This can’t possibly be some earlier stage of apostasy developing, let’s say before the Middle Ages even. Why can’t it be?

65. 37:15

    Because this voice comes from heaven, and because it says that now with salvation, now with salvation, and strengthen the Kingdom of our God, the voice comes from where the voice comes from heaven. Now if Scripture is allowed to interpret its own terms of reference, where is heaven in this context? Where is the heaven in this immediate context? Well, the heaven is where the dragon was verse seven. There was a war in heaven.

66. 37:46

    Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon was thrust out. It’s the place where the stars of heaven were in verse four that were finally thrust to the earth. It’s where Michael went up to in verse 5 where there was a throne prepared for him called the Throne of God. It’s where the woman was in verse one who was clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars where she travails being pregnant with child. That’s where the heaven is.

67. 38:21

    When we’re speaking to Jehovah’s Witnesses and to our friends like that, we insist that we let Scripture interpret Scripture. We let the context interpret its own frames of reference. The heaven here, in context is the heaven from which the dragon has been fallen and to which Michael has now ascended, and in which the woman finally sits in all her great supposed glory with apostate symbols in verse one.

68. 38:49

    So perhaps this heaven isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. Perhaps this heaven isn’t what it appears to be. Perhaps it’s not really heaven, but it’s an imitation, or it’s at least a parallel to heaven. Let’s explore it further. Now has come salvation and strengthen the Kingdom of our God. All right, let’s take that notion. If that is the establishment, at that point of the Kingdom of God, we have had a war in heaven. Michael has gone to heaven.

69. 39:19

    The dragon is thrust out and now comes the Kingdom. So it’s apparently a future vision. Say something. Now comes the Kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ. Why? For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before God day and night. Why? Because the accuser is now defeated, right.

70. 39:40

    The accuser is now defeated. He’s now been cast out. He’s been dethroned. Michael has taken his place. Great day of rejoicing. Down goes the dragon. Up goes Michael. So there’s cause for rejoicing. The Kingdom of God is now established. But what do we read? Verse 12. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

71. 40:02

    Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea, For the devil has come down unto what the devil has come down unto you. Having great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Well then what happens? The dragon then is cast to the earth and he persecutes the woman.

72. 40:23

    Then we read that he continues to persecute for a period of time, times a half a time more than that. Verse 17 The dragon is wrath with the woman and he goes to make war with the remnant of her seed which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

73. 40:44

    Is the Kingdom set up? What kind of a Kingdom is That emphasis is placed by some of our expositors on that word Now in verse 10. Now has come salvation, strength and the Kingdom? Is that how we understand the Kingdom to be set up? That once the Kingdom is set up after that the Saints are to be persecuted in verse 17.

74. 41:06

    Moreover, chapter 13 continues the story of the dragon in the sea beast phase. The sea beast goes through a certain period of time that must be elapsed and he becomes a blastemer. He needs time to grow and develop and become what he does. Then we go through the Earth Beast phase of chapter of verse 11 where it looks like the lamb although it speaks like a dragon.

75. 41:31

    Then we meet the dragon later on in Revelation. A number of times beyond this the dragon is alive according to chapter 16 and verse 13. Not only that, the dragon is around as late as Revelation chapter 20 and verse 2. The dragon is there in Revelation 20 and verse two. Look at how much time, and look at the number of events that have transpired after the expelling of the dragon from this so-called heaven. Well then, why does Revelation 12 use that kind of language? Who says it?

76. 42:06

    After all, it’s those who are associated with this heaven, the voice that comes from heaven that says it comes from the same place where the dragon once had his throne and his own seat of authority before he was deposed by Michael. The voice comes from that heaven, from those authorities, from that source of power and influence, from the heavenly location where that dragon once resided and where Michael now is. If that’s a picture of Christ descending his throne of power and authority and ready to assume control over the world, and if that’s the beginning of the true Kingdom of heaven, why is it that as a result of that the Saints are persecuted and continue to be persecuted then by the sea beast after the dragon phase and continue to be persecuted after that by the lamb face of the earth beast?

77. 43:00

    And how is it the dragon is still present by revelation Chapter 20? Was the Kingdom of God set up, or was it something that looked like the Kingdom of God at that time? Was it something that was maybe a false hope? Was it something that was a hollow pretense? Something that had certain aspects about it that looked like it was the beginning of the Kingdom? But as time went along, it became apparent that it wasn’t the beginning of the Kingdom.

78. 43:29

    What about Michael? How could this possibly be other than Jesus Christ? It is urged. After all, his name is Michael, one like God. Yes, his name is 1 like God, but the man of sin sits in a place that he claims is the temple of God and the man of sin. We remind ourselves cautiously spoke as though he was God and as if he was in fact God. So the man of sin portrays himself to be very God, and this individual claims to be or has the title Michael, one like God. It’s not an impossible position to suggest that although this individual is called Michael, he’s called Michael because he is one who claims to be like God, but the behavior and the circumstances surrounding his ascendancy show otherwise. It’s only by the details that follow Michael’s reign that we can see that something peculiar is happening here. You notice that when Michael ascends the throne, the Saints are persecuted.

79. 44:39

    When Michael ascends the throne, the devil is released on the earth. When Jesus ascends his throne and exercises his power, the devil will be bound, we’re told in Scripture. And when Jesus reigns and the Kingdom begins, the Saints won’t be persecuted. They will rejoice. You see, what happens here is the very opposite of the truth. Michael ascends and the devil is released. When Jesus exercises full authority on the earth. Satan is not released on the earth. Satan is bound for 1000 years.

80. 45:17

    The very opposite of what happens here, in fact, is true of Jesus when he does exercise that authority. When Jesus comes to that position of power and authority, the Saints aren’t persecuted. They’re preserved and blessed and inherit immortality. Too many things happening here which contradict the truth, although it’s very close to the truth. There are certain things here that are a semblance of the truth, but without that concept in mind that we’ve drawn some other parts of Scripture, we could very easily misinterpret these events without remembering what finally the dragon does. He manifests himself through the sea beast, and he’s associated with blasphemy.

81. 46:00

    The dragon then goes through the phases, we said of the earth beast, where he looks very much like Christ, very much like Christ, so much that he’s a lamb, and until he speaks, no one would have known he was a dragon. So within the environment of chapter 12 in Revelation, there are figures that show the false imitates the true very, very well, and there’s a need for caution against deception.

82. 46:29

    Time doesn’t allow brothers and sisters to go through chapter 12 in detail, considering whether or not it could refer to Israel. Perhaps we can do that tomorrow morning in the Sunday School class. Many people do believe that this figure must refer to Israel in some way, or the woman must refer to Israel in some way. But a careful look at the details of this chapter prove otherwise.

83. 46:54

    Things that are said here in this chapter do not fit that entity. Furthermore, we find that when Babylon falls, who is connected with this beast? The Saints are told to rejoice over her demise. And the Saints are never exhorted to rejoice over the demise of Israel or Jerusalem. But when that other great city falls, the Saints are exhorted to rejoice and to be thankful that she’s gone and been destroyed.

84. 47:22

    That doesn’t fit as an exhortation to the Saints when they see Israel falling into the hands of our enemies or whenever Israel or Jerusalem has fallen. We are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, not to rejoice over her destruction in her burning. So, brothers and sisters, in summary, let us take heed to what perhaps are the most important concepts we’ve studied today, Looking for the big picture, the main ideas 1st, and having confidence that if we at least get the main part of the plot, such as the B system. So supporting details will at least fit into a basic pattern that we understand, although we not may not be able to completely identify every aspect About all the small details, we look for important supporting concepts, the most important being that we’ve stressed today.

85. 48:16

    The concept of the false imitating the true, the concept of continuity from Genesis to Daniel to Revelation. The concept that Babylon continues in the earth has begun from the time of Genesis and is still present in some form or another in the Book of Revelation. The realization that those powers, Babylon especially, continue in the earth and are manifested in the earth informs not so much as the old political powers, so much as how they are manifested through deceiving ideas and teachings of men.

86. 48:56

    How they form finally are gelled into a giant, great, colossal apostate system that is so deceiving that it looks very much like a lamb, although in fact it’s a dragon inside.