Ben Brinkerhoff - Class 3: Reconciliation Through A Representative

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:00

   Okay, all right, brief summary, brief summary. First class, we talked about the world's variety of reconciliation, right? Is that they try to cover, I try to cover my sin with someone else's sin, which is if you hurt me, I get to hurt you back. Okay, and if I do that, it's even. It's actually just, right? And I'm easily hurt because I'm kind of important.

2. 0:26

   Not because I think I'm important, but just because I think about myself a lot. And so I'm constantly looking out for people that aren't treating me right. And when people don't treat me right, then I get to be awful to them backwards. And the problem with that is that it actually doesn't lead to a good place.

3. 0:41

   You know, it leads over time to a lot of feelings of guilt and self-pity and self-gratification because I'm constantly trying to make myself feel better. In fact, when I'm hurting you, I was just trying to make myself feel better. And this is kind of the world's version of reconciliation. And then I gave you something and then I said, well, actually, this isn't God's version of reconciliation.

4. 1:00

   God doesn't cover sin with sin. God covers sin with righteousness. And I said to you, well, does that make any sense? And you all kind of looked at me blankly and I'm guessing, okay, no, it doesn't make any sense. Okay, right? So then the last class I tried to say, well, God covers sin with righteousness.

5. 1:18

   But then we have a problem because the way he's done that is he's offered the Lord Jesus Christ as a sacrifice, but he didn't sin at all. And how is that righteous? How is it righteous that a completely just man like the Lord Jesus Christ would die? That doesn't make any sense at all, at least intuitively.

6. 1:37

   So in the last class I tried to lay out two points. I tried to say, first of all, the atonement will never make any sense if you still think that you haven't done anything wrong. And on what basis would you think you haven't done anything wrong? Well, on the basis that you're your own judge, that you're the authority, that you decide what's right and wrong.

7. 2:01

   And in your view, what you've done isn't wrong. It's right. And if you are the decider of what's right and wrong for you, then you haven't sinned. And you haven't sinned, you haven't done anything wrong. There's no need for re-reconciliation. There's no need for atonement. Because in that instance, essentially what you've said is, I'm God.

8. 2:18

   And I said to you, actually, that's not a unique idea. Because in the very beginning of the Bible, that's what our first parents thought. In the very, very beginning of the Bible, they said, I profess to be wise. I'm God. I want to know good and evil, just like God does. And then I told you to Romans, and Romans said, well, our first parents professed to be wise.

9. 2:39

   And they didn't acknowledge God, that he was God. And then from that has come all these problems that Paul separates as a reprobate mind. And that's a mind that's failed the test. And I said, well, how do we know the mind failed the test? And I said, because it does things that aren't convenient.

10. 2:56

    Like we go out of our way to sin. Animals don't even do that. Right? And even the animals don't go out of their way to sin. We go out of our way to sin. Right? That's our mind that we have. And I asked you the question, is that mind your God? Because if so, you've got problems that I can't help and the Bible can't help.

11. 3:17

    And if you want that mind to be your God, then that's up to you. But if your mind's not your God, then you need God's solution. And God's solution was through the Lord Jesus Christ. And we tried to understand, well, why would God kill? How would it be righteous that Jesus died? How is that righteous at all?

12. 3:35

    I said, because at his baptism, he said to John the Baptist, he said, John, you and I, we share something in common. It become with us to fulfill all righteousness. Because you and I, John, we're on the same basis. We got something in common. And I said, that thing we have in common is our nature.

13. 3:53

    And that nature, since the very beginning, has opposed God. In fact, rebelled against God. And so what Jesus is doing on the cross is he's saying this deserves to die. Because this wants to rebel against God. It has its own will. My will, not thine, be done is kind of how we all naturally think.

14. 4:11

    And so Jesus had to put that to death. And had to publicly put it to death. So that God would be righteous over this thing which is causing us to sin. And I said, okay, well, fine. Okay, that's maybe where we're off to right now. But now the next question that presents itself is we can sort of see how the grave couldn't hold Christ because he hadn't sinned.

15. 4:35

    So Christ was resurrected from the grave. That's what Peter says in Acts chapter 2. The grave couldn't hold Christ. But I guess the question that presents itself now to us, right, as we kind of go through this way of thinking is, why should you and I be saved by the death and resurrection of this just man 2,000 years ago?

16. 4:57

    Okay, why? Okay, I can see why Jesus was resurrected. I can see why he should live. The question is, why should that help me? Okay, and one of the things we're going to be talking about today is baptism. What it does, what it means, and why it helps. Now, who here is not baptized?

17. 5:18

    Raise your hand. A couple of you. Maybe a little bit like half the room. Okay? You guys, it's funny that the non-baptized crowd just go to go. They don't want to like, you know, right? About half of you. Okay? Now, when I got baptized, I didn't know what I was doing. But I knew it was a good thing to do, and I'm glad I did it.

18. 5:40

    But I didn't come for years later to know what I'm going to teach you today about what baptism is all about. Okay? So we're going to really get into that in case that's a question that you have because it's a question I had. Okay. So there's bizarre theories on the idea of why you and I should be saved by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.

19. 6:00

    There's a lot of theories out there, and there's a lot of theories that Christianity puts out there, and there's a lot of theories that Christianity puts out there, and it puts in their music. Okay? So you might be singing about these ideas of how Jesus saves you that are totally wrong and not in the Bible, but you're singing them because they're in Christian music, whether or not you know it.

20. 6:22

    Right? I mean, I found that out and went, oh, my goodness, what am I doing? You know, what am I singing? You know? So there's bizarre ideas about why we're saved through the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. One of those ideas is called substitution. Substitution is a crazy idea that makes about as much sense as this cartoon, which I'll give you about 30 seconds to read.

21. 6:46

    Okay? That's substitution. I'm punishing someone else. I'm punishing you for what he did. You did the wrong, but I'm punishing him. Right? That is substitution. Right? This is the idea. Right? And some people think this is righteousness. This is how God displays and shows his righteousness is this method. Okay? So Jesus was perfect.

22. 7:30

    He didn't need to die. So the reason he died is because he died because God put on him your sin. And God looked at Jesus and saw your sin and hated him and was angry at him and had wrath upon him and struck him down because he was angry at your sin that he put on Jesus.

23. 7:52

    Okay? That's the idea. That's the idea. Okay? Now, this idea can't possibly be the truth. And there's lots of reasons for that. Okay? First of all, with problems with substitution, if Jesus died instead of us, we shouldn't have to die. But we do. Right? That's your... I mean, that alone should be enough to say this idea is probably not a reasonable one.

24. 8:18

    If Jesus died instead of me, why do I still have to die? Okay? But I do. Okay? There's more problems with substitution. Okay? If he was punished for our sin, he shouldn't have been raised. But he was. Right? So if he died instead of me and God put upon him my sin, he should stay dead because that is the punishment for sin.

25. 8:46

    Why was he resurrected? Okay? Another problem with substitution. Okay? Problem number three. It contradicts the purpose of the atonement, which is to declare God's righteousness. No one would suggest that an innocent man dying in place of a guilty man was righteous. I mean, no one sees an innocent man being killed who did nothing wrong and say, well, that's righteousness right there.

26. 9:13

    That's what that is. It's not righteousness. That is the epitome of injustice. Isn't it? Okay? And the last problem, there's probably more, but these are the big four, is that it kind of provides a sinner a get-out-of-jail-free card. Right? Is that if Jesus has died for my sins, then there's no sin I could do that's greater than his sacrifice.

27. 9:48

    Therefore, I can sort of sin with impunity knowing that every sin I commit, I just have the Lord Jesus Christ has already paid the penalty for it. He's already paid the cost. It's already done. So, really, I can sin without any guilt or needing to change. So, it doesn't necessarily lead to repentance.

28. 10:07

    Maybe it does because I feel so grateful for Christ, but it doesn't lead to repentance because the system actually gets you out of any sin you need. It's all done.

29. 10:20

    So, there's these bizarre theories about the atonement, and this is one of them. Okay? So, a lot of these theories point to language in the Bible that use the word ransom. Now, who knows what a ransom is? Yeah. Yeah, Floyd. Isn't it weird like somebody can have something to pay, say they hold this ransom, which means that you pay for free?

30. 10:42

    Right. So, someone's a prisoner, and they say, I demand money to set this person free, and so I pay the money, and the person goes free. Right? Right? And so, I believe in substitution. I'm going to use verses that use this idea of ransom because I'm thinking, geez, you know, Jesus is setting free the person that's in prison, and he pays the price of my sin.

31. 11:10

    He's paid that price. And I guess, in some ways, that's true. Right? And they're going to look at verses that kind of are similar to this. Mark 10, verse 45. For the Son of Man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister and to give his life a ransom for many. And if you believe in this idea of the fact that Jesus saves you via substitution, you're going to quote this verse for sure.

32. 11:37

    Okay? Okay. So, the word ransom and redemption, they suggest that there's a price. They're price words. There's a price or a transaction. And to those that believe in substitution, it's the price of a bargain. Right? And the bargain was that God made and he substituted Jesus for the sinner. Jesus' life was the price of the bargain.

33. 12:04

    And some who use this language say, well, who is Jesus paying the ransom to? And they'd actually suggest that Jesus was paying the ransom to the devil. Right? That our first parents sold us into the hands of the devil is how this theory goes. And that God wanted to redeem us from the devil.

34. 12:25

    And so, he negotiated with the devil on the life of Jesus. And so, the devil got to kill Jesus. And we got to go free from the grave. But then, the devil got tricked. Because the devil didn't know that when Jesus died, he couldn't stay in the grave. And he got to go free too.

35. 12:42

    Right? So, the devil was duped. You think I'm joking. Right? But that is exactly how this theory goes. In a book called, Understanding the Atonement, a Christian book, a new and orthodox theory. The theory claimed that Adam and Eve sold humanity over to the devil at the time of the fall. Hence, justice required that God pay the devil a ransom to free us from the devil's clutches.

36. 13:04

    God ever tricked the devil. Because, you know, that's how God does things. Right? He tricks people. Right? So, the devil's not very smart. You know? Showing God. Job's going him who's boss. Right? God tricked him. And into accepting Christ's death as the ransom. For the devil didn't realize that Christ could not be held in the bonds of death.

37. 13:24

    Once the devil accepted Christ's death as a ransom, this theory concluded justice was satisfied. And God was able to free us from Satan's grip. Like, honestly, guys, this is what this theory implies. Okay?

38. 13:37

    So, there's got to be a better way. Now, the trouble, this pricing language like ransom and redemption makes sense if they're figurative. But they sort of fall down when they're literal. If there was literally a ransom, who am I literally playing a ransom to? Right? If it's literally a price, who am I literally playing the price to?

39. 14:01

    It sort of works on a figurative sense. But when you take it literally, it sort of falls apart a little bit. Now, I want to just contrast the idea of ransom. Now, ransom is used three times in the New Testament. The word ransom. There's another idea here, which actually shows up 61 times in the New Testament.

40. 14:20

    And that is the word forgiveness. Okay? Forgiveness. Okay? Forgiveness shows up in all these verses. Right? But forgiveness is an idea that shows up a lot in the New Testament. And here's a couple examples. Acts 13, 38. Being known to you, therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins.

41. 14:46

    How about Colossians 1, 14? In whom we have redemption through his blood. So, we use that word redemption, which implies a price. But that is the forgiveness of sins. Okay? Or 1 John 2, verse 12. I write this unto you, old children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. Okay. So, what's important about the word forgiveness is that the idea of forgiveness and the idea of ransom are completely contradictory terms.

42. 15:18

    They can't both be literal. They can't both be literal. Is that intuitive? Why they can't both be literal? Let me use a parable. My own version of one. Right? To explain to you why these things can't be literal. Okay. Let's say that you are a man that owes a huge debt to a Lord.

43. 15:39

    Right? And you go up to the Lord. And you can't pay the debt. And you beg for mercy to the Lord. And the Lord looks at you. And he graciously forgives the debt. Could you then walk away from that and say, yep, I paid the ransom? No.

44. 16:04

    You couldn't. Because when the debt is forgiven, it means the ransom wasn't paid. Okay. Contrasting this. Let's say instead that you go to the Lord because you can't pay the debt. And you're not on your knees and you say, please forgive me. And let's say someone else in the crowd hears you and feels sorry for you.

45. 16:28

    And he goes to the Lord and he says, I'll pay your debt. And he pays the debt to the Lord. Could the Lord then say, yep, I forgave that debt.

46. 16:40

    No. There's no forgiveness when the debt's been paid. Do you see how these ideas can't work together? Does this make sense to you all? Right? Those of you who read Christian books, those of you that will sing Christian music, this is super important, guys.

47. 17:04

    Okay. Those ideas are actually a contrast to one another. So, let me just, a third option. Right? So let's say the man goes in to the Lord and he begs for mercy. And then let's say that your local baron knows you. And he goes to the Lord, he says, he says to the Lord, for my sake, would you please forgive this man's debt?

48. 17:34

    On my account, for my sake. And let's say that local baron had good favor with the Lord. And the Lord says, for your sake, I will forgive this man his debt. So in that case, the debt was really forgiven. But the price that was paid was the dedicated service of the baron. Okay.

49. 17:58

    Now, by the way, all analogies fail. Okay. If you actually, the detail, all analogies fail. So we need to dig into the details here. But I'm saying there's a means by which both transaction language and forgiveness language can work together. Right? But it has to be literally forgiveness and only figuratively a transaction.

50. 18:18

    So that's what's happening. Both the idea of forgiveness and the idea of this transaction are actually mutually exclusive. They can't work together in a literal sense. And I'm saying, which do you think is literal? The forgiveness or the ransom? I'm suggesting to you the idea that the ransom is literal kind of breaks down.

51. 18:36

    Right? This idea of substitution working, it kind of breaks down. So forgiveness is probably the way that God's actually doing things. Okay. So now we need to look at some of this detail. So the Bible puts forward the case strongly that we are forgiven because Christ has achieved that forgiveness on our behalf and he represents us.

52. 19:12

    Okay. So I'm just going to write the word represent on the board. Okay. Represent. He's our representative. Okay. What's that mean? Because that's not a biblical word. Okay. So what does this word mean? Why does the Bible put forth this idea? That we are forgiven because Christ represents us. Okay. So first of all, does anyone kind of, can we get our head around what a representative is?

53. 19:51

    Right? So it's someone selected out of a group that can do things on behalf of the group. And we actually are very familiar with this idea. So, for example, if the United States president signs a trade treaty with a country, all the citizens of that country are obliged to hold up the treaty.

54. 20:16

    Okay? So he does something on our behalf and we are affected by the consequences of what he did. Does that make sense? Or if the president of an organization who represents the organization, if he signs an agreement, the whole company is bound to keep the terms of the agreement. Because the president represents everyone who's in the company.

55. 20:44

    Right? So actually, this idea of a representative of one person doing something that affects everybody else is not an uncommon idea. It's actually an idea that we work with all the time. Okay? So are there any Bible verses that give us the sense that Jesus is a representative for us in terms of what he did on the cross?

56. 21:10

    Okay? I'm going to suggest one to you. So you might want to write this one down. Romans chapter 6, verses 4 to 8. Okay?

57. 21:24

    I'd like someone to read that. Who can read that? Yeah? Go ahead. Ryan? Is that Ryan? Yeah, go ahead, Ryan. I'm going to read that. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

58. 22:33

    Wake up. Right? All right. Now, this is a key verse in this whole deal. Okay, so what do you think is the key word? What is the word that shows that Christ is a representative? There's a key word in here. Any ideas? Any ideas? Any ideas? Come on, tell me the key word in this verse.

59. 22:54

    Yes? With. Nathan, you're from New Zealand, right? Awesome, Nathan. With. With is the key word. If you're in Romans chapter 6 verses 4 and 8, this is the word to underline. This is the word to know, right? With. We are buried with him. Our old man is crucified with him. We are dead with him.

60. 23:19

    We shall live with him. With is the key word. And with is not the idea of someone doing it for you or instead of you. With is the idea of you are participating in it with him. You are with him. You are participating in this process. He doesn't do it for you. You do it.

61. 23:43

    He does do it for you. He doesn't do it instead of you. You do it with him. You guys see that those are very different things. Someone doing it instead of you. Or you doing it with him. That those are different ideas. You guys come pick up on that? Okay, I'm going to link this to you very quickly.

62. 24:04

    I'm going to make this real to you very quickly. But these are some foundation things you've got to get straight in your head. You're going to do it with him. Okay.

63. 24:21

    Alright, so. Maybe I'll write that on the board even. With. That's really critical. Okay. So. So. How do you participate in this process of atonement? How do you do it with Christ? Any ideas? How are you going to do this with Christ?

64. 24:50

    Yeah. Through baptism. Okay. That's the right answer. Okay. So firstly. You participate in this process by a faith in baptism. So. So what is baptism? Now when you baptize someone. You literally. Put them under the water. Right. And what does that represent? Death. Right. And. It's a good thing you're baptizing brother. Didn't just leave you there.

65. 25:16

    You're going straight to the kingdom. Right. That is. If you don't have a sinful thought. While you're under the water. Right. Right. No. No. They didn't leave you there. Right.

66. 25:32

    So you are. You are actually. You are actually. Participating. You are dying. Literally. And when you come out of the water. What are you. What's happening figuratively? Yeah. You are. You are symbolically being resurrected. So you are actually participating in this process. With Christ. So. I just want to harken back a little bit to.

67. 25:57

    First of all. I mean. I just want you to understand that you are symbolically doing something. That Christ did in real life. Can you just. Just pause for a moment. To think about that. You are symbolically carrying out. Something that Christ did in real life. So you are actually doing it with him.

68. 26:14

    Okay. So. Now. Going back to Romans 3. We talked about Romans 3 yesterday. What was Christ doing. On his death. When I went to Romans 3. I took us there to emphasize a certain word. And an idea. In Romans 3. And I said. When Christ is on the cross. God says this is what was happening.

69. 26:34

    He was declaring something. What was Christ declaring on the cross? Yes. The righteousness of who? The righteousness of God. So Christ is on the cross. I told you yesterday. Remember. That he's on the cross. Declaring the righteousness of God. So what do you think you are doing then. If you are participating with Christ.

70. 26:59

    What are you doing in baptism? What are you declaring? Righteousness of God. You think you are declaring the same thing? If you are doing it with him. And that's what he was doing. Don't you think that that's what you are doing too?

71. 27:20

    So you are declaring that God is righteous. Righteousness. Okay. Did you know that? Probably you did. Hopefully you did. So what are you declaring that God is right about? Okay. That's what you've done. Raise your hand if you are baptized. Lots of you. That's awesome. That is great guys. Okay. So you've all declared that God is righteous.

72. 27:41

    That's what you've done. What is God righteous about? What is God righteous about? Well there's two things the serpent said in the garden. That God is definitely right about. The serpent wasn't right about. And those two things are. The serpent said. You shall not surely die. What did you just do when you got baptized?

73. 28:08

    So what. What were you basically saying to the serpent? Ah you're wrong. Right. Christ did die. By what he inherited through Adam. Right. So God's right about that. The serpent wasn't right. What's another thing the serpent said? The serpent said. You shall be as gods. Knowing good and evil. What did Christ do?

74. 28:29

    What did Christ say? What did Christ say in the garden of Gethsemane? Say it louder Anna? Christ said. Thy will. Not mine. Be done. Do you see how Christ is actually. Contradicting the serpent. Serpent said. You're not going to die. So what did Christ have to do? You're going to die. Serpent said.

75. 28:55

    You're going to know good and evil. What does Christ have to say? I don't know what good and evil is. So Christ is undoing. What happened in the garden. Does that make sense to you all? Christ is undoing. What happened in the garden. He's saying. What that serpent said. Is wrong.

76. 29:20

    God's pretty smart. The way he put this together. Isn't he? So. Doesn't it make sense. If God's going to save us. He's going to save us. By undoing the problem. This is undoing the problem. Okay. So. When you get baptized. And you're under the water. Which is what this is supposed to indicate.

77. 29:39

    What are you saying. That God's right about. Because you've said. That God's right. Those of you that are baptized. You've said. That God's right. Okay. What did you say. That God's right about.

78. 29:52

    Kate. That's a good. That's all inclusive Kate. That's. Yeah. That is an answer. That can't possibly be wrong. That's awesome. All right. So. You're saying. God is right. And alone determining. What's good and evil. Does that make sense to you now? God is the authority. This is why I had to stress that yesterday.

79. 30:15

    I didn't just stress that yesterday. To give you a big intellectual class. Where you turn up lots of verses. Because if we can't fundamentally accept that premise. Then we can't have atonement. Because God isn't willing for you to be God too. That's a tough one. So we. So in our baptism. We're saying.

80. 30:41

    Yep. This body. This thing. It deserves to die. Why? Because God. You're right. Not me. Secondly. God is right in being God alone. You're saying that for sure. Third thing. God is right in demanding. That the body of sin. We inherited from Adam. Be put to death. God is right. In esteeming. That this thing.

81. 31:04

    Ought to die. It ought to be destroyed. You're also saying. God is right. In asking us to repent. And turn from sin. You are saying. God is right. And it's funny. When we. When we're at baptism. Sometimes. We go to the baptism. And we're so happy for the person. And we ought to be.

82. 31:23

    We want to hug them. And they're going. Oh. This is so wonderful. Everyone's loving me. And you know. And everyone's so happy for me. And me. And me. And me. Right. But what that. Actually. What's happening. Is not about you. What you are saying. Is that God is right. You are giving up you.

83. 31:50

    You are sacrificing you. You are putting your will to death. So that God. So that God. Can live. In you. By the way. I'm all for hugs. After baptisms. And all those. Wonderful things. I think that's great. But. As you're going. Under the water. As. You. Are. Under the water. If those of you.

84. 32:14

    That aren't baptized. I'll give you a thought. Because people think. What should I be thinking. You know. Am I going to be thinking. I hope. Water is going. Up my nose. Am I going to be thinking. Gosh. I'm wet. You know? I mean, what should I be thinking? I'll give you a thought, those of you that aren't baptized.

85. 32:29

    How about this? When you go under the water, right, I want you to think, God is right. How about that for a thought? How about that for a thought as you go under the waters of baptism? God is right.

86. 32:47

    Okay. The next verse that you might want to clue into on this subject, it's very similar language. Colossians 2, verses 11 to 13. In this time, I'm not going to make you guess what the key word is. I've highlighted it.

87. 33:03

    In whom also ye are circumcised, using Old Testament language here. So circumcision was the cutting off of the foreskin of the penis, right? And why that? Because probably that's where God said, hey, listen, a lot of our lustful thoughts and ideas are kind of centered in that area. So we're going to cut that off.

88. 33:20

    We're going to remove that from us. So baptism is the symbol in our age, which God wants to do that through, right? So we're going to cut something off. In whom ye are circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, and putting off of the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

89. 33:38

    Okay. So I want to be circumcised. I want to be putting off this body of sin, putting off this flesh. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened with him, having forgiven you all your trespasses.

90. 34:06

    So what's ultimately happening here is an act of forgiveness on God's part, because you have participated in the process of declaring his righteousness. That's what's happening.

91. 34:19

    God is forgiving you because you have participated in the process he has designed, which is meant to declare his righteousness over what happened in the garden and through his son. And his son alone, because he was sinless, was able to put off the body of sin and declare that was worthy of death.

92. 34:42

    Only his son could do that. And a sinless man had to do it, because if he wasn't a sinless man, he would have stayed in the grave and there wouldn't have been life. So a sinless man had to do it so he could be risen from the dead, so that life could come through that man.

93. 34:54

    So you are participating in this process. So the point of the process is not to save you. Okay? So oftentimes we'll listen to music and we'll read books and they'll talk about us being saved. And it seems like the focus is saving me. And I've been saved and my sins have been forgiven.

94. 35:17

    Right? And that's wonderful. Your sins have been forgiven. That's great. But that is a byproduct of the process of declaring God's righteousness. The purpose and the heart and soul of what God's doing is not saving you. Saving you is the consequence of the purpose of declaring His righteousness.

95. 35:39

    Okay? That's what's going on here. Right? That is the key. That is the heart and soul of what's going on. And if you want to hear a good song about it, there's one in our hymn book. It's 335. It was written by a man named Charles Ladson, who is the son-in-law of Robert Roberts.

96. 35:58

    And Charles Ladson wrote this song, wrote the words to this song. Right? And in the last verse of hymn 335, he says this. That is our understanding of the atonement. That's what that is. That's what we believe as a community the atonement is. Yes? Yes? So if you were talking to someone who's new to this group, would you talk more about how the point of baptism is to bring glory to God and to lead to God's righteousness?

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    Or would you emphasize the fact that we're saved? Because for someone who doesn't really have the context, I feel like there wouldn't really be very much incentive to declare some God's righteousness that's right. And I trust your wisdom in that. Because I trust that in the process of uncovering the truth over time, as all of us, myself included, are all in that process, that your wisdom will say to which parts of the truth ought I to bring someone to first.

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    Knowing that it's a journey. And knowing that you're not going to leave them with only part of the truth. Or else they're going to open the book of Romans and get real confused. And you don't want that either. Right?

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    Okay. So, this key word is for. Christ died for you. By faith you died with him. That's what we're talking about. By Christ died for you. And by faith you died with him. That's the Bible concept. Another way of putting that is, Christ represents you. By faith you participate.

100. 38:11

     Okay. So, so, why should this be what God requires of us? Why should it be that God requires us to declare his righteousness as a basis of forgiveness? Well, imagine God trying to forgive on another basis. Let me give you another basis for forgiveness. Donald Trump is an example. Hey God, you're wrong, but please forgive me.

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     Is that one going to work? Should that be the basis on God forgives? If you don't want God to forgive you on the basis of his righteousness, would you like God to forgive you on the basis that he's wrong? Or how about, I think I'm God too, but let's be one anyway. Is that going to work?

102. 38:59

     You can see that actually, logically, there's no other basis on which God can forgive other than his righteousness and his oneness. Okay. So, the very best summary of this whole idea, the very best summary, is in a booklet called The Blood of Christ, written by Robert Roberts. It's not very long, about 30 pages or something like this.

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     Right? It is a wonderful, wonderful summary of what we believe. Right? And it was written in very approachable language. It wasn't written in a way to confuse or obfuscate. It was written to be as clear as possible and use as simple language as possible. And honestly, like in our CYC, back in Christchurch, we went through this thing, you know, over the course of eight or nine weeks.

104. 39:45

     One section at a time is led by Brother Nathan Lewis. Right? So that everyone in our CYC understood how this thing logically flows. It's an excellent idea for a CYC class. You know, have a brother from your meeting take you through it. Don't go fast. Go slow section by section. Okay? But this is what, this is the summary of Robert Roberts' discussion on this.

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     subject. Okay? He says, this is the literal issue of the whole matter. God's supremacy having been vindicated, we talked about that, a foundation had been laid on which he can offer forgiveness without compromise of wisdom and righteousness.

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     He does not offer it or allow it apart from submission to the declaration of his righteousness in Christ crucified. There must be a most humble identification with that declaration. Baptism in our age is provided as the means of that identification. The believer is baptized into his death and buried with him in baptism.

107. 40:50

     Then receives the forgiveness of all his sins through the forbearance of God who is pleased with the conformity of the form of humility he has provided. So we need to humble ourselves. Right? The whole problem is we're asserting ourselves to be God too. So God says you need a process by which you humble yourself.

108. 41:10

     The whole sacrificial institution ! and our endorsement of it in baptism is comparable to a form of apology presented by the majesty of heaven as the condition of our receiving his mercy into life eternal. The object secured is the triumphant assertion and recognition of God's supremacy and man's abasement as a dependent beneficiary.

109. 41:34

     Thus law and mercy are reconciled. That's it. Guys? That's it. That is as simply as I've ever seen it defined. That's what your baptism is all about. Those who got baptized that's what you're doing. Those who are not yet baptized that's what you will be doing.

110. 41:59

     Okay? So okay that brings us to an important point. I don't think I have much time but this is like the most important thing. Right? Which is the thing that our head still has trouble with right? Is this question. Okay that's all good. Right? I can see God's righteousness yada yada yada. Right?

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     Okay. But why would God want to save me? Ever had that question? Why would God want to save me? And the answer is what do you mean by me?

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     That seems what you mean. What do you mean what I mean by me? I mean me. I know I don't I mean me. Well it's not so simple. Right? What do you mean by me? Let me take you to Romans chapter 7. For the good that I would I do not. Everyone relate with that?

113. 42:58

     But the evil I would not that I do. Anyone relate with that? Okay. Now if I do that I would not it's no longer I that do it but sin that dwelleth in me. So what Paul is saying is there's like these two things inside of him. There's a thing that wants to do right which he calls I or me and there's a thing that wants to do wrong and he calls that sin.

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     He says within me there's these two forces almost. This thing that wants to do wrong and there's this thing that wants to do right. And my question is which of those can everyone identify with that by the way? Can everyone identify with this thing that wants to do right and this thing that wants to do wrong?

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     Does that make sense to everybody? Right? Y'all know what that's about? When I say y'all in New Zealand they make fun of me. Y'all just think it's normal. It's great. Right? So there's this thing inside of you that wants to do wrong and there's this thing inside of you that wants to do right and Paul is saying which one is me?

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     Which one is me? So Paul asks a very similar question to what you're asking. Oh wretched man that I am. Right? Anyone felt that way? Oh wretched man that I am. Who shall deliver me from the body of death?

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     So what Paul's doing is he's saying I have this body of death. It wants to do the wrong thing. It compels me to do the wrong thing. Who's going to save me from it? So who does Paul identify the me as? Is the me the body of sin or is the me that which wants to do what's right?

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     Paul's me is the part that wants to do God's will and he wants to save me from the body of death. The very next verse says there is therefore no now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Well who is in Christ Jesus? Is it me or is it the body of death?

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     Who is in Christ Jesus? Guys what's going to happen at the judgment seat guys? At the judgment seat you're going to present yourself in front of the Lord and he's going to see everything.

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     He's going to see the good and he's going to see the bad. He's going to see the me he's going to see the body of sin.

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     But if you are accounted worthy to go into eternal life what goes into eternal life? does the part of you that wants to sin does the part of you that's the body of death does the part of you that identifies as a wretch is that going to go into eternal life?

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     No. What's going to happen to that part? it is going to die and go into the grave and stay there forever. So when you say why would God want to save me what's happening is you are identifying the me with the body of death. You're saying the body of death is me. don't ever let that be you.

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     You know I've done a lot of sinning let me tell you you know in ways that I don't even want to talk about it's so embarrassing you know and I felt that same way why would God want to save me until I realized by asking that question what I was doing is I was assuming that the point of what God was doing in atonement and saving me was saving me like I was the object I was the purpose of the atonement I was the reason he was doing this he was doing it to save me I was going well that's a bad idea what an unworthy cause that is but that's not what God's doing what God's going to do is in my life and in your life he is conforming you to the image of what?

124. 47:59

     Say it louder you know it his son he's conforming so imagine a gingerbread man and you push it into the dough right and out comes this man well that man is Christ and he's got to cut away all the things that aren't Christ and what goes into life is Christ God's not saving you he's saving the part of you that is like Christ and the things of you that are not like Christ will be destroyed and who do you identify with?

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     do you identify with the piece that was pressed in? do you identify with the man that was pressed into the dough the gingerbread man or do you identify with all the rest of the stuff that's cast away? God's not saving you he's saving the part of you that's like him and the purpose of this life is to make more and more and more more of you like him and to conform you into that shape and he's going to throw away the rest because he doesn't want to save the part that's not like him so the part of you that says why would God have saved me?

126. 49:12

     God's not going to save that part that part's not going to eternal life that part's going to die the question is what part of you what part of you is like his son because that's what he is going to save so we are not at the center of God's work is the center of God's work saving me or is the center of God's work his righteousness and the center of God's work is his righteousness he's going to save the part that's like him so God manifestation the the is the attitude of mind of every believer that understands God's purpose with the atonement.

127. 50:07

     Let me say that again. God manifestation is the attitude of mind of every believer that understands God's purpose with the atonement. God's purpose of the atonement is not to save you. God's purpose of the atonement is to save the part of you that's like Him. And in this life, to compress more and more and more of you into the mold that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

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     And the rest, it's going to get destroyed anyways. Or as John Thomas put it, men were not ushered into being for the purpose of being saved or lost. God manifestation, not human salvation, was the great purpose of the eternal spirit.

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     So, guys, I know this was a heavy class, and last time was a heavy class, and lots of scriptures. But here's what I want you to have gathered from this. I want you to understand now what happened when you got baptized. I want you to understand now what God is trying to do for you in this life.

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     I want you to understand the reason that God saves you. So, if you ever ask the question, why does God want to save me, you got the question wrong. The question is, how can God conform more of me to the image of His Son because He will save who is in Christ.

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     It's not about you. It's about God's righteousness, and that's the basis, and the foundation, and the structure upon which this is all built, and we can be saved, and we can have hope, and that hope does not depend on you.

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     Young people, these are things I wish I knew when I was your age. I hope you grab hold of these principles. They not only are the keys of our salvation, but they are also what make us distinctly different to every other group that holds out the Bible as a hope of salvation. Our understanding of the atonement and what God is doing for His own sake to declare His righteousness in you.

133. 52:37

     Thanks. Thanks. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the