359: Podcast Showcase - Faith Works

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:00

   Hello, this is Brother Chris. As mentioned in our previous episode, we have something special planned for the month of August and this is going to be the first episode of that as we are coming up on the eighth year of doing good Christadelphian talks. One of the things that I’ve been super encouraged about personally and been able to see is all the other podcasts that are out there by Christadelphians that have been popping up both around the same time we did and also in the last several years.

2. 0:28

   So for this month, we are going to be highlighting 4 different Christadelphian podcasts that have been published. We will be picking a specific episode from that podcast about your appetite and get you started, but our general recommendation is just to subscribe and listen to these podcasts as well. They’re different from what good Christadelphian Talks are, but they are super encouraging and we wanted to just raise the profile and make sure that everybody knows about them because they are awesome to be able to listen to. For this week specifically, we’re listening to an episode from the Faith Works podcast, which is done by two brothers from the Enfield Ecclesia in Adelaide, Australia. I won’t go too much into explaining what the point of their podcast is because we’re going to leave the introduction in so you can hear it just as if you were listening to their episode.

3. 1:19

   This specifically is their third episode where they have an interview with brother Josh Kempster talking about the judgment seat, but they also have stuff that they talk about at the beginning. So I would encourage you to listen to all of it and enjoy it. I got to meet brother George Richards, who’s one of the brothers that does it, and really enjoy chatting with him and being able to talk to him about starting this podcast and what he and brother Remy Wigzel do as they record it.

4. 1:47

   So it was super fun to be able to talk with them at the Ottawa Bible School just this past week. And I hope that you find this as encouraging and is exciting to listen to as I have. I’ve loved all the episodes that they’ve done. So I would encourage you to subscribe as well. And if you have any feedback for them or anything that you enjoy about it, feel free to reach out to them as well. They mention how to contact them in the opening of their podcast episode that we’re playing here.

5. 2:15

   So I hope that you find both this particular episode and the ones through the rest of the month of August to be encouraging and a change from what we’ve been doing. We have a bunch of exciting things planned for good Christalphine talks as well coming up. But this is our special kind of summer thing that we do.

6. 2:34

   Normally would be in the month of July, but this time because of obviously all the coordination with the other podcasts and getting permission to be able to share their stuff on here, we had to push it a little bit until August. But I hope that you find all of these encouraging. And so with that, we are going to roll right into the introduction for episode 3 of the Faith Works podcast.

7. 2:58

   Faith Works is a podcast where young voices explore faith, reason and rule life application of Scripture. It is designed as a forum for open and easy listening, Bible discussion and is rooted in conversation and discovery. Faith Works bridges generations encouraging thoughtful dialogue and practical faith in action. Welcome to Faith Works.

8. 3:31

   Well, welcome everyone. We’re actually recording this the same week we released our first episode. So we just want to have, we just want to give a big shout out to everyone who listened to Episode 1 A. Lot of good feedback. We received a lot of lessons as well, so that’s been good. Thanks for the feedback and support from everyone really. Yeah, and keep the feedback coming. It’s good stuff.

9. 3:53

   I think you can comment in Spotify, yeah. We’ve had a few comments already, so thanks again to those guys, they know who they are. Yeah, that’s it. And we’ll start writing out the five star comments. Thanks, brother. Craig Stein. I think there’s also an e-mail address that people can. Yeah, that’s in the show notes.

10. 4:10

    So if you’ve got anything you want to address to us, feel free to e-mail us in the at our Gmail account in the show notes. And if you’re under 45, we’re also on Instagram now, which is, that is true. So you can also message us by Instagram. Yeah, that’s pretty cool as well. So thanks everyone for the feedback. You’ll probably notice some things change as the podcast goes on and that is based off your feedback. So we do really appreciate the feedback. So keep it coming even even if you’ve got suggestions on. We’d love to hear them.

11. 4:43

    Topics and speakers and whatever else that’d be, that’d be great. So. But just like most weeks, we’ll get cracking into what was once called current events, but is now called what George? Current of threads, pretty good. It’s a little bit of a play on words because what we’re going to be doing is we’re going to be giving our current events segment a bit more of a structure so it can really follow, as it were, a story. So we’ve got these threads, so to speak, current of threads, a current of threads, maybe even.

12. 5:14

    So we’re going to be looking, and the way that we’ve based this is we’re going to be sort of telling stories week in, week out about what’s going on around the world, but looking specifically at the players fan in Ezekiel 38, which is basically Armageddon, isn’t it? R.E.M. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So who?

13. 5:31

    Who are the key players in Ezekiel 30? Eight, we have Schieber and Deidan. We have the ships of Tarsus, obviously have Gog, Magog, Yeah. Any more other ones that are missing there, George? Yeah, and obviously the key players where all happens, Armageddon all happens, which is on the the mountains of Israel, the unwalled villages, as Ezekiel 38 calls them.

14. 5:53

    So what we’re going to be doing from now on is just having this structure where we really look at all the players. And just follow them. And we’re just going to follow them basically to Kingdom come. It would be awesome if we’re given this podcast and the Angel knocks at the door, like how would that be? That would just be amazing.

15. 6:13

    It all happening in front of our eyes. So as we go week in, week out, we’re going to be seeing these different players in the lead up to Armageddon. That’s that’s sort of our vision for this segment. So. All before the felt, the shaves are gathered in the valley for judgement. Yeah, that’s right. So that’ll be really exciting just to see all this out play. And I think and maybe even this week could be a little bit like that.

16. 6:36

    But there might be some small things which don’t really seem to fit in with the big picture. But I think we’ll be able to look back one in time and just see how it’s all unfolded. Yeah, yeah. Over the weeks. So like R.E.M. said, we’ve got a few different players. Is it you with 38? Verse 2 talks about this confederacy, which is most people will know but if you don’t it is basically this confederacy made-up of the European nations headed from a military perspective by Gog and Gog basically is interpreted as being one at the top.

17. 7:13

    So the later and he’s the chief pre Prince of of Meshach and Tubal. And we can go feel free to if you’ve got any questions about this segment, feel free to e-mail us or whatever. But for the sake of time, basically that refers to ancient times Russia. So Russia is going to be the head of this Confederacy, particularly the military. Military.

18. 7:38

    I don’t know why I said it. Military, the military aspect of the beast, knowing that the religious aspect, which is also going to bring it together like we see in Daniel 2, with the iron in clay being the Pope, which Revelation talks about as well. So one thread we’re always going to be looking at Russia and what’s going on there particularly. There’s always a lot going on with them as well and kind of current events, so that’s always good to watch. Always and just saying the formation of this beast, again, bringing back the old boundaries of, you know, the Russian Federation, you know, they’ve gone into Georgia and now they’re going into Ukraine.

19. 8:20

    So we’ll see what happens from that perspective as well. So we’ll be looking at at the story there with Russia, particularly in their war with Ukraine. As we say them. We’re going to be looking at Israel, which is obviously central to the Bible. And like Rams already mentioned, we’ll be looking at those who will oppose or try and impose this, this confederacy.

20. 8:40

    And that’s made-up of Sheba and D Dan and the Young Lions as God is basically drawing them. And Ezekiel uses the word basically being drawn to this place in Israel and God through current events and whatever else, is bringing all these different powers to Israel like his prophesied. So just to kick things off this week, we’ve seen something that’s maybe flown a little bit under the radar, but is also pretty interesting, and it’s the Houthis.

21. 9:11

    Interesting. Have you heard of the Houthis? I have not heard of the Houthis. Yeah. So the Houthis, they’re they’re what we call Shia Muslims. They’re a particular branch of Islam and they are located on the Arabian Peninsula in a, in a country called Yemen. So I heard of Yemen. You’ve heard of Yemen?

22. 9:33

    Yep. Yemen So directly below Israel in the Arabian Peninsula is Saudi Arabia, which basically makes up about 80% of the peninsula. And right below that is Yemen. So it’s about 1000 KS away from Israel and they’ve been using these long range missiles and drones and whatever else to attack Israel because they’re the whole we stand with Palestine type thing.

23. 9:57

    They’re on the same side of the Islamic faith, interestingly enough, their war a bit with Saudi Arabia as well. And they they are Sunni Muslims, which are more aligned with Sheba and Daidan, as we’ve seen in Ezekiel 38. So they’re at war. We’re beginning to see these powers emerge, you know, the friends and the enemies of Israel. But the interesting thing, and we don’t want to spend too much time on it, this is really just meant to be pretty quick, is that they’re also beginning to control the Red Sea. So they have control over the Red Sea because the Arabian Peninsula, yeah, links with the Red Sea. And they’ve got control of northern and western Yemen, which actually includes the capital. So they’re pretty well in control of Yemen at the moment. And what they’re doing is they’re really impacting trade through the Red Sea.

24. 10:43

    Oh, interesting. So what’s been happening of light is the UK and the US, who are commonly known as Israel’s allies, have been sending strikes to these Houthi rebels, which are backed by Iran, who are also Shia Muslims. So they’ve been back in Yemen and the Houthis and whatever else. And the Houthis would be nowhere without Iran. And they know, you know, they’ve been out of strike Israel from 1000 KS and actually do some damage. And the only way they could do that would be through Iran supporting them.

25. 11:16

    But what’s been happening more so of late is the fact that Trump has made a deal with the Houthis where he will stop protecting Israel so that the Houthis will stop attacking ships coming through the Red Sea, really, which is pretty interesting. So Trump, who’s always very pro Israel at the at the moment, is basically letting.

26. 11:41

    Letting them do what they want. Have their way with Israel in that sense so they won’t attack, you know, the tribe, the trade going through going through the Red Sea there. So that’s pretty interesting. So I think we sometimes look at Trump and we think, oh, he’s, you know, God’s using him to protect Israel. But I think this is an example of where we see Trump really just serving himself.

27. 12:02

    You know what we’re? Doing again what’s best for America because that’s all he hears. What? Right now? Yeah. That’s right. So that’s really what’s going on. Obviously the whole Gaza crisis is ongoing, but the Houthis, you know, as they stand with Palestine, while this has all been going on, they’ve also been attacking Israel.

28. 12:18

    So that’s really what’s happening in the in the Holy Land at the moment. Other pretty interesting news as well is the whole escalation of the crisis between Pakistan and India. And this is another interesting, I guess dichotomy, if you like, because India’s always been seen in Bible prophecy or by the Christadelphians has been pro Israel was part of the Commonwealth, the Young Lions who will oppose this Gogi invasion and Pakistan is is Muslim as well. So I was saying this, this battle between these two parties and this is also current events.

29. 13:02

    It’s also prophecy opening up in our eyes because we have seen such a extended period of peace between these two nations, which in times gone by, we’re always at war with each other. We’ve seen a pretty extended period of peace between the two countries, but now we’re just saying war. So there’s this conflict going between Pakistan and India.

30. 13:23

    And I just, I went through brother Andy Bolton’s worldwide watch that he has, which is really good to to look at for just keeping yourself up to date with current events where he quotes from the Daily Telegraph basically saying this long period of peace between the two nations is over. And now we’re ushering in this new era of war, which hasn’t been seen for some time. And the Bible prophecies when Christ returns back to the earth that there’s going to be wars all over the place and these new conflicts just escalating out of hand. And Trump is also is a busy man, but Trump’s also involved in this one too because both these countries have nuclear weapons. So this has the potential to become nuclear. Nuclear war, Yeah.

31. 14:09

    Wow. And that’s unlike with anything we’ve really seen before a nuclear war. Correct. We’re saying things we’ve never seen before and that can only oh excitedly, hopefully can only mean one thing and that is Jesus Christ returning back to the earth. In other news as well, we’re saying Russia sort of flexing their muscles during parades through Saint Petersburg and whatever I was in and Moscow and then in in Europe, Trump again brokering these peace deal was with Ukraine and her allies. And that’s the, the, the tide is sort of shifting a little bit now.

32. 14:46

    He, him and JD Vance, who’s the vice president there in the US, they’re becoming quite frustrated with Russia because Putin’s standing his ground. He doesn’t want peace at any terms, on any terms. So while Trump is bringing all these European nations together with Ukraine and trying to break this peace deal, Trump isn’t batting an ally.

33. 15:10

    And so they’re getting pretty frustrated with that. And finally, big news. The Catholic system is about to announce their new Pope. So pretty exciting to see where they go with that and how their choice of new Pope impacts the world’s landscape. Especially from revelations here that unfolds. That’s going to be a big part of how, yeah, this whole thing escalates.

34. 15:33

    So that’s that is our current of threads. Great debut. Great debut for current of Threads, George. I was really fascinating to be honest, to see the things going on in this world and just the amount of content there from just a few weeks of, of what’s going on in the world is actually quite distressing to be honest. Like if you had no hope, it’s quite sad saying that in every aspect of the world, in every country in like economically and socially and politically, how much is going on that’s so bad and negative is actually quite upsetting and and sad. But for Bible believers, like, you know, everyone listening right now, it’s actually gives us great comfort knowing that God is working in the kingdoms of man to bring about his plan and purpose.

35. 16:13

    So I guess jumping into our thought from a talk then for this week I’ve taken back the reigns from George. And this week I’ve spoken I’m going to speak about a series I heard by by brother Ben Brinkerhoff and he has it on on resentment and the story of Judah. And I have really, really loved these series or these talks, and I’ve actually shared them with a few people because I believe the story of Judah is actually quite fascinating.

36. 16:41

    And if you don’t know it so well, I’d suggest you familiarize yourself with it. But this is a few things I’ve taken from his his first talk, which I believe is called the seeds of resentment. And there’s some one liners here. He says hurt people tend to hurt people the way they’ve been hurt.

37. 16:58

    And it seems a bit clunky there. But what like that’s so true is in all of our lives. If if you’ve been hurt in a certain way before, you feel justified in reciprocating those. Those feelings are the people. And just like in Judah’s life, the example he saw of Jacob loving his mum Leah less than he loved Joseph’s mum Rachel, he kind of impacted that. And, and that made him feel justified in the way he sort of perceived people in his life.

38. 17:24

    And that definitely had an impact on him in his life. And how he treated Joseph in return. Yeah, exactly. And how older brothers really treated. But even, you know, the way he treated, you know, his kids growing up, he, he didn’t really, he had that same view as really how Jacob viewed them.

39. 17:42

    And it naturally that that is, if you’ve sort of gone through that, that battle and someone’s hurt you in a way, naturally you feel justified and you’ll reciprocate those feelings to other people. But another one here that I really liked from him that he that he put that I’ve actually really resonated with and felt like he’s been powerful to me.

40. 18:02

    And he says this, he says a form of resentment is interpreting information pessimistically, skewing information in other terms, therefore limited information, interpreting it pessimistically allows justified actions. So it’s a bit of a mouthful, but basically what that means is that the limited information you get of other people around you, what you might actually just hear, maybe it’s just a whisper or maybe it’s even a rumour because you’ve got that perception of them, you and then in turn interpret it pessimistically and in a negative way.

41. 18:31

    And because you’ve had a little rumor about a person you don’t like, that therefore means you act in a way that’s probably unrighteous and you then judge them or you spread more rumors about them. And that is the the justified actions. You think someone else has done something wrong, you don’t like them, you think they’re a bad person. So you take things into your own hands and it’s a justified in, you know, in air quotes, it’s a justified action. And that’s something that he really takes out from the story of you of Judah is that idea of taking the information from other people’s lives.

42. 19:03

    And the way that we view other people in our lives, the negative way that we’ll treat other people in our lives because we’ve heard something bad about them or, or we’ve heard a rumour about them. And, and we act completely unrighteous and we kind of lash out to other people and we, we potentially spread false rumours or we say the wrong things about them. And I felt that was really strong because I know, you know, I’ve had examples of that in my life before and sort of how that’s really the complete wrong lesson. And Judah’s story teaches that that idea of resentment to overcome.

43. 19:35

    And I think that’s something from this talk that resonated with me and something that I try to try and call out as well. It’s not just doing it in your own life, but you got to you can’t allow that those actions to take place in peoples lives as well. You have to try and stand for a try. But that’s sort of been the that thought from a talk I got this week was from was from Uncle Ben’s talks on Judah. Yeah.

44. 19:56

    And it’s all, it’s all a matter of perspective. Exactly. And I think, like you say, Judah almost didn’t stand a chance right from the word go because he saw this infighting and this hierarchy in his family from such a young age that it’s almost like he never had a chance. Yeah. Yeah. So I think our our perspective is based on how we’re moulded and how we interact with the world from a really young age. Yeah, and it is.

45. 20:24

    It’s remarkable to see the story of Judah unfold because you think about how how many issues they had in Jacob’s family and and Joseph’s family and how many things that went wrong. But yet God still worked through the 12 tribes, the 12 sons, the 12 tribes of Israel. And that goes all the way through the Old Testament. And even though it was wrong, they’re still, you know, described as in the Kingdom as like inheriting that land. And like, it’s the fact that God, no, no matter how messed up the family was, God still somehow worked through them to bring about his plan and purpose. And again, Uncle Ben made that point clear. And I think that’s it.

46. 20:54

    That was a pretty strong point taken away from that. But that’s our thought from the talk, from the way we’ve now going to have a conversation with Josh, which was actually a really good conversation on the judgement seat. He did rephrase. Sorry, reshape. I’d say my thinking a little bit on the judgement seat.

47. 21:10

    It was a really uplifting conversation and and it was really, really great to get into it and I think you’ll probably get a lot out of it, just like George and I did. Yeah, he went to some quotes that I’ve never even seen before. Yeah, exactly. That just broadened both our horizons, looking at the judgement and how we can the judgement can be something that we can actually look forward to. Yeah, to not give too much away.

48. 21:32

    Exactly. Yeah. All right, let’s jump into that now. Welcome to our next segment and this segment is called What’s Your Study? And this week we have Josh Kempster joining with us very. Excited. To have Josh. Well, thanks Randy and George, I actually am pretty excited about this. All right, good. We put it off a couple of weeks.

49. 21:58

    Yeah, it’s taken a while to get here, but we’re finally made it. That’s it. We’ve, we’ve bought it together. Anyway, Josh, do you mind giving us a bit of an introduction about yourself? Sure. Well, you’ve said my name. That’s pretty key one. What about? Your second name. Yes, well, actually, funny thing, my second name is an indication to how original my parents were.

50. 22:18

    They named they gave me the same second name as my dad and I gave my brother the same second name as well. So we all have the name James and my sisters are both have the middle name Jane which is the same as my mum so. There’s there’s two boys with James and there’s 2 girls with Jane. Both of which are are parents middle names as well. Fantastic.

51. 22:38

    My parents are even less original, we don’t even have middle names. OK, 27. Thoughts of thought so. I was 27. I go to Woodville Ecclesia in Adelaide, get to see Raymond George fairly often. This is quite a treat. What else do you want to know about me? I guess probably that’s, that’s a good introduction to I guess who you are and this topic. I guess you probably want to introduce that because this is an exciting one.

52. 23:09

    This is something that I don’t think I’ve really had much on. There’s one that comes to mind particularly on it, but I wanted you to give us a good instruction to what it is. All right, so the subject that I’ve been studying a bit, which came from some questions I had, but also a talk I was asked to do. There was good resurrection and judgement that they wanted to focus mainly on the judgement seat, which was why I I also wanted to focus on that because IA lot of questions about that. And I think some sometimes I just didn’t really gel in my head.

53. 23:39

    Things like, you know, why is there a judgement seat if like God knows exactly who we are? What’s the whole, the reason for this process? What’s it actually look like? And you know, if we say we’re saved by grace, why do we go so much into works things like that? And you know, where is the judgement seat?

54. 24:01

    Are there really angels involved? Are we at like some big campsite at Sinai? Yeah, all those sort of questions got me interested in it. I wouldn’t claim to have all the answers, but. Yeah, and that’s the thing that’s probably worth mentioning is, is there’s a lot that we still don’t know about the judgement scene.

55. 24:19

    Like we know that it will occur. We know roughly the time frame when Christ returns. But there’s a lot of things that we still kind of in the dark on because it’s not really up. Like it’s something so far out of our control. We’re not the ones judging. It’s ultimately in God, God in Christ’s hand, and it’s something that we’re just going to be participating in and we’re just going to be beneficiaries of, you know, judge righteous or judge unrighteous, I guess, as well. Yeah.

56. 24:45

    So what what would your perception of the judgement say have been growing up like? Was it, you know, did your ideas kind of what were they falling above what your family or what your parents taught you or what your you heard from the platform at your meeting? What was sort of your perception of the judgement and did that change over time?

57. 25:05

    I think I don’t know about you, but I couldn’t pin if it was exactly like parents or ecclesia or not, but some of the like core memories of that formulated my picture of the judgement. So it would be some meditations that I might have heard, like ecclesial events or Bible school or young people’s events where we get this picture like where lined up, we’re in camps and we sit down with an Angel in a tent in front of sign up Mount Sinai and we’re going through our lives and it’s this like long year, years long process. And one day it’s your turn after going through your whole life. I couldn’t pin.

58. 25:46

    I think those sort of things are the where where people have dramatised it, not claiming that that’s actually exactly how it worked, but tried to dramatise it to get us into the mode of the power of what it would be like to be accepted versus the dread to be rejected. I think people have dramatized and that became like almost fact in my head that then one day I’ll line up and see someone go one way and someone go another after talking it through with an Angel.

59. 26:14

    Is it like, what about, is it something that maybe perhaps younger, it was something you feared? Is that if that’s an appropriate term to use? Because for some, for a lot of people, it’s still, it’s an intimidating topic. Yeah, I’m actually probably on the wrong side of this. Like I think that I’ve never feared enough in a way. And I know that sounds wrong.

60. 26:38

    Like we’re now in like a lot of people encourage us to don’t fear the judgement seat, but there obviously is something to fear about the judgement seat. Rejection is a scary thing, but I funnily enough, have never considered it enough to like really be terrified or fearful at the thought. Whereas I know I’ve talked to other people and I’ve talked to Annie, my sister, that was like always her probably biggest fear when she was young. It was rejection at the judgement seat. It just wasn’t something that was in my consciousness. But I think there is there is some level of fear that we are told from various Bible quotes that people do have for for the judgement seat.

61. 27:17

    Do you feel then that your perception has changed and over time, or it’s almost been strengthened by what you already know? Probably a little bit changed over time, yeah. But like, there’s, there’s some details like of the stuff that I was just talking about that definitely we, we don’t have any biblical basis for.

62. 27:36

    So my perception of the judgement seat has probably become more pared back just to the bare bones of what we do know. And the rest we’ll find out, I think. Amazing. Yeah. Did you feel yourself having to sort of because you said you did it for a youth group talk, did you feel yourself having to sort of censor to a degree or you just told them straight, but this is what the judgement is.

63. 28:01

    This is what the Bible tells us. Yeah, I didn’t feel like I have to censor. I’d really probably censor what I say enough. The thing that I actually focused on it could have, it could have been like a multi part series, but it was just one youth group. And I think the thing I really wanted to get across that was eye opening to me was the purpose of the judgement seat.

64. 28:20

    Because that’s one of the big questions, it seems when when if you were to pose the question like what’s the purpose of the judgement seat, it’d seem obvious. Like it would you’d say to separate the righteous from the unrighteous. Sure, that’s like definitely the main objective, but why do we go about why does Christ God go about it in the way that he does?

65. 28:42

    Because there’s a lot of quotes that mention things like giving account at the judgement seat of Christ. Why do we have to give account? Why does anyone have to give some sort of account? Isn’t it gives you like a courtroom type setting where you got your lawyers on one side and you’re trying to justify yourself And why is there like different questions? Why do we go through our works?

66. 29:07

    If that’s a picture that we have of the judgement seat when we say that we’re saved by grace and not works. So the purpose then I think and my favorite quote that I now go to or the a pair of quotes I go to in on that front is Romans 14. There’s quite a lot about the judgement seat, which made a challenging study in itself because it’s it’s sort of spread all over the place.

67. 29:34

    There’s no one going here for the judgement seat. But Romans 14 verse 10 to 12, I think are the ones that the verses that I really like to pick it up. Why does that judge? So the context is like weak and strong brother, but that’s also kind of a can stand alone outside the context of it as well.

68. 29:57

    It does say, for we must, we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. For it is written, as I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. So there it says, as I live, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue confess to God.

69. 30:16

    It’s quoted from Isaiah 45 and I’ve never really made that connection before that it’s comes from Isaiah 45. But I love the way Paul often just throws in and a quote reverse and the context actually unlocks what he’s saying even more than just the verse that he picks. Because if you go to the next verse in Isaiah 45, so Isaiah 4523 says the whole context is a judgement seat picture because it says assemble yourselves and come draw near together.

70. 30:50

    The ye that are escaped to the nations, which is us we’re we’re escaped out of the nations. That’s verse 20. But then verse 2322 look unto me and be saved all the ends of the earth, for I am a God, I’m God, and there is none else. And verse 23 is the verse that pull quotes.

71. 31:08

    I’ve sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue confess. For what purpose verse 24 says, surely shall one say in the Lord have thy righteousness and strength even to him shall men come and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. So the purpose of the judgement state then in my mind the the shortened version after all of that rambling is that someone can say, surely in Yahweh have thy righteousness and strength. It’s not mine, it’s not anything of me. So the whole process that builds up to that has to get us to the point where we go like genuinely with all our heart and soul realize, yeah, I’m nothing.

72. 31:53

    We say that now we know that’s where we need to get. But are we truly there in in our heart? Have we got to the point where we go only in God do I have righteousness and strength. And those that aren’t prepared to say that all those that are incensed against him that would be ashamed. Well, that would be those that have weeping and gnashing of teeth.

73. 32:16

    Yeah, that’s such a good point actually, because like I think about George and I was speaking about this before the show started about how it feels at times up and and not to take anything like away from God’s master plan. But it feels like an our current day and age that it feels like an old wives tale of the Bible, the story of it God, because our society is so modern and new. It seems like so different from like God’s plan and purpose. But that whole point of it being like man has to recognize his position before God.

74. 32:48

    That is such a great point because it’s so hard even as Bible believers just to stay humble, like to have that humble and contrite spirit. It’s like it feels so challenging because the more you do think about it, the more you can always think like it’s the opposite. Like you think you’re humble, you’re not.

75. 33:03

    And so it’s like it’s, it’s almost impossible to get to that point of recognizing. And it’s that similar to in Exodus when Moses goes before or when God speaks to Moses, the whole plan of the Exodus was to know that that they shall know that I am God. And like his power was actually demonstrated in the earth. And it’s that same ideas that God had to bring Pharaoh and Egypt to its knees through such a disastrous event. And obviously the judgement isn’t as playwritten as that, but it’s the same like attitude and the same idea of knowing God, that we have to know opposition before God’s throne. 100% yeah.

76. 33:41

    There’s the purpose of the judgement seat is no different to the rest of the purpose of God with the earth. It’s to bring, it’s to make man humble and God’s glory shine. It’s to fill the earth with his glory. And if any man, any person got into the judgement seat without first sorry, got into the Kingdom or gained immortality without first recognizing that only in God, our righteousness and strength, then there’s some bit of man’s glory in there.

77. 34:06

    But that has to be removed. That’s true. Yeah, I’ve heard. Excuse me, the judgement has almost been this final, this final testing phase, if that’s the right word for it. But yeah, that that final proving the final going through the fire in a sense to to say, because, you know, the Bible says no flesh shall glorify themselves before me. It’s almost like that final appreciation, that final humility, because I think, you know, in our lives today, it’s quite difficult to submit ourselves before God. Because I think the thing about the judgement said is everything will be quite will be open and honest with with God before God. And it’ll be very physical and visual. And it’s almost like it’s this final testing the triangle of our faith.

78. 35:00

    Yeah, the there’s no, like when Christ returns, there’s nothing you can do to change whether you’ll be in the Kingdom or not. But there’s further character affinement that can definitely be done. Like we’re not, we’re not all those people who are transformed people and ready for the the Kingdom of God or, sorry, ready for Christ’s return and not necessarily ready for the Kingdom of God.

79. 35:26

    There’s a there’s a process that still needs to be developed to be brought through the through the fire. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Good point. Do you find this topic because it’s so like it’s so hard to implement this topic into like a daily life like it’s so hard to be like thinking about Oh yeah, judgement. Say, you know, going down Grenfell St. on your way to work because it’s such like it because it’s and it’s the return of Christ stage.

80. 35:52

    Do you ever feel, have you being able to think about that and like meditate on some of the things that you’ve studied in this, in this passage during your days? Yeah, yeah, there’s probably two things that have actually been one of the more life changing studies that I’ve done out of this. One is that we know that God says that all the work, the hidden works of darkness and all the councils of the heart will be revealed, and also that at every man’s work will be made manifest.

81. 36:23

    So at the judgement seat, everyone will be shown for what they really are and every single work will be shown, whether it was a work that should be burned up or whether it was a work that was tried. And that comes down to what was in the councils of the heart. So that’s the first thing on a practical point of view, if you think, did I say already the quote like some men’s sins go beforehand, whereas others.

82. 36:48

    Yeah, so there’s that quote as well. Some men’s sins go beforehand and others go after judgement. I think it’s first Timothy 5. That basically means some people will be shown for what they are. Some people’s sins will be exposed here and now. And that’s a, we know of that happening in our, like in our circles in Christadelphia people. There’s some people who’ve done horrible things, but they come back from that.

83. 37:15

    But I almost imagined they’ve got, they’re going to have an easier time at judgement because we’ve all got those things that we hide. There’s the hidden counsels of the heart. And it’s just means that it’s going to be a bit of a rougher burning stage for the rest of us. Some of them have kind of gone through that humiliation process now.

84. 37:32

    Yeah, that’s such a good point. I’ve never even thought about that sort of thing before. Yeah, because someone said to me the other day that the judgement say isn’t about humiliating us, but I actually would disagree with that and say it is about humiliating us. We’re meant to be made absolutely humble. It’s that’s and it sounds like it’s different from belittling, but it’s humiliating.

85. 37:57

    And the second practical thing, the more more practical thing I’d say that I’ve learned is that that means that there are hidden things that I probably don’t even realise that I’ve done wrong. That when I come to the judgement seat and you know, whatever the judgement process is exactly, whether that involves an Angel or Christ exposing my works, there’ll probably be things that he says that I was like, whoa, I just did that without thinking.

86. 38:22

    That’s wrong, that’s immoral. And that process has led me to think and self examine a lot more about everything I do. Things like everyday things that I do. Maybe speeding or, you know, jumping in the car and not putting a seat belt on, like driving down the street before putting it on. Or like using someone else’s Netflix or downloading audio things.

87. 38:44

    Yeah, downloading audio books for free or like watching movies on free websites. That’s that’s stealing and it doesn’t matter like, and there’ll be things like that I haven’t thought of, Yeah. Because we just, we justify it where it’s like, oh, it doesn’t even mean anything. No one would care. Exactly because it sort.

88. 38:59

    Of works in the opposite way I’m in. Places like Matthew tell us that the people who did good before Jesus Christ and who were judged accordingly said they didn’t even realise they were doing them, it was just a way of life for them. So yeah, it makes sense that almost the opposite is true as well.

89. 39:15

    Yeah, so I’d say that’s the big thing. I’ve probably more carefully self examined a lot of the things that I do and not just glossed over them. Being like this is exactly the sort of thing that Christ will go, no, you’re doing this, We’re not just going to gloss over that. You do need to realize before you’re made immortal that that’s not an acceptable.

90. 39:34

    Practice. That’s true, yeah. Yeah. And that would, I feel like that’s actually a comforting thing because you’re learning if you are able to acknowledge those habitual sins of speeding or using someone else’s Netflix password or, or whatever it is, it it brings you to that. It’s like it makes you almost reshape your thinking where you’re like, oh, that is actually bad. And that teaches you that humility. I’d, I’d suggest maybe like at an earlier stage than than what it could be.

91. 40:01

    And so it’s kind of like a positive thing because like when you go on a Sunday morning or, you know, when you do the bread and the wine and you examine yourself, you’ve now got these things where you’re like, these are some more things I can work on. And you you become before the cross. Before Christ’s body even more in depth, because one thing I’ve got run in my margin, especially on Sunday or when it comes to self examination, is the like the more you sin, the more you’re forgiven.

92. 40:23

    Hence the more you love because you’ve been getting forgiven this massive amount of way. And the more you can acknowledge that you do wrong, the more you should actually love. And it’s actually like it’s a an optimistic thing in the way. It’s like you’re able to acknowledge where it’s wrong. And because of that, it’s like, how good is this that you’ve got to help out of it. Yeah.

93. 40:41

    Yeah, exactly. Because I sort of from, from my own perspective, the judgement seat has been, and you know, This is why I feel people said it’s going to take forever to go through the judgement because everyone’s sin is going to be exposed. But it’s never sat right with me. If we confess our sins and believe our sins are forgiven in, in this life, we’ll pray judgement, then why does God or the Angel, whoever it might be, bring up those sins again when God has said, you know, in the Psalms, I’ve separated you from your sins as far as the aces from the West? Is that how you would explain that then, That there are all these unconscious sins that we don’t even think about and they will be part of the judgement process? Yeah, I, I think so.

94. 41:26

    That’s going to I think that’s a large part of it because like you say, God’s forgiven us. If if we had forgiven someone and then later we were like, oh, yeah, now I’m just ordering my friends. I’m like saying which one’s a real? Oh, no, he did that thing to me. Well, you didn’t forgive him then, right.

95. 41:43

    So I do agree. If it’s a forgiven sin, it doesn’t really make sense to me to be brought up at all when he’s as far as he exists from the West. There may be some that we think we’ve confessed and ask forgiveness for that that forgiveness was perhaps selfish. More than that request or repentance was more selfish than genuine. And we need to be called out for that, to be brought low, to be made into nothing, to get to the point where we go no OK in righteousness, in God only have our righteousness and strength. Yeah, because you can think about at the time of Christ is that attitude.

96. 42:17

    I think that like it’s sort of similar. That makes me think of prayer. It’s like God already knows the things that we’re going to bring to him in prayer before we say it, but he wants to see that willing spirit to, to have that humility and to bring it before God and acknowledge your position of like, I can’t do this, it’s out of my control, but I know you can. And I think in a similar sort of way, it that helps with this sort of thing as well, because it’s, you’re bringing yourself before God, before Christ, asking for forgiveness. And it’s that attitude of pure underlying humiliation. And you’re, yeah, you’re kind of, you know, your position. And that’s such a hard thing to do. Like we were saying before, like to know your position and all of a sudden be like, oh, what I’m actually doing is wrong because that human pride can get in the way. And it just stops us from recognizing what we’re doing is bad.

97. 43:06

    Yeah, and I think we also often focus a lot on like, you know, the bad things and like all those being called out. But every man’s work we made manifest for what it is. So those people like the sheep or the judgement seat will be called out for their good work, which is a positive thing to think about, that there’ll be good works that we never realise we did, which you mentioned earlier.

98. 43:28

    And that made me question like, what’s the value of that? If the point was all about God’s righteousness and then you’ve gone and praise someone for something they did, is that not like giving glory to them? It feels like it’s going against the purpose of the judgement seat, but those people didn’t weren’t even aware of that. And the fact that it’s called out as a good work that is glorifying God shows that everything that they do is putting God first and it’s actually showing God’s righteousness in another person.

99. 44:00

    It’s not building up their pride. There’s the balance of, you know, there’s the things you’ve done wrong, but these are the things that really captured God’s glory. And all the world gets to see God’s glory shown in you, which is a positive thing to think about as well. Yeah. So I guess getting to the bones of it then when you did this personal study for yourself and you looked at all the quotes in the Bible about what the Bible actually says, what’s the picture that you were able to conjure that you shared with the youth group? And are you able to share that with us now? Just the picture of the judgement bringing all these verses together.

100. 44:40

     I probably mostly focused on that purpose of the judgement seat and the the, the meaning that that has for us now rather than like picturing yourself there. So it’s hard to give a really, I’d struggle to give like a really good picture of it that wasn’t dramatized. I think some of those dramatized pictures are good for helping us imagine something, but there’s a few details that I’d say, like I think the angels are involved in some measure, the power of the tears, which is a which is about judgement.

101. 45:11

     Jesus says that the reapers, so the servants of the household at first say, can we go and gather up the tears? And he says, no, that’s a role reserved for the angels. The reapers, they’re going to do it and they’re going to separate it into barns. There’s some, there’s certainly some role the angels play. Matthew 25 when he comes and sits on his throne with all the holy angels are with him and they separate sheep and goats. So that’s I think a fairly good indicator that there’s going to be Christ on a throne.

102. 45:42

     People will come before him. The word judgement seat is a word that’s used of Christ’s judgement or of a literal judgement seat with like the one of Gallio in Acts where they brought Paul before a judgement seat. So that scene, that picture we have, while I was challenged, challenged by initially, I think I’ll sort of come back to a fairly traditional view of how it works.

103. 46:06

     I couldn’t say with any confidence that it was at Sinai. There’s a couple of quotes that say that the Saints March from Sinai when they take on go, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the judgement was there. Yeah. So I say it’s a little bit imperfect and I’ve still got more study to do here, but I think there are some things that we can’t know and we do have to fill in the gaps with our imaginations, which are less. Yeah, I like how you did focus on sort of, I guess our attitude towards it and what we think about now, because you think about Matthew 25.

104. 46:39

     And that’s been like the parable of the talents, parable of the virgins and the sheep and the goats. They’re all parable was in the way of the judgement seat. Like you’ve got the master of the house going away or the bride going away and then he’s going to return at some point. But the focus of those first two is all about like how we prepare ourselves in the time he’s gone. Like in the parable of the virgins, you’ve obviously got the five unwise who aren’t, who aren’t ready for it at all, and then they’re locked out and they’re not allowed back in. And the parable of the talents, you’ve got the one talent being who, who saw God as just a completely or the master or the father is a completely wrong man and just saw him as this scary and and this wrathful God who who raped or what does it say about he?

105. 47:23

     You were a hard man. Yeah, and and yeah, yeah, exactly. And it’s an attitude of like that was like cast out, but it was the attitude of putting what you’ve got now to good works. And that was a thing that that Christ emphasized the people at the time. Like that was the thing he wanted them to be taken away with was like how you prepare while I’m gone.

106. 47:42

     Knowing that this is going to happen is is ultimately the most important thing. And it’s not what we’re getting judged on our works. Obviously we understand that that’s like we’re not, it’s not what we do physically. Like we’re good tick off. You know, we understand that’s, that’s not quite how how it works, but it’s the idea of like putting our best foot forward and understanding that it’s not in our hands and that God saving us for who we’re going to become. And that starts with the transformations we take in our lives each and every day.

107. 48:10

     So I guess that’s another way in which you can think about the the judgement, say in your day, each and every life. Yeah. Yeah, each and every day as opposed. Yeah, yeah, that’s right. So it seems up there is you went you alerted to Corinthians earlier and there’s obviously different rewards post judgement as well. So Corinthians talks about, you know, people whose works will be wood, hay, stubble, gold and then following the judgement. I mean, we’re all given eternal life if we’re all accepted as part of God’s Kingdom.

108. 48:49

     Jesus talks about how the 12 disciples would sit on 12 Thrones judging the 12 tribes over, which seems like a greater station than others and then others will be door keepers and all these sorts of different things. How do you, how do you sort of explain that side of it as well? Did you look into that part of it as well?

109. 49:12

     Yeah, well, I think that First Corinthians 3 is a really good one because it shows that no matter what, in the end you’ve got all your works and all your works themselves could be burned out. But if you, if you with a genuine heart have built those on the foundation of Jesus Christ, because it says the foundation will still be left, then Christ, there will be a place for you in the Kingdom.

110. 49:35

     But the works that you do build up throughout your life are an indicator as to the abilities and talents that you’ve been given, I suppose. And God will reward people according to their several abilities, which is like quote, like like the power of the talents and the power of the pounds indicates and will be given a roll over 10 cities, I think. And we can always trust in the complete wisdom of God. There’s not going to be anyone who’s disgruntled with what they’ve been given.

111. 50:02

     Everyone will be given a role that’s suited to them that is a reward for what they’ve done and that God knows they’ll thrive in for eternity. And that’s a pretty simple view of it as to what all of those roles are. I mean, it’s some cool things you could look into, but when I also don’t know whether that’s exactly the stage at judgement seat or little like a roles are given after the judgement seat after people have been sorted into sheep and goats.

112. 50:36

     Yeah, something to look into a little more there too. Because I think, you know, when it talks about, you know, you’re going to be kings as pray some like do I fit into either a priestly role or a kingly role? And it’s like, do I fit into either of them or none of them? You’re looking pretty kingly on that couch. Yeah.

113. 50:55

     I mean, I suppose before we get to your 3 rules for life much anticipated segment, is there anything that you want to leave people with like in your study that you learned that you might want to express? Apart from the things I’ve said, I’d say one other thing that people often bring up about this is fear of the judgement seat. Actually fear the judgement seat or it should be something we anticipate, look forward to.

114. 51:20

     It’s very hard to answer that question outright. Like if you have some fear of the judgement seat, does that just mean that you’re not going to be judged worthy?

115. 51:31

     The but there are a few things that we do know 1 is in First Corinthians, I think it’s First Corinthians 4. Paul says it might be so Corinthians 5, one of the two. Paul says that knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we command men about this. The immediately preceding verses were about the judgement seat so that he acknowledges that there is a terror when it comes to this, but he goes on.

116. 51:58

     I actually I’m going to flip it up because second. Corinthians 5, yeah. 2nd Corinthians 5. Cool. He goes on in the later verses to say, yeah, so he says Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men, etcetera. And he goes on talks a little bit more about giving occasion to glory.

117. 52:19

     But verse 14 then brings up that the love of Christ constrains us because we thus judge that if one died for all, then we’re all dead. And you find a similar sentiment in first of John, the end of first of John 4, where we come to the judgement seat of Christ without fear, because perfect love casts out fear, right. So the question is, should we have any fear? Well, if we have perfect love, then no. But would anyone claim to have perfect love in this life? I expect not.

118. 52:51

     It’s the it’s the end goal we should reach. But there is the fact is that we we have perfect love for God and we are not. We acknowledge that he’s promised us this, but we doubt ourselves. We doubt ourselves a little and therefore we fear the outcome in the end. That is a little bit of a doubt of God’s promise. But we do, a lot of us do harbour that and there’s some people who are really quite confident in it. And that’s I think, a place that we should all strive to get to. But rejection is a fearful thing and the words for like weeping and gnashing of teeth are only used in context of judgement, except for twice weeping.

119. 53:31

     Whaling is used of one of those times is of the mothers of Bethlehem who lost their children. So it’s that’s like a mother’s bond with a child and something that the three of us are never going to experience, but is one of the strongest bonds in nature that God’s ever created. And it’s broken. So it’s a it’s a terrifying thing. And there’s always that little niggling doubt that I don’t want that to be me.

120. 53:56

     But if we have perfect love and appreciate more so that God has perfect love, realise that he has promised us that he wants to save us, then we can have confidence that he will do it. The rest just lies with us, whether we examine our faith and go, OK, I truly am all I. All I am is for Christ.

121. 54:18

     Yeah, because it’s not that belief in us, but it’s that belief in God to save. It’s got nothing to do with us. And it was not super practical. Sometimes it’s hard to put that into really practical terms. But yeah, it’s let’s not doubt God, it’s the main thing. And I think something that struck me recently R.E.M. Just before we wrap up shortly, but looking at our life today has been a training ground has when I think about it, it’s sort of life changing and I think it’s training ground almost for for judgement where you know, Philippians talks about, you know, the good work that God started in us. He will bring about, you know, at the day of Christ’s return. So it’s almost like this judgement. This final process is is the culmination of everything that we’ve done because we’ve been preparing for all our lives. And that’s why we should look at this life is so transit train everything that happens to us.

122. 55:14

     We can almost with with faith anyway, sort of it’s ward off a duck’s back almost because it’s just training us for that time. And like you were talking about before, there are people who may have suffered humiliation in this life already and who are perhaps going to feel, you know, less of a burden than maybe others who’ve hidden that in their lives.

123. 55:41

     Yeah. Yeah, I like that thought that you finish like the judgement seat is just the end of the process that God started, but there’s a lot more to be done. That judgement seat, it’s almost speed running what the rest of our life would have taken to develop in US. But I guess this is the, this is the crux, Josh.

124. 56:01

     This is our three rules for life. Do you want to get us started with your first one? Yeah, So my first one’s unrelated to the topic or maybe the last two related to the topic. That’s all good. Perfect. My first one is and so I’ve got it on my phone home screen. Always believe that others are a work in progress, never give up on them. That’s the that’s the short version. In essence, we’re all just desperately sick people with the terminal disease that it that no one, no human, has ever survived, even Christ.

125. 56:34

     That’s mortality. So to think that others are beyond saving at any point is, I think really, quite, really quite wrong. And if we always believe that others are a work in progress, we’ll treat them with compassion and love and always be OK. So they’ve done that Hurtful. The thing that I could translate is hurtful to me.

126. 56:54

     But instead, I’ll, I’ll go, well, how can I help them? They’re a work in progress. And in a way that does relate to what we were talking about because we’re all, we have to acknowledge that we’re all work in progress for the judgement. So. Yeah, good little, good little there. The two that are actually rules, probably two other rules for life that I’d like to think of anyway, but a judgement related as well on the lines of like we need to be made small and realise how small and humble we are. First one is you have no rights and the second one is you own nothing interesting.

127. 57:33

     So to expand on that slightly, because you pose A quizzical look, right? No, no, it’s it’s yeah, I like it. I like it. A lot you have no, the only right that we really have, the only thing we deserve is death. That’s the wages that we’ve that we have been offered for our sins.

128. 57:53

     But we’re given so much more. So if we have a realisation that we have no rights, anytime we stand up for ourselves, it’s not a humble, it’s not a humble thing at all. But we’ve got no rights. We have nothing to stand up for and the idea of owning nothing, everything is God’s.

129. 58:10

     That’s pretty straightforward. So anything we have sort of just on loan until and we are the stewards of God to decide what to do with it. So it was. Always believe that others are a work in progress. Never give up on them. Yeah. #2. You have no rights. And #3. You owe nothing. Perfect.

130. 58:30

     Thanks for coming in tonight, Josh. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for wrapping that up. It was quite a sobering topic, but I think the love of Christ, I think we it ended on a really positive note. So thanks for bringing it positive and and reloading it back to to Christ and the love that he had.

131. 58:48

     For us, well, hopefully it ends on a positive note for everyone. Yeah, yeah, long term, right. Yeah, no thanks heaps. Josh, appreciate it. Thanks heaps for having. Me So if you’ve got any questions, feel free to leave them in the comments below. And yeah, stay tuned for our next episode. See you later guys.