284: Warren Phillips - The Purpose of the Testing of Job

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:13

   Welcome to Good Chris Selfie and Talks. I’m Levi. And I’m Chris. And I’m Brian. Thank you for joining us this week on this podcast. We select One Talk a week to help us get the Bible in our Daily News feed. We post a new episode at the start of each week with a short intro beforehand to kind of set the stage for the talk you’re about to listen to. And now, let’s talk more about this week’s talk. Hey everyone, this is Jason Hensley and this week we’re going to be listening to a talk by Brother Warren Phillips. Brother Warren was from the Meriden Ecclesia in Connecticut and this talk that you will be listening to was given in 1981 at the Southwest Christadelphian Bible School or the Texas Bible School.

2. 1:13

   What I really liked about this talk is that Brother Warren took a book like Job that I always struggled to understand. I got to tell you, every end of the year when we read through Job, I find myself feeling like Job is almost just one idea repeated after the other, after the other, Like it just feels very similar. Like Job says, things are hard.

3. 1:45

   His friends say, well, it was your fault and that that’s sort of what we’re looking at. But I really liked this class because I felt like Brother Warren gave me something to hang on to that here’s the particular agenda that this friend is pushing, here’s the particular agenda that this one’s pushing, and here’s how Job responds and how his responses change.

4. 2:07

   So as we listen to it, I hope that you have the same kind of experience. I hope that you find this class helpful just for grasping what’s going on in Job. And so then really that it will take something that can sometimes feel a little bit abstract and really make it something that you feel like you can grasp and understand what’s going on. So here we go.

5. 2:33

   This is the Southwest Christadelphian Bible School 1981 for the Warren Phillips and we are listening to the purpose of the Testing of job. Morning everyone. Just by a very way of a very brief review, we started out yesterday by considering the background of the book of Job and the setting, not only of the writing of the book, but particularly of the action, recognizing that it took place sometime between the life of Joseph and the life of Moses.

6. 3:04

   And we went on to consider how that Job was a very rich man, the richest of all the East. And because of this there was some man, even though the word is in the in the scriptures is Satan. We realized the Word means an enemy. Yesterday we reviewed the fact that this must have been some individual that had come within the ecclesia and was not thoroughly convinced that a person could be righteous for righteousness sake, felt there was no real reason to be righteous, and certainly had no real reason to water and establish his life before God as a righteous individual. And because of that, we find that the Lord draws his attention to his servant Job, one who is perfect and upright, one that fears God and His trueth evil and said there’s no one like him in all the earth recommending that this enemy should emulate the life of Job.

7. 3:54

   And the enemy did not feel that Job was really righteous for righteousness sake, but merely because he’d entered into a good business deal with God. God had given him a lot of blessings in this life. A wonderful wife, 10 wonderful children, wealth above anyone else on earth in good health. And he recommended that if God was to remove those blessings that Job would curse God to his face and therefore God permitted Job to be put to the test. It wasn’t a case of saying see how good Job is and boasting about it.

8. 4:27

   But the real purpose was to coach this unrighteous individual to a way of righteousness to emulate the life of Job. And therefore Job was put to the test and we learn how that many of his blessings were removed. We find that his wealth was removed and his ten children. And at this low condition of emotions I am sure that many of us would not have been able to give the answer that Job gave, which said the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

9. 4:58

   Blessed be the name of the Lord and it said in all this Job maintained his integrity. He did not curse God with his lips. And when we start the second chapter, which is really where we are this morning, we find that the enemy is not quite satisfied. Again, the sons of God come before the Lord.

10. 5:21

    It seems as though there’s another weekly meeting of the the Ecclesia there at in ancient times. And we read in the first verse again, there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan, or if I might say, the enemy, he came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

11. 5:40

    And the Lord said unto the enemy, From whence comest thou and Satan dance of the Lord, And said, from going to and forth in the earth, and from walking up and down in it? In other words, he said, I’ve been around, which is essentially what he said, if I’ll be allowed to paraphrase it a bit. And again the Lord draws this enemy’s attention to Job in verse three.

12. 6:02

    And the Lord said unto the enemy, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in all the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and this cheweth evil, and still hold as fast as integrity, although thou movest me against him, to destroy him without a cause.

13. 6:21

    And again we have the commendation of the Lord in regard to Job’s character, That first it was the law that was moved against him to destroy him without a ’cause it wasn’t really the enemy that had done it. Even though God had given the enemy the power necessary to do that which was done, it was still from the Lord.

14. 6:42

    And therefore the Lord acknowledged that it was his doing, and he asked if he had really considered him. And then the answer that this enemy gives is a further insult both to God and to Job. Verse four. And the enemy answered the Lord and said, skin for skin. Yeah, all that a man hath will he give for his skin.

15. 7:06

    But put forth thy hand now and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. In other words, what he’s saying is, look, Job is a lot more sinful man than I really suspected. At first I suggested that all you need to do is remove his wealth and his children and he’s going to curse you to his face.

16. 7:27

    I didn’t really realize what about what terrible man Job really was, because he doesn’t even care about as well. And much worse than that, he doesn’t even care for the lives of his ten children. All he cares for is his own skin, skin for skin, all will a man give for his life.

17. 7:45

    And So what the enemy is accusing Job of is being so self-centered that he doesn’t even care for the well-being of his own family, for his own flesh and blood. He’s only interested in himself. And as long as he gets out of things all right, he doesn’t really care what happens to anybody else. And so the recommendation was that the Lord put forth his hand and touch his flesh and his bone. And he said, then Job is going to curse you to his face. And so the Lord is willing to carry this test. One step further.

18. 8:20

    Verse 6. And the Lord said unto the enemy, Behold, he is in thine hand, but save his life. The life was the one thing that he was not to take. And of course we know the account. We know how that Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. Job was placed in a position of agony. And this position of agony was not something that was very temporary.

19. 8:49

    Instead we find it lasted for quite some period of time. As we go on, we’re going to see that this is the case. Is this my icon now? It is. Job was in this position of agony for quite a period of time. And what we have here of course that you’ve been looking at for the last two days and I haven’t said anything about it, is a chat to try to draw our attention to the events that take place from this point onward. Through the speeches of Eli who even to the introduction of the voice of the Almighty.

20. 9:19

    We have Job sitting without the city sitting with a pot shirt in his hand that he can scrape himself with in a very miserable condition. We try not to make it too gruesome. I have here to thank Sister Louis Johnson of the Morristown, NJ Ecclesia for making this for me. We have Job seated in the middle. We have his three friends Zofar, Bildad and excuse me, Alafar, Bildad and Zofar sitting off at the your right. And we have the young man Eli, who which we’re going to talk about a little later in the week, coming into the scene later on, way off to your extreme right, we find a woman which we would suggest represents his wife, and we’re going to get to her comments very shortly. Our purpose in this chart is to try to draw our attention in a picture form, to put all of these things together. And it also helps me because my notes are right up in front of you.

21. 10:14

    So here we find that Joe. Joe was smitten with boils. Now, exactly what type of a disease that was has been debated back and forth by many individuals. Many suggestions have been made. I’m not a doctor. I certainly don’t expect that I can tell you exactly what it is. It would only be mimicking the suggestions of many others.

22. 10:34

    Some have suggested that it was a form of elephantiasis where that the person not only would have these boils, but it would get to such a an acute position where that his flesh would actually be rotting on him. It’s one type of leprosy so that eventually his bones would actually show through. And if we really wanted to barter on the gruesome, we could go through the Book of Job and pick out passage after passage within the debate which describes the wretched condition that this man was in, Whether it does get to the place where his bones are actually showing through.

23. 11:08

    And he comes to the position where that he felt that he certainly was going to die, hadn’t quite reached that position, but had been in this position of agony for a long, long period of time. And so this is a position we find that Job is placed in because of the unwillingness for the enemy to recognize that a man could be righteous for righteousness sake. He is suffering tremendously because of it. And yet we find that throughout of all of this, Job maintains his integrity.

24. 11:40

    He doesn’t sin with his lips. He does maintain his integrity. Now his wife comes on the scene. Not much is said about his wife in the book of Job except for this very brief statement. But his wife comes on the scene and makes a very remarkable suggestion. She suggests to Job that he cursed God and die. And right away, when we hear this statement, we say, boy, she must have been a rather wicked woman, not a thing for a person’s for a man’s wife to suggest that he cursed God and die.

25. 12:12

    We find that the words of Job perhaps give us a suggestion that she wasn’t really quite as bad as we might think she is by our first reading. He tells her not to be as the silly women. Did you notice? He didn’t say you’re a silly woman? To make a statement such as that?

26. 12:32

    He said don’t be. As the silly woman, she hadn’t quite gotten there, but her statements now seem to border on that. She certainly hadn’t quite been with the women who did not give any thought to the things of God, who were not interested in God or his great plan of salvation. But she was just now beginning to talk that way when she made the suggestion that he ought to curse God and die. What was the reason behind her suggestion? Is the question that we ought to ask. And I think that it’s this.

27. 13:02

    His wife flunked it. She didn’t like the idea of seeing Job in the agony in which he’s been brought. She didn’t like to see him suffering. And I know that there have been many of us who may have seen a loved one suffering from some dread disease and slowly wasting away. And perhaps that wasting period has lasted for weeks or months or sometimes even years.

28. 13:28

    And we realize that there’s no pleasure in life whatsoever for the individual that’s undergoing it, and we know that it’s going to end in death anyway. And therefore perhaps we vouch actually felt that it might be better if they can merely fall asleep in death instead of continuing in that condition of agony. And therefore we’ve actually hoped that they might die. Well, the statement of Job’s wife would seem to indicate that they had a rather strange idea at that time. And the idea was that if a person could get God angry enough at him, God would kill him. And here she saw her husband in tremendous agony, and she felt that if Job would only curse God to his face, God would then be so angry that he’d kill him on the spot, and then he wouldn’t be suffering any longer.

29. 14:16

    I think that her real attitude behind that statement wasn’t to encourage Job to be a wicked individual, but she would much rather see him sleeping peacefully in death than living in the agony in which he was living. Then. And therefore she made the suggestion that he ought to curse God and die with the idea that God would get angry enough that he would kill him.

30. 14:39

    And Job, instead of saying you’re one of the silly woman, you’re an unrighteous woman. Realized that her statement was very similar to the type of statement that they would make, and recommended that she turn from that way immediately before she indulged in it any further And not be as the silly woman, but continue the righteousness that she had had for the and during the time that they had been living together.

31. 15:05

    I think this is a possible explanation, and I’d like to leave it for your consideration. Perhaps it might be something that we might have an interesting discussion on later on, but then we find that Job had three friends, Aliphaz, Bildad, and Zofar. And these friends are quite interesting. We find, if we wish to do a reasonable amount of research, that they didn’t really live too close to each other. They were separated by many miles, perhaps hundreds of miles.

32. 15:33

    We can’t quite be sure, but here they had heard of the problem that Joe Job had had. They’ve been friends with Job for a long period of time. And this to me would suggest that Job had been in this condition of agony for at least a number of weeks. First of all he had to get into this condition and then messages had to be sent to each of the three friends. They had to be informed of the condition of their friend Job. And then we find that they communicated one with another so that they would all come together to a common point and then go as a delegation to visit Job. Which means they would have to send messages back and forth to one another and make that arrangement which would take further time.

33. 16:15

    Then they themselves would have to make the trip and get together and finally they would come to Job. And even after they come to them, we find that it’s a period of of seven days before they say anything. So that’s at least a week that we can be absolutely sure of. So to suggest that it may have been a number of weeks, so possibly even months that Job was in this condition, I don’t think is at all unreasonable. But we come to the place where we find that Job’s three friends come together and they see Job afar off even before they’ve reached him.

34. 16:47

    And then, seeing Job afar off, they find that he’s in a very miserable condition, such a condition that they could hardly recognize them. But then we find that they did something very strange. Not strange to them, but strange to us. They reach down to the ground, they pick up sand, and they throw it up in the air over their heads. And we might say, I wonder what that means. Well, it had a very significant meaning in ancient times and in the East.

35. 17:13

    What it signified was that they were hurt because of the hurt that Job was undergoing. And when that sand was thrown up into the air and came back down over their head, what they were actually saying is whatever has befallen Job has fallen, befallen us. Even though we don’t actually undergo the suffering that he’s suffering, it still hurts us that he’s in that condition. And I know that we’ve all felt that way on one time or another when our loved ones have been suffering, even though we may not undergo the exact pain that they’re undergoing. Nevertheless, it hurts us because they’re hurt, and they were saying that what has befallen Job has befallen us. It bothers us because our friend is suffering the way it is. We share to a great degree in his suffering, even though they don’t actually feel the physical pain that he had. They certainly felt mental pain because of the suffering of their friend Job.

36. 18:12

    And then they do another rather surprising thing. They come to job and they sit down and they sit there for seven days and don’t say anything. And they referred to as Job’s comforters. I wonder how many of us would consider someone that came down and sat down beside us and never even said anything and just sat there and didn’t say a word for seven days as being very comforting to us. And, you know, at first it might almost seem to be a little bit amusing if it wasn’t that the circumstances were so serious. But, you know, sometimes when a friend or a loved one is extremely sick and we go and visit them at their hospital bed, there really isn’t very much we can say. There’s not really too much we can say to actually comfort the individual.

37. 18:59

    But just being there, being near them, being by their side, can be a comfort. They know that they’re not left alone. They know that there’s that people just don’t care when someone comes and stays with them. I wonder how often it is when we have a loved one or a friend that’s in the hospital and we go to visit them and we check our watch and say, now let’s see, visiting hours end at 8:00. If I show up at 10 minutes of, I won’t have to waste too much time there.

38. 19:28

    Or perhaps we don’t actually say that. I don’t really think we would, but perhaps sometimes our actions would seem to indicate that that’s the idea behind it. And so we’ll show up for a few minutes and then in comes the nurse and said, I’m sorry, the visiting hours are over and off we go to, oh, isn’t that too bad?

39. 19:44

    And away we go. You know, sometimes just being with an individual can be a tremendous comfort to them. And I think this was the purpose of Job’s three friends. It wasn’t that they were being rude or thoughtless by coming and sitting down and saying nothing for three days. In fact, we find that they weren’t really fair with the friends. I think it’s necessary to give one further description of Job’s condition.

40. 20:10

    First of all, we’ve already mentioned that he was in tremendous agony and that it was visible agony. It was not a nice thing to be able to behold that he was in that condition. It wasn’t someone that a person would like to be around because of their physical countenance. There was another awkward problem because of it.

41. 20:32

    With this particular ailment, they would have been a very obnoxious stench, and still they were willing to sit down and be with him throughout that seven day period. Not fair were the friends at all, but very close friends willing to associate with him Even in this very, very difficult time in his life, it would have been difficult for them just to be there. And yet they were.

42. 20:56

    And so I think it could indeed be said that they were confidence of Job, even though they said nothing for seven days. But then we find that after the seven day period is over, Job begins to speak up. And this is in the third chapter of Job. We’re not going to read every word, but we find that in the third chapter of Job, Job breaks the silence and this gives an opportunity for his three friends to speak up.

43. 21:25

    It’s Job that first speaks, and Job begins to curse his day. And in that third chapter of of Job, we find that Job curses a number of different parts of his day.

44. 21:41

    Get my notes. First of all, we find that Job curses the time in which he was conceived. He curses the night in which his mother conceived him. I think his reasoning is this, that if indeed he had never even been conceived, obviously he never would have been born. And he said if he’d never been born, he never would have grown up, and if he’d never grown up, he never would have come to this condition of agony that he is now in.

45. 22:14

    He was in tremendous agony. He was suffering terrifically, and if he had never come into existence, he wouldn’t have had to suffer. And so he cursed the very night in which he was conceived, and yet he had nothing to do with that whatsoever. And so he goes on to curse the next thing. He wished that he could have been stillborn. If indeed he had died, or died before birth and been born dead, then he never would have grown up. He never would have come to this position of agony, and therefore he wouldn’t have to undergo this excruciating pain that he’s now undergoing.

46. 22:54

    Then he wishes that, well, if he couldn’t have not been conceived, or he couldn’t have been stillborn, perhaps he could have died in his infancy. And if he died in his infancy again, he would not have grown up and come to the condition of agony that he’s now in. But of course that wasn’t possible. Here he is in that agony, looking for a way out, and the last thing that he curses is or wishes that he could actually die at that moment.

47. 23:23

    For he feels that if indeed he would die at that moment, he wouldn’t have to go on suffering. And we know that there have been a lot of people that have been in the condition of tremendous agony, and they realize there’s no way out. They realize that it’s eventually going to end in death anyway.

48. 23:41

    And therefore they figure if they could die a little sooner instead of a little later, they could eliminate some of the agony that they might otherwise have to go through. And that was the position of Job. He cursed his day. He wished that either he had not been conceived, or that he had been stillborn, or that he had died in infancy. And if not, he wishes that he could die now and avoid any further agony that he would have to go through by continuing to live.

49. 24:08

    And by saying this, he opens the door. He opens the door to his three friends to be able to speak up and to speak their mind and point out to him why it is that they think that he’s suffering, so that he might perhaps come to a condition of ending that suffering. That’s the desire. And so we find that they begin to speak up. Now in Job’s description of the death state in the third chapter, we find some very interesting verses before his three friends speak up.

50. 24:42

    We find that Job gives a description of what it would be like if he died, and I know that as Christadelphians, we’ve made use of these statements very, very often in our debates and discussions with people who believe in an immortal soul and they’re very good verses. A word of caution, however, in regard to quoting things from the book of Job, we are now on the threshold of Job’s debate with his three friends.

51. 25:08

    Now, in a debate you’ve got one right and one wrong. If either one of them are right, certainly one is wrong. And it would be unfortunate just to lift a verse out of context, where later in the book we find individuals are condemned for what they say. And we find that this is the case with Job’s three friends, and even partly with Job when it comes to the speeches of Elihu and the voice of the Almighty.

52. 25:35

    But in this particular statement of Job, there is no one that refutes Job alifas Bildad. So far not one of them say that he’s wrong in his description of the death stake. When the young man alive who stands up to speak, he doesn’t challenge Job’s position in regard to his view of the death stake. When the Almighty speaks, he does not contradict Job and his view of the death stake.

53. 26:02

    And therefore we can feel quite certain that we can make use of these very interesting verses here in the third chapter of Job to point out exactly what it’s like when a person dies. And of course we do. We turn to the 11th verse and read on down for a few verses. Why died?

54. 26:22

    I not from the womb. Why did I not give up the spirit when I came out of the belly? Why did the knees prevent me? Or why the breast that I should suck? Well, now I should have lain still and been quiet. I should have slept. Then I had been at rest, and on it goes, speaking about resting with the kings of the earth once they’re dead, pointing out that the death state is a state of rest. Verse 17.

55. 26:50

    There the wicked cease from troubling there the weary be at rest. And so he goes on down describing the death state and how often it is that we’ve made use of these passages, and rightly so. But we should be cautious when it comes to getting over into the debate, especially in considering the words of Job’s three friends. We can say, well, here’s a passage of in the Bible, why can’t we use it?

56. 27:15

    But we’ve got to remember to keep it in context. Remembering that later on in the book Job’s three friends are addressed by the Almighty and condemned, saying thou did not speak that which is correct concerning me as my servant. Job paths. So we have to be careful in the verses that we use, making sure that we do keep them in context.

57. 27:39

    But now we find Job’s three friends are going to have the opportunity to speak up. We’ve already mentioned that they’re not fair with the friends. I think that perhaps their attitude toward Job is something like that of his wife. Remember how his wife said curse God and die with the idea that if indeed he was dead, he wouldn’t be suffering any longer?

58. 28:01

    She didn’t really want the idea of having her husband dead, but she’d rather see him dead than suffer. When it comes to Job’s three friends, they’re not fair with the friends. They felt that there was a problem in Job’s life. They felt that Job was suffering for some particular sin that he had committed and they wanted to encourage Job to repent and therefore have God forgive him and heal him, which we’re going to see in just a few moments.

59. 28:28

    Now, You know, a lot of times when we see someone in the Ecclesia or perhaps a friend of ours doing something that isn’t quite right, we don’t want to offend them and perhaps we don’t bring it to their attention. And then the question is, are we really a good friend of theirs or not?

60. 28:46

    We say, well, I don’t want them to be angry with me, I don’t want to hurt their feelings. But which is better? If we’re really interested in the well-being of a person, perhaps it may be our own children. We don’t want them angry with us either, but boy, we showing up. She’ll point out things that they’ve done wrong right away, and likewise with other members of the Ecclesia.

61. 29:08

    And I don’t mean to be a busy body running around trying to find fault with everyone we can in the meeting, that’s certainly not going to help either. But if we see something that the individual may not be aware of, or perhaps might be, and we can point out a better way that might save them from eternal death and help them to a position of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, are we going to be a better friend to keep quiet about it? Or are we going to be a better friend to bring it up to their attention so that eventually they might receive the gift of eternal life in the Kingdom of God? Which way would we be a better friend to them? These weren’t fair.

62. 29:45

    Were the friends they really were friends of Job, although sometimes the way in which they present their arguments do not seem very polite and courteous to Joe. But I do think that the purpose behind it all was that they wanted to see Joe redeemed from this position of agony. And they believed at that time in a very interesting doctrine.

63. 30:09

    And they arrived at this doctrine by what we might refer to as a syllogism. And I’d like to give you a little demonstration of it. We find that a syllogism is 3 prepositions. We find it’s two premises followed by a conclusion. Now we’ve seen people reason this way a lot today, and we realize that sometimes it can be problems with the reasoning. I hope you can all see this.

64. 30:42

    The first premise is that all suffering is a punishment for sin. Now think about that for a moment. Do you agree with that or not? Is all suffering the punishment for sin?

65. 30:58

    Well, you know, if we are perfectly correct in regard to this, if we want to go right back to the beginning, we’re going to have to say, well, because our first parents sinned, we have become subject to good and evil. Evil is calamity are things that are not nice, amongst which of course is pain and suffering. And therefore technically we could say that all suffering is the punishment of sin, or at least the result of sin. In that respect we would have to say yes, but they had carried this to the ultimate and just left it at that, and said that if anybody suffers, it must be because they’ve committed a sin. They believed in the doctrine of exact retribution. Then, believing in this, they looked at another premise. And that next premise is this.

66. 31:54

    They looked at Job and they said now Job is a great sufferer. Well, are they right in that? Well, I don’t think we can argue about that one. I think every one of us would take one look at Job and say there’s no question whatsoever but what? Job was indeed a very great sufferer. Now, with these two premises before them, there was only one conclusion that could appeal to their mind, and that is this, that Job must indeed be a great Sinner. And were they right in this?

67. 32:28

    I know there’s some that have said, Oh yeah, they were, and that’s why Job was suffering. I don’t think this is the case. In fact, we find that we’ve got an insight into the suffering of Job that Job himself didn’t have, that Job’s wife didn’t have, and that Job’s three friends didn’t have.

68. 32:47

    And as far as I know, Eli, who didn’t either. In fact, the only character that presents himself, and might be so crude as to make use that word in the entire narrative of Job is the Almighty. He certainly knew about it, and of course the Enemy himself knew as well. We know that Job was suffering for the benefit of somebody else. Job was suffering to bring the enemy from his ways of wickedness to live a righteous life as Job was living. Job didn’t realize that he was being put to death for the benefit of bringing another man to righteousness. Therefore, when Job’s wife came comes along, she doesn’t know it either and she suggests that he cursed God and die. When Job’s three friends come along, they are not aware that the reason that Job is suffering is for the benefit of someone else, to bring that other individual to a life of righteousness.

69. 33:40

    And so they look at Job believing that all suffering is the result of sin, the punishment of sin. And they say now there’s a great sufferer, and therefore they looked at Job as a great Sinner. And I think it’s very, very important that God has inspired the Book of Job to be written in such ancient times to put this doctrine of exact retribution to rest. And I think there’s a good reason for it. If we were to believe that when a person sinned a little bit, they would suffer a little bit right now, or if they sinned a lot, they would suffer a lot right now, we would have a terrific problem.

70. 34:25

    We find that that problem continues to rear its head throughout history, even down to the time in which we Live Today. The biggest problem is this. If we were to believe that because a person was suffering, they’d committed some particular sin, and we’re suffering in proportion to that sin, we would turn around and look at our Lord and Savior Jesus.

71. 34:45

    Cross Christ affixed to the cross, and we would say there’s a great sufferer. There must be a great Sinner if we didn’t realize that he was suffering not for his own sins, which he had not, but he was suffering for the benefit of all mankind. That’s why he was there. And if it wasn’t that we had this type, and indeed Job is a type of God’s suffering innocent servant.

72. 35:16

    If we didn’t have that type snuggled away way back near the beginning of our Bibles, and we’ve already pointed out that the book of Job is probably the second oldest book of the Bible, we would not have been able to look upon the Lord Jesus Christ in quite the right way. We find that the idea of exact retribution was still in existence at the time of Christ.

73. 35:36

    If you remember how Jesus was talking to his apostles and he said that, do you suppose those men upon whom the Tower of Siloam fell were sinners above anyone else in Judea? He says, I tell you, no. But he used the opportunity to say, you better watch out what you do. You might have a worse faith befall you, but still, he pointed out that they were not suffering in any particular exact retribution arrangement. It wasn’t because they’d sinned terribly that that terrible thing had befallen.

74. 36:08

    And, you know, today there’s still a lot of people in the world that still have this idea of exact retribution, The idea that if you do something bad, God is going to punish you in proportion to it right now, immediately. In this light, you know, it wasn’t very many years ago when there was a popular country and Western song that came out by two very prominent singers in this country, George Jones and Tammy Wynette, And it was entitled God’s Going to Get You for that. I think perhaps some of you may remember it. And it nearly reflected the general idea that’s still prevalent in the world of exact retribution, that if a person sins a little bit, they’re going to be punished a little bit right away.

75. 36:50

    And if they sin a lot, they’re going to be punished a lot right away. And this debate that now is going to ensue between Job and his three friends is based upon that particular doctrine, the doctrine of exact retribution. Job’s three friends speak up and they begin to condemn Job. And we find that in this debate there are three cycles of speeches. First of all, Eliphaz speaks and Job replies. Then Bildad speaks and Job replies, and then Zophah speaks and Job replies.

76. 37:26

    And then we have a second round just like that, followed by a third round with a slight deviation. In the third round we find that yes, LFA speaks and Job replies, Bildad speaks and Job replies. But when Bildad speaks, he has a very, very short speech, a speech of only 5 verses, and we find that so far doesn’t even come forward to give a speech at all. Now I know that there are some that would say, well after this we have two long monologues by Job and they would like to attribute one of those monologues to Zofar to keep a balance in the book, claiming that well, that was really his speech and not Job’s after all.

77. 38:10

    There doesn’t seem to be any real countenance for this, certainly not in the way the book is worded, and in the way the debate is gone. There doesn’t seem to be any countenance for it either. Job’s three friends are resting their debate, and we’re not going to have a chance to go over 28 chapters verse by verse. I don’t think the other two teachers would be willing to give up their time anyway.

78. 38:31

    We have to be here all afternoon anyway. I’m not going to ask them because they might say something in there, but we’re not going to have the chance for that. But what we’ll try to do is give a very brief outline of the arguments that are presented in the way in which they are presented. We find that Job is winning the argument as he goes along. Now the argument starts out this way, first of all with the older of the three making a very interesting claim. And it’s quite appropriate that the older speak first. That’s the way they did it then.

79. 39:03

    We don’t always do it that way today, but it certainly showed a very excellent mark of respect for the elders. We find that this Eliphaz who speaks of himself, as we mentioned earlier yesterday as being older than Job’s father Grey headed speaking in the first person, suggests that he may have been comparable with the Job’s grandfather and therefore it was quite appropriate that Job sit and listen to the instruction of his elder and he makes a very remarkable claim that’s extremely difficult to refute.

80. 39:39

    He claims that he has a heavenly vision. He claims that God is revealed to him that exact retribution is correct, and therefore, since he can see with his own eyes that Job is indeed a great sufferer, he knows that Job must indeed have been a great Sinner. And therefore he encourages Job to confess his sin, to seek forgiveness from God, to repent of that sin and live differently.

81. 40:06

    And then he suggests that God would heal him and he long no longer would have to suffer. This is his claim and you know. It’s very difficult when we have to debate with someone who claims to have a heavenly vision. Ever tried to talk the truth with someone who claims to have the power of the Spirit, who claims that they’re a Pentecostal and that God has told them there’s a little something inside of them that tells them they’re right?

82. 40:33

    They know they’re right. They don’t feel they have to go to the word of God. They don’t feel that they have to prove what they think is true or not. They know inside, and there’s virtually no way of convincing an individual like that, even though they may or may not persuade us. And there are certainly many passage in the scriptures that can show that that is not a correct line of reasoning. Nevertheless, to that individual, we’re not going to make much of AB check.

83. 40:59

    It’s very difficult to convince someone who claims they’ve received a heavenly vision that they’re wrong because they say there’s something inside that tells them that they’re right. And likewise with this Eliphaz. He claimed the heavenly vision. Job does refute what he says because Job is in one interesting position. Even though he didn’t know exactly why he was suffering. He knew because he knew his own life that he hadn’t committed any particular hideous sin.

84. 41:32

    He knew that he wasn’t suffering from some particular thing that he had done wrong. And even though he himself had believed in the doctrine of exact retribution, at least up until now, he knows that in his case it doesn’t apply. He knows that he hasn’t committed anything wrong, and therefore he does something that’s absolutely proper.

85. 41:53

    He said, look, if I’ve committed a particular sin, you name it and then I’ll repent of it. What is it? And you know that’s not improper. You know, the Lord Jesus Christ was confronted by his opponents and he said, which of you convinceth me of sin? The actual translation would be convicted me of sin.

86. 42:13

    In other words, he said, look, if I’ve sinned, name it and there’s nothing wrong with that. And you know, if somebody accuses us of doing something wrong and we didn’t do it, we’d say, hey, I’m innocent and there isn’t anything wrong with that. The problem, of course is when we try to even kid ourselves into thinking that we’re perfectly righteous individuals and haven’t done anything wrong and we know that we’ve all sinned and come chart of the glory of God.

87. 42:37

    But when we’re accused of a particular sin, if we haven’t done it, there’s nothing wrong with pleading our innocence. And that’s exactly what Job was doing. So let’s remember that his fault was not saying I haven’t committed this particular hideous sin that you accused me of. If I have name it, it was a perfectly proper thing that he should do.

88. 42:56

    When Bildad comes on the scene, we find that when he speaks up, he follows the same line of reasoning, feeling that Job must have committed some particularly hideous sin. But he comes at it from a different direction. He relies on the wisdom of antiquity, or in other words, tradition, he says. Now look, Job, we’ve always believed this. We have believed in exact retribution for many, many centuries.

89. 43:28

    And you know, we can’t be wrong if people have believed it all that time. How often have we talked with individuals that belong to a church or denomination that is held to a particular view of doctrines for hundreds of years? It’s pretty difficult to discuss with them because that’s what they’ll bring up as tradition, they’ll say.

90. 43:48

    Do you really think that man could have been wrong for 100 or 1000 or more years in this particular doctrine? Why? This is what we’ve always believed. It’s got to be right? And I know we’ve all talked to individuals who have held this position. I hope you’ll forgive me for a moment, but there are sometimes problems that may come up in our cliches. And I’ve even heard some brethren stand up and say, well, this is our Christadelphian heritage. We believe this for a long time.

91. 44:19

    It must be right, and how often it is when we have a problem in the occlusion that might even involve a vote on disfellowship. Then instead of sitting down and examining that problem anew from every single angle to see what we should do, we’ll say, well, you know, I was brought up to say this is wrong.

92. 44:37

    And they don’t even show up to special classes on a given subject, but they sure show up for the vote. They say, well, we’ve always believed it this way, and that’s the way it’s going to be. Instead of sitting down and say, you know, let’s look at this afresh and see what the Scripture really does have to say.

93. 44:54

    We can be guilty of this traditional, this wisdom of the antiquities, just as much as Bill Dad could. And he brings up this idea to Job and says, you know, Job, we’ve always believed this. It must be right. You believed it yourself. The problem is, you’re just not willing to apply it to yourself. You’ve done something pretty bad. Why don’t you admit it, confess it, repent of it, seek God’s forgiveness, and he’ll heal you.

94. 45:25

    But of course, Job knew that he had. And again, we’re in a very unique position. We’re in the position of having the testimony of the Almighty back in that first and second chapter, which spoke up and told us that it wasn’t anything terrible that Job had done, but instead he was suffering for the benefit of somebody else.

95. 45:48

    We’re in that remarkably unique position. And so then comes along the third individual here, Job’s third friend by the name of So Far, and he takes another position. He suggests that perhaps Job is guilty of some unknown sin, That perhaps Job has done something that he didn’t even realize was wrong in the 1st place or may have even forgotten about it, and that’s why God is punishing him. He’s almost conceding the argument. Could you imagine God punishing something? Punishing someone for something they didn’t even know about an unknown sin?

96. 46:24

    According to the scripture, individuals be punished for the things that they know. Of course we have the benefit of added scripture since the time of so far. But we know the scripture says that he that knoweth to do good and do with it, not to him it is sin. And so we find that knowledge of sin is necessary before there’s going to be retribution for it. We learn that the man that’s in honor and understandeth not is like the beast that perish.

97. 46:48

    He isn’t going to be rewarded for doing good, but he isn’t going to be punished for doing evil. He has this life and that’s it. And so to consider Zofar’s argument that Job may very well have been guilty of some unknown sin is virtually conceding the case to Job. And we find that these individuals go on in their debate throughout these three cycles.

98. 47:11

    And within those cycles, finally the idea is brought up that, well, perhaps Job wasn’t guilty of a sin of Commission. It may have been that Job was guilty of a sin of omission, that he had an opportunity to do good and he neglected to do it. The suggestion is made that perhaps a widow or an orphan had come to Job and Job could have helped, or maybe even come to that to him. But he was aware of their plight and he hadn’t given them the the welfare, the relief that they could have used. And therefore he may be suffering for some sin of omission, something he could have done that he neglected to do.

99. 47:51

    And it’s interesting. As we go through the debate between Job and his three friends, we find that there is a section where Job categorically denies having committed any of these sins of omission, and points out that he had very often helped orphans and widows in their plight, that he had not turned their back upon them. He makes this claim that perhaps one of the most important parts of Job’s defense is this in the 21st chapter, and I’m not going to go through it.

100. 48:23

     It would be rather long, but for your own benefit. We find that Job points out something very, very important which shows that his mind has been changed in regard to the doctrine of exact retribution. He’s come to the position where he realizes that the doctrine of exact retribution is not correct. There he points out, and we find that David also does in the Psalms, that there are many individuals that are obviously wicked in the way in which they live. They live a life of absolute sin. And yet strangely enough, they seem to get along in this life somewhat better than many other individuals that are obviously far, far more righteous than they. And you know, we’ve looked around at this condition ourselves and we wonder why some of these very well known criminals seem to get along very, very well. They may be the head of the mafia or something like that. And they seem to get along pretty good. They have a fine life, They have a lot of money. They have perhaps a large family, seem to get along quite well in life.

101. 49:31

     Perhaps they don’t even have too much disease or sickness or pain. And when death finally does come, it comes in a moment by perhaps a sudden, sudden heart attack or perhaps one of the hit men from their opposition, I don’t know. But anyway, death comes very, very quickly. They don’t have a problem such as Job is having, whether he may have weeks or months, whether he’s suffering in tremendous agony before death comes.

102. 49:58

     And so Job brings up this observation to his friends, and it’s an argument that they cannot refute. And when we look around about us, we see individuals that seem to get along far, far better in their lives of sin, where they left God totally out of it. Then we do, and when problems come up, we may say, why is it that God let’s this happen to me? And I know many of us have been in that position of wondering why God would let this happen to me. And we’ve often said why me, Why me? And there are reasons sometimes why God permits us to suffer. And as we get on to the speeches of Eliah, who and pick particularly the speeches of the Almighty, we’re going to have an opportunity to see those.

103. 50:45

     But Job has now come to the position where he realizes that this doctrine of exact retribution is not really correct. He’s changed his mind, however, perhaps not completely. He has a wish within his heart. First of all, he wishes that he could have it out with God. I think that’s now I’m looking at my note.

104. 51:10

     I think that’s back in the 13th chapter. He wishes that he could call to God and have God answer him, that they could actually talk about it face to face and have it out. Because he doesn’t really feel that God has been treating him just right. He’s here. He’s lived a good life.

105. 51:30

     He’s done everything he could to maintain his integrity. Even when God has removed all of his wealth, when God has removed his children from life, and even now, when God has put him in this position of agony, he still maintained his integrity and he figures that God owes him something because of it.

106. 51:48

     And I wonder if there’s times when we’ve come to the position of saying, look, we’ve learned the truth, Must be pretty smart to figure it out when there’s so many millions of people that don’t know it. And here we’ve been baptized, We’ve called upon the name of the Lord for the remission of our sins. We become active in the Ecclesia. We give up a great deal of our time and energy, and perhaps even a little bit of our wealth, in our service to God. Why is it that God doesn’t treat us a little bit better than we are?

107. 52:18

     Why does God permit the trials and tribulations of this life to come upon us, perhaps far out of proportion of what we think we deserve? Job didn’t think that God had treated him just right, and in so doing, he was virtually accusing God of being unjust and unrighteous. In fact, he actually makes that claim.

108. 52:43

     He says God has taken away my judgment. In other words, God hasn’t treated me just. And we find that when Elijah comes on the scene, we’re going to have some of those claims answered. And when the Almighty speaks, we’re going to have more of them answered. But Job wishes that he could have it out with God, because he figures that if he could sit down and actually have a discussion, a debate, an argument if you will, with the Almighty, that he would be able to show that he was right and God was wrong.

109. 53:13

     Now that’s a bit of a problem, isn’t it? But that’s the attitude that he had. But God didn’t say anything. God remained absolutely silent. And then, of course, he goes on to accuse God of being silent even when called upon, and he finally comes to the position where that he wishes that he could have a dazed man.

110. 53:33

     That’s not a word that we use very often, is it? The word daisman actually means a mediator or an arbitrator. He wishes that there could be some individual that would be a go between between him and God. He says, look, if God won’t talk with me directly, perhaps God might be willing to talk with me through some other individual. And therefore, if he could have this mediator, this arbitrator, as a go between between him and God, why he felt that he was absolutely right in his position and therefore the arbitrator of course will be taking his side and not God’s side. I wonder how often we’ve had that feeling in our own hearts where we felt that we were right and if only we could have somebody speak up for us to God.

111. 54:18

     You know, it’s interesting in regard to this days men, we can’t help but realize that this is getting us awfully close to the Lord Jesus Christ. And another aspect of his work. We realize that now Jesus sits on the right hand of the Father. He’s the mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.

112. 54:40

     But we find that when this Daisman comes on the scene, and one does come on the scene for Job, this daisman becomes a type of the Lord Jesus Christ. This daisman of course, is going to be the young man alive Who that we’re going to talk about tomorrow. We’re going to try to keep from going into his speeches, but here we find that when Eli, who comes on the scene, instead of taking Job’s side and approaching God, he takes God’s side and presents God’s position to Job. And isn’t this the exact same position that the Lord Jesus took before he became the Advocate with the Father for human beings making intercession for our sins? He first makes God known to us, and consequently we come across so many verses in the scriptures which the Trinitarians latch on to very quickly, not recognizing the full significance of those verses such as ye who have seen me have seen the Father. God dwells in a light that’s unapproachable. God can’t be put on a test to there’s no way that we can examine an invisible God that cannot possibly be seen, that never has been seen, or can be seen by mortal man. The only way that we can understand God is by his revealing himself to us, first of all in the pages of the Scripture, and finally at the appointed time in the life of his only begotten Son.

113. 56:14

     And so here we find that God indeed was revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, tomorrow we’re going to take up the speeches of Elihu. We’re going to recognize Elihu as the very days men that Job had requested, and we’re going to see how that he first demonstrates God to Job instead of taking up Job’s position before God.

114. 56:38

     So we’ll leave that and we’ll consider it tomorrow. Thank you for listening to the good Chris Adelphian Talks Podcast. We hope this talk helped you in your walk and brightened your day. If you would like to hear more, please subscribe for new episodes. We are on all major podcast platforms and also on YouTube. If you enjoyed this particular talk, please share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too. For show notes on the talk you just listened to, visit [email protected] or check out the Show Notes section of your podcast player.

115. 57:25

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116. 57:41

     You can send a suggestion using the Contact Us tab on our website or message us on any of our social media accounts. Thank you for listening. God bless and talk to you next week.