093: Harry Tennant - Ecclesial Eldership: Solving Problems

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:13

   Welcome to the good Christian talks podcast. I’m Levi. And I’m Chris. Thank you so much for joining us this week. On this podcast, we select one taco week to help each one of us. Get the Bible in our daily news feed. We post at the start of each week for you to listen. With a short intro beforehand to kind of set the stage for the talk, you’re about to hear.

2. 0:33

   And now let’s hear more about this week’s talk. Today’s class is called solving problems by Brother, Harry tenant. It’s from a series, he did on called a collegial leadership. This is from 1987. And he the actually, the information for the where the talk was presented is not on Chris laughing talks.com. But he says right at the end of this actual class that it’s presented at Bucks, County Pennsylvania in 1987 very much enjoyed this series. This it is a you know he addresses a lot of very interesting and helpful very practical Intercollegiate, all topics.

3. 1:24

   I felt this class was kind of had the most interesting pieces for us as a closure of members to apply. I think, I don’t know how often Chris. I need to use this disclaimer because I think all of us, you know, anyone would feel the same way that I personally just don’t agree with absolutely The thing that brother Harry tenant says but in this class, but that’s also been true for other classes that we presented. I don’t think you need to agree with everything that you hear to recognize it as a as a really good and useful talk. So I still think it’s a again, an incredibly helpful study. But also also just interesting being that it is now 33 years old and, you know, it’s kind of a snapshot, a little bit of a snapshot back in time as Some recommendations he makes are just outdated but it’s a again, really, excellent talk, I’m really excited to share it.

4. 2:24

   Please reach out to us. As you as you all have continued to do. So providing I’m toxic stations for us to use for the show. And thank you so much for listening. Here is solving problems by her tenant. On the subject of ecclesial, eldership, taking heed to all the flock.

5. 2:45

   We are pleased to have our brother Harry tenant of the Watford England. Ecclesia address us. Now in this fourth session which is entitled dealing with problems, brother tenant. This time in a study date. My dear brother or sisters brethren.

6. 3:12

   At least some of us were awake. We discovered that our powers of concentration of greatly diminished and that we listen to what we want to listen to. And the rest goes over our heads. However, the last session that you’ve had together in discussing problems, has in fact, been a perfect illustration of working as a team rather than seeking, to solve a problem as one individual, I read through all of those.

7. 3:39

   Problem cases. I’m not sure he’s thought of what I would do as an individual and I was surprised at the extent to which the teams together had. In fact, produce a range of thought and sometimes of options. All of which were both stimulating and I believe helpful.

8. 4:01

   Let us take then simple. Extremely simple things which help us to distance ourselves from the problem in order that we might look at it? The first thing is to remember that the Lord Jesus Christ is in charge of the occasions.

9. 4:26

   In other words, our problem is his problem. This helps tremendously in singing to solving. I remember living our own occasion, we had a problem that was what it seemed that they would be.

10. 4:44

    Such trouble in seeking to solve it. That we wrestled with it for a long time. In my own mind, I did not arrive at that kind of contentment that helps to deal with a matter that stabilizing satisfaction until I had actually gone in prayer and said Lord this is your problem.

11. 5:09

    Who is seeking to Soul? I’m thinking his Blessing, so it’s good to remember just stand back and remember that before ever, the problem arose, the Lord knew it was going to arise. And therefore, he has made provision amongst his faithful. That they will be able to cope with that. We just happened. We are not tried above that that we are able to bear and therefore the Lord God, the Lord Jesus Christ. The angels are at work that we might be able to deal with those things that arrive inside the occasion. The next thing is, and this is, this too, is just distancing oneself.

12. 5:54

    We are a Christian delphian occasion. It is not open to us to provide other options than those. Our community. In other words, we are moving within our community, but all kinds of ways of solving problems, like marriage counselors will tell. Couples. How to solve their problem? They may say were the best thing you can do is in fact to go your Separate Ways. Or one of the counselors may say to 11 people confidentially. I think the best thing you can do is to leave her. Now, these are not options that are open to us. Because we have to solve our problems within the context of scripture.

13. 6:34

    What would the Lord Jesus Christ? Say as Brother, David Jennings said, When he was reporting on what his group and done. So, those are two things. The third thing is this what you have discovered, what we all discover is that it is easier to solve a problem together than to try to solve it alone. That those heads together in the group, although they didn’t go work at the same speed or all perceive the problem from the same angle on this impossible, to do that to proceed. Everything from the same angle.

14. 7:13

    Although that happened, what happened in the end was that they were contributions that proved helpful and I’m sure though I was not present in any one of the group’s. I am sure that those Solutions did not come from one individual in any group. What happened while I was it as they discussion started to flow and someone made a suggestion, then somebody said are well. Now in that case, in other words, what happens is we have combined Fellowship sinking.

15. 7:43

    Now they were all theoretical problems and therefore we became involved in them. As are you find on any kind, of course, that people go to, they always become involved in the actual thing that is given to them, but the thing that is given to them is not the problem. That isn’t the problem. The problem is, how to deal with problems. And these were just illustrators of how to do it so we haven’t got to go home.

16. 8:08

    And so what on Earth would I do with that? Thirty thousand dollar mortgage, then how would I solve that? Because that problem doesn’t exist we have been site into thinking it does and it was good that that was that was useful and all of us went straight in and had a look at each of those things as a real problem but they were only imaginary problems or I suppose there was a touch of truth that somebody said I had we had something like that.

17. 8:38

    I remember in our Ecclesia and it from another occasion something like it. well, they ranged over if you noticed the problems that have to do with Relationships within the Ecclesia relationships between, and among decreases relationships between husband and wife relationships with the world. They were not so far as I can remember. Specifically, except in the case of the Ecclesia that decided that it would not withdraw from anybody under any circumstances. There were not many instances in those questions of something that was completely off the rails doctrinally, there were hints of those things but that those didn’t feature prominently, they do not feature so prominently these days as they used to because we are caught up in this terrible in Vortex of our world.

18. 9:40

    It’s sucking us down into all kinds of moral problems within the occasion. Here are the four headings I use in order to have a look at a problem.

19. 9:56

    And the best thing always is to have a piece of paper in order to set it down. I was very interested and it’s totally American. I was very interested. I doubt whether there was any one of those four boards that ever suggested a letter, That’s probably because your personal system isn’t totally reliable. And if you’re sending it to Canada, it’s worse still. All right, but Americans don’t write letters. It’s out of the phone or the modem or the Telex but very rarely writing letters.

20. 10:35

    The advantage of writing letters is you’ve got to set down your ideas and that clarifies them. That clarifies the map helps to focus the mind if I can’t say it on paper. I don’t understand it. I might have all kinds of feelings about it and I can’t say it on paper, in some way.

21. 10:53

    I don’t understand it. It’s any problems down. I get a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle and do the pros, and the cons this for that against, and keep on going down it. But here are the four headings that I have. What am I trying to do about this problem? In other words, what is my objective? Not the immediate objective about the 30,000 thing? What am I trying to do with the person’s concern? That was the real problem.

22. 11:22

    The problem wasn’t the money. That person has several partners because somebody had created a deadline and it had an urgency about it but that wasn’t the problem. The problem was how inverted these people get into this condition. Now why aren’t they in contact with our occasion more than they have been recently? That was the basic problem so on needs to know what is the real problem? What am I trying to do about the problem? Secondly, what do I need to know in order to do what I want to do?

23. 12:02

    Sadly, how am I going to do? What I want to do, what is my plan? What is, what is the way of approach to it? unfortunately, how do I implement it and when And fifthly.

24. 12:26

    Review it. Go back, over it later on and have a look at it. And see whether in fact, we did the right thing in doing what we did. So those are just standard kinds of approaches in problem solving, I find them helpful because when after all they’re just common sense but it’s good to set them down because you sometimes find yourself jumping to how to do it before.

25. 12:50

    You know what it is you’re trying to do or have I got the information or when And the crisscrossing of these things, only confuses if you care to get this little book is out. Of y’all binder. You may find it helpful. This is taking heed to the occasion of God.

26. 13:18

    On page 60. You’ll see that they’re there are set out eight items. As a practical method of approaching the problem is it doesn’t claim to be the only method. This happens to be a talk that I gave so I can use it freely, it doesn’t claim to be the only method it claims to be a method. Now goes through it and check whether when you tackle your problem in the group, You applied any or all of these? I’ve never extra ones real.

27. 13:57

    Well, there was a better one that we could have had on these eight or in addition to the relief. So keep it and use it. So the first one was and you saw the groups all trying to do this ascertain, all of the facts we didn’t find a groups taking the next part.

28. 14:21

    And assess their relative importance. Not all things are as important as the others. There are things that you can say what we can. We can set that on one side sometimes in solving a problem. We try to solve all of it. As a matter of fact, sometimes there are parts that we can leave and say we’ll come back to that later on. Second pursue patiently thoroughly and firmly the scriptural procedure.

29. 14:57

    Designed to remove the problem in the right manner. The groups that what I remember did that they had people who were going to look at the scriptures, it’s good to have it high on the list. In fact, in a group of five arranging Brethren, it is good, that one can have to, to do the fact-finding on the case and to, to have a look at it, from a structural point of view Puritan, scripture what the scriptures say about this. And those who are using the scripture, then not finding their thinking tinged with the actual problem. They’re looking at what scripture says and those are doing the fact-finding are not having to confuse themselves at that time by saying, well, the scriptures said these things and these facts, won’t matter.

30. 15:45

    Find out all of the facts, they do matter sometimes within a problem effect emerges later on, which is the whole answer to the problem and it wasn’t there at the beginning. It was not there at the beginning. you may find, for example, somebody who has Suffered abuse when they were a child. They may not be willing ever to talk about that until they find themselves coming to the end of the line. Now, you may have been trying to solve the problem by all kinds of other methods when you suddenly discover that, there’s a lurking fear, a sense of degradation. A sense of contamination, a sense of wanting to keep away from other people that the person may have just because of that, kind of fact.

31. 16:37

    So pursue patiently on that means very careful. Talking with the people concerned, not assuming any Authority or assuming that we know the answers, nor even assuming we know what the problem is. A husband and wife were involved, it is good to hear both of them talking. Each of them talking Do it together, if possible. But when going through it, say, That’s how you see it better. Is it Jim’s give them.

32. 17:07

    They, well then she says, well, that’s not not quite how I see it because there’s the children. And then you begin to see that, there’s another angle on the problem, but just pursue slowly and can do it. People case seen you in dealing with the problem. A problem has arrived, most things, most dates that we fix our artificial.

33. 17:32

    They’re just things that are in our own mind. We must get this cleared as quickly as possible. Now, to many Brethren sisters clearing a problem as quickly as possible is opening the occasional door and sweeping it out. I no longer have the problem. We have got rid of the person concerned. The problem is still there. That person concerned is outside the occasion, and that’s a problem.

34. 17:59

    We lost a sheep and it wasn’t ours either. We try to account for it. We have to account for our sheep. Before the Lord God that’s the nature of the work of eldership of being an arranging brother in the fact that we’ve got the person outside may keep the meeting room clean but it need not be the right answer.

35. 18:29

    It sometimes is the answer. We have to go through that process. So, avoid being rushed. We had a major problem in our Ecclesia in Watford, a number of years ago, that Disturbed the Brotherhood all over the world.

36. 18:46

    and consequently, there were articles published in magazines, and All kinds of letters received by the arranging Brethren, all kinds of letters. If you don’t deal with this, then why, well, how is it that you’re not having this problem right away? It’s pretty clear, isn’t it? This is what this is what should be done and he should not be.

37. 19:03

    They’re all breaking bread with you and all the letters come in and everybody outside in another occasion sees it. So simply the problem is simple, it’s like bringing up other people’s children. There is no problem with other people’s children. It took us two years to deal with that problem. And we refuse to be hasty.

38. 19:28

    We finally withdrew from the brother. But there was nothing that the brother could say all his family could say. All that we could ever reproach ourselves with. It was able to then at some future time to be brought up and said you failed in that respect. We may have failed, but it was not, it was not through, not handling the whole on. The problem, we had to write to all these people who get writing, assuring them, it would be me with the problem and they do not believe you.

39. 20:02

    We do community of Facebook. We don’t believe one another. Very interesting and we’re actually, we weren’t spending every week. We were spending, I would say, 10 hours a week. Dealing with this matter, it was a complex matter. They thought it was all about evolution. That’s that’s what other people said it’s Eeveelution. And we don’t believe any Rouge would live in creation even if should never enter into our consideration because it wasn’t the problem.

40. 20:32

    The problem was the atonement. That was a problem. We had to solve, but it had to be sold. And so, we took time, we pursued patiently, thoroughly and firmly, and we did a lot of it by writing. They can absolutely sure that what we were saying, was crystal clear to the person concerned. Do not assume that when you speak to him, he hears what you say.

41. 21:01

    You said it and you know what you mean. He heard it. He may have another meaning and therefore a letter helps to make things clear. and what is more a letter on file is something that all the arranging Brethren have and one can look back at and say, oh, but we did say this and it is surprising in dealing with the problem how we forget the stages through which, we’ve been So, careful notes and prayer the whole way. So items 3 avoid being rushed whilst at the same time making sure the problem does not spread I’m sorry. This is a doctrinal problem whilst it is being dealt with then.

42. 21:44

    One brings the guillotine down. On the person who may have been spreading false Doctrine and say, you must not speak in the occasion. That is a safeguard whilst we examine this. We are sure he’s benefit you and it is better for us. Well, that clears the lines.

43. 22:07

    Item 4, where the problem is deep or complex. In other words, it’s not a simple problem that is hard like owning a hundred thousand dollars and there’s no other problem but just owing a hundred thousand dollars by some mischance. All right. Somebody who is not insured. Set into the road. And causes some kind of accident on some other person who is not in a car is injured. And we’re finally pursued by law. And finally, the judge says, all the jury say this 100 thousand dollars you got to pay.

44. 22:50

    Now that might have only just mean by a freak of accident, but that’s a simple problem. Although it’s a large one in the sense of how much money is involved, but when you got a deep pore complex problem where it’s not easy to get to grips with it, I’m not all arranging Brethren St at the same level.

45. 23:09

    Then devote special meetings to it with no other business. Just discuss that problem alone. All right, and the two Brethren that you asked to have a look at the problem. Let them talk. To tell you how it looks, what they see. And then question them. But what did they say about this? But haven’t they got a cousin? You remember?

46. 23:38

    I’m still on the Wii U, pursue the questioning, I found that extremely helpful. Look at number five. In that major problem that we had, this is how we solved it. Ensure that all members of the arranging committee make their views known, not just the ones who talk make everybody talk. And the way to do it is to commence the discussion with a different person every time. and then to work around, and everybody has spoken it was extremely interesting Brethren, and the case that I mentioned We took a snap vote of the arranging Brethren when we commenced to discuss it.

47. 24:26

    And the snap vote was if we were to take action now who would this fellowship? And who would not on the vote was for for his fellow shipping and 3 for not, We pursue that case. We came to the end of our period of time. We took our final decision. And it was 74, disfellowshipping.

48. 24:52

    That was a great process. It was a marvelous education. And the best friend of the person concerned was amongst the seven. That took some doing. But it proved that, It produced unity and the unity was produced by going through number five. Every time we started with those with somebody different but even those Brethren who normally didn’t string, a lot of words together, once they saw the process came in and spoke, and it was good.

49. 25:28

    Six, you have to keep the occasion, informed. Now that can be by the recording of the arranging Brethren’s, meetings and putting in the minutes that which is, it is essential to put in and having those red at the quarterly business meeting. And so, the occlusion is informed and what is workin? Call the arranging Brethren to task. If need be It may be necessary in some cases. For example, the 30,000 dollar Wang. It may have been necessary the following somebody to say something.

50. 26:09

    The piece you may have heard that there is a pretty considerable financial problem in connection with brother and sister so and so we would like to assure the Ecclesia that the ranging Brethren are already examining this matter. That helps because it means that the Ecclesia can pray about it as well. But the same time you haven’t got to breach confidentiality have you?

51. 26:34

    That all confidential pieces of information that come out of complex cases that we do not repeat to the occasion. Now, you may think that everything should be laid before the occasion, every single item. There are certain items rather and that would want, one should not lay. Sometimes the information is so intimate and painful.

52. 27:00

    But even to get that information from the person voluntarily from the per person is such a traumatic experience. Then to make everybody else aware of it and to talk about it and to trade it freely would be a disaster. So one has to be careful with the information.

53. 27:23

    Look at items 7. Keep in touch with those who are the cause of the problem. In other words, don’t treat them as though they are. A long way away from us in some respect or other the treat them as being Brethren and sisters, who are still in fellowship with us. Although we have a problem with them.

54. 27:49

    We are dealing patiently and sympathetically with them. I’m not. That is one that sometimes not done. The people need reassurance, and then finally laying the results before the occasion. In our particular case, we laid it before the occasion in writing at the end. So, the occasion was at all, the Ecclesia able to have in writing before the actual meeting they were able to have in writing all the necessary details of the case. And as I say, we had to withdraw in there. Now, there’s a very Zone.

55. 28:26

    A system that can be used. It’s worthwhile keeping that near at hand when you’ve got a problem just to make sure that there isn’t one of them that slipping through the net, for example, item, seven or items six. Those are easy things we get. So involved in dealing with it that we forget other people are in darkness.

56. 28:47

    And we’ve got to prevent the spread of the problem in some way or another within our occasion. Arranging president will be accused of not doing anything of dealing unsympathetically. And so on, that is standard reaction from people who are concerned, we have to have broad enough backs to carry that. Today is just saying, you know, getting angry and say, oh, we’re doing all we can about this problem. Then you stand, criticizing us what happens Brethren, get concerned.

57. 29:13

    And we just have to take what they lay upon. Because that is part of looking after the flock. And as the Lord himself we’ve misunderstood. So, as his servants, we are socially misunderstood from time to time. Next item and this is not so clear in this country as it might be in other parts of the world. Occasional autonomy and that’s you notice is mentioned here but you need to worry about reading those parts in this booklet, ecclesial autonomy.

58. 29:54

    And our relationship with other occasions. Now, he’s an autonomy. Is that every occasion decides for itself? That’s what occasional autonomy means and all of us are glad that we do that. At the same time, we have to remember that we are deciding as a christadelphians Ecclesia. So, our neighboring occasions, expect us to make a decision as a christadelphians, occasi not as something that is, you know, plucked out of the air, which is totally unscriptural unscrew our on christadelphians.

59. 30:29

    And say, well, we’ve got the solution. This is it. What we have to do is to produce a solution that is compatible with. What we are as a community so we have to keep other people in mind even though the problem may only be our problem, it may not have any ramifications at all. No repercussions on other occasions. Until of course, one member from our Ecclesia moves to another occasion.

60. 30:56

    And then we have to send a letter of commendation, do we not? That’s the standard drill. It’s the right drill and when we send a letter of commendation from our Ecclesia to the other Ecclesia that letter of commendation, should mean what it says. That we are currently on. Transferring to you.

61. 31:20

    Our brother Richard Bradley who is in good standing with our occasion and we shall greatly miss his fellowship and service. We trust that he will be happy in his new occasion and that you will find him. A similarly, a good brother. Now that letter is clear to the occasion that receives it when, when the brother arrives, When the letter arrives. then recording brother could say, well, glad to meet you Brother, Richard I’ve heard from your occasion and I’m sure you’re going to be happy here. What we do with all transfers in our occasion. Don’t know what you’re doing, yours. Every transfer is considered first by the arranging Brethren before it is accepted.

62. 32:12

    We have a look at the letter. It’s a letter is not clear. Then we right back. As we do, by the way in connection with appeals and it is one of these one of these groups thought that perhaps they might need to appeal either Countrywide or perhaps internationally for money. If the letter we received doesn’t make sense.

63. 32:34

    We write back and say we do not understand your letter. You’re asking for 45,000 dollars but you do not say what you’re only closure is contributing what you have already done and so we always make inquiry, we respond very well to every every occasion appeal worldwide. But there’s not one of them that we don’t examine thoroughly because we are custodians of the occasional money so they’ll money.

64. 33:05

    Everyone to send 200 dollars somewhere. Well, you send it personally. That’s how you feel about it, but don’t don’t imagine you could do that freely with the occasions money, if the Ecclesia would not do that. So we’ve got to be good stewards of the money that we have. So in transfers then from one place to another, that’s how we should do you sometimes read behind a letter, you know, we are commending to you. Our sister Wilkinson.

65. 33:34

    And what by the time you reach the second line in the letter, you know that they are saying to you. We are glad she is leaving us and we hope that you can cope with her you know now that that you can read it. All right now that should not be there was some question in the amongst. Those those groups about transfer from one place to another The responsibility for the transferee is the home. Ecclesia.

66. 34:06

    Because that transfer is still there member until you accept and consequently. They should deal with whatever lies behind any problem. Only, it should not be that they transfer the whole problem out to you a marriage problems. At one of these was a marriage problem. The problem is, there’s if her husband has left her that something that that occlusion should know all about and be able to set out the circumstances, not something that the receiving occasion should be examining from scratch. For me, the other Ecclesia that should be doing that. So in problems that affect other occasions are occasional autonomy.

67. 34:43

    Now meets with the occasional autonomy of the other Ecclesia that is suppose. For example, that Ecclesia, a a has withdrawn from a brother And in a few months time, the brother goes to Ecclesia. Be And he says, to one of the Brethren there who happens to be one of the arranging Brethren. Could I have a talk with you? The brother says, well certainly. Let’s meet for lunch or would you rather come down to our house for dinner?

68. 35:14

    So he goes around and he spreads out his problem. And they arranged your brother having heard it says, well that sounds fair enough to me. I’m quite sure that you can be received in our occasion. Until he talks the other arranging Brethren the other arranging Brethren. Say yes will receive them. Now in actual fact, we’ve met we’ve dropped a stitch there. A major Stitch We have no right to receive in our occasion. Somebody who is out of fellowship with another occasion until such time.

69. 35:49

    As we have been in contact with that other occasion. We are all one occasion. The brother has been withdrawn from 18, a have been withdrawn from by an error of judgment, which is easy to arrive to arise from time to time or it may be that his circumstances since then have changed. But be that as it may, the right thing to do is for this occasion now to write to his parent occasion, and say that we have brother be, who was it who come to our meeting and is seeking fellowship with us. So far as we are able to ascertain this brother and then describe what we think about him. However he has told us that he used to belong to your Ecclesia and that you had occasion to withdraw from him. Would you be so kind as to tell us what the circumstances were and whether you would have any objection? Were we to re-examine this matter in the light of present circumstances to our receiving him in our meeting. So now both our teachers are aware The first occasion writes back and says you better be extremely careful. this is the false equation to which he’s been and has caused trouble in a hole for occasion.

70. 37:08

    And the circumstances as they were reported to you are not the whole of the case. Now what we begin to learn then is that the other occasion, had a great deal more knowledge about it than we have in Britain, that would be easy because then the arranging Brethren or two from each of the occasions will be able to meet together here.

71. 37:31

    You might have to do it by a conference call because of distances. But the right thing to do is to make absolutely certain that you don’t get out of step with the first occasion, you may arrive at a different decision from them in the end. The official guide likes makes provision for this. You may arrive at a different decision. It may be in the light of some new facts or it may have been that you feel that you could cope with this problem and that it is within that which are christadelphians occasion should do.

72. 38:07

    That doesn’t mean that you are judging the other Ecclesia. They took a decision, their brethren in all that, they knew at that time in the light of the person when he was there, amongst them when he was that old. I went those events were recent and therefore they took the decision that they believe to be right, and that’s all they can do. You can’t take an infallible decision They may make a mistake on.

73. 38:32

    Therefore there is a certain wisdom that there are other occasions to which a person in due course, may make some are peeled. There is a, there is a certain wisdom in that, but the great thing is to make sure that we keep in contact. And that, when we come to our final decision that, we’re not grossly offending the other occasion. Now, in some matters.

74. 38:57

    And let me just take two of them. One is divorce. And remarriage. And the other is what the present kind of discussion. That’s been going on concerning reunions. Now I’m not going to open out the reunions subject as a subject is just the method by which one might look at things, first of a marriage and divorce. That is not unanimity of view.

75. 39:29

    On this subject, there was unanimity of you on this subject at one time. But that’s a long while ago. And the unanimity of you in those days was for example, that the accepted Clause did operate, that was the view of brother Thomas brother Roberts. Brother Walker, brother, Carter, brother nickel. That was their understanding.

76. 40:01

    All right. I’m not entering into whether they were right or wrong. What we now know is that there are at least four ways of dealing with divorced people.

77. 40:14

    And so there are those for example, who say we will have no divorcee of any kind in our meeting. That’s The Simple Solution. It’s not a perfect solution. It is a simple solution and we draw a line. Everybody has a problem when it comes to what do we do about the stranger? Who comes along, who and is divorce? Is he on this side or that side of the line that we have drawn? However, let’s just take it.

78. 40:43

    That’s one instance, isn’t it? We will have no divorcee in our meeting. At The Other Extreme, there are those who say we will have any divorcee in our meeting provided that we are totally satisfied that that person has repented of what they have done. So that’s the Other Extreme. Then we have line between those those who say we will accept the acceptive clause. And make provision.

79. 41:19

    For any who though not being advised to remarry do. So in our Ecclesia, let’s just take those three as of you. So I could multiply them considerably. I know of two, fellowships for example, one Fellowship says, we will accept no divorce people in our fellowship, this is outside. Our fellowship. They try very hard to maintain that. I don’t believe that their record is totally clean. I don’t think anybody’s record is totally clear on this matter because it’s dealing with human beings against the scriptural background.

80. 41:56

    That’s a problem. I know of another fellowship. Not our fellowship that says, everybody who joins our fellowship must accept the except clause. So they’ve solved that problem. Similarly, by just drawing a line and saying that’s not the line is, that’s what we’re going to follow. No arguments. If you don’t want to have this, come to another fellowship.

81. 42:16

    And so that’s each of those to do in our fellowship. What we have done is to allow the examination of cases, against the scriptural background, which sometimes produce different answers. Now, I know there are people who would like, to have the whole thing cut and dried. There’s no part of our community. That’s got it, cut and dry. No part of our community that has a cut and dry. And I know that from personal experience. Every path has its problems because it’s a very complex subject.

82. 42:49

    What is open to us? Then in Ecclesia a if a clean G of B does something that we would not do had the case been our case. What do we do?

83. 43:04

    Well, these are options that appear to be open one is we will not accept anybody from that, Ecclesia to break bread with us. That is not an option within our fellowship. That is what the dogs Fellowship. Do not our option. that is not what the central federal, however, strongly, we feel, And I haven’t actually said how they dealt with the case or how we would have dealt with it.

84. 43:34

    They’ve dealt with it very harshly or they may have dealt with it sympathetically, which everybody was, we have no option now to say provided that they have behaviors of christadelphians. Ecclesia, we have no option to say concerning them, none of your people will be acceptable with us. We have an option.

85. 43:56

    It’s not a highly logical option but it satisfies the minds of some brother and sisters and that is to say that that divorced people that you have accepted, we will not accept in our occasi at the breaking of bread. And that is an option that is open. The matter of fact, what I would say to divorce people who are accepted that you do not, go trafficking yourself around and asking this Ecclesia and that it gives you to accept you.

86. 44:29

    If your occasion has accepted, you be satisfied, when don’t go and face the problem and everybody else’s doorstep because I don’t think it is right to do that.

87. 44:40

    Similarly, our problem. Is something that does affect our neighbors. And it affects our own Ecclesia. And in the subject of divorce, they have to see what happens to our own occlusion. Not just what happens to the people concerned. What happens to our own occasion, the nature of our Ecclesia, as well, as the case itself. So they need to be looked at with extreme care, but as you can see, The hard line of I’ve cut off the whole of that Ecclesia is not an option that is open to every exercise. It, we are not doing what the central Fellowship done. when you move away from that, then just as an illustration to the question of the cfu, And how should we as arranging Brethren have dealt with that issue.

88. 45:31

    Now it just so happens that I’m not in this country and so, although really I do belong here, I must say I’ve been here so often I’m I really feel that it’s like being at home. So you understand how I’ve agonized with you over what you have been seeking to do, what should arranging Brethren have sought to do? In these circumstances.

89. 45:59

    That are not open to us as individuals one. The responsibility for my Ecclesia rests with Christ. And on Earth was the arranging brethren. It does not rest, just with individual brethren. I believe therefore that in the matter of the cfu, that all letters that were received should have been considered by the arranging brethren But they should have analyzed them against the background of we are a Christian Delphine Ecclesia and this is our statement of faith.

90. 46:46

    And do these things, add up to that statement of faith. And we should have made clear, what? We as arranging Brethren felt so the occasion. Now I feel that that is the least that we can do, because it so happens that from cfu, we’ve had letters sent to individual people. Now there is no scriptural warrant for writing to individual people, but there is no way in which we can complain about that in this country because everybody does it. The standard drill anybody who feels strongly rights to everybody else.

91. 47:23

    And so if we live in a Maverick Country, then there’s no way in which we can complain about people, is this stems from the Americans, right to have his own gun. And I think that, every, every American brother has his own gun in his own way because he feels that he’s going to write just to say his own thing to everybody when write to them about it.

92. 47:44

    Well, that’s the nature of occasion life here, I respect it. I just caricatured it slightly them, but I respected and I love the brother or sisters here. you know, but the responsibility for the individual members of our Ecclesia rest with our arranging brethren There are uninformed Brethren who have been getting these letters, they don’t know where they are. There’s no way in which they can know where they are, not only those that is, but any letter there is no way. The same way that you had a letter from the CMP a because we were asked to say something.

93. 48:25

    Now that letter was sent only two occasions wasn’t sent to individual Brethren. If the case you cares to put it to individual brother, and that’s their concern, but the responsibility lies with a ranging Brethren and the responsibility for the problem lies here in North America, for its solution, not outside. but I feel that, that as arranging brethren, we should have carried our responsibility, It was too big for us. Then in some way, we should have sought to cope with it by a mechanism that would have been acceptable. It would have been possible.

94. 48:58

    For example, to have Written to the old reunions committee and said, would you please advise on this matter for us? These are options, other words, you go through it, like you did this this matter. Here. It was a perfect case of being able to sit down and write. I did is that it won’t marry eventuate?

95. 49:22

    Is that It’s going to be difficult to. Cope with the feelings that are emerged either Pro or Kong this matter. To remember in this matter, we are Krista, Delphine Ecclesia, meet, on a Birmingham, amended statement of play and it’s only on that basis that we can take our decisions. We have no other basis on which to take a decision that’s how we have met.

96. 49:48

    You want to amend that. Then we move out of being a Christian, do Clinic lesion or another fellowship of Christian delphine’s. We might produce I’ve got one or two points in the questions on those issues and brother Paul, I better stop there. I think we should, I can go on, was that helpful? By the way where those those comments helpful? They were direct and they were meant to be helpful and they were not judgmental.

97. 50:16

    In the sense of, I’m aware of what you have done, or you have done. And I disagree with it, not that at all. I had a look at it to see. What would we do in our Ecclesia in Watford? If we have these problems and That’s how we I’m sure it would have tackled it, we wouldn’t have been hastened by any money, but we will Ascend to our own members.

98. 50:36

    Look, This matter needs to be examined, we will seek to examine it on your behalf. We will advise you of our findings that words you keep the Ecclesia intact. And so it’s not ranging elsewhere to try to find some Anchor Point and that’s extremely helpful because that’s our responsibility, they are sheep. And if they’re going to be scattered then, woe betide us because there are flock at the moment and they gather together in the Lord Jesus Christ. And We don’t wish to see any of our sheep scattered and that we try as hard as we can, to hold them together. We’re at the end of the fourth, talk brethren. You may have absorbed one of them or part of them, nobody will absorb all of them.

99. 51:25

    Perhaps, the tapes will be helpful, but I think the intention of the meeting has come through that which we’ve all been seeking to do together and the exercise that was performed together. I think, would pre-eminently be something of help because it made us as individuals apply ourselves to a problem in the Lord Jesus Christ, which do imaginary Exercised Us in all the principles of the truth.

100. 51:53

     I met alone, God bless us in. All that we are seeking to do. and our thanks for those in Bucks County, who Arrange this meeting. With quite an inspiration to do that. I think. And I’m sure that all of us have traveled here will feel that it’s been worthwhile. And may God grant us safety as we each travel to our respective home.

101. 52:26

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102. 52:43

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103. 53:12

     God bless and talk to you next week.