037: Philip Davidson - Depression and Discipleship

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:13

   Welcome to the good Christian talks podcast. I’m Levi and I’m Chris. Thank you so much for joining us this week on this podcast. We select one taco week to help each one of us get the Bible in our daily news feed. We post at the start of each week for you to listen.

2. 0:30

   With a short intro before hand to kind of set the stage for the talk. You’re about to hear and now let’s hear more about this week’s talk.

3. 0:38

   This week’s classes by Brother Philip Davidson. It’s called depression and discipleship. This is a fantastic class of rather. Philip is a doctor. He called himself a rural doctor in Australia, and he does a really good job detailing kind of the specific diagnosis of major depression, which was really helpful for me as someone who obviously has been affected by depression in my in my life as I think all they all have.

4. 1:06

   Bye. Ourselves our loved ones and it was just really helpful to hear him kind of detail it and an understandable way and then relate how we as disciples can deal with it in ourselves or help others and in our communities and in our colleges, so this is a excellent excellent class really excited to share it with you.

5. 1:32

   So we’ll jump right into it. This is Well, I think we’re going to leave the there’s a reading at the beginning of Isaiah 35. So we’re leaving that as well as the intro to the class by Brother Jason bovis. So the first voice you’ll hear is brother Jason’s doing an intro to the class. We’re going to keep all that in the in the talk. So here we go.

6. 1:55

   This is depression and discipleship by Brother Philip Davidson. Good evening brothers and sisters in young people. As the Apostle Paul spread the good news of the gospel of grace unto the Gentiles as we read about in the book of Acts. We learned that he was persecuted by a group of Jews and not only did they reject the message of Paul for themselves, but they also tried to prevent others from believing it as well.

7. 2:23

   The hatred of the Jews reached such a crescendo and Lister that they stoned Paul and they dragged him out of the city supposing him to be dead. It wasn’t until the disciples gathered around him. He rose up and went into the city in the next day. He departed with Barnabas to Derby. It was at Derby that he made the decision to return to the cities that he visited to lystra Iconium and to Antioch and he had one critical message.

8. 2:52

   And that message was we must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God and so it is brothers and sisters that we met intellectually understand that following the steps of the Lord Jesus Christ means that we have to suffer with him. But sometimes the reality of that emotionally flattens us sometimes life this side of the Kingdom depresses us and so this evening. We are privileged to share brother Phil Davidson’s study with us from the Victor Harbor Ecclesia to share some thoughts of his around the theme depression and discipleship. To prepare our minds for brother feels words this evening. We will call upon brother Shem Jameson to read Isaiah chapter 53 chapter 35 the Wilderness and the solitary Place shall be glad for them and the desert shall rejoice and Blossom as the rose it shall Blossom abundantly and rejoice even with joy and singing The Glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it the Excellency of Carmel and Sharon.

9. 4:00

   They shall see the glory of Yahweh and the Excellency of our God. Strengthen you the weekends and confirm the feeble knees say to them that are of a fearful heart be strong fear. Not behold. Your God will come with vengeance even god with a recompense. He will come and save you then the eyes of the blind shall be opened and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped then shall the lame man leap as in heart and the tongue of the dumb sing for in the wilderness.

10. 4:35

    Have Waters break out and streams in the desert. And the parched ground shall become a pool and the Thirsty land Springs of water in the habitation of dragons where each lay shall be grass with reeds and rushes. And in Highway shall be there and a way and it shall be called the way of Holiness the unclean shall not pass over it but it shall be for those the wayfaring man.

11. 5:05

    Those fools shall not enter therein. No lion, shall be there. Not any ravenous beasts shall go up there on it. Shall not be found there, but the redeemed shall walk there. And The Ransom of Yahweh shall return and come to Zion with songs in Everlasting Joy upon their heads. They shall obtain joy and gladness and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

12. 5:35

    And I would like to call Brother Phil Davidson for to speak to the topic depression and discipleship. thank you, brother Jason and good evening, my dear brothers and sisters and and young people brother Jason Isaiah 53 would have been a very appropriate reading also and and in fact, we will be returning there at later on this evening sister Susan and I bring with us the the loving greetings of your brothers and sisters who meet in the in Victor Harbor of thank you for inviting me to be here the Evening depression and discipleship is a is an unusual topic for a Bible class, isn’t it?

13. 6:19

    It’s certainly not something that we would normally consider that we would discuss and think about with our Bible classes. So I do appreciate the opportunity to come and share some thoughts with you depression is a very common problem, but it’s also a problem which historically has not been well understood within the Brotherhood and that purely reflects the fact that depression hasn’t really been very well understood in The Wider Community either but it’s a very common problem. It’s certainly a problem that has significantly affected my family and I’m sure that there would be a number of us here this evening who have had struggles with depression and I’m sure that all of us would know somebody in that situation I certainly don’t profess to have all the answers not by any stretch of the imagination.

14. 7:21

    But what I’m hoping we can do this evening is to have a look at some of the principles together what depression is how depression may affect our life in the truth how it may affect other people’s lives and some of the things that can be done to try to assist ourselves or others who have problems with depression. For those of you who don’t know me particularly over the last 22 years.

15. 7:55

    I’ve been a rural general practitioner and for the last 12 of those years that’s been Down in go over I deliver babies at the Victor Harbor Hospital. I visit 290 bed nursing homes every week in Gula and my practicing Google makes me deal with all sorts of different clinical problems from newborn babies right through to the other end of life, and it would be an incredibly unusual day that I wouldn’t have to deal with the problem of Of depression and so it is it is something that is incredibly common and it’s a difficult and and a challenging area. So let’s let’s start to examine the subject together. Now poor old Eeyore isn’t looking very happy there and then your is never particularly happy. All of us have felt like Eeyore.

16. 9:03

    When the Elohim created Adam in their image and likeness, he was created to be able to have an emotion to be able to respond to his heavenly father in an emotional way life would be incredibly Bland incredibly sterile if we weren’t able to express emotion to be able to laugh. To be able to cry. to be able to empathize with each other to be able to feel so feeling sad is completely normal.

17. 9:47

    It would be horrible if we weren’t able to grieve over the loss of someone close to us. So all of us have felt like Eeyore. All of us have felt depressed. And that’s normal. so then what what actually am I talking about when it comes to the topic of depression and discipleship well, Depression or clinically as it’s better known major depression is a lot more than just a low mood.

18. 10:23

    It’s an illness. So as we’ve said we all feel sad or Moody at times at some people experience those emotions very intensely and for long periods of time and often without any obvious reason for it. It’s very important for us to understand right at the outset that the brain is an organ of the body. The brain is the body rather is made up of all sorts of different organs.

19. 10:55

    The largest one in the most visible as the spin but there’s the heart the lungs the liver the intestine. They’re all different organs and the brain is an organ. It’s a very special organ of the body. We still don’t really understand how it works in many ways, but it is a physical part of us. And all organs of the body can develop illnesses and not function properly and the brain is no different to that the brain can experience an illness.

20. 11:33

    It can experience many illnesses just like any other organ of the body you can develop skin cancer. You can develop high blood pressure. You can develop chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or emphysema. All different organs of the body can have different illnesses. The brain is no different. What is very different about illnesses of the brain though is that if I was to fall down those stairs afterwards and break my leg. I would be able to use my brain to work out that well that that had happened.

21. 12:13

    I’m not going to drive home. I’m going to have to ring up and cancel appointments tomorrow. I’ll be able to talk to a doctor that looks after me and know exactly what sort of treatments going to be required in short. It’s my brain that helps me to cope with that sudden difficulty. If I suddenly developed bowel cancer, it’s my brain that helps me to cope with that. What makes mental illness so much more difficult is that as the organ of the body that we use to cope that has the problem that’s not working properly and that that really does make mental illness are far more difficult proposition to suffer and to help somebody with so that’s a really fundamental point that I’d like us all to remember. So if I’ve said that sadness is normal and major depression is abnormal.

22. 13:15

    How do we how do we differentiate because it’s actually very difficult because the symptoms are very similar but it is different firstly the severity of the low mood the sadness. One way that I used to determine whether somebody that I’m talking to is suffering from major depression is after 15 minutes of talking to that person. Am I feeling sad myself because someone with proper depression just emanates that that mood and and you get almost get sucked into it as well.

23. 13:57

    It’s really quite a significant thing. Clinically, we feel that someone has to have a depressed mood for at least two weeks solid to be considered to be potentially suffering from the illness of major depression. So yeah, we all have bad days that that’s normal. We you know, many of us might, you know, either figuratively or literally cry ourselves to sleep.

24. 14:25

    That doesn’t mean that we’ve got depression. But if you feel like that the assistant Lee for two weeks Then it’s certainly a possibility. And there are characteristic symptoms of depression that also are associated with the condition and we’re just going to run through those symptoms now to just to build up a clearer picture of what it is that depression is so obviously I’m markedly depressed mood Winston Churchill called it the black dog.

25. 15:00

    That is a really interesting way of describing. The the real darkness of the mood that someone with depression has so they completely lose all interest and enjoyment. So someone who previously has really enjoyed perhaps you are getting down into the shed and doing would work suddenly. It doesn’t interest them anymore. They just don’t get that same level of enjoyment or satisfaction from things that they used to there’s a significantly reduced self-esteem and self-confidence. Now we know that we are supposed to be meek we supposed to be gentle.

26. 15:44

    But it’s also in an innate part of us the way that God has created us that we do have a sense of self-worth that we’re not worthless. Someone with depression feels worthless. They often also feel very guilty over things that really they shouldn’t necessarily feel guilty about it all and are unable to be reassured that they will not respond to the normal. You know, that that’s okay.

27. 16:17

    You didn’t really mean that or yeah that it’s just again this this unnatural depth of emotions that we all experience and that again, it’s what it makes it. It makes it difficult. These are all things that we all experience. ins but someone with a mental illness of major depression experience these things in a very unnatural very not normal way and in a way that those of us who never have experienced depression find it really hard to understand or to relate to so there’s no very Bleak very pessimistic views of the future no light at the end of the tunnel. So to speak just a feeling of No Way Out This is where we start to get really serious.

28. 17:16

    I actually read yesterday. It was in the media that that suicide is the most common form of death in Australia in all people under the age of 44. seven a day in Australia That’s that’s horrible, isn’t it? We all we all know that breast cancer lung cancer can be fatal. We need to understand that major depression can also be fatal? If someone feels worthless.

29. 17:54

    If someone is wrapped with guilt if someone can see no, hope for the future. if someone hates themself Then it’s actually natural to think about not being around anymore. It’s a natural consequence of thinking abnormally like that when you’ve got an organ that’s working. Abnormally that has an illness. Sometimes physical pain can be easier to cope with than the type of mental anguish that someone with severe depression experiences.

30. 18:33

    So acts of self-harm are incredibly common particularly in younger people with depression. It’s not it’s not crazy. It’s what somebody does when they are suffering this type of an illness. It’s a symptom of the illness just like shortness of breath is a symptom of pneumonia. These feelings are symptoms of depression. Disturbed sleep is very common either difficulty falling off to sleep or something called early morning wakening someone with depression often wakes up at about three o’clock in the morning regularly and is unable to get back off to sleep and that in the right context is actually a fairly specific symptom of depression.

31. 19:22

    Disturbed appetite usually poor appetite occasionally overeating but that again is a very common symptom of this illness. A decreased libido and that’s certainly something that we don’t often talk about with each other. But again, it can have an extremely detrimental effect on somebody’s well-being and a very detrimental effect as far as a marriage relationship is concerned.

32. 19:53

    There’s a decrease energy decreased activity levels. Reduce concentration of that that is very common their ability to sit down and take things in can be severely compromised and a decrease in memory. Diana mood variation that’s a just a fancy way of saying that people with major depression usually feel much worse in the morning. So mornings tend to be the hardest time for somebody with significant depression.

33. 20:29

    Someone with severe depression can start to hallucinate or have delusions and that’s that’s what the word psychosis means someone who’s having psychotic symptoms either sees things or hears things that aren’t really there or they have a very fixed abnormal belief or a delusion. It’s also very necessary to remember that not everybody with depression will experience all of these symptoms. Some of them will be a lot more significant than others. Some of them might be there at all. I’d be individual variation as with all things to do with with our human existence.

34. 21:10

    No two of us are the same and that certainly applies for depression. Now other things can cause the same sort of symptoms and that that’s worth obviously bearing in mind. So an underactive thyroid gland can make you feel lethargic. It can affect your appetite your sleep. And so that’s a very important thing for our for a doctor to check in someone who’s presenting with symptoms of depression.

35. 21:44

    An infectious disease like glandular fever for example can present with many of those symptoms certain medications and certainly certain illicit drugs can also cause symptoms over a period of time very similar to what we see in depression.

36. 22:05

    Bereavement is certainly a situation that we all go through as as life goes on we tend to experience bereavement more often as our as our parents and then our friends and siblings start to pass away and bereavement can certainly cause incredibly intense feelings of sadness and grief, but that’s that’s normal. It’s a normal human emotion.

37. 22:39

    Bereavement can become abnormal we can go on too long. It can itself be a one of the causes of a depressive Illness but in itself, that’s a very normal thing. And there are other mental illnesses that can also present like depression schizophrenia is where psychotic symptoms are. Usually really quite prominent. It’s a disordered problem with with cognition or thinking Bipolar disorder is not is often associated with incredibly intense periods of depression, but also usually counterbalanced at other times of the person’s life with what’s called hyper Mania or or in it’s more severe form Mania where someone becomes the opposite of depressed.

38. 23:34

    They become incredibly confident sometimes little bit irritable, but very confident they can overspend they do things that they wouldn’t normally do they lack the usual constraints because again, their brain isn’t working properly the frontal lobe which normally keeps us where we’re supposed to be socially is no longer working as it should and someone bipolar disorder has this really very difficult interrelationship between depression and hypomania obsessive compulsive disorder is a very real Mental illness also someone suffering that illness often has compulsions to perform activities over and over again or they have obsessions and thoughts worries about their health or other factors that can become very distressing and very debilitating and because of that distress that person can present with depression depressed thoughts.

39. 24:41

    Anxiety disorders also are almost always associated with some depressive thoughts as most depressive illnesses have an aspect of anxiety associated with them, too. And a really important one to remember is dementia dementia and depression in an older person can be incredibly similar very very similar and one of the key things for a health worker to be aware of is the fact that an older person who appears to be presenting with dementia, May in fact be depressed.

40. 25:23

    Like last year, I saw a patient for the first time. He was in his early 80s. He was having significant problems with memory and and as such I did what we call a dementia screen various investigations got him back after that and it was that second visit that the the penny dropped a bit that a lot of his conversation was incredibly depressed. He was ruminating on An illness that his wife had and she actually got over that illness.

41. 25:56

    There was just something that suddenly struck me that this person may be depressed. We do something called a mini mental state test to diagnose dementia and this this chap scored 17 out of 30, which is really quite significantly abnormal. He accepted the the idea of going on to an antidepressant medication for weeks later.

42. 26:22

    He came back into my room scored 28 out of 30 and his wife said that she and her children felt that she had a husband and they had have bear father back. so that was a very clear example just in my experience in the last six months of someone who presented to all intents and purposes as having dementia, but who when treated for depression regained Wellness So how common is this condition depression quite remarkably, it’s estimated that between 20 and 25% of us will experience depression at some stage in our lives. It can occur at any age and approximately one in 20 of us will experience an episode of depression sufficient to significantly affect our ability to conduct our day-to-day lives. So that’s that’s common.

43. 27:23

    Isn’t it? Obviously very common. What causes it? I’ve said that this is a proper physical illness before you know, what do we know about what causes depression? I like and depression a little bit in this regard to diabetes diabetes is something that we all obviously except as being a proper physical illness. Someone with diabetes is more likely to have that because one or more of their parents or relatives have diabetes.

44. 27:56

    There’s a genetic aspect to diabetes. There are lifestyle aspects to diabetes. If someone is overweight, they’re more likely to develop type 2 diabetes if they don’t exercise similarly, so there are there are lifestyle factors. And there are also factors that we don’t really know about yet because there’s people with no family history that exercise. Well that are not overweight that still get diabetes and vice versa.

45. 28:26

    Depressions very much the same if you have friend, if you have family that has depression then your risk yourself of developing depression is certainly more significant. There are lifestyle factors. If you like that are also significant stressful life events. There are certain personalities of us that seemed to be a little bit more prone to developing depression.

46. 28:53

    If someone’s you know of a quieter nature if someone tends to be very particular about what they do tend to ruminate a lot that that personality style perhaps is more prone to developing. action severe other illness certain medications drugs and over use of alcohol also a risk factors for developing depression. So there are different factors as well that can go into the mix.

47. 29:27

    There are also aspects that we still don’t understand most of us would have heard the term a chemical imbalance used in the context of depression will have a brief look at that a little bit closer shortly, but the fact that there are Patients that can vary significantly assist in the treatment of depression.

48. 29:50

    There’s also a very good indicator that it is an organic illness a real physical illness and this this is one way of summing up I suppose what may cause depression. So the in the management of mental disorders volume one, that’s a few years old now, but it’s still I think a good summary despite the lack of clinical evidence about the exact causes of depression it Is reasonable to conclude that depression is a genetic and biological disorder that is affected by life stress and personality style.

49. 30:25

    So it’s multifactorial. That’s one way of putting it. So What treatments are available It’s amazing. How useful the simple Act of talking to somebody is to be able to to unburden is incredibly important and very very useful. Different forms of psychotherapy can be useful cognitive therapy is where somebody has helped to identify harmful ways that they are thinking and to correct that pattern of thought and behavioral therapy is looking at behaviors that might be contributing to the depressive illness just a just a quick differentiation between a psychologist and a psychiatrist a psychologist is someone who has a tertiary degree. In Psychology, obviously, they’re not doctors, but they have looked at the specific area of psychology, which is helping somebody to change the way that they’re thinking now, I think as a as an organization, that’s the wrong word. But as a as a faith, we as christadelphians I think have sometimes had problems with people that might change the way that we think Now, I think it’s actually really important that we get back then to that initial thought of that depression affecting an organ of the body.

50. 31:57

    These people are are trained to help with illnesses of a particular organ of the body. None of us worry about seeing a podiatrist to our feet. You know, we don’t tend to be concerned that we might come to some harm because we go to a podiatrist and I think it’s important that we also don’t feel that we’re going to come to any harm if we go to see a psychologist. Just because again, the brain is a part of the body just like the 40th.

51. 32:26

    A psychologist worth this with their ticket is not going to try and turn somebody away from the truth. If the truth provides a supportive nurturing environment for an individual a psychologist going to support that and and encourage any of this to maintain that Association. So suppose instead of being a little bit wary of psychologists. We need to be wary that.

52. 32:57

    We are providing a supportive nurturing environment and are not in fact part of the problem. So that that’s I think important. Psychologists differ from psychiatrists psychiatrists are medical doctors who have specialized in Psychiatry or disorders of the brain. So just like a surgeon is a doctor who specialized in surgery or an obstetrician is a doctor who specializes in obstetrics a psychiatrist is a doctor who specializes in mental illness. Something called mindfulness training that that can also be very useful and there are you know simple apps that you can get for for your tablet.

53. 33:39

    For example that can help to to calm somebody’s thinking and to assist in a very a very straightforward way. Really, although it’s a difficult process to master, but it also can be very useful medications is I said before can be extremely useful and there’s a whole whole raft of them there that can assist people quite significantly mild to moderate depression actually often doesn’t need medication supportive counseling and often cognitive behavior.

54. 34:16

    Therapy can be all that. Somebody needs moderate to severe depression and can be helped quite significantly with medication and the modern medication. So everything below below the first one don’t cause over sedation as a rule they are not addictive and and generally although not necessarily side-effect free with a little bit of educator trial and error. It’s always possible to find one that will actually be of assistance just a brief mention two of something which is wildly misunderstood in the general Community electroconvulsive therapy or ECT.

55. 35:00

    A PCT got a really really bad name back in the 30s and 40s when it was administered with no anesthetic and that’s just Dreadful these days. It’s administered under a full anesthetic. It’s just simply the passage of electrical current through the brain. It’s completely painless it can cause some memory issues that are usually short term. But it can be absolutely life-saving particularly for an older person with severe depression. Absolutely life-saving.

56. 35:34

    So if you hear of somebody needing ECT and I would be very surprised if most of us here over the age of 60 don’t know somebody who’s needed it. It’s certainly nothing to be fearful of It’s actually an incredibly useful rarely needed but doubly useful treatment for depression So the medication works by affecting three different up to three different neurotransmitters norepinephrine, which is how it’s spoken about in America at noradrenaline in Australia dopamine and serotonin. Now the common medications are serotonin reuptake Inhibitors what that means is that the serotonin is released from one nerve ending travels down and gets into a little receptor. And that’s how one nerve communicates with another so it releases a substance goes across a little Gap and lodges into a receptor.

57. 36:41

    We wonderfully and fearfully made how that makes us think we don’t know but it has to do with how we think. what the medications do is block off these little reuptake channels, which then means that there’s more serotonin in the Gap and we know that if we increase the amount of Serotonin between nerve cells neurons, We feel less depressed.

58. 37:14

    Why we don’t know but we know that that’s what happens and that’s that’s how these medications quite simply work and they do work that that gentleman that I mentioned a little while ago whose mini-mental state test went from severely abnormal to normal in a month. And that’s that’s not unusual. If someone has proper depression and they need these medications they do they do work.

59. 37:45

    So just summing up this sort of first half of the talk if you like depression is an illness. It’s not a character defect. It’s not a weakness. I’d love I’d love to be able to put into the collection bag next Sunday a dollar for every time one of my patients has said to me I can’t have depression because I am stronger than that. Whether we’re strong or weak has got nothing to do as to whether we get depressed or not.

60. 38:16

    Nothing at all. None of us say we can’t possibly have high blood pressure because I’m stronger than that wouldn’t dream of saying that but for some reason with mental illness we we there’s a stigma and and we deal with it differently and we really shouldn’t so it’s a proper illness. Importantly recovery is the rule someone severely depressed won’t believe that they won’t be able to see that but that’s true.

61. 38:45

    It is far more common to recover than not to there’s a range of treatments goal of the treatment is to get well and to stay well. There is though quite a high rate of relapse. If someone’s had one bad of depression. There’s at least a 50% chance that they will have another one at some point in their lives. So that that’s important to remember and so it’s really important to be able to pick up the early warnings of a relapse and get onto treatment again quickly. now Is there a depression in the Bible?

62. 39:22

    Okay. Well the word depression actually doesn’t doesn’t occur. Although brother. Jason got clothes in his introduction. But again that’s actually normal better normal depression. It’s not not an illness. Now Mana rager isn’t mentioned in the Bible. But a woman with a horrible issue of blood is congestive cardiac failure is not mentioned in the bible, but dropsy is Depression is not mentioned in the bible, but it is there. Turn with me to First of Kings chapter 19 and verse 4. So first of Kings 19, we’re dealing with dealing with Elijah and Elijah had to deal with an awful lot. He had to deal with Jezebel and Ahab. And we pick the record up in verse two then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah saying so let the gods do to me and more. Also if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by tomorrow about this time.

63. 40:48

    And when Elijah saw that he arose and went for his life and came to be a Shiba which belong with to Judah and left his servant there. But he himself went a Day’s Journey Into the Wilderness and came and sat down under a juniper tree and he requested for himself that he might die and said it is enough now o Yahweh.

64. 41:13

    Take away my life for I am not better than my father’s and as he lay and slept under a juniper tree behold then an angel touched him and said unto him arise and eat.

65. 41:27

    Elijah here is depressed. He wants to die. His lost motivation is lying under a tree. Is not eating the angel has to force him to eat. Elijah here is suffering a depressive illness. Unfortunately through the ministration of God through his angels. He was able to recover from then but there’s no doubt at all that that is a description of someone suffering from depression. Those of us who were privileged enough to be able to be up at Glen like a couple of weeks ago heard our brother Carl talked about King Saul he and in first of Samuel 16 and first 2 Samuel 18, which we won’t turn to there are there are descriptions of solve are being afflicted by an evil spirit brother. Carl actually used the word Melancholia, which is an older term for Depression in describing this illness that’s all experienced which David’s playing on a heart help to help to mitigate.

66. 42:40

    So again, someone suffering a mental illness in the scriptures obviously not called that because people didn’t use those terms in those days. There’s no evidence to suggest that David himself ever suffered from a mental illness called that we call now depression, but certainly in the writings in the Psalms. David is able to express feelings that any of us who have had depression would be very very familiar with in Psalm 13 how long Yahweh Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me how long must I wrestle with my thoughts and day after day have sorrow in my heart. And again in Psalm 69 Save Me O God for the waters have come up to my neck.

67. 43:38

    I sink in the Miry depths where there is no foothold. I’ve come into the deep Waters the floods. Engulf me. I’m worn out calling for help. My throat is parched my eyes fail. Looking my God. So, is there a depression in the Bible? Yes. Yes, there is because it’s part of the human condition and The Human Condition has not changed in the last three four thousand years. So where does that leave us that the topic tonight was depression and discipleship.

68. 44:18

    So in order to be effective Disciples of Our Lord? Where does that place Us in relation to this condition and we’re just singled out depression properly tonight. But I mean obviously there are other illnesses that can be equally as disastrous equally as difficult and equally is disruptive to our decide our Walkers Disciples of Our Lord.

69. 44:46

    So something that can be and certainly historically has made it very difficult for us to deal with this problem within the Brotherhood is that there can be a perception that we should be always Joyful We should be secure in the grace of God through Jesus Christ. So therefore we should not be depressed or anxious. And if we get like that, well then if we pray and read the Bible then that is all we need to do and everything will be fine. if one of us tonight suffered a heart attack I’m sure the rest of us would all call an ambulance. Okay, and that’s how we need to look at major depression. It’s no different.

70. 45:38

    All right. So we need to remember that we are dealing in this subject with an illness not the normal emotion of sadness that we all experience the illness of major depression. And so therefore we need when we read these verses and I will read a read a few verses off the screen in a moment. They are wonderfully beautifully uplifting versus for us who are well So if we are well, these are wonderful verses that should Lift us out of our normal sadness. So if we have had a tough day and if we’re just feeling lousy and flat then these following verses are a wonderful God given help to us.

71. 46:28

    If we are suffering from major depression. We have to try and understand that these verses are actually very difficult. They actually make you feel guilty. They make you feel worthless because you don’t feel what these verses are saying. Okay, so as we read these verses just remember if you are well these verses are wonderful if these verses if we are not well these verses are actually the same verses very hard.

72. 47:02

    Blessed is every one that feareth Yahweh that walketh in his ways that thou shalt eat. The Labour of thine hands happy shalt thou be and it shall be well with thee.

73. 47:17

    He that handle of the metal wisely shall find good and whoso trusteth in Yahweh happy is he? Many Sorrows shall be to the wicked. But he that trusteth in your way Mercy shall Compass him about be glad in Yahweh and rejoice you righteous and Shout for Joy all ye that are upright in heart.

74. 47:47

    So what if you what if you can’t shout for Joy does that mean you’re not up right? If you’re not happy does that mean you’re not faithful? These are inspired words of our heavenly father. I’m not questioning them for a moment. But they’re written for people who are well. They’re written to lift people up who are able to. Okay, they are written to describe our total existence as Sons and Daughters of God and the wonderful hope that we have. our Lord Jesus Christ cried he knew what it was like to be sad. He certainly wasn’t happy all the time. So these verses need to be seen in their totality. We need to remember to that someone who is unable for a period of their life not for not for their entire life, but for a period of their life that they’re suffering and illness are unable to be happy find verses like that really really hard.

75. 49:07

    The symptoms of mental illness can then seriously affect how we can outwardly express our faith. So if we are suffering an illness, we don’t have any motivation then it’s very hard to be able to attend a collegial activities. It’s very hard to even read the Bible. If a concentration is shot then again, it makes reading the Bible very difficult make spraying difficult and it certainly makes sitting in a meeting listening to a talk almost impossible to do with any sort of normality.

76. 49:45

    And if we’re feeling incredibly guilty. If we read those verses that we’ve just read together and feel guilty and we feel worthless. Then it can seriously reacts as far as how we deal with sin and forgiveness how if you feel that you’re worthless? How could God possibly want to forgive me? So this is a this is a dreadful illness because it’s an illness that makes us call into question our primary position before God and our ability to respond to his message of Grace.

77. 50:27

    So it’s something that I think we underestimate enormously unless we’ve been there ourselves and someone with depression doesn’t have a great big sort of Mark on their face, you know, they’re not limping necessarily. There’s nothing outward to be able to you know to have sympathy for people with depression are battling this on the inside. So it’s really important that we understand this as best as we can the instead of telling somebody how bad they are because they hadn’t been to the meeting for a while. We actually can deceive that where appropriate not everybody that doesn’t attend the meetings obviously has depression. But if someone has depression then what they need is support and encouragement gently rather than blaming them for at the outward appearance which judging outwardly rather than the Inner Man.

78. 51:25

    Okay, so and again just simply we don’t blame somebody with glandular fever for being tired. So therefore we shouldn’t either blame a brother and sister with depression for having poor motivation or concentration. We do though as brothers and sisters of our Lord Jesus Christ have a wonderful wonderful benefit. Well beyond somebody who has not got the surety of faith that we have.

79. 52:00

    We do have a high priest. We have somebody who can provide intercession for us, even when we’re at our weakest and lowest ebb. Our Lord Jesus Christ is a wonderful anchor for our souls literally. Isaiah 53 is despised and rejected of men a Man of Sorrows and acquainted with grief and we hid as it were our faces from him. He was despised and we esteemed him not surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows yet. We did esteem him stricken smitten of God and afflicted. We have a high priest who who can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities.

80. 52:54

    He was tempted in all points. Like as we are yet without sin so we can come boldly unto the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find Grace to help in time of need.

81. 53:10

    The Lord said come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and lowly in heart and you will find rest for your souls for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

82. 53:32

    Hear My Cry Oh God attend to my prayer from the ends of the Earth. I will cry to you when my heart is overwhelmed lead me to the rock that is higher than I if you have been a shelter for me a strong tower from the enemy. I will abide in your Tabernacle forever.

83. 53:51

    I will trust in the shelter of your wings. Beautiful beautiful words brothers and sisters and and something that we have that so many in this world do not and know nothing about and it’s a Priceless gift that we’ve been given. And again finally be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and Minds through Christ Jesus.

84. 54:31

    So with that Armory of support what can be done then for someone or by someone with depression firstly it’s important to accept that there’s a problem to accept help someone with depression experiences the same stigma against themselves that the wider Community can express against mental illness. So you have to be extraordinarily Brave to be able to admit that you’re suffering from a mental illness.

85. 55:01

    Because of this inbuilt stigma for whatever reason against mental illness as distinct from other illnesses. Trying to reduce stress and anxiety. It’s important through simple techniques trying to get enough sleep. That’s how the brain heals itself it maintains itself in sleep. And so getting enough sleep is vitally important keeping active exercise is a hugely beneficial thing for stress and depression.

86. 55:32

    It’s it makes a big difference in someone’s feelings of well-being. Alcohol is a depressant pure and simple. It depresses the brain. That’s why you eventually fall asleep. If you keep drinking it’s a depressant and so if someone is experiencing depression alcohol is not a good combination. how to help somebody that has depression very very importantly obviously is to pray for help and for guidance that’s always absolutely vital for the disciple again to be aware to accept which can be very difficult much easier to try and play things down deny that it’s happening in a loved one or potentially even to feel guilt that it’s occurring or anger anything that And in fact, I saw it today in my Consulting room her father react in Anger at the realization that his son was severely compromised by anxiety and depression anything that frightens us unfortunately can result in a knee-jerk response of anger. Just need to be so careful against that just let them talk. Listen, you don’t have to fix their problem. None of us think that we have to fix somebody’s diabetes. We don’t have to fix depression either but just listening is just so important.

87. 57:06

    Avoid dwelling on the negatives as best as possible. Try to gently encourage a more positive way of looking at things. Spending time spending time. So even even Eeyore and she enjoys somebody spending time with them and that physical contact is really important.

88. 57:30

    Recognize that it’s going to be very hard for somebody with depression to make decisions. So leave those as best as possible for when they’re feeling better encourage gradual increase in activity. Someone severely depressed finds it hard to get out of bed in the morning. Let alone go out for a walk. Let alone come into an occlusal environment. It’s very very difficult, but gentle encouragement is it’s very important.

89. 57:58

    If you’re very close to the person with depression, if you’re living with them, it can be incredibly draining and tiring and stressful. So it’s also important to give yourself permission to have time for yourself to look after yourself. And as we’ve made it mentioned a couple of times already. It’s incredibly appropriate that a person with a mental illness gets medical help just like any other illness and that’s that’s really important.

90. 58:30

    Some excellent online resources, which I thoroughly recommend both Beyond Blue Dot org dot a you and black dog institute.org dot a you very very good form sources of information and and assistance. And again first and last pray for help and guidance. Heavenly father is an enormous source of strength to us, which we must not let us not forget ever. So finally if you turn with me to the reading that we had earlier this evening so Isaiah 35. Brother Dez before the meeting started intimated that when he used to listen to Medical talks it often Come Away thinking he was suffering from whatever the talk was about. I’d certainly like to hope that tonight you’re not going to leave here depressed and a chapter like Isaiah 35 I think is a is a really lovely way for us to finish. It’s very hard for us to put ourselves in other people’s shoes.

91. 59:49

    That applies as much to passages of scripture. I think as it does to our interactions with one another the prophet Isaiah with the prophet Micah was prophesying at a time in judah’s history where the Assyrians had completely overrun and taken their neighboring Northern neighbors the the Kingdom of Israel. The Syrian Army at the time that he would have written chapter 35 on the basis that it follows directly in front of chapter 36 was written at a time.

92. 1:00:26

    When the Assyrian army had come down into the central and southern portion of Judah had taken all of the Fortified cities of Judah including lakish the main fortified City apart from Jerusalem. There’s a there’s actually The Siege works are still visible in lakish. There are freezes in the British Museum of the syrians taking away the citizens of lakish into captivity.

93. 1:00:56

    So Jerusalem was completely isolated and surrounded by the Sea by this fairly barbaric power of the Assyrians. And so if anyone had reason to feel sad and to question them, It was certainly Isaiah and his contemporaries in Jerusalem at the time that this chapter was written but through the Providence of God through the through prophecies given to him through the the spirit of God as I was able to write these words in verse 3 strengthen you either weak hands and confirm the feeble knees say to them that are of a fearful heart be strong. Fear not behold your God will come with vengeance even god with a recompense.

94. 1:01:49

    He will come and save you. this five Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. So they blind people will see deaf people will be able to hear the six someone who’s completely unable to walk will be able to LEAP like a heart someone unable to say a word will be able to sing. Down in verse 10 those who have sorrow and sighing will obtain joy and gladness.

95. 1:02:36

    At that time in verse 10 when the ransomed of Yahweh shall return and come to Zion with songs and everlasting Joy upon their heads. May that time brothers and sisters of joy and gladness when sorrow and sighing will have completely flown away be very soon at hand even so come Lord Jesus. Thank you for listening to the good Christian talks podcast, Please Subscribe for new episodes and leave a review and apple podcast or whatever service you are listening from To help people find the show when they search for it. If you enjoyed this talk share it on social media. So other people can find it to for show notes and links to the talk that you just listen to visit our show page at anchor dot f m / G CT We want to encourage everyone to share their thoughts from the talk this week on Facebook or Instagram where we are at good christadelphians talks or on Twitter where we are at GCT underscore podcast. If you know of a great talk, we want to know about it to send a suggestion to good Christie delphian talks at gmail.com or message us on any of our social media platforms. Thank you for listening.

96. 1:03:55

    God bless and talk to you next week.