026: John Pople - Job: Who is Satan?

Automatically transcribed. Accuracy is good but not perfect, and words are sometimes wrong. Trust the audio over the text.

1. 0:13

   Welcome to the good Crystal Key and talks podcast. I’m Levi. And I’m Chris. Thank you so much for joining us this week. On this podcast. We select one taco week to help each one of us. Get the Bible in our daily news feed. We post at the start of each week for you to listen. With a short intro beforehand to kind of set the stage for the talk, you’re about to hear.

2. 0:33

   And now let’s hear more about this week’s talk. Our talk is taken from a series that was given by her brother John poeple on a series that he gave about Job. The specific classes class to from that Series, where he looks into the character of Satan in the story of job and who he believes that Satan represents, I won’t spoil who it is because it’s kind of the point of his of his talk he gets to about halfway through and then proceeds to lay out his case, as he goes on. If you haven’t heard brother John before he has a very strong speaking style, very thorough Bible study but uses it to draw conclusions.

3. 1:22

   A lot of his subjects, he sometimes can find interesting new interpretations on classes and topics. He pays really close attention to details that can help draw interesting things out. And and this classroom is series on job is no different. He looks really closely at the first couple chapters, and it’s a really interesting one to look at He also leaves a completely up to the interpretation of us as The Listener, whether to take what he’s figured out or discovered and make our own conclusion on it.

4. 1:53

   So it’s a really good example of a classic jump, opal style class. I really enjoyed it. It’s a really good introduction laying out the argument to who the character of Satan is in this story and how you can apply that to the rest of scripture. Also on a really exciting note before we get, To the class we officially crossed over the 10,000. Listen, Mark this week, it’s just amazing to see how many people have enjoyed this podcast. We get comments from people both locally and online about how much they’re appreciating it.

5. 2:29

   It’s also really interesting to see the global reach of the podcast about 4:30 listeners company, United States. But then, we have chunks from everywhere, from Australia, the UK, even South Africa. Spain, Italy, really all over the world, so it’s pretty amazing to see how many people are enjoying this. So if you have classes that you think other people would enjoy, especially if they’re from corners of the world that aren’t as readily online.

6. 3:00

   That is always appreciated. If you need help, trying to get that content to us, feel free to reach out. We have ways for you to upload files to us. So reach out to us and we can help you with that because we want to get as many amazing talks as All to share with everybody and any new content that people have is always appreciated. So with that, I’m going to turn it over now to our brother John poeple for his class on the story of job title, the subject, who is Satan good morning.

7. 3:31

   It’s going to be important, to figure out who Satan is obviously, hopefully that’s obvious. Because even though his name or the name, Satan only shows up in the first two chapters, even if that’s his only appearance in the story, and I don’t believe that it is. But even if it were, you can see that he’s clearly a key character to affecting the entire understanding of the book. And what’s happening?

8. 3:58

   It’s someone god barters with apparently it’s someone who clearly affects the outcome and the history and the effect of job. So we need to know Who this person is. And if you look into the literature, the extent of Christian literature, you’ll find just about every possible. Answer is is supported by someone or other? Is it God?

9. 4:19

   Is it an angel? Is it? A supernatural devil? If it is an angel is, an obedient Angel. Is it a disobedient Angel? Some of these suggestions don’t really figure in our community but they’re all there in the literature. Is it eliphaz bildad? And zophar is it a light Hue that strange enigmatic fourth character?

10. 4:37

    Is it? Of himself. Is it something else? And so, we’re going to spend some time to live. Made it perfectly clear. That I think it’s the heart of man that most obviously evidence is itself in the three friends. I think it’s worth worthwhile for me to at least show you the evidence by which I reached that decision. Then you can be enabled to make your own decision about whether that’s a good conclusion or whether you think I’ve followed a fault in logic or in reasoning and you can come to a different answer.

11. 5:09

    And I guess generally the more One suggestions that we find in our own Community is that Satan is either and obedient angel of God performing God’s will or else he is some form of human either are like you job or the three friends, in fact, just for interest sake, if you didn’t dodge me who in the room, which is would suppose, most naturally that Satan is probably an angel of the Lord. Yeah, good.

12. 5:40

    I thought that opinion would be there and who would suppose that Satan might be the three friends? Got an equal number and who would suppose that Satan would be a like you? Uh-huh, and or job? Interesting, so right away, we’ve got a diversity of opinion in this room and that’s good news because it means I’m not wasting your time. You you may still come to that conclusion at the end anyway, but it’s good that we can have these different opinions and meet together and actually consider. So let me show you the evidence.

13. 6:11

    All the evidence that I try to consider to consider the various options in the conclusion at which I arrived. First of all, let’s start off in a reasonably scientific manner. We won’t actually start off with a preconceived agenda will just assemble the Acts as they appear in the text. We don’t get a lot of information about Satan.

14. 6:29

    We have, I think only really for facts to notice objectively, number one, he presents himself before the Lord, that’s the scriptural. Phrase that’s used the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. And Satan also came among them. It’s our first fact, a second fact, he comes from the Earth. The Lord said, where have you come from? Satan answered from roaming through the Earth and going back and forth in it, okay?

15. 7:01

    Third fact, he knows who job is. It’s a pretty small fact but we may as well throw it in there, we have so little to work with we can’t afford to be picky here job’s flocks and herds are spread throughout the lands of Satan. So he’s aware of who job is and fourthly.

16. 7:17

    He is empowered by God, God, grants him Authority. The Lord said to Satan very well. Then everything Jobe has is in your hands. And somehow from these, this sparsity of facts, we’re going to have to assemble some sort of opinion because it is going to be critical to our understanding of the Book of Job to know who Satan is. Let’s look at that first fact presented before the Lord. Luckily is a scriptural phrase, a repeating phrase. And when we look up every single use, That phrase we find that is a phrase which is invariably refers to human beings invariably refers to mankind, I’ll show you just a couple of examples.

17. 8:02

    The Lord said to Moses human man, be ready in the morning and then come up on Mount Sinai, present yourself to me, they’re on the top of the mountain now. Regardless of what we know about whether or not you can appear in the presence of God in this sense, at least whatever is meant by this man can Appear presented before the Lord in this form.

18. 8:25

    Here’s another example from The Book of Leviticus the priest who pronounces the leper or the former leper. I should say, clean shall present both the one to be cleansed and his offerings before the Lord. So this man, this human man who has come to the priest is presented. Before the Lord, those are two Old Testament references, but that’s not to say that this this phrase doesn’t appear also in the New Testament.

19. 8:51

    And in Who can think of a new testament phrase? This phrase appearing. It actually we wrote an entire him about it in our hymn books. Not that that’s desperately important. Anyone familiar with anyone, That little sort of doxology or beatitude, that appears at the end of Jude. Now unto him, this is about Jesus. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding Joy, remember that?

20. 9:25

    That him very nice him so whether from the Old Testament or the new the phrase, if you are presented before the Lord, or you have come to present yourself before. Lord. It is a characteristic of human men and I have not chosen these in a biased or skewed form, ignoring the ones where angels are presented before the Lord, I have chosen these entirely honestly as a representation of the way that they are the phrases used by contrast the Angels it is said in this is Matthew chapter 18, which was only yesterday’s reading was it not the angels, in heaven, always see the face of my Father in Heaven.

21. 10:01

    They are said in some sense or another, to always Be in the presence of the almighty, father, whereas the men go in and out of the presence of God. So from that information alone, we would naturally conclude that Satan was a human man or men, but that’s not the only information we have to work with. So let’s start over from an entirely different perspective. First thing we should notice is that Satan is a generic term. I’m sure, you know this but it’s worth establishing this. That is to say there is no moral pejorative associated with the name.

22. 10:37

    Satan, that is to say in proper English so that I make sense. Satan doesn’t mean that you’re a bad person, believe it or not. It is a very innocent word. It’s simply means opponent, if you and I were to sit down and play chess together, I would be your Satan. And you would be my satyam.

23. 10:55

    So there is no moral perogative associated with that word necessarily. It’s simply means opponent and therefore we can find almighty God, himself, Angels, or humans can all wear this title in very different circumstances. Of course, Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census. And by comparing that with the parallel passage, we realize that that is actually God, who is acting in opposition? Into Israel.

24. 11:23

    At that time, simply their opponents, likewise the angel of the Lord, took his stand in the way as balaam’s Satan, and Balaam was riding on the S. He and his two servants with him. So there’s where an obedient angel of God is indeed wearing the name of Satan. And likewise humans are very well-known case from the New Testament. Jesus turned and said to Peter get behind me. Satan.

25. 11:47

    Okay, so it could be, it could be God, it could be Angels. It could be humans. This term alone does not allow us to discriminate between them so we don’t need to come to the conclusion. It’s humans from this term. Furthermore we know that God is the one who causes super natural Calamity and we also know that specifically within the case of the Book of Job, it was God who did everything?

26. 12:10

    Not anybody else? It makes this perfectly clear in a couple of places, I’ve chosen just one from the end of the book. Jobs friends, comforted and consoled job, over all the trouble, the Lord had brought upon him, so we’re not left in ambiguity. It was God who acted to afflict job. And there’s another passage a lot earlier in the book, which substantiates, that, and I’m out of range of this little guy.

27. 12:38

    In fact, it’s a principle. We know throughout scripture from Isaiah 45. I am the lord, and there is none else. I form the light and create Darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. So this is entirely in harmony with the broader picture of scripture that it is God who affected Afflicted. Joe and when God acts, he frequently acts through his angels.

28. 13:07

    And this is true when God sends acts of Salvation or equally true when he performs acts of Destruction in Acts of Salvation. Daniel records my God sent his Angel and he shut the mouths of the Lions. They have not hurt me. But contrariwise in Psalm 78, God Unleashed against them his hot anger, his Roth indignation and hostility a band of destroying Angels so whether God is making peace or creating Calamity he does.

29. 13:40

    So most frequently in biblical language through his angels and so our second conclusion is that Satan was an angel that’s unfortunate because that’s a contradiction of our first conclusion. What I’m trying to show from that is merely by taking different parts of the available evidence in their most natural interpretation. It is very likely. It is very possible to come to completely contrasting conclusions.

30. 14:04

    So it’s very reasonable. That we have a diversity of opinion our community, just because the data itself does not naturally Converge on a single answer. Nevertheless, if our studies in the Book of Job are going to move forward, we do need to find some sort of resolution between these apparently or these evidently contradictory opinions. And to do that, we will need to bring further information to bear.

31. 14:30

    So let’s take the trouble to do that. First thing to notice, it’s God’s Satan. It’s God’s opponent Satan in the Book of Job is not the opponent of job, read the text. It’s the opponent of God.

32. 14:48

    You can see that in chapter one. So in this case, Satan must necessarily be Wicked. It is not job. Who is opposed? Even though it is Joe, who is Afflicted? God makes a statement. Have you considered my servant job? There is none like him. He is blameless. And upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil, and someone or something says no sir, no sir, you God are wrong.

33. 15:18

    You have misunderstood that job is only good or appears good by reason of the blessings that he enjoys. That’s God who’s being opposed. So in this case, it must be a wicked thing. That is, that is forming Satan. So already, I fear that I have to conclude and I don’t want to try and impose my my wheels aggressively on you, but I feel that I must conclude. Even at this stage, we cannot be talking about Out of divine Angel.

34. 15:50

    We cannot be calling about a Divine angel that would contradict the Living. Lord. God, here’s another thought to consider the Lord said to Satan, where have you come from? Always interesting to listen to God, asking questions in scripture? Why is it peculiar that God is asking questions in scripture or anywhere? Because he knows.

35. 16:11

    So he knows the answer. So when God asks a question, he’s not soliciting, an answer for himself. At least, he’s doing one of two things and possibly both. He’s either saying, is a teacher, might in front of his students. You know, why don’t you tell the class, why you’ve shown up late? So it was wonderful when someone walks in just at that point. I always enjoy that bit but it was not to be whatever, right? He’s getting someone to confess or to make an explanation. For the rest of us to learn from or he’s making a statement, an actual pronouncement.

36. 16:46

    And there is a sense of pronouncement in the idea of where have you come from? The emphasis that God is making its a form of statement? Two says, you’re not with me, right? Think about it. If I rode up here in your car, for those of you who drove with you, I wouldn’t, when I got here, say well, where did you come from? Because you’d think your short-term memory, Worse than I had supposed, we travelled together but if I didn’t travel with you, I might say.

37. 17:17

    Where did you come from? You might suddenly appear and I’m not sure. And what I’m emphasizing is you and I were not in company, you’ve come from a different place. Think about how you do that metaphorically with ideas, someone suggests a really crazy idea and the metaphor you uses, say where did that come from?

38. 17:36

    And what you’re saying, is my thoughts and my ideas and my feelings can all be described here and then in left field, here’s that crazy idea from you. Where did that come from? That’s a phrase we come on. Use and so the Lord is making the same emphasis. Where did you come from?

39. 17:53

    What’s that about? That’s not part of my thinking. Notice how that happened in Eden, the Lord God Called to Adam, where are you? Adam The answer physically is 180 yards to the Northeast hiding behind a bush. God knows that bit. What he’s saying to Adam is has there been a divorce in our company?

40. 18:15

    There has hasn’t there, that’s what God is pronouncing and beginning to teach. And the same thing is coming here. The Lord said to Satan, where have you come from you? And not with me and the answer from roaming through the Earth and going back and forth in it? I’m from down. Here, says Satan.

41. 18:35

    And finally, a very convincing passage Angels do not slander. This is absolutely explicit. The reference doesn’t appear on the page, but it says 2. Peter 2 verse 11 down there and I’ll read it out Angels, do not bring slanderous accusations against righteous men. In the presence of the Lord. There can be no more useful verse in the entire Bible for trying to make a decision in this particular matter.

42. 19:03

    Angels, do not bring slanderous accusations and Joe has been slandered. You notice that Satan has said, you think that’s a good guy that’s not a good guy. That’s a very rich guy. That’s why he likes you. That’s why he turns up in your church and sings hymns to you because he’s got a lot of nice stuff.

43. 19:19

    You take that stuff away, you’ll see his real character. That’s a slander. Angels, do not bring slanderous accusations against righteous men in the presence of the Lord period. And I think that’s a very definitive verse in, helping us interpret what’s going on in the Book of Job. Furthermore, we could have taken a rather that’s are some necessary verses and details.

44. 19:42

    We could have taken A more big picture approach. It’s always nice to do this in scripture. See if there’s a template, see if there’s a kind of a characteristic pattern of interaction or whatever, some sort of characteristic pattern that pervade scripture that you can grab hold off because you now know what the template looks like. And then hold it over the Bisset, the the difficult bit of scripture that you’re trying to figure out and see if that helps you slot things into place where they should be and there is in scripture a character.

45. 20:15

    The interaction between God and Satan you might say, well just God destroys his enemies. Well, that’s that’s true. It’s a little more complex than that. Not much more complex. It is a very simple template but it has a few twists to it which give it a little character by which we can come to recognize other interactions in the same way. It has three parts to it.

46. 20:34

    Number one, God pronounces a truth. Number two, Satan opposes that truth and given that this means opponent Satan by definition opposes the truth that God has revealed and declares contrariwise. Of course, a lie. This is all fairly basic stuff. A nice addition to that often, this lie is an accusation against a righteous man that’s part of the characteristic template. I kind of not really a point in its own right because it’s part of the the statement Satan makes our kind of cool that B and then finally 3 this is important.

47. 21:14

    God rebukes Satan in God’s Own time and at the point of his own choosing he says enough it is time Satan for you to be rebuked. And this is the complete template that we see in the interaction between God and Satan. Let’s look at a couple of examples, from outside of the Book of Job, way away from the bit that we’re trying to figure out.

48. 21:34

    And then we’ve got the template set, let’s put it over the Book of Job and see how things drop out. So then or just look straight into the lens or you have all disappeared, please don’t leave your seats in Eden. You must not eat from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. For when you eat of it, you will surely die. That is a pronouncement from almighty God. It’s a truth.

49. 21:58

    And then the serpent produces a lie, you will not surely die. The serpent said and that is Satan. We know that that’s the origin of what the Bible is going to mean by Satan because the Bible Other side, you have to go to the last book of the Bible to get that that ancient serpent who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver and look at this. The way this is thrown in the accuser of our Brethren. So there is a slanderous accusation associated with the lie that Satan has created.

50. 22:28

    That’s interesting. That’s part of the template. And then, of course, it’s a complete, the template, the Lord God said to the serpent because you have done, this cursed, are you above all the livestock? And All the wild animals. So there’s the completed interaction first time through that, like, makes us feel comfortable about the template that we’ve got. Let’s take a second example now, we’re in the New Testament again, very simple interaction, very well-known, Peters rebuke from that time on Jesus began to explain that he must be killed. And on the third day, be raised to life and those were God’s words.

51. 23:03

    He told us that he said, I don’t I don’t chatter along about my own thoughts and feelings. He said I only speak What the Lord God gave me to speak tying in with what brother? John is saying. You saying I am the medium by which God’s words come to you. I am the mediator, the medium by which that transmission arrives in your ears.

52. 23:25

    These are God’s words and so unfortunately, Peter took him aside and please understand. I am puke, no evil motives whatsoever to Peter. In this instance, he is a far better Apostle of his law disciple of his Lord then I can never be Peter. Jesus aside and began to rebuke him. Never Lord. He said this shall never happen to you, it’s an untruth and unfortunately, it also necessarily forms an accusation because at the very least whether you like it or whether you don’t, it means that Peter is saying, at the very least to Jesus Gia, kind of getting blowing this out of proportion, aren’t you? You know what you mean?

53. 24:03

    You’re gonna be killed her. What do you think? I am nothing. I got a sword to be using it later. I’ll look after you you’re making, you’re making too much out of this, and of course it’s not. Jesus is not exaggerating, he’s not drowning in melodramatic self-pity. That’s the necessary though. Doubtless unintended accusation that Peter is bringing and so the template is completed, Jesus turned and said to Peter and doubtless, Without Anger, I believe get behind me Satan move out of the way.

54. 24:34

    You don’t want to be doing that. Okay and he uses the word. Satan I think deliberately to allow us an extra completed template from which to work, let’s look at. Whoa, let’s look at one more example, the slander of Jerusalem or the attack on Jerusalem. This is in the time of the Exile.

55. 24:52

    This is a pronouncement from the Lord. God, this time coming through, Cyrus the Persian the king, the Lord, the god of Heaven Cyrus is speaking. The Lord, the god of Heaven, has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem. In Judah, anyone of his people among you, let him go up and build the Temple of the Lord, the god of Israel. The God Who is in Jerusalem.

56. 25:15

    So you notice how Jerusalem is mentioned as the chosen city of God? It’s in a terrible mess at that particular time, but this is where God begins to pronounce his purpose of restoration of Jerusalem. Here Comes Satan, and to Satan when the enemies, when the opponents, when the Satan’s of Judah and Benjamin heard, the Exiles were building a temple for the Lord, the god of Israel.

57. 25:38

    They hired counselors to work against them and frustrate their plans. In particular, they sent a letter to the king whom the referred to as our tax Xerxes. That’s just a title. This is a copy of the letter, they sent him to King. Artaxerxes the Jews who came up to us, from you have gone to Jerusalem and are rebuilding that rebellious and wicked City. There’s the slander that’s put on Jerusalem. I don’t stop there.

58. 26:05

    They actually go out and physically attacked the builders to, you know, that from the from the writings of Nehemiah. When they got a trowel in one hand, to do the work and a bow and arrow in the other hand, literally, at the same I’m at all times because they’re trying to build a wall and they keep being physically attacked and have to shoot off their attackers. And to complete the template.

59. 26:22

    This is the commentary from the book of Zechariah at exactly the same time. The Lord said to Satan the Lord rebuke you Satan, the Lord who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you and it’s this mention of Jerusalem that allows us to tie with confidence these words in Zechariah upon. Whom Jude also comments to that same event, okay?

60. 26:42

    So those three examples of the template that’s enough, there’s more out there but that’s enough. I think now we’re ready to say. We know the template interaction between God Satan, let’s go off to the Book of Job and see if we lay this template on the text what is it going to teach us about exactly who’s who and what’s what?

61. 26:59

    Here’s the same interaction we expect God to pronounce the truth. Very good this happens. The Lord said to Satan, have you considered my servant job? There’s no one on earth, like him, he is blameless. And upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil And so Satan of course, by definition contradicts and opposes and to help us out at the beginning of the text, Satan goes by that name. Satan does job fear God for nothing. We’ve already said this, you saying he’s not truly a righteous man.

62. 27:34

    He’s only worshiping you because you’ve made him so rich. But what we’ve also learned from the template is that that lie, that opposing lie against the Declaration of God necessarily should and Must form an accusation against the righteous, man. We’ve seen that in each of the three examples who then forms accusations against the righteous man, because these lies will come from Satan.

63. 28:01

    Here they are. Is not your wickedness. Great says eliphaz. Oh, not your sins and less bildad’s is much the same. The lamp of the wicked is snuffed out. He has no Offspring or descendants amongst his people. That’s a nice thing to tell, someone who’s just had all their children killed. The Wicked Man. Doesn’t have any descendants, you know. Terrible thing to say what a horrible thing to say and so far, oh, how I wish God would speak that, he would open his lips against you.

64. 28:35

    Jobe know. This God has even forgotten some of your sin. Your sin is so large, God can’t even remember all of it. These are the accusations against the righteous, man, that support the opposition to God’s pronouncement. That job is righteous and blameless. There can be no doubt where they come from Satan is, I don’t want to make it these three humans in history and no one else. It is the spirit, the heart of natural man. Most clearly evidencing itself in the pronouncements of these three wicked men who are trying In fairness to them to be righteous man.

65. 29:14

    But have gone horribly and terribly. Misguided is not the definition of sin in Hebrew, something to miss the mark and my goodness, how badly. These three people have missed the mark. And then, of course, to complete the template, the template would be incomplete if Satan was defined any other way, because there’s only one person or only one group.

66. 29:35

    I should say that I rebuked within the story of Joe and to complete the same plate. God always rebuked Satan at whatever time he determines to be the end. And after the Lord had said things to job, he says to eliphaz. I am angry with you and your two friends you have not spoken of me.

67. 29:54

    What is right? As my servant job has When Joe will pray for you and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your Folly. And I think therefore understanding that broader template and then seeing that same interaction with, in the Book of Job allows us some confidence in attributing the character of Satan to the three friends themselves.

68. 30:16

    Okay? Then if that’s true. If that’s true. How does the Book of Job actually work? Let’s just rerun the storyline of jokes a very short story lines quite a large book with a very short story line. Let’s just recapitulate. The storyline of jobin our heads with that understanding and see if everything fits into place. So we start off eliphaz bildad and zophar going to and fro in the earth, become resentful of job’s wealth going to and fro in the earth.

69. 30:46

    Why would they be going to and fro in the earth? We haven’t got there. It because we’re going to do this tomorrow. But I really want to suggest to you that this whole time of job is during the time of Israel’s wandering in the wilderness. That’s exactly what Israel are doing. They are wondering for 40 years to and fro in figures of eight or whatsoever, pattern takes their fancy, they are wandering to and fro in the earth, there is a risk with travel. The more you travel, the more you see, if you’re tempted by the side of the eyes, the more you travel, the more you see, See, the more you’re tempted, the more you are likely to finally run into that one Vision in front of you. It says oh that’s hag.

70. 31:26

    I’d like that, that’s nice. And by going to and fro in the earth, they become resentful of job’s wealth. They know who he is, they see how far his land extends job is not one of the Israelites I’m going to try and show that tomorrow. He’s not one of the wandering tribe. He is a fixture in the land of us. He belongs there.

71. 31:45

    That’s his homeland. So they the three men accused job in their hearts while appearing before the Lord, where do they appear in the presence of the Lord? If my timing is right? We’re talking about the Tabernacle at the time that they go to the Tabernacle, Elder Wilderness to present their sacrifice and sing their praises and whatever they have that in their heart.

72. 32:07

    They’re still lurked. And ticked, by what they’ve seen this rich man? Who’s not one of them? No, child of Abraham. He and yet, he has a Homeland. Do we have a Homeland with a children of God and we’re tramping around. Desert. We don’t have a Homeland. He does with his flocks, and herds conniving, his faith hinges on his wealth.

73. 32:26

    That’s what they impute to Joe the opposition of their thoughts. And God’s is presented as a conversation. So I’m taking a metaphorical take to the conversation between God and Satan. In other words, God looks down and sees them and says, oh I see, I see what you’re thinking. I know what you’re thinking, you can barely concentrate on that him.

74. 32:46

    You’re singing. Can you? You just all filled. Old with bitterness about this rich man? Whose no part of your community, that’s really annoyed. You, I see what you’re doing. You think, you think that man follows me just because of his wealth, don’t you? I see that. I see that thought you think that if I took his wealth away he’d curse me to my face. Okay, I’m going to act on your in bitter jealousy. I’m going to empower it.

75. 33:14

    I’m going to give it the authority to do what it desires. Let’s make that happen. And we’ll see whether or not, you’re right. So God, empowers their jealousy and acts on it, we know it is God who acts to cause the afflictions to Joe, so the three friends, start to comfort Joe, I’m sure they’re genuinely horrified when they first see crash jobs, lost everything. Whoa, we know this guy be back around to his house and see if he’s still alive.

76. 33:42

    I’ve heard the whole family of been wiped out. Let’s see who’s left. But as time passes truth comes out, their underlying feelings, all emerge in the end and all three make false and very embittered accusations against the character of job. And then God, rebuke Satan. The three friends, righteous Jobe intercedes with them as a priest and righteous job is blessed.

77. 34:06

    So that is how that story recapitulates with the understanding we have so far. We have Oh, we have a some time remaining. That’s great. Because what I want to do now is spend some time made that presentation to you and I realize it these things require some digestion time whether you end up accepting them or rejecting them, either way, some digestion time is good and I want to sort of rush through all this, but let’s see if we can’t in all honesty and without wishing to defend any one point or another cone analyze, the potential weaknesses of this Theory as long as well as the potential strengths of this And be honest and try and consider anything.

78. 34:45

    And if I miss something that you think is principal, please come and tell me about it. I’ve always gained greatly from the feedback that I get of helping re guide and retune, my thoughts whilst I’m at bible school. Let’s look at the weaknesses first. What are the weaknesses of this interpretation? The idea that Satan is the heart of man.

79. 35:02

    Perhaps most commonly showing through these three friends at the moment. Well, first of all, there seems to be a contradiction that doesn’t that if the three friends really wanted job to fail, Was their consolation was the fact that they went round and sat with him seven days on the ground? What was that?

80. 35:19

    Some sort of fake, some sort of sham? I don’t think it is a fake and I don’t think it is a sham and it is a natural contradiction to what we’ve proposed. But are humans rational creatures, are we not entirely self contradictory? I don’t have any problem at all believing that their sympathy for job was absolutely genuine and that they couldn’t see that their own, embittered hatred of him which would probably gone away.

81. 35:47

    Briefly was what had really that got enacted on it but know that they ever could have seen that but it’s only through Time as they began to reason with job. Well, Joe, you know, I’m really sorry for you and everything, but you know why you lost your stuff, don’t you, you really are an evil man.

82. 36:01

    You shouldn’t you should recognize this. Never got, God will give it back so that I think it’s natural to have contradictions. We are not logical or rational creatures. If you imagine that we are, I can show you some road signs will absolutely blow your mind. Yeah. But that is a natural contradiction to the theory. We have additionally.

83. 36:20

    It requires the meetings between gods and And Satan which are often referred to in the literature. As Heavens Council meetings, the heavens Council meetings and Satan’s empowerment, become interpretive statements. But I don’t have a problem with that, particularly whoops, pressed the wrong button because the interchanges are not in heaven, to call these Heavens Council meetings.

84. 36:42

    As they so frequently are is very bad nomenclature. They don’t take place in heaven. They take place in the presence of the Lord. I understand why someone says, well that’s Heaven. No, it’s not. Look at the The presence of the Lord is where humans assemble to come with God, Focus thoughts before him, and that includes this room, because that’s why you’re here, you’re here, because you have a god focused life and you’re here to praise His name and in to spend your time and energies upon thinking about his word and his will. This is the presence of the Lord. This is one of those areas, one of, many around the world where that takes place, and that’s where these conversations take place.

85. 37:20

    We know, truly that, no, no, Satan can stand before God, anyway. A truly Wicked thing, cannot come into the presence of God. So clearly it’s some interpretive level that’s needed. So those are the weaknesses. I don’t see any others. Particularly now, let’s look at the strengths. The strength of this suggestion that Satan is the heart of man and three friends. First of all, it’s consistent with the rest of scripture. This the human heart is the opponent of God true on the on the most global scale and looking at scripture that is God’s one and only opponent.

86. 37:53

    It’s his only Satan the stuff that’s in here, and in there. That’s what opposes god. Let’s look at some scriptures, they’re very well-known, the very obvious, the first book of the Bible tells us this. The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become. And that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only Evil, all the time and within the constraints of the English language, it is not possible to maintain a proper English sentence and put anymore superlatives in it.

87. 38:22

    It is as heavily loaded as 10B. Every inclination. Only Evil all the time. Okay, we can go into the prophets, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, or in some translations desperately sick, who can know it, who can understand it. And even into the New Testament, what comes out of a man’s heart? Is what makes him unclean?

88. 38:51

    That’s what Jesus said. When the Pharisees mistakenly suppose at some other failure to perform rituals made a man. Claim for from within men’s hearts, come all these desperately evil things. They all come from inside. They make a man unclean or in opposition to God. Okay? So that’s our first point, it’s consistent with the rest of scripture.

89. 39:15

    Secondly, this is the point that I enjoy the most, just get to know. Satan, have a look at him in the Book of Job, and you’ll recognize him. Unfortunately, you’ll recognize him all too well. I Do look at his characteristics. Number one, he’s jealous, right? He’s jealous of job’s material wealth. That’s what drives all this.

90. 39:36

    Do we really suppose? That it was an angel, getting all irate and ticked off about the fact that job had a huge number of camels, right? It’s not very likely, Angels, don’t care how many camels you have humans. Do right. For chemical for Camel. These day read Ferrari or whatever, but it’s the same.

91. 39:57

    Right? Look at that all there. He is. Driving that car again. Your I thinks he’s a real business. Doesn’t need in that little vehicle. That’s a nice little number. It looks real flash. Is he really deserve that? I wonder why. In those days, it was camel but the same thing. Maybe joke has stripes on his camel to I don’t know, okay?

92. 40:14

    And it could be anything. Number two, here’s a second characteristic of Satan. He’s stupid, right? He tells God that he’s wrong. Is there really a species? So stupid on it? Do we think that could have been an angel? God says, look at this guy. He’s great. And there is someone so stupid to say, well, God, you know, you’re, you’re a pretty bright lad and all and nice job. You’ve done on this universe, you’ve met and B plus you know, whatever and yeah, you see a little something about job, don’t you?

93. 40:48

    But yeah, you see Guardian missing something. I see a little More than you. Do you see the outward appearance? Don’t you have jobs righteousness, but I, I see it all. Not only do I see jobs outward righteousness but I know why. I know what drives it. You’re a bit dumb God, sorry. You’ve missed the bigger picture.

94. 41:08

    Let me help you out, right? I don’t think I cannot conceive of a Divine, angel of God, taking that attitude. Can I conceive of a human being that stupid? I’ve met? One. All right you may have done too and not just me by the way, right? That’s one of the characteristics of Satan. He’s not the smartest.

95. 41:33

    This is a lovely one when he’s shown to be wrong. Instead of saying, okay, you win, he just shift the goalposts. I mean, didn’t it didn’t Satan’s a take away his toys and he will curse you. And God says, okay, fine there. Go the toys. Look. He’s still, blesses me. Hi able well, yeah, maybe but, but now I got a better one.

96. 41:50

    No, I’m not wrong yet. No, actually, it’s because you didn’t as yeah. I love just thought of something. You should have actually struck his flesh to then I’ll be right. You see? Who is it? That moves the goalposts when they’ve been shown. Wrong Angels. Do we know that from scripture? Is that something we’ve come to learn about angels? Is that something that brother Barry will be teaching us about angels that whenever they’re shown to be wrong? We move the goalposts.

97. 42:14

    Know we’ve met those people. They are here Among Us and alas. They are here in this room and even on this platform we shift the goalposts when we’re known to be wrong because we don’t want to look to be wrong. And when something doesn’t work out, the way we predicted that, it would we find some reason to Justify that and say, oh, there was a missing element that I didn’t tell you about before, but if you did that, then I’d be right. That’s us.

98. 42:38

    And finally, Satan’s Delight, is the downfall of a righteous man, I find it impossible to conceive. That an angel of the Divine host takes any Delight whatsoever in the downfall of a righteous, man. That’s us, isn’t it? Don’t we all celebrate it, particularly even even in his a challenging thing. Even when we’re looking outside of our community, let’s say we’re looking at a television evangelist and suddenly he’s exposed having committed some terrible sin.

99. 43:12

    And don’t we Rejoice, ha ha. I thought so e. That’s us, isn’t it? I don’t think we should be doing that. Not every failure is a hypocrite, very difficult to tell the difference between a failure and hypocrites because the external behavior of the to is exactly the same unless we can see the heart.

100. 43:31

     We can never tell the one from the other. We should impute the best motives that we’re looking at failures and not Hypocrites except in the case of the one human heart that we really do know about then we can judge Satan’s Delight. Is the downfall of a righteous man considering then all of Satan’s.

101. 43:49

     Any characteristics. One, two, three. Four of them here. I think we have very little doubt in identifying him as a human. It’s also consistent with what is known between angels and Men. What does that mean? No idea what that means. I’ll rewrite that. Oh, right. Okay, we looked at that passage earlier. Divine Angels, do not commit slander Angels, although they are stronger and more powerful than men do.

102. 44:15

     Not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. It means that the origin of Satan going to and fro in the Earth has a very natural interpretation. We learn from the book of James James, that’s where Temptation comes from. The more you see in front of your eyes, that’s what drives your Temptations. What you see?

103. 44:36

     So you go to and fro in the earth and you see more and more. That’s humans that do that. That’s ask that. Does that? And finally Satan is actually to blame Right. That’s something that Joe The Book of Job makes clear Satan is to blame for this mess was a Divine Angel to blame now. No, it is the human heart that is to blame for the manifold, evils and disasters, and Associated pain that we see in this otherwise wonderful world around us. Here’s an interesting concept that I find very difficult to articulate.

104. 45:09

     So work with me here because I’m probably going to make a mess of explaining this. But what I want to try and point out is that only with this interpretation of Satan Being Human and specifically, the three friends, does the apparent barter between God and Satan. Make any sense because without it, the barter, in the early chapters of job becomes like Greek myth. What I mean by that is if you know much Greek mythology. The gods, the Greek gods, these characters that are invented in stories a heartless, right?

105. 45:42

     You know, to Greek gods will sit around and say hmmm. I’ve been if you smack him in the head he’ll fall over and said, okay, I’ll bet you. I finally watched it could ding. Oh, you were right or I’ll pay them? Well, I bet you if you break his back, his wife will catch your eye. Watch.

106. 45:56

     No, she didn’t know you win that one, too. This is how the Greek stories. Look at them, the guards toy with men. They treat them just like playthings for their amusement and they torture them and reward them and lift them up and throw them down. Just for fun is that Israel’s God? Is that your guard set mine? Because that is who our God is.

107. 46:19

     If Satan is anything other than this, why would God into the Baza? Hey, why don’t you mess around with him and see what happens? Why would God do that? God is Not capricious. The Greek gods certainly are those stories but our God, the true God. The one God is Not capricious and not only is he not capricious. It is not his desire that any should perish and so only then can we see that the battery is actually key to God, convicting eliphaz bildad and zophar and through their conviction, saving them.

108. 46:52

     Right. God, enters the battle with Satan in order to save him. It’s an act of Salvation. And by being an act of Salvation, you do understand why, our God would get involved without it being an act of Salvation. Without this being Satan who saved, why would God mess around in any of this way.

109. 47:11

     This is a capricious act, otherwise, unless Satan is saved by the book. Barter it serves no purpose of Salvation. Joe was already righteous, that’s not to say Joe. And changed by The Experience because he is and God would not have had any part of it. I suggest you I don’t do a good job of.

110. 47:30

     I know it’s hard to articulate that thought both. I think it very clearly and speak it very unclearly. So hopefully you can kind of untangle the mess of the words. And so this is our last slide for today. What are the implications? If we find that theory acceptable, what are the implications of Satan being the heart of man for our ongoing studies in job?

111. 47:49

     I find three first of all, satan does not. Disappear from the text. That’s just the point of Interest, more than anything else. It means he’s there all the way through the whole book. Has a righteous man in it, and it’s got Satan in it. It’s that conflict. It becomes a very, very different book. Now, if Satan just shows up in Chapter 2 and then goes off for a cappuccino, never comes back.

112. 48:10

     Why on Earth? Do we have 20 chapters of Jobe? Bickering with three other guys? What’s the point? All right, it means the core of the book. That’s the point. I just said, actually Joe versus his three friends or amidst his three friends become Highly relevant to our study of the Book of Job and most importantly of all the core of the book. It disappears off the bottom, I’m sorry. The core of the book is now highly relevant to my life. Why?

113. 48:35

     Because jobs experience, as recorded in the Book of Job is now the same as mine. No, I haven’t lost all my children. I haven’t been Afflicted in the way Joe was, but I do spend every single day wrestling with Satan. This Satan, it’s the Same Satan that Joe Brussels with. I can get up at 6:00 in the morning and by 06:01 at the latest the battle is once again in joined and he’s up and he’s awake and he’s suggesting all sorts of very desirable things. To me, none of which are in accord with my father’s will Satan enters and he is a very permanent presence in my life and I suggest to you, he is a very permanent presence in the Book of Job and that’s what makes this. A wonderful and beautiful book.

114. 49:33

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115. 50:03

     Hawks or on Twitter where we are at GCT underscore podcast. If you knew of a great talk we want to know about it to send us. Suggestion to good christadelphians Hawks at gmail.com or message us on any of our social media platforms. Thank you for listening. God bless and talk to you next week.